I need Bryan to read this, re: Club World. I can't PM

[ksech]

I agree with everything you are saying Nifty, but in this singular incident CWC NEEDS to step in and do the right thing. They NEED to address the issues at hand and close his accounts. No more free chips, no more emails offering incentives to try to lure him back, nothing except to acknowledge his accounts have been and will remain closed.

As the adage goes..."Where there's a will, there's a way" Since Steve has posted primarily about Club World, every other online casino in the cyber comunity which he has frequented is moot. HE needs to make the next step on his own concerning the other places.

 

[skiny]

I know all about addicts, and you're right. They also have a need to blame everyone else but themselves, to make it OK (in their mind) to keep playing because it isn't "their fault".

Well, you can chastise the player all day long if you like but just because a known alcoholic wanders back into a bar it's not okay to serve him. If a prescription drug addict decides to step up to the counter it's not ok to refill his prescriptions. If a sex addict decides to hike up her skirt.... actually that one's probably ok but the point is after the second email was sent somebody received it and I'm assuming somebody read it. It said quite plainly that the player was a problem gambler and the account remained open at least until today. Hopefully it will be closed by tomorrow but there is no reason for stalling when a problem gambler asks to have his account locked. If it was an oversight on the casino support's fault then it was at the very least irresponsible. If it was a ploy to get the player to change his mind then it was simply reprehensible.

I also apologize for my rude statement about you not reading my posts. It was childish.

Don't sweat it. I give my share of jabs. I can take them too.

Fair enough, but all he had to say in his initial email was "I am a compulsive gambler and I no longer wish to gambling online anywhere. Please close my accounts immediately". If he did, and they offered him chips, then string them up by the apricots, but that email was quite wishy-washy coming from someone who seriously wanted to stop and have their accounts closed.

I agree but the second one was quite plain and should have been addressed immediately.

He could also have ignored the free chip offer and replied with "I do not want to play at all. Period. Please close all my account immediately and I do not wish to discuss the matter further"

If addicts could ignore temptation they wouldn't be addicts, would they? If gambling hadn't become a compulsive behaviour there would have been no reason for him to stop in the first place.

I think you'll find that management will be disappointed that the issue went this far, and the CSR involved will be (or should be) counseled and better educated. In fact, and email that mentions anything relating to gambling problems or account closure should be sent to the floor manager or higher and should not be dealt with by frontline CS.

I agree 100% and I KNOW management will be disappointed since this is wide open for everyone to see. A casino that apparently prides itself on responsible gambling shouldn't be waiting until after an admitted addict is able to log in and play to educate or counsel their support workers. Educate the reps then follow procedures THEN pride yourself on being responsible.

I do not agree that they should have their accreditation removed based on an "act" that features no malice or deliberate intent. If they do not respond appropriately and make undertakings to improve their processes immediately, then that's a different story.

I don't ask or suggest that any casino be accredited or not. I've long since gave my opinions on that. All I'm saying is that this casino, on this issue has acted and is acting completely irresponsible and needs to change that immediately.

 

[LHofsdal]

I see what you are saying Nifty, but in his very first e-mail he did ask for his account to be closed. He really shouldn't have to give a reason.When he asked for his account to be closed, it should have been closed.

Then in his following email he did state he had problem and they still didn't close it. That is being negligent.

I have to wonder though if Tom, the Clubworld rep, has even seen this thread, because if he did I would think he would have closed his account immediately. Although it really isn't up to Tom, the casino management should have already done it.

Clubworld needs to close his account ASAP, as he requested. No matter what reasons were given he specifically asked for his account to be closed more than once and it still has not been closed. The use of free chips really has nothing to do with "confusing" the casino. When they received the e-mail stating he had a gambling problem, that account should have been closed for good without exception and without the possibility to return. And it needs to be done NOW.

LH

 

[chuchu59]

I see what you are saying Nifty, but in his very first e-mail he did ask for his account to be closed. He really shouldn't have to give a reason.When he asked for his account to be closed, they should have been closed.

Then in his following email he did state he had problem and they still didn't close it. That is being negligent.

I have to wonder though if Tom, the Clubworld rep, has even seen this thread, because if he did I would think he would have closed his account immediately. Although it really isn't up to Tom, the casino management should have already done it.

Clubworld needs to close his account ASAP, as he requested. No matter what reasons were given he specifically asked for his account to be closed more than once and it still has not been closed. The use of free chips really has nothing to do with "confusing" the casino. When they received the e-mail stating he had a gambling problem, that account should have been closed for good with exception and without the possibility to return. And it needs to be done NOW.

LH

Lori,

While the CS staff in question did ask for a reason it was not deemed to be a prerequisite for the closure as it was specifically stated that they wanted feedback to serve customers better and thus their request for a reason. However, they have been told at least 3 times to close the account and its still not done to date I believe so on that score they are hopeless. This group doesnt surprise me though as I have seen many instances where they do not follow-up on issues. More than a year ago, despite telling them I had verified accounts at other CW casinos, they kept reversing my cashouts at All Star Slots and I had to pm Tom to get things sorted out. Then there was the student saga (Your baby Pina) and they failed to include a checkbox into the registration form which could have prevented confusion even up to a year in arrears. They had recurrent processing issues for USA players but did nothing to soothe their agony of waiting weeks for their money. These problems can be overcome if they just did a bit of follow-up but they didnt. Same as in TTM's case.

Ah, maybe Bryan could consider doing what the rating agencies do ie put CW on probation for a possible downgrade from Accredited to Good to Go or is that really a downgrade.

 

[slotplayer]

Hi all. I deleted all my PMs because it kept telling me my stored PMs were over limit and I tried to PM all this to Bryan, but I couldn't send a damn PM, even with my box empty! I have emails to support my case that I have requested the logs, as well as requested account closure. I will wait for Bryan to give me an email address to forward them to.

Please understand, I could give a damn about my relationship with this group, either now, or in the future, or any online casino, for that matter. I just felt CM and others should know about this behavior. Nothing to gain here personally.

Here is the body of the email I sent to them on 2/22/2012:
sent to [email protected]

"Hi there,

My username is xxxxxxxxx at clubworld casino and I have other accounts though your other casino group. I have determined that I need to take a break from gaming online and would like you to close all accounts registered to my email address.

Please confirm.
Thanks,
Stephen XXXXXXXXXX"

Here is the response:

"Hello Stephen,



I’m sorry to read that you wish to close your account with us. As part of our commitment to providing our players with the best online experience possible, could you please provide us with some feedback as to the reason for closing your account. To thank you for your time in replying back to us I have added a free chip bonus to your account (10x playthrough, 10x Max Cash Out, excluded games; Baccarat, Bingo, Craps, Poker, Roulette and Sic Bo.)



Kindest regards



Dawson

Club World Casinos"

I've worded them similar to that and received the same response. Then I just started to state it upfront in one email to all the RTG's I closed. CWC, Sloto, Mainstreet.

"I don't want the free chip" and the reason is "it was getting too expensive".

 

[Jasminebed]

I gave CW a bit of "pass" on the first email, although they should have honoured his request for closure.

The second email is very explicit, and should have been acted upon immediately.

We all know that casinos can lock down accounts instantly, even if the player is playing.

takethemoney is apt to find that even if he does win prior to closure, only his deposit will be returned because of his admission of gambling addiction.

As for the freechip, it's not like stealing your beer while your back is turned, it was given to him.

 

[skiny]

takethemoney is apt to find that even if he does win prior to closure, only his deposit will be returned because of his admission of gambling addiction.

I hadn't even thought of that. In fact it's possible that any casino at this point could use his admitted addiction to renege on a payment, most certainly any from the CW group.

On a side note with all this talk of free chips being tossed around. I want it known that I welcome any and all free chips anyone has to offer. (Preferably BBQ or smokey bacon.)

 

[LHofsdal]

I've worded them similar to that and received the same response. Then I just started to state it upfront in one email to all the RTG's I closed. CWC, Sloto, Mainstreet.

"I don't want the free chip" and the reason is "it was getting too expensive".

Could it be that when someone asks for their account to be closed, support sends out a pre-written response? It seems odd that now 2 people have requested their account to be close and got the same response. Or maybe that is the way the support employees are trained and it is standard procedure to send out that email.

I am curious now because 2 members have had the same response.

LH

 

[takethemoney]

I'm relieved to tell you all that as of when I got home from work a few minutes ago the accounts are finally closed. That's all of them now. I'm doing great and thanks for all the support!

 

[LHofsdal]

Thanks for the update Steve, stay strong, you can do it.

I wish you the best.

Lori

 

[samoas]

I really don't give a f*ck at this point

After reading this thread & being a member here for 10+ years I see that all the "TOM" lovers and CW fans out there can think what ever they want. I will stand firm in my personal experiences, the experiences of fellow posters who encountered truly concerning issue at CW and now especially Steve, trying to make sense of a dire concern!!!!

Deplorable behavior on CW's behalf, IMO. Hmmmph! Maybe Tom's moving for the 10th time. Or maybe it's some inane British holiday (no personal offense my across the pond friends) and he has yet to respond.
**Detect sarcasm here!!!****

Christine

 

[bb28]

The problem is that you need to start reading more closely.

I said that "the casino could and should have read between the lines and closed the account" based on the ORIGINAL email which was NOT totally clear. As I said, it may have been deliberately done that way but that's just my take....considering the OP failed to mention that he played the free chip, which would indicate to the casino that he did NOT want to stop playing.

My point is that the OP can shake their finger at the casinos or anyone else, but until they take responsibility for themselves and stop blaming others they will not succeed in their endeavors to stop gambling.....and we should ALL be helping them.

I think you are missing something Nifty.......when an addict accepts that they are a addict, they realize they have no control. Hence he played the freebie. Also I think you are making a bit too much out of that small part of the story.

 

[chuchu59]

Other than not attempting to follow-up on issues of concern it does seem that CW does not have a standard procedure on how to deal with customers who make similar requests as TTM. If they truly want feedback they could follow FL's example whenever you delete a casino from your computer. There is a pop-up stating they are sorry to see you go but would hope that you complete the attached survey. When receiving closure requests, feedback could be solicited in another mail after the closure of the account(s). One thing that worries me though is some player, after requesting an account closure, suddenly requests for the account to be reactivated and making all sorts of noises if the casino does not accede to the request. O f course, that will be another story.

 

[jetset]

This issue has now been running for three days, generating an enormous amount of bad publicity for the casino. Yet Management has still not responded and have only recently got around to closing this compulsive player's account.

Whilst I was prepared to cut the operator a little slack initially on grounds of what appeared to me to be a stupid or badly trained Support rep, ignoring TTM's second email and being dilatory in not shutting down his account sooner is imo inexcusable, and may indicate a failure of the responsible gambling system at the casino in terms of either training and supervision.

Helping addictive gamblers to stop - especially when asked to - is one of the most important aspects of managing a gambling venue, and on this occasion CWC has failed imo. One can only hope that they use this sad episode as a spur to find out why their system failed and take measures to tighten it up.

BTW samoas, you would be mistaken to jump to the conclusion that anyone with an opinion at odds with your own is a 'lover' or 'fan' of the operator in this case. That sort of comment is unfounded and unnecessary....in my opinion

 

[takethemoney]

I'm pissed that I can't pm some the people who have given me the most care. Damn, I really want to thank some of you!

There is a lot of love here, as well as criticizm, but I earned all that. Overall, just great people here. You people are fantastic!

 

[The Dude]

I just wish for once that people would not run to making judgements before all the cards are on the table.

It was a weekend folks, and there was no need to go on and on about this knowing for sure that I would be jumping into this on Monday morning. Sure this thread was flagged for me (thus the title), but I had a lot going on this weekend especially since I just got back from Macau on Friday night. I figured this could have waited until this morning.

I spoke to the operator about this last night, and he told me that this player wanted a break because he wasn't winning - not because he had a gambling problem. I've seen the emails. That's why the csr offered him a bonus. As soon as the player stated that this was a gambling problem (about a week later), his accounts were shut down immediately (this was Saturday the 10th). I really think again a lot of members are grabbing pitchforks and torches needlessly.

The reason that takethemoney can't PM anyone is that he is in the "Quit Gambling" user group which only allows 20 PMs to be stored in your account - he has over 70 (you need to clean your inbox/outbox out).

So the bottom line is, if you complain to a casino that you aren't winning and they offer you a free chip, they are only trying to give you a chance to perhaps snag a decent win. No need to complain about it. If you explain to them that you have a gambling problem, they should shut down your account - which they did in this case. I don't think takethemoney will ever have a chance with CWC again. The operator told me last night that there is no way in hell that his account will ever be reopened.

After reading this thread & being a member here for 10+ years I see that all the "TOM" lovers and CW fans out there can think what ever they want. I will stand firm in my personal experiences, the experiences of fellow posters who encountered truly concerning issue at CW and now especially Steve, trying to make sense of a dire concern!!!!

Deplorable behavior on CW's behalf, IMO. Hmmmph! Maybe Tom's moving for the 10th time. Or maybe it's some inane British holiday (no personal offense my across the pond friends) and he has yet to respond.
**Detect sarcasm here!!!****

Christine

Tom has been out of town and won't be back to work until Tuesday. I don't think anyone had given him a heads up since this thread was flagged for me, not Tom. Let's try to be fair, please.

 

[Nifty29]

I think you are missing something Nifty.......when an addict accepts that they are a addict, they realize they have no control. Hence he played the freebie. Also I think you are making a bit too much out of that small part of the story.

I'm not missing it believe me. I just wanted to help TTM get better, as I respect his course of action in quitting, and I also respect him as a old sparring partner. A whole lot of others are paying out on CWC, so there's no need for me to pile it on, apart from my statement (which is being ignored for some reason) that "they could and should have closed the account earlier". I AGREE with the fact that it was poorly handled, but I also think the OP was sending mixed signals by logging in and playing....that's all.

If we make it purely about CWC, we aren't helping TTM IMO.

@samoas.....what jetset said.


P.S. Interesting info Bryan. Another case of a complainant providing selected information only to garner support. Very disappointing.

 

[maphesto]

I spoke to the operator about this last night, and he told me that this player wanted a break because he wasn't winning - not because he had a gambling problem. I've seen the emails. That's why the csr offered him a bonus.

Does this mean that this is an edited version from the original email?:

"Hi there,

My username is xxxxxxxxx at clubworld casino and I have other accounts though your other casino group. I have determined that I need to take a break from gaming online and would like you to close all accounts registered to my email address.

Please confirm.
Thanks,
Stephen XXXXXXXXXX"

Or was this part true?

 

[chuchu59]

Does this mean that this is an edited version from the original email?:

"Hi there,

My username is xxxxxxxxx at clubworld casino and I have other accounts though your other casino group. I have determined that I need to take a break from gaming online and would like you to close all accounts registered to my email address.

Please confirm.
Thanks,
Stephen XXXXXXXXXX"

Or was this part true?

It could also be possible that CWC thought that the fact that TTM wasnt winning was the cause for the request for account closure.

However, if what Bryan said was the reason advanced by TTM the people at CW should have at least 'protected' themselves by sending TTM an email stating they understood he recently had a run of bad luck and that the free chip may turn his luck around. As it stands, the email seems to require a reason for the closure and the free chip seen as baiting a customer who wishes to close an account.

 

[ksech]

@Bryan, maphesto asks an interesting question... are the emails TTM (Steve) posted here for all to read editted copies or are these originals? If they are the originals then I stand firm, they failed the player, if they are editted (shame on you Steve), but at the same time they still failed the player for not closing the accounts sooner.

On another note, Tom isn't the only CWC rep who logs in here, what about Martyn? Are these two the only ones who can close accounts? I'm not trying to stir a hornets' nest here, I'm geniunely curious as to how sincere this group is when it comes to handling players and the need to close accounts for ANY reason. I understand there are many disgruntled players who try to wheedle the free chip from the casino when they get on a long losing streak by "threatening" to close their accounts. But when a player states they NEED to take a break because they have a PROBLEM, these should be key words which trigger automatic shutdown. I just wonder how many others (whom we don't know about, and who don't know about CM) have encountered the same treamtment...

 

[jetset]

Speaking personally, I would like to see a chronological summary of what TTM emailed the casino, and what the casino emailed in return, because there appear to me to be some distortions or ommissions here.

From the perspective of members here at Casinomeister, this incident has been telescoped into the weekend just past, although it seems that the issue has been ongoing for awhile, with the parties apparently having differing perspectives on what happened...and importantly why TTM's account was not closed earlier.

Perhaps as regular - in most cases daily - visitors here we sometimes forget that not everyone, especially among the operator representatives, is as diligent in checking the forum out. Earlier clarification might have defused an accelerating issue - another example of the importance of communication.

I believe maphesto makes a good point in his latest post, too. It looks as if some assumptions may have been made on that email, taking us back to the semantics argument.

 

[Nifty29]

Does this mean that this is an edited version from the original email?:

"Hi there,

My username is xxxxxxxxx at clubworld casino and I have other accounts though your other casino group. I have determined that I need to take a break from gaming online and would like you to close all accounts registered to my email address.

Please confirm.
Thanks,
Stephen XXXXXXXXXX"



Or was this part true?

Good question.

Is it possible the bonus was awarded in response to a different email?

I think if TTM wants to settle the argument he needs to post ALL the emails or allow the rep to do so.

I doubt Bryan would be asking everyone to cool their heels and not jump to conclusions without a good reason, so maybe we should respect that.

 

[CWC-Martyn]

On another note, Tom isn't the only CWC rep who logs in here, what about Martyn? Are these two the only ones who can close accounts?

Hi Ksech, I monitor these forums very loosely and I do not have the power to close down player accounts. I have limited permissions on the player side of the business. My role here is to work with Bryan and similar sites that deal with casinos, casino information and promotion of casino. I just happened to login today and saw this.

If I see anything that might need attention I will flag it with the correct people here or follow up where I can, some might vouch for me on this. I took an interest in this thread partly because Tom has been off since Thursday of last week and I didn't want it to go unanswered.

 

[The Dude]

Does this mean that this is an edited version from the original email?:

"Hi there,

My username is xxxxxxxxx at clubworld casino and I have other accounts though your other casino group. I have determined that I need to take a break from gaming online and would like you to close all accounts registered to my email address.

Please confirm.
Thanks,
Stephen XXXXXXXXXX"

Or was this part true?

Posting one email without taking others into account can make things a little distorted. Stephen sent this email after months of going back and forth with the casino - there was already some history between the player and Club World. Stephen didn't just "out of the blue" contact the casino asking for his accounts to be closed. It was after a lot of communications between the two (as how I understand it). The casino wanted to know why he was quitting, so they asked him for feedback - and offered him a bonus to see if he could end his losing streak.

His reply two days later:

I think if you look at the overwhelming high percentage of deposits to wins, you will see all there is to know. I appreciate the free chip. Based on the results it's not fun anymore. Way to one sided and tight for me.

The casino responded, offered him another bonus for him to have a go at the games. His response:

See, it is just impossible. Even when you guys try and help me, still can't hit anything. I have requested my play logs for last 6 months on several occasions and have never received them. Something is holding me back here and I'm not accusing about anything, but nobody should lose every time. When I have taken money to the land casino, I never have this many losing streaks. I don't know what it is, but it just doesn't feel right and you guys have gotten a lot of money from me, just a working man.

The casino responded saying that they would leave things be - eight days later Stephen requested his account to be closed stating that he should have worded his original request a bit more directly:

...When I said I need to take a break and requested that my accounts be closed, it means I have decided I am a person with a gambling problem and want to exclude myself from your casinos.

That was on the 10th and the casino immediately closed his accounts.

...On another note, Tom isn't the only CWC rep who logs in here, what about Martyn? Are these two the only ones who can close accounts? I'm not trying to stir a hornets' nest here, I'm geniunely curious as to how sincere this group is when it comes to handling players and the need to close accounts for ANY reason. I understand there are many disgruntled players who try to wheedle the free chip from the casino when they get on a long losing streak by "threatening" to close their accounts. But when a player states they NEED to take a break because they have a PROBLEM, these should be key words which trigger automatic shutdown. I just wonder how many others (whom we don't know about, and who don't know about CM) have encountered the same treamtment...

Martyn deals primarily with the affiliate side of things - Tom is the casino manager. As far as I know, no one gave either of these persons a heads up, and even if they did so, it was a weekend. Many persons in administration use their weekends for other matters besides hanging out here

But players should normally be using the casino's CSRs at the casino to deal with their casino needs. The forum should not be a substitute for the casino's support center.

 

[ksech]

Thank you for clarifying this Bryan!

My apologies to CWC Martyn!

 

[jetset]

I'm still not entirely happy with the way CWC handled this problem gambler and his exclusion (not that that matters to the operator, I'm sure ,) but on the other hand it does appear that TTN has been less than forthright in this matter, stirring up a hornet's nest without actually disclosing full details of his interaction with CWC.

I'm no expert on responsible gambling (read a lot, attended a couple workshops) but did nothing in this guy's behaviour and repeated complaints about losing ring any warning bells with anyone at the casino?

 

[mattsgame]

I'm still not entirely happy with the way CWC handled this problem gambler and his exclusion (not that that matters to the operator, I'm sure ,) but on the other hand it does appear that TTN has been less than forthright in this matter, stirring up a hornet's nest without actually disclosing full details of his interaction with CWC.

I'm no expert on responsible gambling (read a lot, attended a couple workshops) but did nothing in this guy's behaviour and repeated complaints about losing ring any warning bells with anyone at the casino?

While I agree somewhat, asking for a break or account closure no matter what your motive, should be done no questions asked.

This is a very very hard thing for online casinos to deal with I would imagine.

They may very well ask Steve "Going by your behavior, we sincerely think you may have a gambling problem".. Steve's answer would be "nah, she is all apples". (of course until he admitted it, as he has)

Then if casinos closed peoples accounts on the whim they may have a problem, then no doubt people would be posting complaints about it everywhere and there would be an uproar on that side of the coin as well and innocent people would be caught in the crossfire..

Not to mention, some casino would use it as an excuse not to pay winnings and return deposits only.

 

[The Dude]

While I agree somewhat, asking for a break or account closure no matter what your motive, should be done no questions asked.

This is a very very hard thing for online casinos to deal with I would imagine...

It is. That's one reason why casinos will ask players why they want to quit. Bad customer service? The games suck? Can't win? Or is it because his/her gambling is out of control? Casinos need to know the reason why players quit so they can take the appropriate course of action.

As soon as the player told the casino exactly why he wanted to quit, they closed his account without further ado.

 

[jetset]

While I agree somewhat, asking for a break or account closure no matter what your motive, should be done no questions asked.

This is a very very hard thing for online casinos to deal with I would imagine.

They may very well ask Steve "Going by your behavior, we sincerely think you may have a gambling problem".. Steve's answer would be "nah, she is all apples". (of course until he admitted it, as he has)

Then if casinos closed peoples accounts on the whim they may have a problem, then no doubt people would be posting complaints about it everywhere and there would be an uproar on that side of the coin as well and innocent people would be caught in the crossfire..

Not to mention, some casino would use it as an excuse not to pay winnings and return deposits only.

How to identify potential problem play and then diplomatically broach the possibility with the player and open a dialogue with him or her is the subject of an entire session in most responsible gambling workshops...so, yes that is an important facet of this often complex subject, and closing an account 'on a whim' is definitely not an option.

The intention should always be the welfare of the player, which is why I asked the question above regarding his pattern of behaviour.

There are several outfits in the industry offering quality responsible gambling training courses - you have to wonder how many operators avail themselves of the opportunity to properly train both managers and staff.

 

[ksech]

I stll stand firm that CWC should have closed his account immediately (now knowing they had been going back and forth with emails prior to this) when he told them he needed a break and wanted his accounts closed, they never should have offered him the free chip. In my opinion, it makes the casino look as if it doesn't really care if the player has a gambling problem as long as they keep playing. Keep the player "hooked" no matter what. Throw them a free chip, hope they get lucky and they win and they can cashout, they'll keep playing. Keep the money rolling in. What's the matter with this scenerio?

 

[skiny]

Personally I think when a player asks to have an account closed it should be closed. That's all.

Does a person really have to tell a casino that they have a problem to get the casino to close an account? Maybe some people aren't hardened addicts and just feel they're in a little over their heads. Not everyone wants to step up and admit to having an addiction to everyone they talk to. A simple request that an account be closed should be enough.

I realize it's tough to lose customers, especially ones who lose a lot of money at your casino but part of offering good service is accepting when a player has decided he's had enough. I really don't think a second or third request or even a good explanation should be necessary. "I don't want to do this anymore" is all it should take.

Now once the account is closed if the casino wants to ask if the service was inadequate or if it was a losing streak that caused the player to decide to quit, a simple "sorry to see you go" email would do no harm but it's important that the email ask why the account was closed rather than entice the player back to the casino. If the response is "I've lost too much money, I'm going to play elsewhere" then a free chip will do no harm. If the problem is service, that's an issue the casino will have to work out but if you're respectful to the player even when he wants to leave and the player is not an addict you'll probably see him back again.

My point is not every compulsive gambler who requests an account closure is going to admit they're gambling addicts. Some might not even be fully conscious of it but feel they should probably stop.

Close the account then open a discussion and find out if it should really be reopened.

 

[Nifty29]

I agree that maybe the casino could have "read between the lines" earlier, however TTM has been (IMO) deliberately misrepresenting the situation the whole time....especially considering we now know that the free chips (plural) were NOT given in response to the email posted originally, which puts a different spin on things.

Judging by the information Bryan presented, CWC did not "bait" the OP at all, but provided the free chips in response to TTM complaining about losses.

 

[chuchu59]

Judging the change in course of this thread thru Bryan's revelation of the emails I will stick my neck out and presume TTM has not been truthful if he does not respond at all within the next 24 hours.

 

[ksech]

I am going to go out on a limb here...

For those who know a person who has suffered through any type of serious addiction...If this was a person who was close to you, a personal friend or relative, you would know that he is exhibiting "classic" denial symptoms of an addict. I am in NO way condoning what he has done, but am also not ready to give up on a person who has been here for years and contributed. Everyone was ready to help him when they thought the casino had done wrong by him, but now everyone is ready to hang him out to dry? WTF???

I'm sorry, but he needs help AND support. With a snap of the fingers everyone now is ready to crucify him. Why not put forth the effort to try to find ways to help him. If he needs someone to talk to, someone to go to who can answer questions, or whatever. Don't be so quick to slam the door in his face, at least give him the common courtesy and some dignity to be proud of himself for taking this first step in admitting he has a problem.

 

[bb28]

I agree that maybe the casino could have "read between the lines" earlier, however TTM has been (IMO) deliberately misrepresenting the situation the whole time....especially considering we now know that the free chips (plural) were NOT given in response to the email posted originally, which puts a different spin on things.

Judging by the information Bryan presented, CWC did not "bait" the OP at all, but provided the free chips in response to TTM complaining about losses.

Judging the change in course of this thread thru Bryan's revelation of the emails I will stick my neck out and presume TTM has not been truthful if he does not respond at all within the next 24 hours.

As ugly as it is.....addicts lie and deceive because they are sick. It doesn't mean he is not responsible for it nor should it be overlooked but it needs to be understood that it is part of the illness. I find some people being a little hard-assed about it because they don't fully comprehend that the problem is that control is lost.

As Ksech posted below, TTM still needs support and it speaks well of the people who can look past it and offer up support with sympathy.

I am going to go out on a limb here...

For those who know a person who has suffered through any type of serious addiction...If this was a person who was close to you, a personal friend or relative, you would know that he is exhibiting "classic" denial symptoms of an addict. I am in NO way condoning what he has done, but am also not ready to give up on a person who has been here for years and contributed. Everyone was ready to help him when they thought the casino had done wrong by him, but now everyone is ready to hang him out to dry? WTF???

I'm sorry, but he needs help AND support. With a snap of the fingers everyone now is ready to crucify him. Why not put forth the effort to try to find ways to help him. If he needs someone to talk to, someone to go to who can answer questions, or whatever. Don't be so quick to slam the door in his face, at least give him the common courtesy and some dignity to be proud of himself for taking this first step in admitting he has a problem.

 

[chuchu59]

I am going to go out on a limb here...

For those who know a person who has suffered through any type of serious addiction...If this was a person who was close to you, a personal friend or relative, you would know that he is exhibiting "classic" denial symptoms of an addict. I am in NO way condoning what he has done, but am also not ready to give up on a person who has been here for years and contributed. Everyone was ready to help him when they thought the casino had done wrong by him, but now everyone is ready to hang him out to dry? WTF???

I'm sorry, but he needs help AND support. With a snap of the fingers everyone now is ready to crucify him. Why not put forth the effort to try to find ways to help him. If he needs someone to talk to, someone to go to who can answer questions, or whatever. Don't be so quick to slam the door in his face, at least give him the common courtesy and some dignity to be proud of himself for taking this first step in admitting he has a problem.

Kim

We are still here to help him but if this was a deliberate act to extort free chips from CW I cannot sympathise with him especially if he tried to fool the whole community into believing he actually had a gambling addition and wants to quit. Frankly, I am wavering on this.

It all boils down to one word 'Integrity'. If this is in doubt, it will undo all the years of good work one has. Even if Bryan or Max were found to be untruthful, no matter how much they have done over the years, the tide will turn against them. I know that will be hard to swallow and I am being a bit insensitive but that's the way the world goes

 

[ksech]

See, I guess my perception of what Bryan stated in his post differs from what you perceived. But even if this has been a last ditch effort to "extort" a free chip from the casino, this is still a manipulation to get a "fix" for an addict. I'm NOT making excuses for him, just trying to make clear, this is what addicts do. On the other hand, if he was sincerely trying to "extort" money from the casino, why would he insist on the casino closing his accounts?

I'm making myself crazy, sorry. He knows he has a problem, he's done the right thing by closing his accounts. IF he returns to this thread, at least have the common decency to be civil to him. Hear him out. It may not be tomorrow, it may not be next week, but when/if he does return, let him have his day "in court"...

 

[chuchu59]

As ugly as it is.....addicts lie and deceive because they are sick. It doesn't mean he is not responsible for it nor should it be overlooked but it needs to be understood that it is part of the illness. I find some people being a little hard-assed about it because they don't fully comprehend that the problem is that control is lost.

As Ksech posted below, TTM still needs support and it speaks well of the people who can look past it and offer up support with sympathy.

I understand what you are saying luscious lips but while having sympathy for TTM we should also spare a thought for CW. If, all along, a player was moaning about losses and suddenly wanted to close an account the natural thing to do was either to comply or to dangle a freebie in front of him so as not to lose a medium -roller to a competitor.

Meanwhile , with the risk that I may be branded as having a heart of stone, please do not take everything at face value. Of course it is possible that TTM may have a gambling problem. Who doesnt here btw?. It is also possible that he is not really different from the rest of us.


I am a hardened man but in my real life I have seen people who feign mental illness to get off the hook.
Imagine a subordinate suddenly telling you she was out to see a doc and then sending you an email telling you she would be taking 4 weeks of sick leave and that was the period preceding a mammoth project she particularly detested. I wont go into details but I am 100% sure she feigned mental illness as this is hard to detect and she was not allowed to take leave due to the work in hand.

So yes, I am sceptical though in no way am I speaking for CW which has not done enough to protect themselves from accusations of being insincere in tacking gambling addiction.

One needs to ask oneself. What would you have done if you were in CW's shoes? There may well be many people who knows it is easy to touch on people's heartstrings and gain sympathy. I believe we require hard evidence from either party to come to a conclusion.

 

[Nifty29]

I don't see any crucifixion going on.

He is an addict. It's not helpful to an addict to say "oh that's ok you can behave how you like because you're an addict." It's wrong. It's just perpetuating the illness. The lies and deceit have to stop before he has any chance at recovery. I KNOW this for a fact.

We don't spare anyone else the rod when they lie and mislead in the forums.

The guy needs empathy, not sympathy. He needs to forget about all this stuff and delete his account and stay completely away from anything gambling related, or I guarantee he will go back to it. Nothing is more certain. One can still be empathetic whilst pointing out the addicts unacceptable behavior.

Anyway, I'm going to wait and see what occurs the next few days. We aren't all going to agree on the best way to help him, but help him is what I'm trying to do....the way I know best from experience.

 

[chuchu59]

I don't see any crucifixion going on.

He is an addict. It's not helpful to an addict to say "oh that's ok you can behave how you like because you're an addict." It's wrong. It's just perpetuating the illness. The lies and deceit have to stop before he has any chance at recovery. I KNOW this for a fact.

We don't spare anyone else the rod when they lie and mislead in the forums.

The guy needs empathy, not sympathy. He needs to forget about all this stuff and delete his account and stay completely away from anything gambling related, or I guarantee he will go back to it. Nothing is more certain. One can still be empathetic whilst pointing out the addicts unacceptable behavior.

Anyway, I'm going to wait and see what occurs the next few days. We aren't all going to agree on the best way to help him, but help him is what I'm trying to do....the way I know best from experience.

Nifty,

While I agree with what you have said I believe many posters are also concerned that if we are too harsh on TTM it may push him over the edge given that he has a gambling addiction problem. It is necessary for Bryan and co. to ensure this forum is not used for pursuing personal vendettas or gains but then it is equally important to dish out help to anyone in need. Personally, I have been there myself and in a big way too.

 

[Nifty29]

Nifty,

While I agree with what you have said I believe many posters are also concerned that if we are too harsh on TTM it may push him over the edge given that he has a gambling addiction problem. It is necessary for Bryan and co. to ensure this forum is not used for pursuing personal vendettas or gains but then it is equally important to dish out help to anyone in need. Personally, I have been there myself and in a big way too.

Good points Chu. Well said.

 

[takethemoney]

Where in the heck did I ever mislead or deceive anyone here? I might have things a bit mixed up, chronologically, but I have never, ever outright lied to anyone here. I'm fighting both a gambling problem and an alcohol problem. Ask me a question and I will do my best to answer it as honest as I can. This thing is getting way too twisted up. I really hope all of you can just relax and have some peace. I'm not worth you all getting into arguments! That was never the intent of me starting this thread.

I had an issue with casino and I needed to stop gambling. Both means have been met.

The only unresolved issue that is still crowing out there is this company's absolute refusal to produce my player's logs. I believe there is a reason for it.

 

[Nifty29]

Where in the heck did I ever mislead or deceive anyone here? I might have things a bit mixed up, chronologically, but I have never, ever outright lied to anyone here. I'm fighting both a gambling problem and an alcohol problem. Ask me a question and I will do my best to answer it as honest as I can. This thing is getting way too twisted up. I really hope all of you can just relax and have some peace. I'm not worth you all getting into arguments! That was never the intent of me starting this thread.

I had an issue with casino and I needed to stop gambling. Both means have been met.

The only unresolved issue that is still crowing out there is this company's absolute refusal to produce my player's logs. I believe there is a reason for it.

You're still going on about the casino "ripping you off" etc etc....you're not as far along the path as you think.

Forget logs or anything else and stay away from anything related to gambling. You have no hope if you don't. Oh, and being a gambling addict doesn't prevent you getting things right when explaining an issue....you have an agenda and you need to let it go for your own sake.

Let Bryan deal with anything that might be wrong at CWC.

 

[maphesto]

The only unresolved issue that is still crowing out there is this company's absolute refusal to produce my player's logs.

I really hope that you will receive the player logs. I don´t think your gambling addiction is getting any worse if you check those figures.

 

[takethemoney]

You're still going on about the casino "ripping you off" etc etc....you're not as far along the path as you think.

Forget logs or anything else and stay away from anything related to gambling. You have no hope if you don't. Oh, and being a gambling addict doesn't prevent you getting things right when explaining an issue....you have an agenda and you need to let it go for your own sake.

Let Bryan deal with anything that might be wrong at CWC.

Thanks man! The real good that has come from this is the great feedback that has helped me understand how ditched I have become. You are absolutely right. Why should any of these things matter to me in my recovery? They don't. Good news is I have not touched gambling since I made my announcement that I have a gambling addiction. Whether you know it or not, I do appreciate your feedback. Sometimes it's hard to take, but I get it.

 

[Seventh777]

Thanks man! The real good that has come from this is the great feedback that has helped me understand how ditched I have become. You are absolutely right. Why should any of these things matter to me in my recovery? They don't. Good news is I have not touched gambling since I made my announcement that I have a gambling addiction. Whether you know it or not, I do appreciate your feedback. Sometimes it's hard to take, but I get it.

Good luck with this, I remember a few years ago when I gave up drinking (worse 20 minutes of my life ), but seriously, once you have got through the initial stage the rest becomes a lot easier .

As far as Nifty goes I am very similar to him and his right on the nose stance, several times in life I have had close friends coming to me for a shoulder to cry on when they have split up with their partners, but, they aint getting no sympathy from me if the reasons they split up are being caught in bed with other girls, goats, etc, and completely ruined a good relationship entirely down to their own fault, the softly, softly approach may be warm and fluffy, but, it does very little, to help curing problems .

Anyway`s keep up the good work .

 

[chuchu59]

Thanks man! The real good that has come from this is the great feedback that has helped me understand how ditched I have become. You are absolutely right. Why should any of these things matter to me in my recovery? They don't. Good news is I have not touched gambling since I made my announcement that I have a gambling addiction. Whether you know it or not, I do appreciate your feedback. Sometimes it's hard to take, but I get it.

Nifty has provided sound advice in asking you to forget about the logs. If my hunch is correct, the rtp is definitely going to be worse than average. So what goes on from here? Deposit more to raise the rtp to a more acceptable level? or hope they give you something to cover your pain? None of these will assist you in your recovery. They dont and musnt matter anymore. Good luck mate in overcoming your addiction that is.

 

[ksech]

I'm glad you came back You do have friends here who care about you. It's tough love and it's going to be a tough road for a while, bit I believe you have the inner strength to get you through this. You've already taken the most difficult step and that was the first step, admittance that you have a problem.

I'm not going to tell you it's going to be a piece of cake here on out, because that would be a lie. I won't tell you what you want to hear just because I think that's what you need to hear. But if you ever need an "ear" I'm a good listener, my PM box is always open, no judgements will be made, no replies if you don't want any, just a place you can go to vent if need be.

The online gambling may be easier to quit than the drinking. You can self-exclude from the online gambling. Take the money you would have deposited into an online casino each night/day and start a savings account. At the end of the month use that money to buy something nice for yourself or your significant other. Use it as a REWARD for NOT falling for the temptation of gambling. Forget about those gaming logs, that was in the past, LIVE for the future. Today is the first new day of the new rest of your life.

The drinking may require a new perspective of way of life and people/buddies you "hang" with.
Some will support you in you're venture to quit drinking and others will ridicule you. The ones who ridicule you, remember, are only your DRINKING friends and will only be your friend as long as you DRINK with them.

 

[chuchu59]

It`s springtime and thanking people is the onset of VWM`s complex mating ritual .

Yeah maybe crossing a cat with a duck?

 

[takethemoney]

Yeah maybe crossing a cat with a duck?

Would we call it a Cuck or a Dat?