Hi from Ikibu y'all!

colinsunderland

RIP Colin
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
@Casinomeister Did you know you have an Exclusive sign up offer listed here with a max cashout of 6x deposit? If you think that is ok then maybe it would say so next to the offer.

Don't know about outside the UK but the UK page states

Maximum Cash-out
€600 on the Free Spins/ 6x deposit amount on the welcome bonus
 

colinsunderland

RIP Colin
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
Hello everyone,

No, I haven't disappeared from planet Earth since I wrote my first post, even though some people here will love if I've done it.

First things first, I want to clarify to everybody that to be a casino rep is NOT the only task on my day-to-day job. I will be very happy if I just get paid for being a rep...:cool: unfortunately, I have several other tasks to do in my job so it's a bit hard to me to keep track of all you write in the thread.

Nonetheless, I apologize for not being connected in the past week, I'll try to pay more attention from now on in order to satisfy all your needs or, at least, clarify your doubts and keep in mind your suggestions and feedback in order to improve Ikibu. :D

I am about to post a nice game later today or tomorrow (sorry in advance if it's tomorrow ;) ) and the prize will be some giveaways which I'm still thinking of. Hopefully you guys can help me but please, propose realistic freebies and bear in mind there will be wagering requirements.

I understand you don't love our WR and you will be better off without them, but this is how casinos work...and then it's UK. As you may or may not know (thanks @dunover for pointing it out) UK gambling regulations have changed a lot in the past 6-7 months and we are doing a massive effort to be compliant with all the requirements UKGC, SAS and other institutions are demanding. So apologies if this have caused any inconvenience but bear in mind this is something that ALL the casinos will have to do if they want to stay active in UK. Basically, don't blame us (the casinos) blame your politicians, it's them the ones who are making gambling more and more difficult to enjoy in Great Britain :lolup:

In the other hand, yes there's a series of T&C's that you dislike but, as someone said here, it's something beyond my control. I understand they are not the best around but so far we haven't got many complaints about them. Anyhow, your feedback is, as always, very welcome and I will pass the message over to the people in charge of all these matters. Just, try not to kill the messenger...:)

Well, I think this is all for now. As I said, I'll try to be more active than the previous week and thank you for understanding that more likely, it will be kind of hard to keep track of your fast posts (don't you guys work??:D)

@brianmon I will write you a DM trying to understand what happened there.

See you around, ladies and gents! :drink:


You forgot to answer my post

Hi from Ikibu y'all!

what is a large win?
 

Tirilej

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Don't know about outside the UK but the UK page states

Maximum Cash-out
€600 on the Free Spins/ 6x deposit amount on the welcome bonus

I could just see a link to the rules except for the max cashout from free spins. Maybe I saw it wrong.
Why I'm mentioning the max cashout of 6x is because another casino once almost lost their accreditation for having such a rule. People were furious in here, but then a guy had lost several thousands of his cashout since their rules was more vague.
I guess people do accept these kinds of rules more now. I don't, but I have the choice not taking them. I'm more worried with all the other rules.

Edit: The max cashout is listed so I did see it wrong. I guess I must have see it without the rules on some other page.
 
Last edited:

colinsunderland

RIP Colin
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
I could just see a link to the rules except for the max cashout from free spins. Maybe I saw it wrong.
Why I'm mentioning the max cashout of 6x is because another casino once almost lost their accreditation for having such a rule. People were furious in here, but then a guy had lost several thousands of his cashout since their rules was more vague.
I guess people do accept these kinds of rules more now. I don't, but I have the choice not taking them. I'm more worried with all the other rules.

I'm not agreeing with it at all, I completely agree with what you have said, just pointing out Bryan, in the UK at least, does mention it on the review page :)
 

dunover

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I really think some people here should get a grip and face reality!

The casinos are all facing a barrage of organized fraud, new regulations and bonus taxes and especially if UK-facing.

A limited bonus cash-out is nothing new, it's at many casinos as low as 2x in some Nektans, 4x in some Progress Play ones and 10x in another biggish group. Some simply impose a fixed cash limit of 5000 say.

There is no just cause to 'grey zone' or rogue a casino for bonus limits, it's not compulsory to offer bonuses and these are therefore voluntary on behalf of the individual casino. As pointed out, many casinos here and elsewhere DO have those 'abuse' terms and for good reason. It's down to how they administer them - a decent casino will spot the abusers and single those out, and a rogue or unethical one will habitually use the terms to punish winners in which case naturally we would all like to see them pitted or at least grey-zoned.

Do any of you remember Rachel's (Trada Rep) post? She explained how expensive bonuses were becoming and even on Trada's modest 200% to 50 once taxes, game costs and affiliates were paid the player would have to lose every time just to let them break even. Many smaller casinos cannot afford loss-leaders to the extent of old, so get used to bonus cash-out limits. They'll become more common and even in non-UK countries as they start to regulate and tax gaming in a similar vein to here.

It should be obvious to any person with some savvy that removal of bonus tie-in has changed the balance hugely in favour of the player and the casinos aren't in the business of handing out easy or free cash.

So let's day I deposit 100 and win, happy days! I lose the 100 then I have a free shot at a potential cash-out of up to 6x my 100 deposit. What is there to piss and moan about? Yes, this might be more generous at big casinos and groups but it's a reasonable offer nevertheless.

I know bonuses are great selling points and players like the challenge sometimes, even I do, but they aren't the be-all and end-all of online gaming.
 

Tirilej

Still a Lady
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Location
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I really think some people here should get a grip and face reality!

The casinos are all facing a barrage of organized fraud, new regulations and bonus taxes and especially if UK-facing.

A limited bonus cash-out is nothing new, it's at many casinos as low as 2x in some Nektans, 4x in some Progress Play ones and 10x in another biggish group. Some simply impose a fixed cash limit of 5000 say.

There is no just cause to 'grey zone' or rogue a casino for bonus limits, it's not compulsory to offer bonuses and these are therefore voluntary on behalf of the individual casino. As pointed out, many casinos here and elsewhere DO have those 'abuse' terms and for good reason. It's down to how they administer them - a decent casino will spot the abusers and single those out, and a rogue or unethical one will habitually use the terms to punish winners in which case naturally we would all like to see them pitted or at least grey-zoned.

Do any of you remember Rachel's (Trada Rep) post? She explained how expensive bonuses were becoming and even on Trada's modest 200% to 50 once taxes, game costs and affiliates were paid the player would have to lose every time just to let them break even. Many smaller casinos cannot afford loss-leaders to the extent of old, so get used to bonus cash-out limits. They'll become more common and even in non-UK countries as they start to regulate and tax gaming in a similar vein to here.

It should be obvious to any person with some savvy that removal of bonus tie-in has changed the balance hugely in favour of the player and the casinos aren't in the business of handing out easy or free cash.

So let's day I deposit 100 and win, happy days! I lose the 100 then I have a free shot at a potential cash-out of up to 6x my 100 deposit. What is there to piss and moan about? Yes, this might be more generous at big casinos and groups but it's a reasonable offer nevertheless.

I know bonuses are great selling points and players like the challenge sometimes, even I do, but they aren't the be-all and end-all of online gaming.

So we should just accept that the fact that they have some of their rules under Bonus Abuse and not under Bonus rules are fine?
That they are not clear enough?

So you can cash out whenever you want to? Well, I can't!
  • The deposit and possible winnings connected to the bonus will be locked to casino until the wagering has been completed.
I who always are accused of defending casinos should get a grip. That was almost funny:p
 

colinsunderland

RIP Colin
Joined
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Location
uk
I really think some people here should get a grip and face reality!

The casinos are all facing a barrage of organized fraud, new regulations and bonus taxes and especially if UK-facing.

A limited bonus cash-out is nothing new, it's at many casinos as low as 2x in some Nektans, 4x in some Progress Play ones and 10x in another biggish group. Some simply impose a fixed cash limit of 5000 say.

There is no just cause to 'grey zone' or rogue a casino for bonus limits, it's not compulsory to offer bonuses and these are therefore voluntary on behalf of the individual casino. As pointed out, many casinos here and elsewhere DO have those 'abuse' terms and for good reason. It's down to how they administer them - a decent casino will spot the abusers and single those out, and a rogue or unethical one will habitually use the terms to punish winners in which case naturally we would all like to see them pitted or at least grey-zoned.

Do any of you remember Rachel's (Trada Rep) post? She explained how expensive bonuses were becoming and even on Trada's modest 200% to 50 once taxes, game costs and affiliates were paid the player would have to lose every time just to let them break even. Many smaller casinos cannot afford loss-leaders to the extent of old, so get used to bonus cash-out limits. They'll become more common and even in non-UK countries as they start to regulate and tax gaming in a similar vein to here.

It should be obvious to any person with some savvy that removal of bonus tie-in has changed the balance hugely in favour of the player and the casinos aren't in the business of handing out easy or free cash.

So let's day I deposit 100 and win, happy days! I lose the 100 then I have a free shot at a potential cash-out of up to 6x my 100 deposit. What is there to piss and moan about? Yes, this might be more generous at big casinos and groups but it's a reasonable offer nevertheless.

I know bonuses are great selling points and players like the challenge sometimes, even I do, but they aren't the be-all and end-all of online gaming.

So you think saying 'large win' without specifying what a large win is, is acceptable?
People can play where they want and decide from the bonus terms if its worth playing for, but when the terms are deliberately vague and reps refuse to clarify them, then I fail to see how that can't be a rogue term.
 

brianmon

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I can't say I have a problem with a maximum cash-out from a bonus.
So long as the cash balance ISN'T tied in with the bonus, which in most cases it isn't now (at least, as far as UK players are concerned).

Once you've used up your cash, and start using the casinos money, they can add whatever restrictions they want to.
So long as those restrictions are CLEARLY listed
 

Yaker

Dormant account
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Location
Europe
I really think some people here should get a grip and face reality!

The casinos are all facing a barrage of organized fraud, new regulations and bonus taxes and especially if UK-facing.

A limited bonus cash-out is nothing new, it's at many casinos as low as 2x in some Nektans, 4x in some Progress Play ones and 10x in another biggish group. Some simply impose a fixed cash limit of 5000 say.

There is no just cause to 'grey zone' or rogue a casino for bonus limits, it's not compulsory to offer bonuses and these are therefore voluntary on behalf of the individual casino. As pointed out, many casinos here and elsewhere DO have those 'abuse' terms and for good reason. It's down to how they administer them - a decent casino will spot the abusers and single those out, and a rogue or unethical one will habitually use the terms to punish winners in which case naturally we would all like to see them pitted or at least grey-zoned.

Do any of you remember Rachel's (Trada Rep) post? She explained how expensive bonuses were becoming and even on Trada's modest 200% to 50 once taxes, game costs and affiliates were paid the player would have to lose every time just to let them break even. Many smaller casinos cannot afford loss-leaders to the extent of old, so get used to bonus cash-out limits. They'll become more common and even in non-UK countries as they start to regulate and tax gaming in a similar vein to here.

It should be obvious to any person with some savvy that removal of bonus tie-in has changed the balance hugely in favour of the player and the casinos aren't in the business of handing out easy or free cash.

So let's day I deposit 100 and win, happy days! I lose the 100 then I have a free shot at a potential cash-out of up to 6x my 100 deposit. What is there to piss and moan about? Yes, this might be more generous at big casinos and groups but it's a reasonable offer nevertheless.

I know bonuses are great selling points and players like the challenge sometimes, even I do, but they aren't the be-all and end-all of online gaming.

Well, I couldn't explain it better than @dunover has done it here.

As he's said (and not only him for what I've read) casinos offer bonuses to all their players in a way of keeping them happy and to keep this industry from not disappearing. Smaller (and not so small) casinos have also to make some business out of their offers, that's why they offer bonuses but also have T&C's to protect their companies. Otherwise, there will only be 4 or 5 casinos where players will be able to play at. Although you think we are the enemy, we aren't. We are trying to satisfy all the players' needs and make they enjoy a fun time at the casino.

Regarding the matter that concerns you more @colinsunderland What do you think we can consider a large win? I will tell you that is way more than €100. And those terms, as @dunover explained in his post, are there to make sure to everyone who plays that the casino can apply them if we believe there has been any kind of abuse. To date, we have never applied them and we have had winners of 10k, 20k, 50k, 100k and 200k in the past months so I guarantee you it's a T&C that we will hardly apply. I think you'll be safe 99% of the time you are playing at Ikibu, even if you win 20k...
 

dunover

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So you think saying 'large win' without specifying what a large win is, is acceptable?
People can play where they want and decide from the bonus terms if its worth playing for, but when the terms are deliberately vague and reps refuse to clarify them, then I fail to see how that can't be a rogue term.
If you don't understand the context I'll explain it -

This is specifically to prevent the old bonus hack of betting on roulette or BJ at low odds (table games obviously have a low WR contribution) and doubling up a few times, meaning the 'large' amount is in relation to the deposit amount and wagering remaining. In other words I get my 100 quid up to 1600 or 3200 on those games, then switch to St*rb*rst on 50p spins say for a few thousand spins to use the low variance to guarantee a significant cash-out.

So with the 3500 wagering or 4000 I had, the 1600 or 3200 would be a 'large win' in comparison to the remainder of wagering. Like the rep said, they know this pattern when they see it and act accordingly and it's rare as most people are aware of the consequences nowadays.

There was a CM group on here 'Colluders Anonymous' which had information and some of the math surrounding this ploy.
 

goatwack

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Makes one wonder how so many casinos managed and thrived for many a year offering players 100%+ bonuses with reasonable wagering attachments, when we're now effectively being told that 6x your deposit amount is 'the norm' :laugh:

I'm sure there were many reasons for it other than to simply break even and balance the books, such as I dunno player retention, providing value for money, prioritizing the customer.....

I don't know about Ikibu per se but any casino capping my wins to 6x based on the premise of me being a bonus abuser can kindly........... get out of my sight :cool:
 

dunover

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Makes one wonder how so many casinos managed and thrived for many a year offering players 100%+ bonuses with reasonable wagering attachments, when we're now effectively being told that 6x your deposit amount is 'the norm' :laugh:

I'm sure there were many reasons for it other than to simply break even and balance the books, such as I dunno player retention, providing value for money, prioritizing the customer.....

I don't know about Ikibu per se but any casino capping my wins to 6x based on the premise of me being a bonus abuser can kindly........... get out of my sight :cool:


Quite simply, the math! Tied bonuses were converted on a minority of occasions and thus the casinos paid them out on the lost deposits. Nowadays with the changes the player gets 2 chances to win the casino's cash, once with his cash balance and subsequently with the bonus amount the casino's credited them. It's simply a case of balancing the books under the newest rules, and when it settles down it'll become more apparent what the average casino can and cannot afford to cover. The casinos already budget quite a large sum for any new player (whether via advertising, affiliate share or simple CPA payments) which is often a loss on the net profit that player will bring in.

To award 'second chance' bonuses with high or no limits to be played after a depositor loses his/her cash would be suicidal for many sites. Don't forget, Progress Play, Nektan and many others have been doing this, with a far lower maximum withdrawal, for years. They must've known something we didn't until recently....
 

Jono777

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For the first time I think, ever I have to partially disagree with Dunover :oops:

Its the UKGC that have brought these rulings in, for the player to suffer, I think this is wrong, for the casino to make slightly less profit from a UK player than they would from a ROW player then that's the way forward and sorry the hindrance of staying available to the UK market. A Choice which can be made by casino management and I now finally see why so many casinos bailed a few years back (starting with the POS/POC change)

Moving forward I feel, yes have certain terms in place when bonus funds are in use but DON'T make it virtually impossible, listing every popular game as bonus restricted, together with this shifting from LV to HV BS, and yes it is BS!

The 6x max cash out is also more BS, why so low? - Imagine a players situation, loss after loss after loss - they sign up to you and boom, win, win, win only to be met by this ruling.

Not all players are T&C or CM savvy and yes they should read them but c'mon which "none experienced" players actually do?? - 20x D cash out would be far fairer and come as less of a blow and you're quite likely then to see that customer again, not something that is very likely if a newbie got caught out by either the 6x or the LV/HV rules :(
 

goatwack

I have nipples, Greg. Could you milk me?
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Quite simply, the math! Tied bonuses were converted on a minority of occasions and thus the casinos paid them out on the lost deposits. Nowadays with the changes the player gets 2 chances to win the casino's cash, once with his cash balance and subsequently with the bonus amount the casino's credited them. It's simply a case of balancing the books under the newest rules, and when it settles down it'll become more apparent what the average casino can and cannot afford to cover. The casinos already budget quite a large sum for any new player (whether via advertising, affiliate share or simple CPA payments) which is often a loss on the net profit that player will bring in.

To award 'second chance' bonuses with high or no limits to be played after a depositor loses his/her cash would be suicidal for many sites. Don't forget, Progress Play, Nektan and many others have been doing this, with a far lower maximum withdrawal, for years. They must've known something we didn't until recently....
Then I have no idea why casinos cling on to the bonus structure in its current format if it quite clearly dead. Second chance or not it's negligible for both parties, other than to say 'We have a Welcome Bonus'....

Throw in the heady mix of excluded games and it's almost not even worth taking anymore.....most gamblers would look at a sign-up and think of getting a nice cashout after wagering, not a form of insurance with 6x their investment.....

Would it not serve everyone better just to throw out free spin err I mean 'fair spins' :p for all concerned and abolish these minefields altogether? It's as though the tables have turned and what was once an appealing pastime has now turned into a bonus war of attrition :(
 

dunover

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For the first time I think, ever I have to partially disagree with Dunover :oops:

Its the UKGC that have brought these rulings in, for the player to suffer, I think this is wrong, for the casino to make slightly less profit from a UK player than they would from a ROW player then that's the way forward and sorry the hindrance of staying available to the UK market. A Choice which can be made by casino management and I now finally see why so many casinos bailed a few years back (starting with the POS/POC change)

Moving forward I feel, yes have certain terms in place when bonus funds are in use but DON'T make it virtually impossible, listing every popular game as bonus restricted, together with this shifting from LV to HV BS, and yes it is BS!

The 6x max cash out is also more BS, why so low? - Imagine a players situation, loss after loss after loss - they sign up to you and boom, win, win, win only to be met by this ruling.

Not all players are T&C or CM savvy and yes they should read them but c'mon which "none experienced" players actually do?? - 20x D cash out would be far fairer and come as less of a blow and you're quite likely then to see that customer again, not something that is very likely if a newbie got caught out by either the 6x or the LV/HV rules :(

Big bonuses are shortly going to become rarer than a drought in Scotland. The bolded bit of your post above is actually inferring what Tirliej was annoyed about - a casino effectively subsidizing the UK player by making less favourable terms to say Swedish or Norwegian players! if they were seen to do that, then the non-UK decent sites say like Betsson and Lucky Dino would then have a sizeable competitive edge in those markets and then it's down to which market is the biggest earner for them. That may vary from casino to casino.

Your second point needs to specify WHEN they win - if with the cash play then no matter, they still win-win-win and cash it all out, if not then a limit will likely apply. Like it or not, the figures of the casinos aren't favouring the UK players due to these changes so I believe we'll all just have to take it on the chin; it is what it is.

If you force the casino to offer unaffordable bonuses to the UK then they'll pull out and we'll just be left with friggin' Ladyboys, Betfair and the like and that is a far worse scenario IMO......
 

Tirilej

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Big bonuses are shortly going to become rarer than a drought in Scotland. The bolded bit of your post above is actually inferring what Tirliej was annoyed about - a casino effectively subsidizing the UK player by making less favourable terms to say Swedish or Norwegian players! if they were seen to do that, then the non-UK decent sites say like Betsson and Lucky Dino would then have a sizeable competitive edge in those markets and then it's down to which market is the biggest earner for them. That may vary from casino to casino.

Your second point needs to specify WHEN they win - if with the cash play then no matter, they still win-win-win and cash it all out, if not then a limit will likely apply. Like it or not, the figures of the casinos aren't favouring the UK players due to these changes so I believe we'll all just have to take it on the chin; it is what it is.

If you force the casino to offer unaffordable bonuses to the UK then they'll pull out and we'll just be left with friggin' Ladyboys, Betfair and the like and that is a far worse scenario IMO......

The sad part here seems to be that the rest of the world have to pay for uk's taxes since our bonus offers always are tied in..
Me myself and I though, stopped using bonuses a long time ago :cheers:

I still would like them to list those other two rules amongst the bonus rules and not in the ones about bonus abuse, because the players, even the innocent ones, needs to know they exist and can affect them. That I find you will have a hard time argue against dunover.
 

brianmon

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Not all players are T&C or CM savvy and yes they should read them but c'mon which "none experienced" players actually do?? - 20x D cash out would be far fairer and come as less of a blow and you're quite likely then to see that customer again, not something that is very likely if a newbie got caught out by either the 6x or the LV/HV rules :(

One thing to keep in mind though, is that the changes came about, partially due to those 'non-experienced' players, NOT reading the terms and conditions, and then complaining when they couldn't withdraw after a decent win. Because their deposit was tied to the wagering.

Although, it was also down to the casinos overly complicating the T&C and not making clear, the consequences of depositing with a bonus. in an attempt to trap the inexperienced.
 

dunover

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The sad part here seems to be that the rest of the world have to pay for uk's taxes since our bonus offers always are tied in..
Me myself and I though, stopped using bonuses a long time ago :cheers:

I still would like them to list those other two rules amongst the bonus rules and not in the ones about bonus abuse, because the players, even the innocent ones, needs to know they exist and can affect them. That I find you will have a hard time argue against dunover.

I wouldn't dare!!!:eek:
 

theapple

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One thing to keep in mind though, is that the changes came about, partially due to those 'non-experienced' players, NOT reading the terms and conditions, and then complaining when they couldn't withdraw after a decent win. Because their deposit was tied to the wagering.

Although, it was also down to the casinos overly complicating the T&C and not making clear, the consequences of depositing with a bonus. in an attempt to trap the inexperienced.

but they still have overly complicated, unclear T&C. Casino you are defending has unclear, overly complicated T&C. Im sure if people get their funds confiscated because of the "large" win rule they would be able to quote you with your explanation of what large win is and get their money back. But what about other people out there?

its a casino with unclear terms, 6x max cashout on welcome bonus which has 30x (d+b) wagering, for the rest of the world, and almost all the good games are excluded when playing with the bonus. It also has the infamous "after large win" rule too. And we have people defending them because nektan has 2x max cashout so this one is actually good. Its a wicked logic really.

  • The following games are restricted until wager requirements have been met : Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, Lucky Angler, Aliens, Eye of Kraken, Holly Jolly Penguins, Big Bang, The Wish Master, Devil’s Delight, Robin Hood, Tomb Raider 2, Tornado: Farm Escape, 1429 Uncharted Seas, Jackpot Jester 6000, Jackpot Jester Wild Nudge, Super Monopoly Money, Thunderstruck I, Kings of Chicago, Tower Quest, Vikings Go Berzerk, Joker Millions, Holmes and the Stolen Stones, Seasons, Alchymedes, Double Dragons, Seasons, Legend of the White Snake Lady, Nirvana, Castle Builder II, Immortal Romance, 300 Shields (NYX Gaming), Jurassic Park, Football star, Big Bad Wolf (Microgaming), Dragon Born, Vikings go Wild, Gold, White Rabbit, Jungle Spirit: Call of the Wild, Ozwin’s Jackpots, Break da Bank and Break Da Bank Again.
  • The following games only contribute 50% towards the wager requirements: Piggy Riches, Zombies, Jack Hammer 2, Steam Tower, Muse: Wild inspiration, Victorious, Ghost Pirates, High Society, Flowers, Flowers Christmas Edition, Twin Spin, Twin Spin Deluxe, Bloodsuckers, Bloodsuckers II and Spiña Colada, Dead or Alive, Dead or Alive Touch, Reel Rush, Bonanza, Danger! High Voltage, Queen of Riches, Star Quest, Energoonz, Extra Chilli & Reactoonz.
Thats with 6x max cashout, and 60x bonus wagering on top of it.
 

goatwack

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I do agree insofar that just because other casinos have the same/ worse terms, doesn't make this one any better. It is what it is :cool:

And some clarification needs to be made on the big win clause, because unless stated, we can all have a guess as to what it constitutes....
 

Tirilej

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Not forgetting yes that they are encouraging people to keep on wagering 100x on the bonus to be able to cash out more.
It's the same as asking them to reverse if they get a bonus.
 

brianmon

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but they still have overly complicated, unclear T&C. Casino you are defending has unclear, overly complicated T&C. Im sure if people get their funds confiscated because of the "large" win rule they would be able to quote you with your explanation of what large win is and get their money back. But what about other people out there?

its a casino with unclear terms, 6x max cashout on welcome bonus which has 30x (d+b) wagering, for the rest of the world, and almost all the good games are excluded when playing with the bonus. It also has the infamous "after large win" rule too. And we have people defending them because nektan has 2x max cashout so this one is actually good. Its a wicked logic really.

  • The following games are restricted until wager requirements have been met : Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, Lucky Angler, Aliens, Eye of Kraken, Holly Jolly Penguins, Big Bang, The Wish Master, Devil’s Delight, Robin Hood, Tomb Raider 2, Tornado: Farm Escape, 1429 Uncharted Seas, Jackpot Jester 6000, Jackpot Jester Wild Nudge, Super Monopoly Money, Thunderstruck I, Kings of Chicago, Tower Quest, Vikings Go Berzerk, Joker Millions, Holmes and the Stolen Stones, Seasons, Alchymedes, Double Dragons, Seasons, Legend of the White Snake Lady, Nirvana, Castle Builder II, Immortal Romance, 300 Shields (NYX Gaming), Jurassic Park, Football star, Big Bad Wolf (Microgaming), Dragon Born, Vikings go Wild, Gold, White Rabbit, Jungle Spirit: Call of the Wild, Ozwin’s Jackpots, Break da Bank and Break Da Bank Again.
  • The following games only contribute 50% towards the wager requirements: Piggy Riches, Zombies, Jack Hammer 2, Steam Tower, Muse: Wild inspiration, Victorious, Ghost Pirates, High Society, Flowers, Flowers Christmas Edition, Twin Spin, Twin Spin Deluxe, Bloodsuckers, Bloodsuckers II and Spiña Colada, Dead or Alive, Dead or Alive Touch, Reel Rush, Bonanza, Danger! High Voltage, Queen of Riches, Star Quest, Energoonz, Extra Chilli & Reactoonz.
Thats with 6x max cashout, and 60x bonus wagering on top of it.

I'm not defending any casino, or even casinos as a whole.
I prefer the old bonus rules.
I blame the casinos for bringing this upon themselves.
 

colinsunderland

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Regarding the matter that concerns you more @colinsunderland What do you think we can consider a large win? I will tell you that is way more than €100. And those terms, as @dunover explained in his post, are there to make sure to everyone who plays that the casino can apply them if we believe there has been any kind of abuse. To date, we have never applied them and we have had winners of 10k, 20k, 50k, 100k and 200k in the past months so I guarantee you it's a T&C that we will hardly apply. I think you'll be safe 99% of the time you are playing at Ikibu, even if you win 20k...

You have players who have won 200k using a bonus that is capped at 6x? You must give some large bonuses out.
Why not just specify the figure, you haven't told me anything. Way more than €100? If I was playing €5 a spin then I would certainly hope it was over €100. Having said that if I was playing €0.10 a spin then I would think €100 was a large win, but hey, anyones guess isn't it.
 

colinsunderland

RIP Colin
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If you don't understand the context I'll explain it -

This is specifically to prevent the old bonus hack of betting on roulette or BJ at low odds (table games obviously have a low WR contribution) and doubling up a few times, meaning the 'large' amount is in relation to the deposit amount and wagering remaining. In other words I get my 100 quid up to 1600 or 3200 on those games, then switch to St*rb*rst on 50p spins say for a few thousand spins to use the low variance to guarantee a significant cash-out.

So with the 3500 wagering or 4000 I had, the 1600 or 3200 would be a 'large win' in comparison to the remainder of wagering. Like the rep said, they know this pattern when they see it and act accordingly and it's rare as most people are aware of the consequences nowadays.

There was a CM group on here 'Colluders Anonymous' which had information and some of the math surrounding this ploy.

So exclude table games from the bonus, like L&L for example, or have bonuses specific, so you take £100 bonus for table games, you can't use it for slots etc. Or explain what they mean rather than the non specific terms they list.
 

dunover

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but they still have overly complicated, unclear T&C. Casino you are defending has unclear, overly complicated T&C. Im sure if people get their funds confiscated because of the "large" win rule they would be able to quote you with your explanation of what large win is and get their money back. But what about other people out there?

its a casino with unclear terms, 6x max cashout on welcome bonus which has 30x (d+b) wagering, for the rest of the world, and almost all the good games are excluded when playing with the bonus. It also has the infamous "after large win" rule too. And we have people defending them because nektan has 2x max cashout so this one is actually good. Its a wicked logic really.

  • The following games are restricted until wager requirements have been met : Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, Lucky Angler, Aliens, Eye of Kraken, Holly Jolly Penguins, Big Bang, The Wish Master, Devil’s Delight, Robin Hood, Tomb Raider 2, Tornado: Farm Escape, 1429 Uncharted Seas, Jackpot Jester 6000, Jackpot Jester Wild Nudge, Super Monopoly Money, Thunderstruck I, Kings of Chicago, Tower Quest, Vikings Go Berzerk, Joker Millions, Holmes and the Stolen Stones, Seasons, Alchymedes, Double Dragons, Seasons, Legend of the White Snake Lady, Nirvana, Castle Builder II, Immortal Romance, 300 Shields (NYX Gaming), Jurassic Park, Football star, Big Bad Wolf (Microgaming), Dragon Born, Vikings go Wild, Gold, White Rabbit, Jungle Spirit: Call of the Wild, Ozwin’s Jackpots, Break da Bank and Break Da Bank Again.
  • The following games only contribute 50% towards the wager requirements: Piggy Riches, Zombies, Jack Hammer 2, Steam Tower, Muse: Wild inspiration, Victorious, Ghost Pirates, High Society, Flowers, Flowers Christmas Edition, Twin Spin, Twin Spin Deluxe, Bloodsuckers, Bloodsuckers II and Spiña Colada, Dead or Alive, Dead or Alive Touch, Reel Rush, Bonanza, Danger! High Voltage, Queen of Riches, Star Quest, Energoonz, Extra Chilli & Reactoonz.
Thats with 6x max cashout, and 60x bonus wagering on top of it.

I didn't say it was 'good' per se, but now becoming normal and thus acceptable and could be 'good' for you if you bust and then proceed to get up to 6x deposit back. At the end of the day, if you ain't happy with the bonus, don't take one. Simples.

As for those games, numerous casinos will either ban or reduce wagering for the majority of those slots named, primarily due to the bleedin' obvious viz-a-viz cumulative features such as VGB, TR2 and BitchMaster and if not, due to the exceptionally high RTP and low volatility of slots such as BS2, 1429US which skew the odds significantly. An example being the 1429US game, which at over 98% would DOUBLE the likelihood of you converting a bonus over a 96.00% slot. Do the math and it's hardly surprising that every bastard casino excludes it....

The one thing I will concede is that like a lot of sites they have excluded some or reduced the %-contribution of high-volatility slots like BDBA, Borenanza, QoR and DoA which is over-insurance IMO. They are several of the games I'd choose to play TBH....
 

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