I need Bryan to read this, re: Club World. I can't PM

[takethemoney]

Hi Bryan,

As you know I recently posted a thread about my gambling problem and asked to be removed from those parts of the forums.

I feel there is something very important I need to tell you about Club World Group.

Here are the facts:

On many occasions I requested logs of my gaming from them and have been promised that I would get them. I had been asking for them since November of last year. Tom said he would get them, then stopped responding to my PMs. Support promised them in a couple days last time I sent them an email. Over a month went by, still no gaming logs. At this point, it doesn't matter, only to point out the behavior of this group.....accredited group, mind you. I'm done gaming online, as you know.

Here is the really important part:

I told them gambling had become a problem for me and requested all my accounts with this group be closed. They would not take my problem seriously, did not close the accounts, as requested.....in fact, they baited me by giving free chips and more deposit bonuses. Do they not take problem gambling seriously? I've asked them 3 times now to close my accounts.

I feel their accreditation is just wrong. Sure they will pay when someone wins, but they sure don't respond to other needs....very important needs.

I would be interested in your response.

Thank you in advance!

Steve

 

[chuchu59]

Dunno whether you should have posted in the Ask the Meister Section instead. CW is notoriously slow in providing logs and when there are software glitches they just refuse to follow-up.

While I dont doubt what you have said TTM I think you can show us the correspondence you sent to CW and demand that they account for why they didnt comply with your request for the closure of your accounts.

How are you doing btw? When I am down on my luck or funds I make a dollar bet on my favourite EPL team Arsenal and get a real kick out of it.

 

[SlotMonster]

Wow...this is very serious.
Giving free chips to a player who has a gambling problem is just like dropping more woods into a fire.

Have you asked Live Chat to close your accounts?

 

[bb28]

I'm sorry to ask but I think it would be good to clarify how you communicated to them that you had a problem. Was it by email, by chat, by phone?


I'm sorry this has happened to you and I wish you all the best in the future.

 

[chuchu59]

Wow...this is very serious.
Giving free chips to a player who has a gambling problem is just like dropping more woods into a fire.

Have you asked Live Chat to close your accounts?

I am not sure they baited TTM on purpose. They didnt comply with step 1 ie closing the accounts so the promos section must be thinking the a/c is still active though the player hasnt deposited in a while. This sort of promo is auto-generated and I always receive them when I dont deposit for 3-4 weeks. Its a free chip + a 100% match bonus under the title of 'Welcome Back'. If you dont take the match bonus offer they send you a similar one a couple of weeks later.

 

[jetset]

I would second both of Chu's posts above - this is a very serious accusation against any company in this business; deliberately encouraging a gambler you know has a problem is a cardinal sin and rightly so.

But let's hear a little more about this before rushing to judgement.

 

[samoas]

Hi Steve,

Hope you are doing well. I am sorry you had this expereince with CW. I am shocked yet not shocked by that info! Someone dropped the ball here and should be reprimanded.


I am not too keen on CW group myself and have stated so many times. Have always been paid yet support and Tom were evasive or completely unavailable too many times to count. Got tired of the red-headed step child treatment. The only time I could get a response was by calling Tom out on the forum for his inaction. Had to do that twice! That fact alone raised my antenna.

My personal experiences in addition to my girly instinct, tells me something was always amiss with this group. I haven't given them a penny of my business since December.

Wishing you strength, perserverance and really really hope you are keeping yourself busy with other activities.

Good Luck and will be curious to see the outcome of this!

 

[maxd]

I've flagged this for Bryan to have a look at. I'm sure he'll get to it as soon as he's back on deck.

 

[takethemoney]

I will be happy to forward emails to Bryan

Hi all. I deleted all my PMs because it kept telling me my stored PMs were over limit and I tried to PM all this to Bryan, but I couldn't send a damn PM, even with my box empty! I have emails to support my case that I have requested the logs, as well as requested account closure. I will wait for Bryan to give me an email address to forward them to.

Please understand, I could give a damn about my relationship with this group, either now, or in the future, or any online casino, for that matter. I just felt CM and others should know about this behavior. Nothing to gain here personally.

Here is the body of the email I sent to them on 2/22/2012:
sent to support@clubworldcasinos.com

"Hi there,

My username is xxxxxxxxx at clubworld casino and I have other accounts though your other casino group. I have determined that I need to take a break from gaming online and would like you to close all accounts registered to my email address.

Please confirm.
Thanks,
Stephen XXXXXXXXXX"

Here is the response:

"Hello Stephen,



I’m sorry to read that you wish to close your account with us. As part of our commitment to providing our players with the best online experience possible, could you please provide us with some feedback as to the reason for closing your account. To thank you for your time in replying back to us I have added a free chip bonus to your account (10x playthrough, 10x Max Cash Out, excluded games; Baccarat, Bingo, Craps, Poker, Roulette and Sic Bo.)



Kindest regards



Dawson

Club World Casinos"

 

[bb28]

Well in all fairness, you didn't directly state that you had a gambling problem.

You hinted at it but it wasn't directly said.

 

[maphesto]

I have determined that I need to take a break from gaming online and would like you to close all accounts registered to my email address.

This is pretty clear to me. From Club World

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

page:

•At your request we can permanently exclude your account from our casino and all our email lists.

The phrase "need to take a break from gaming online" together with "and would like you to close all accounts registered to my email address" is ALL the casino needs to know.

 

[bb28]

This is pretty clear to me. From Club World

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

page:

•At your request we can permanently exclude your account from our casino and all our email lists.

The phrase "need to take a break from gaming online" together with "and would like you to close all accounts registered to my email address" is ALL the casino needs to know.

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you here. Saying you want a break is not the same as telling them that you have a problem and you want to be permanently removed.

I also think that the cs person wasn't astute enough to ask more questions to clarify nor did the cs person have a clue that there might be a problem.

 

[jetset]

Hi all. I deleted all my PMs because it kept telling me my stored PMs were over limit and I tried to PM all this to Bryan, but I couldn't send a damn PM, even with my box empty! I have emails to support my case that I have requested the logs, as well as requested account closure. I will wait for Bryan to give me an email address to forward them to.

Please understand, I could give a damn about my relationship with this group, either now, or in the future, or any online casino, for that matter. I just felt CM and others should know about this behavior. Nothing to gain here personally.

Here is the body of the email I sent to them on 2/22/2012:
sent to support@clubworldcasinos.com

"Hi there,

My username is xxxxxxxxx at clubworld casino and I have other accounts though your other casino group. I have determined that I need to take a break from gaming online and would like you to close all accounts registered to my email address.

Please confirm.
Thanks,
Stephen XXXXXXXXXX"

Here is the response:

"Hello Stephen,



I’m sorry to read that you wish to close your account with us. As part of our commitment to providing our players with the best online experience possible, could you please provide us with some feedback as to the reason for closing your account. To thank you for your time in replying back to us I have added a free chip bonus to your account (10x playthrough, 10x Max Cash Out, excluded games; Baccarat, Bingo, Craps, Poker, Roulette and Sic Bo.)



Kindest regards



Dawson

Club World Casinos"

That is rather damning, but to me it looks like a badly trained junior employee thoughtlessly and stupidly screwing up rather than a deliberate company strategy designed to entice and further entangle a problem gambler. When this reaches Management I would hope that the reaction is fast and punitive - this kind of stumble can seriously harm a company.

Edited to comment that the request for reasons for closing the account suggests to me that this Support employee did not grasp the sense and gravity of what TTM was asking for.

 

[maphesto]

Saying you want a break is not the same as telling them that you have a problem and you want to be permanently removed.

He never used the word want, he used the word need. To ask a casino group to close the accounts is very similar to ask them to be permanently removed. Otherwise you just stop playing.

If someone goes to the liquor store and ask them to not sell to you because you need to take a break, they sure as h*ll understand that you have a drinking problem. They don´t give you a small bottle of scotch and ask you why you don´t want them to sell to you.

With this said, I don´t think that Club World management group think that it was a correct thing to offer a fre chip in this case. It was the support guy.

 

[chayton]

I’m sorry to read that you wish to close your account with us. As part of our commitment to providing our players with the best online experience possible, could you please provide us with some feedback as to the reason for closing your account. To thank you....

To be fair to CWC, the OP did just say they wanted a break from gambling - CWC support may have assumed it was because the player wasn't winning, and that's why they offered the free chip. But in that same email they specifically asked for a reason.

@the OP - Did you respond to that message and tell them that you had a gambling problem and that's why you wanted the account closed?

 

[P.V.]

This is why a one click self exclusion works for this industry. I created a solution for this by following the CM forum and reading complaints such as this.

It's absurd for a problem gambler to go to every I gaming site ever registered at to close an account and explain why you need to shut things down. There should be one place IMO, monitored by multiple gaming sites.

takethemoney states that he needs a break, what else could that mean? It's not that he's tired of winning, he needs a break from losing as it's causing problems for him personally, needs help to stop.

This isn't self promotion on my part as some may suggest, it's a fact. Not sure why you can't PM TTM but please PM when available so I can get you added to the database.

JMO - but I feel that there's only one reason for a player asking for a break and ALONG with close all my accounts. Need a break and close accounts = problem. If not it would just be need a break.

If it's just need a break then suspend my play, don't close my accounts and I'll let ya know when I'm ready to go again.

 

[skiny]

I have determined that I need to take a break from gaming online and would like you to close all accounts registered to my email address.

When a person says they "need" something it's obviously a lot more important than something they "want."

There was no complaint about game play or loses. It was a simple statement of need. Club World may take gambling addictions very seriously and have a perfectly acceptable policy for self exclusion but Dawson has obviously not been very well trained to recognize a potential gambling problem.

The problem with addictions is there is often only a small window of enlightenment and then a relapse. The very hint of a gambling addiction should be enough for any CSW to suspend all play until it is verified. This email could have been a player's one chance to stop gambling. A free chip could be all it takes to throw an addict back into the cycle.

Any request for an account closure should be met with one thing - An account closure. If a casino wants to follow up on the reason for the request it should do so carefully and not open the account again until it can be sure it was just a case of an angry player tired of losing and not a cry for help and the follow up should include information on gambling addictions and self exclusion assistance.

Someone certainly needs to have a chat with Dawson and possibly the entire CS staff. Any action taken by casino support is a direct reflection on the casino.

 

[ksech]

Sorry, but I have to agree with the few here, the casino is in the wrong...Steve asked to have his accounts closed, the casino should accept that, not dangle a free chip to entice him to stay. It doesn't matter what the reason is, close the account, THEN discuss the reason why he wants it closed. IF it's because he wasn't winning THEN offer him some sort of incentive to win him back.

He stated he needed to take a break, NOT wanted to take a break, BIG BIG difference. You can debate semantics all day long, bottom line is, someone screwed up. The CSR is employed by CWC, trained by CWC, so it's CWCs' screw up (they can't blame this one on the player this time...)

 

[chuchu59]

Hi all. I deleted all my PMs because it kept telling me my stored PMs were over limit and I tried to PM all this to Bryan, but I couldn't send a damn PM, even with my box empty! I have emails to support my case that I have requested the logs, as well as requested account closure. I will wait for Bryan to give me an email address to forward them to.

Please understand, I could give a damn about my relationship with this group, either now, or in the future, or any online casino, for that matter. I just felt CM and others should know about this behavior. Nothing to gain here personally.

Here is the body of the email I sent to them on 2/22/2012:
sent to support@clubworldcasinos.com

"Hi there,

My username is xxxxxxxxx at clubworld casino and I have other accounts though your other casino group. I have determined that I need to take a break from gaming online and would like you to close all accounts registered to my email address.

Please confirm.
Thanks,
Stephen XXXXXXXXXX"

Here is the response:

"Hello Stephen,



I’m sorry to read that you wish to close your account with us. As part of our commitment to providing our players with the best online experience possible, could you please provide us with some feedback as to the reason for closing your account. To thank you for your time in replying back to us I have added a free chip bonus to your account (10x playthrough, 10x Max Cash Out, excluded games; Baccarat, Bingo, Craps, Poker, Roulette and Sic Bo.)



Kindest regards



Dawson

Club World Casinos"

There is a big difference, at least on paper, between taking a break from gambling as opposed to having a gambling problem. Of course its not necessary to disclose your reasons for the break and closure of accounts but they are not wrong in offering a free chip to you either as they thought you were a disgruntled customer and a sweetener usually does the trick.

Actually, although they are wrong not to close your account they were maybe hoping the free chip could change your mind. If the a/c had been closed you wouldnt have access to the free chip and a player would then be complaining as to why a free chip can be placed in a closed account. IMHO they have not done badly on this issue unless you had replied to Dawson and insisted on the closure despite the free chip offer.

 

[LHofsdal]

Well, no matter what reasons were given, he asked for his account to be closed. He should have received an e-mail stating something like this:

Dear Steve,

As we are sorry to see you go, we have done as you have asked, your account is now closed. If it is possible can you tell us why you have decided to leave us? I hope it is not anything we have done to offend you. If in the future you would like to visit us again, please don't hesitate to contact us.

Sincerely,
Dawson

Something like that would have covered everything they said in their reply but they would have closed the account as requested. Whether it be a gambling problem, someone doesn't like the site, or having crappy luck etc. at this point it doesn't matter. HE ASKED FOR HIS ACCOUNT TO BE CLOSED!!!!! HE WASN'T ASKING FOR A FREE CHIP!!!

I really don't see how his e-mail could be misinterpreted. Asking for your account to be closed seems pretty clear to me. Maybe it is a poorly trained CSR, but no matter how poorly they are trained, all they need to do is read his e-mail. It is pretty cut and dry, when they (support or CSR's)e-mail us for something we are to follow every step to the "T" to be able to receive withdrawal or whatever the case may be. Why can't they follow directions from the account owner to the "T" when they ask for something?

Hang in there Steve, stay strong!

All the best,
LH

 

[Jasminebed]

I wouldn't be too quick to throw Clubworld under the bus.

A break implies that you intend to return.

Not too many months ago, I requested a break from one of my favourite casinos. My losses were heavy for me, although deposits were largely generated through previous wins and wins at other casinos. As requested, my account was locked down.

I did need a break. A couple of weeks allowed me get off the train of chasing losses, think about why my gambling behaviour had escalated and get my senses back. I think if most of us are honest with ourselves, we all have periods when we are at risk. Sometimes it's worse when you are winning.

I would have been quite upset if they had judged me to have a serious problem and not reopened my account, or to find myself excluded from other casinos as well.

We've seen tales told here of players closing an account without giving a reason, only to find later play at another casino to have deposits returned as having a gambling problem rather than winnings paid. The casino's reasoning seems to have been the only reason you might want to close your account is a gambling problem, not that you might just have a problem with their casino, or level of CS or pending periods or whatever.

It's very hard to admit you have a problem, and takethemoney showed great courage in sharing that with us. He needs to be clearer when requesting account closures that he needs more than a "break", he needs a permanent ban because of gambling addiction.

 

[takethemoney]

Some of you might be right

Actually, when reading some of the posts here, maybe I could have worded this request more firmly. I still believe that they knew from many prior communications what they were dealing with, which was a gambler with a problem. I have now sent them a new email today with the following wording:


Hello,

Maybe I should could have worded my original request a bit more directly. When I said I need to take a break and requested that my accounts be closed, it means I have decided I am a person with a gambling problem and want to exclude myself from your casinos.

Now, please close them.

Thank you,
Stephen XXXXXXXXXXX


Frankly, I don't understand how I was allowed to play there. Back in 2007 or 2008 I got into some financial trouble and the manager at my credit union, at the time, called me in to a meeting and wanted me to identify certain transactions on my VISA ATM card. She wanted to know why there was so much activity and what I had been using my account for. I wasn't exactly forthcoming with that information and she did more digging on her own and called me on it. She then advised me that such activity was not permitted for my account and initiated some weird rule 75 charge back procedure. I am certain some of them were against Clubworld and my account was locked by them. Some time later, I think about 2 years, I received a promotion email from them. I replyed that my account was locked. Shortly after it became unlocked, I began to deposit some again and even received a birthday bonus.

Last year I won a great sum at Slotastic and started to deposit heavily at CW, but just could never catch a break there, in fact, my play there is what finally brought me to the realization that I was just chasing and chasing and despite whatever perception I had of what the casino might be doing to me, it was me that had the gambling problem.

Not that it really matters at this point, but it might to someone else, what is up with the half dozen request for my play logs that were never delivered and later not acknowledged?

What was up with being ignored by Tom?

I questioned whether my RTP had been so low by design, in retaliation for charge backs before.

Anyway, I'm done. Some of us compulsive gamblers can really get nutty at times. I'm glad this chapter of my life is soon to be behind me. It made me become someone I was not proud of.

 

[all4greed]

Whether he used proper terminology is irrelevant. Clearly he wanted to stop playing (for whatever reason and length of time) and he was offered a chip to keep playing.

Not too hard to understand why it's wrong in this business...

 

[vinylweatherman]

Actually, when reading some of the posts here, maybe I could have worded this request more firmly. I still believe that they knew from many prior communications what they were dealing with, which was a gambler with a problem. I have now sent them a new email today with the following wording:


Hello,

Maybe I should could have worded my original request a bit more directly. When I said I need to take a break and requested that my accounts be closed, it means I have decided I am a person with a gambling problem and want to exclude myself from your casinos.

Now, please close them.

Thank you,
Stephen XXXXXXXXXXX


Frankly, I don't understand how I was allowed to play there. Back in 2007 or 2008 I got into some financial trouble and the manager at my credit union, at the time, called me in to a meeting and wanted me to identify certain transactions on my VISA ATM card. She wanted to know why there was so much activity and what I had been using my account for. I wasn't exactly forthcoming with that information and she did more digging on her own and called me on it. She then advised me that such activity was not permitted for my account and initiated some weird rule 75 charge back procedure. I am certain some of them were against Clubworld and my account was locked by them. Some time later, I think about 2 years, I received a promotion email from them. I replyed that my account was locked. Shortly after it became unlocked, I began to deposit some again and even received a birthday bonus.

Last year I won a great sum at Slotastic and started to deposit heavily at CW, but just could never catch a break there, in fact, my play there is what finally brought me to the realization that I was just chasing and chasing and despite whatever perception I had of what the casino might be doing to me, it was me that had the gambling problem.

Not that it really matters at this point, but it might to someone else, what is up with the half dozen request for my play logs that were never delivered and later not acknowledged?

What was up with being ignored by Tom?

I questioned whether my RTP had been so low by design, in retaliation for charge backs before.

Anyway, I'm done. Some of us compulsive gamblers can really get nutty at times. I'm glad this chapter of my life is soon to be behind me. It made me become someone I was not proud of.

With this behaviour over the preceeding 2 years, it should have been CLEAR that the phrase "need to take a break" indicated that the player had come to the realisation that they have a problem. Procedures to detect problem gamblers should NOT require that the player makes a clear and unambiguous statement that they KNOW they have a problem before any action is taken. Contrast this sloppy responce with the near anal manner in which students are dealt with because they "just might" end up in financial difficulties were they to get into the habit of making regular deposits. ALL players should be offered protection from the perils of their hobby becoming a problem, not just students.

The repeated failure to follow through with a promised action, in this case the provision of gaming logs to the player, shows there may be a wider issue with the internal workings of the group, with a lack of communication between different departments, coupled with a lack of the person making the promises on behalf of the group making sure that even if it is no their job to actually DO what they have promised, they make sure it is done and the issue properly signed off.

This sloppiness has now bitten them on the ass, because they have responded to a problem gambler's request for a "break" by offering him a free chip and THEN asking for more details. It should have been the other way around, getting more details to determine what type of "break" was wanted, and why.

One "problem gambler" provision is the 6 month break, rather than life exclusion. Surely "need to take a break" should have at least been interpreted as a request for this temporary 6 month exclusion, which again should not have been met with the offer of a free chip.

Given that it is hard for someone to admit they have a problem, the casino should EXPECT a subtle indication, rather than a black and white statement from the player. A semi-subtle indication is what they got, and taken with the previous correspondence where the player indicated a growing belief that the games were exacting some kind of "revenge" for what happend more than 2 years ago, should have been a CLEAR indication that this was a player struggling to bring a gambling problem under control.

 

[skiny]

This is the problem I have. When a player requests an account be closed the very first thing that should be done is to lock the account. We're not talking about flying out to the person's house and confiscating his computer. We're talking about pushing a button.

If the casino wants to discuss the reasons then go right ahead - after the account is locked.

Gambling is a serious issue. It's like alcohol. It can be great fun for anyone if they enjoy it and are able to exercise restraint but in the wrong hands it's a disaster.

A lot of people seem to think it's a great idea for casinos to throw free chips without question at people who say they want to close their account.

It's not.

Imagine saying to a bartender "I think I need to take a break from drinking." and the bartender responds with "I'm sorry to hear that. Here let me refill your glass for you and as a bonus I'll just leave the bottle... It's on the house."

Why does this bartender come off as being completely irresponsible while the casino manager throwing free chips at people wanting to quit gambling is just being generous?

It's not generosity. It's a lack of concern for the player. It's unsympathetic. It's irresponsible. It's greed.

You make enough money off the people who want to play and are able to play responsibly. Don't try to drag back in the ones that can't.