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Hi @ all (and sry for my rubbish english)

Discussion in 'Introduce yourself! (New Members)' started by nenad84, Nov 26, 2017.

    Nov 26, 2017
  1. nenad84

    nenad84 Newbie member PABnononaccred

    Location:
    VIENNA
    Hi i am Nenad from Vienna
    I've choosed "meister" because I'm sure that all questions and problems would be solved here the best
    In my case I'm waiting for a MGA decision before i want to explain more
    What i can say is that it is about a 237.626€ Jackpot

    What i wana know is, are you (as players) able to expect all decision from the casinos?

    Are the terms for you always that clear how the providers say??
     
  2. Nov 27, 2017
  3. AlexJamesSmith

    AlexJamesSmith Meister Minion webby MM

    What exactly are you asking? Do you mean, is the casinos decision final? Or are you asking if we, as players, respect the casino's decision?

    If your post is implying something about the terms and conditions, there was a post I read recently - forgive me, I can't remember which one - which saw a casino put in the 'Rogue' section, for having different terms in English, than in another language. (At least, I believe it was along those lines. Perhaps another member can correct me if I'm wrong!)
     
  4. Nov 28, 2017
  5. Mouche12

    Mouche12 Kitty Lover PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABnoaccred

    Occupation:
    Translator and facilities manager
    Location:
    Amsterdam
    Welcome to the forum nenad. Best of luck with your case before the MGA, I do hope you get your jackpot!
     
  6. Nov 28, 2017
  7. Harry_BKK

    Harry_BKK Senior Member CAG mm1

    Occupation:
    job is OK
    Location:
    Balcony
    Hallo Nena und herzlich willkommen bei CasinoMeister. :)

    Huge win and surely worthy of taking all possible steps to get it paid. Terms are very often not clear, hence why there are so many disputes between players and casinos. The casinos mostly have a paragraph in the terms that their decision is final but that is not the end.

    Is it a CM accredited casino?

    PS. Your English is just fine! :D
     
  8. Nov 28, 2017
  9. nenad84

    nenad84 Newbie member PABnononaccred

    Location:
    VIENNA
    225.000€ jackpot is frozen

    My special case is

    I have read through the terms and conditions and stands there

    Any bet higher than the maximum amount allowed for a match or accidentally allowed at the table will result in the excess amount above the maximum amount not being included in the bet and will be reimbursed to the player. The bet will then be placed on the table according to the maximum bet rules
    (it is not what type of table use, etc. so it was for me in general)

    have won the Jackpot after confirmed implementation of the bonus amount

    but now you do not want to pay because of the € 5 rule

    Is that ok?
     
  10. Nov 28, 2017
  11. nenad84

    nenad84 Newbie member PABnononaccred

    Location:
    VIENNA
    225.000€ jackpot is frozen

    I wanted to say that in the terms and conditions

    If a higher wager than the maximum allowed amount for a game or at the table has been inadvertently allowed, the excess amount above the maximum amount will not be included in the bet and will be reimbursed to the player. The bet will then be placed on the table according to the maximum bet rules
    it is not an example so neither what table or use is meant so it is for me as a general value

    After confirmed implementation of the bonus, I then won the jackpot € 225,000

    but now the casino will not pay because I allegedly should have violated against the 5 € maximum bet on bonus which is a contradiction for me

    do I see it all wrong?
     
  12. Nov 28, 2017
  13. nenad84

    nenad84 Newbie member PABnononaccred

    Location:
    VIENNA
    Yes it is a CM acc. Casino

    So in my case, I won the jackpot after confirmed implementation of the bonus amount € 225,000

    It is in the terms and conditions

    If a higher wager than the maximum allowed amount for a game or at the table has been inadvertently allowed, the excess amount above the maximum amount will not be included in the bet and will be reimbursed to the player. The bet will then be placed on the table according to the maximum bet rules

    Since neither is called a bsp nor what kind of amount, etc. I understood this as general

    Now they do not want to pay

    Am I seeing this wrong?
     
  14. Nov 28, 2017
  15. Harry_BKK

    Harry_BKK Senior Member CAG mm1

    Occupation:
    job is OK
    Location:
    Balcony
    So you took a bonus but they allowed you to bet higher than normally stated in their terms on a slot / table and you won a progressive jackpot of EUR225,000. After you won, they pulled out the term and don't want to pay?

    Did I understand you right?

    PS. You can PM me in German if that is easier for you. :)
     
  16. Nov 28, 2017
  17. nenad84

    nenad84 Newbie member PABnononaccred

    Location:
    VIENNA
    Yes

    That's exactly what happened

    The casino says that this rule is only for blackjack aso.

    But how should i know what they think??

    How can i be judged for someone else's mistakes??

    And the best is that the support confirmed that everything is ok i just need to verify (what i did)
    5 days after the management called me and told me that i am wrong they are right and i have no chance to get my money
     
  18. Nov 28, 2017
  19. nenad84

    nenad84 Newbie member PABnononaccred

    Location:
    VIENNA



    Yes thats how it was i have screenshots mails aso this is the thing why they wont pay me
     
  20. Nov 28, 2017
  21. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    OK, as I see it the overbet would normally be treated as you said, as is laid down in the rules, i.e. returned and the correct lower amount allowed to stand.

    The problem here is that jackpots are usually related to betting amounts - the higher the bet the more chance you have of winning it. For example a slot jackpot on a 25-line game with a minimum 1c a line bet would give you 25 'entries' into the random jackpot raffle. If you were betting 5euros then effectively you'd have 500 entries into the jackpot raffle and thus be 20x more likely to win it on any given spin.

    So the casino can and will argue that the jackpot is void on the grounds that the overbetting amount was instrumental in winning it.

    If I have misunderstood, apologies!
     
  22. Nov 28, 2017
  23. nenad84

    nenad84 Newbie member PABnononaccred

    Location:
    VIENNA
    Jackpot

    No thats not true the game was divine fortune there are no lines
     
  24. Nov 28, 2017
  25. Harry_BKK

    Harry_BKK Senior Member CAG mm1

    Occupation:
    job is OK
    Location:
    Balcony
    I offered my help to clarify the current situation.

    He deposited 100 EUR and took a 50% bonus from the casino and another 50% from an affiliate. WR was 35x bonus, total EUR3,500. He won a progressive jackpot on Divine Fortune for EUR225,000 after he wagered some EUR3,375 but was betting over the limit of EUR5.

    Now, the casino in question does not tie cash funds into bonus funds and lets you withdraw any winnings from your cash funds. But he dipped into the bonus funds, hence was bound by the EUR5 limit.

    The term they have quoted does not apply to slots as the casino can't and won't automatically deduct the amount over the bet limit as it does on a table game. Nor does the casino in question have a over-betting protection a la Slotsmillion. Hence, that explanation is somewhat mute.

    I suggested to him to submit a PAB since he was very close to have the WR finished and the term they quoted is not really applicable to slots. I can see though their resistance to pay the jackpot since Divine Fortune is a localized jackpot, coming straight from their pockets (although a % of each bet contributes to it).
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2017
  26. Nov 28, 2017
  27. nenad84

    nenad84 Newbie member PABnononaccred

    Location:
    VIENNA
    Right

    There is only one thing thats wrong (i hope that want change everything) its he not she
     
  28. Nov 28, 2017
  29. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    Yes, there are lines on it whether fixed or not, but that's not relevant I was just explaining how the chances of hitting a JP are worked out

    If you overbet on a jackpot slot (I guessed you had as per my last post) whether internal or network progressive your chances are increased the more you bet. So if you've overbet whilst wagering a bonus then the jackpot will be void, as the extra chance you had with the higher stake was instrumental in hitting the jackpot, and in excess of the bonus limits. I really feel sorry about this, but if ever casino HAS to apply bonus rules it will certainly be in the case of a progressive jackpot. :(

    I really hope they can do something for you, but they seem to have applied the rules correctly, albeit the CS agent quoted table games, the principles are the same as for slots.
     
  30. Nov 28, 2017
  31. nenad84

    nenad84 Newbie member PABnononaccred

    Location:
    VIENNA
    I understand that, but you can not forget condition 18
    If a higher wager than the maximum allowed amount for a game or at the table has been inadvertently allowed, the excess amount above the maximum amount will not be included in the bet and will be reimbursed to the player. The bet will then be placed on the table according to the maximum bet rules

    No example or situation or type of bet or stake is mentioned

    I got in answer that this example for the bonus is irrelevant

    For example, I would now have a bonus and violate condition 6 where it stands

    The player confirms that he has no knowledge whatsoever of the outcome of a game for which he wishes to place bets. In addition, the player confirms to refrain from any activities that could influence the outcome of a game

    and I use a hack and thereby make 500,000 € would the casino pay???
    if in the same terms and conditions under the same paragraph these 2 clauses are they can not say the one is valid the other is not
     
  32. Nov 28, 2017
  33. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    You keep mentioning 'table bets' but that isn't relevant here. The terms will specifically mention a maximum slots bet under bonus which you violated, and unlike table games the slot can't ignore or refund the overbet. Technically you won the jackpot on a void bet. I HATE to say this, but I'm afraid it's likely to turn out to be the case.
     
  34. Nov 28, 2017
  35. nenad84

    nenad84 Newbie member PABnononaccred

    Location:
    VIENNA
    I think that I don't like you any more and I'm sure that if i got the jackpot you want get a "thanks for your help" scoop of ice cream from me

    You see this different but me as "new" member of adlercasino don't understand this term like you do
    For me it's not clear that it's for special situations
    I understood that as general and it's realy (from my point of view)not that clear
     
  36. Nov 28, 2017
  37. nenad84

    nenad84 Newbie member PABnononaccred

    Location:
    VIENNA
    I have count all the bets until the time when I was confirmed to implement the bonus conditions together and come to an amount of 3461€
    But since bonus and your own money must be implemented together (ie 100 + 100 × 35)

    The bonus amount and the deposit amount must be converted together 35 times. When playing with a bonus, first play with your redeemed balance sheet before playing with your bonus money

    For me interesting are the 3461€
    So they count 50% bonus and 50% of my own money or they count only my own in both cases i can't have had break a rule

    I was never under 87.8 €

    I'm not an expert but am I seeing this wrong?

    The casino would indeed get more customers if the bonus must be implemented 16x but they say you need 35x so I really understand that only the 50% are crucial
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2017
  38. Nov 29, 2017
  39. nenad84

    nenad84 Newbie member PABnononaccred

    Location:
    VIENNA


    I realy understand their point of view

    What i don't understand is 18. Because there is no example and i read the terms before I choose them
    For me it was clear that when i loose and the bonus is active they regulate it automatically

    And I also don't understand how 50% bonus can be relevant for Implementation of the conditions but 100% are relevant for the 5€ maximum bet

    I asked them before and they told me that 50% bonus are from a third party and I haven't seen anything in the bonus conditions about a 3rd party so it was not relevant for me

    I haven't planed to break a condition and win a jackpot
     

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