Help With BODOG

[bearbear]

Hello all, Im a new member here and am hoping for a little guidance. After you read what has transpired with my account, you may come to the conclusion that I am lying and simply want to rescind or backcharge my deposits, I am asking you to give me the benefit of doubt. I will just post my email sent to Bodog as it clearly describes what has transpired. Bryan, I know you have a working relationship with Bodog and hopefully you can be of some assistance for me here is the email and then their reply, and lastly my reply. Thanks in advance for any guidance anyone can give. Here goes my initial email sent to Bodog

> I am writing you this letter to inform you of a series problem with my
> account xxxxxx. Apparantley while out of town for the past week or
> so my brother has done some malicious things with my account. He
> will no longer take my calls so I dont know the extent of
> everything yet, but here is what I know so far. He used my account
> to make deposits using my checking account to the tune of almost
> $2000.00. Although I think we are both in agreement that he should
> not have done this, I am extremely disappointed that there are no
> steps taken whatsoever to verify the identity of someone making
> such deposits. He told me all he had to do is log into my account,
> type in my checking information, and poof there was money.
> Protecting my account should be paramount to Bodog, and although I
> understand it is up to me to keep my bodog account # and password a
> secret, I dont see what would be so hard prior to accepting
> deposits from my checking account to make it mandatory to fax a
> copy of my drivers license and a copy of a check so you could
> ascertain it is in fact me making the deposits and so you could
> verify the signature with the one on my drivers license. Then you
> could avoid such situations. I would of never dreamed my brother
> would do somthing like this to me, otherwise I would have been a
> little more cautious when he was around me when logging into my
> account so he would not know my information. I would never
> consider giving a casino my checking account information as I never
> gamble with more than I could afford to lose. I have called my
> bank and they have put a hold on my account until I can sort all
> this out. This is a real unfortunate situation, Bodog is actually
> the one place online I feel comfortable playing and I would like to
> continue our relationship. He doesnt have the money to pay for
> this, nor do I. This is just a small part of it, my brother hasnt
> answered his phone in the past 24 hours, he mentioned suicide when
> I blew up at him, its just real unfortunate. What am I going to
> say to my mother if he actually does something to hurt himself. As
> per my bank, middleton financial is the name of the company that
> processed these transactions. I will be sending them as well as my
> bank a certified letter on what has transpired and will be
> contesting these charges as I feel that there were no steps taken
> on your part to avoid such an unfortunate mishap. I trust you will
> be in my corner with this so I can resolve it quickly and focus on
> the more important things in life like getting my brother some help
> before he does something to hurt himself. I would like to know if
> there is anything you need from me to put this situation to bed.
> Thanks in advance for your cooperation.
>
THEIR RESPONSE

Your bodog account security is YOUR responsibility, should you give
someone your account number and password, YOU are the one responsible
for ALL activity that goes on within your account, as its stated within
our player agreement:

"a Player accepts all responsibility for any wager placed from Player's
confidential account whether placed by Player or not, provided the
correct Account Number and Password are received by Bodog.
Specifically, the Player accepts all responsibility for any
transactions placed on their Account by anyone else that received the
confidential login information from the Player, whether voluntarily or
otherwise."

Why would we request that a client to fax in photo ID and a void
check to register their banking information within their own bodog
account, after they have all ready verified that they are the account
holder by logging in with their account number and password ?

We have hundreds of bank accounts registered every day, all day to
new and existing bodog accounts. We receive a steady stream of Faxes
from clients who are required to submit documentation on their credit
cards prior to payouts, along with clients who have been requested to
fax additional documentation, by our security department.

In no way are we going to inconvenience every new and all ready
existing client by forcing them to fax in photo ID and a Void check
prior to registering their banking information. This would drastically
increase our workload, causing delays in payouts for clients who need
documentation verified, and would Deter clients from registering their
bank accounts with us.

Had you kept your bodog account information confidential we would not
be having this discussion, but unfortunately this was not the case, and
you have now put us in a difficult situation. We are going to have to
temporarily disable your bodog account until we receive the status of
all your pending online check deposits. Should any of these deposits be
rejected, if you fail to make good on these transactions your account
will be forwarded to our collections department, and your bodog account
would be permanently closed until the balance has been paid.

The simple fact of the matter is that in NO way can bodog be held
liable for the events that transpired within your account.


If you have any further questions, please contact us at 1-888-263-0000.

Best Regards,

Bodog Security Department
security@bodog.com
1-888-263-0000

MY RESPONSE TO THIS
You know thats amazing your take on this. All you casinos are so quick to
take deposits in any form or fashion, and then handle the few problems that
come up as they arise, but when it comes to payouts, then you required all
kinds of documentation. As far as my account security, I certainly didnt
volunteer my information to my brother, and if your software didnt
automatically put in my account # he may have only had my password and not
my account #. Furthermore, if it was such an inconvience to your customers
to request documentation why do you require it only when you have to come
out of pocket on payouts. I really expected a little more from the biggest
name in the industry, your making it seem like I have complete disregard for
my account # and password and like I wanted this to happen. Like I pass my
account # and password out on business cards or something. I really
expected a little more, maybe you think Im lying or something who knows but
I really thought you would give a little guidance and help me through this
unfortunate situation instead of replying threating that if I dont pay up
you will close my accounts and pass it on to your collections dept. We are
going to get this resolved, but your tone to me certainly doesnt make me
want to deposit another red cent with Bodog. I will be seeking the advice
of Bryan at Casinomeisters and anyone else I need. In addition Im sure
other players will be curious how you responded to my request for help in
these trying times. Im sure everyone that belongs to bodog will be a bit
disappointed in your tone.

Maybe I am not looking at this from the right angle, I can certainly see their point that no one should have my account information, but their sentiments on it are well its your account, not our problem your responsible. If I had money in my account and my brother went in and blew my money, I probably wouldnt have said a word and changed all my log in details, but for them to accept deposits from my checking account without no authorization in writing just blows my mind. What if my brother spent my whole life savings, I would be ruined and their response is it would inconvience our players if we took such precautions. That just amazes me, they certainly require authorizations when they have to come out of pocket on a payout. Anyway any advice is greatly appreciated.

 

[largeeyes]

If it was online, you should have been able to turn off all options for auto filling entries if you had fear of this. You got screwed by your brother, not bodog. Take your frustrations/anger/court proceedings there.

 

[bearbear]

I agree

I can understand that completely, if my brother had not done this there would be no problems, nevertheless, if it was your account and someone somehow got your details and one of your checks, I would like to think that you would somewhat feel the same as I do on their security measures when it comes to bank accounts. If they went into your account and had your checking account info and drained your account, whether you knew who it was or not, and then Bodog told you well your responsible for your account details regardless of how or why, you are just going to have to eat all the fraudulent transactions that were done you may have different sentiments about all this. Also I am not stating that Bodog screwed me, my brother created this whole mess, its how they are responding to this situation that I am so taken back. Remember all casinos, well every business for that matter has problems, its how they handle such problems that really show the true colors of a business. I do appreciate your take though.

Thanks

 

[bpb]

When I made a deposit via Instant Check at Bodog, I was intially restricted to a $500 deposit until that transaction clears. It is unclear to me why Bodog would allow you to make a $2,000 first time Instant Check transaction.

Regardless ... what do you want Bodog to do? Eat the $2,000? What if your brother had ran that $2,000 up to 10K? Would you have called Bodog and told them that your brother used your account without authorization and therefore they should void the winnings?

Bodog isn't at fault here.

 

[bearbear]

Good Point

I too would love to know how he was able to purchase $2000 using my checking account. Believe it or not had my brother cashed out from bodog from these deposits, I would have returned the money or cancelled the payout and notified them on exactly what had occured and to disable this deposit method. Not everyone that gambles online is a crook. I have found in my life you get far more back by simply doing the right thing. Its a code I have tried to live by my whole life, and I am always trying to become a better person. Thanks for the feedback

 

[slotchik]

if the sportsbook is not in the USA, I dont think they can sue you in court if you "chargeback" the ACH deposits....Can they?

 

[bearbear]

?

Im not sure, I dont even want it to come to that, I just want to resolve it and move forward. I do feel that had my brother not done this it would not be an issue, however I do feel like Bodog, as well as other casinos should take steps not just when people request a payout, but when they first deposit. I do all my deposits via western union specifacally to avoid situations like this. Why is it when you request a payout all the sudden security becomes such a high priority and you need to fax this and that. If it were really paramount to them they would require it initially. I know with all the avid bettors out there it would be a bit of a hassle, but when something like this happens to you I believe it would change someones take on this whole situation. I dont know if I was hoping for some kind of concession on bodogs part. Its gonna bust me, I will probably have to take a title loan out on my truck or something but for them, they are not the least bit emphatic towards me. Its just a real drag how this is playing out, I did expect more from the biggest book out there. I really thought they were great until this.

 

[paul02085]

I feel for you man, but this is not Bodog's fault. If they do this for you, what happens the next 100 times some dishonest person says it happened to them too? Give em the money back? It cant happen. They would be nailed by every ripoff artist on the internet.

I believe what you are saying. I dont think u are trying to con them, but they would be opening themselves up to all sorts of con men if they refund your money.

A terrible hard example of what can happen if someone gets hold of a password. I hope you can work this out with your brother for your family's sake.

 

[samchopra]

bodog

this is unfortunate
i too have an account with bodog via my checking account
and there is an inherent risk when signing up online as your case shows
sorry, but bodog is not at fault though i feel for your situation
p.s. to anyone out there, what is a chargeback?

 

[funeralparty]

I agree, this is a tough situation. However, it is my understanding that when you purchase via online check with Bodog....you have to provide your account # and routing # and your bank account # for each purchase you make. Or am I wrong? If thats the case, then your brother knew all of these numbers??.....

 

[aodat2]

Unfortunately if you're asking me, I'd be calling BODOG and asking them to come to a compromise with you. I know it hurts a lot to see such a thing happen but the thing still remains that you could not ask BODOG to just forgo the $2000 that your brother ran up.

Let me put it in another situation for you... If your brother did not only get a hold of your Check but your Checkcard, walks up to a bank ATM machine and takes CASH out and put it in his pocket and you later found out about it. Do you think that the bank is at fault and do you think that the bank would actually pay you back for it happening? The same situation applies for BODOG.

You're being really unfair and you're not trying to help the situation by just putting the entire blame on BODOG. I'm sorry but since it's your checking account and it's your brother who did this, well... the best thing I'd say is to "teach him a lesson" and get it over with by reporting it to the COPS. Trust me, BODOG would contest your claims and you'd most probably lose in the end if there's no Police report made or something like that. Your account confidentiality is your own responsibility.

If nothing legal is put into writing, it's your word against them and they have no way of getting your A/C number if it was not done by yourself (or someone you know).

Think about it... 1st thing I'd advice is call BODOG up and see what compromise they could come to. If it's agreeable with you and them, then proceed with it, if not then I'm sorry, it's still your fault that it happened.

 

[bearbear]

I appreciate your reply. So what your saying is because it was my brother that changes everything. Not as per the casino, they say you are responsible for your account details--period. I want everyone to ask themselves this, lets say you have many casino accounts and you cant remember all your passwords so you have to write them down in a journal, diary, ect. If you kept that journal in your purse and lost your purse or someone stole your purse out of your car at night. Now that person goes into all your casino accounts and deposits with your cc or checking account, lets say $2000 out of your checking just like me. Are you really just gonna take it up the ass and accept it when they tell you too bad, its your account, your responsible for all the transactions period. Shame on you for letting someone steal your purse. How could you be so careless. Imagine that situation really happened to you. How would you be handling it right now. I dont think you would just accept from Bodog what they are asking me to accept. It doesnt seem at least by the emails that I have recieved from them that they are willing in any way to compromise with me in any way. Instead they have already threatened me. They havent even said Im sorry this happened to you. By the way I in know way think I am being unfair with bodog, I have already said I accept a lot of the responsibility. But dont you think its strange that they get serious about security only when it comes to giving you a payout. They take all our money no questions asked, they know they will have chargebacks but its just a numbers game to them. Its a very simple concept, they dont require these authorization forms prior to depositing because it hurts their bottom line. They dont give a crap about our security. If they did they simply would require a faxback authorization form prior to any cc or checking deposit. Anyone who thinks differently is simply niave. Thanks for all the responses everyone. This is just a bump in the road, one of lifes curve balls that is thrown at you, but when it happens to you believe me, you will feel that Bodog and all other casinos should make it mandatory to get written authorization on such deposits, ESPECIALLY with a checking account. If nothing else on your checking account, many people keep thousands in there, someone could absolutely ruin you.

 

[bearbear]

Funeral Party

I dont know if you have to enter all the checking account information everytime, I have never deposited using this method. I have found out that my brother knows all my passwords to my emails, bank accounts, ect...I cant remember all of them so I keep them in what I thought was a safe place. If I ever dreamed of my brother doing something like this I would have taken necessary precautions to protect myself. I probably wouldnt be so upset if I had deposited using this online check before and it kept all my information, and someone obtained my information and made more deposits. But thats not the case, lets forget it was my brother, they allowed someone to dip into my checking account with no resistance whatsoever. In short, I just feel with something as serious as a checking account there should be a little more precautions taken to make sure the person using this checking account # is who they say they are. A checking account is where people keep their life savings, and I dont think its unfair to expect a casino to have written authorization on something as serious as a checking account.

 

[bpb]

But dont you think its strange that they get serious about security only when it comes to giving you a payout.

Your argument might hold some water if Bodog required identification for cashouts. However ... Bodog requires no such ID for either deposits or payouts. They expect the account owner to show some responsibility in maintaining control over their account information.

This situation is entirely your fault. 0% of the blame lies with Bodog. Take full (NOT SOME) responsiblity for this situation and take some proactive steps to ensure the security of all your online accounts in the future. Bodog handled this situation the ONLY way they could. They are one of the most reputable books out there. Your repeated jabs at them in this thread are extremely weak.

 

[bearbear]

Please

I wouldnt know as I have never made a cashout from Bodog. They require a faxback form with credit cards prior to depositing, why not checking accounts. For crying out loud people keep their life savings in their bank accounts. If you think its unreasonable to expect a casino to take a precautions when dealing with peoples life savings then I can only hope you never go through something like this. As far as my repeated stabs at bodog are weak, well guess what, thats because Im not taking stabs at them. They are the biggest and most reputable out there, Im just dissappointed at their security measures when it comes to peoples life savings. I did not say they are thieves or take other stabs at them, this whole time my problem has been my checking account was dipped into with no resistance whatsoever, thats my problem so If you want to take things out of context and start saying my arguement doesnt hold water, so be it. Let it happen to you and see if you wouldnt have wished that they had more resistance when it comes to checking account deposits. Nothing is required but my account # and routing number and they are in my checking account, no idenity check, no signature verification , nada. If Im unreasonable for wanting a casino or book to take a few extra steps to protect me, then somethings wrong with me. Man when it comes to peoples life savings we are talking about serious shit, not some $500 credit card. Furthermore, I have said repeatedly in this thread that most of the fault lies with me and of course my brother for creating this mess, but for the 20th time I dont think its unfair for casinos to go the extra step expeciallly when dealing with peoples life savings to make certain the transactions on the up and up. Does anyone agree with me that when dealing with peoples checking accounts, there should be a few extra measures taken. Next time you write a check bpb I hope the clerk doesnt write the account # and routing # down and use it online. Then when you start looking for advice your told shame on you for allowing someone to steal your checking account #.

 

[aodat2]

Here's something that I seriously need to say again.

It's not BODOG's fault for accepting Online Checks. I'm sure your phone company accepts it too. If you're blaming BODOG for not having this security measure, then please do blame your phone company, electric company and etc. I'm about 99-100% sure they accept payments this way.

So, if you're actually trying to say BODOG should have this security, then I'm sorry that you'll have to tell everyone else this too. It's just plain pathetic for your Electric Company, Phone Company, DirectTV and etc to actually ask each and everyone of their clients to show them proof. Paperwork would most probably triple (if not more).

Think about this point before you make your next posting or comment.

As for losing your purse, well... I'd have called my Credit Card company, Bank and even made a police report about it. That way, if anyone actually does use it or if any unauthorized charges were to appear on my account, I would have proof that I have made a police report that I lost my purse/wallet and everything which was in it.

If you're actually looking to solve this matter with your brother internally (without the COPS involved), then you would have to settle this with BODOG as well and pay them. If you intend to settle the legal way (with COPS involved), then perhaps BODOG might have to come to an agreement somewhere. At least they could say it's genuine and do something.

That's the final stand on this... I'm sure everyone else would agree with me. If you said your brother did it, then hand him over to the cops. If not, then don't even try to chargeback, it'd be useless... they'd just contest that charge and you'd still lose out and not only that you'd be having to pay the extra charges too (bank charges and etc).

 

[bearbear]

I came to casinomeisters to get other opinions on this situation. Thank you all for taking the time, it is very easy to get clouded up in a situation like this and only see it from one point of view. I initally thought I would be contesting these charges, but I feel that most of the fault lies with my brother and I and hopefully I can reach some kind of compromise with Bodog, and shame on my for not thinking ahead that my own brother might do this to me. How could I be so cavalier about my account details, I should have bought a safe and locked them up so my own family cant do these things to me. Better yet, I should have put them in fort knox so my family couldnt do this to me. Understand people that this was unexpected from my own brother, but for people to say its unreasonable to expect a book or casino to have a few extra precautions when it comes to peoples life savings, well I guess we can respectfully disagree

 

[aodat2]

I do understand your frustration about this. But as I said, you have 2 choices.

1. Go to the cops and settle this with them in it.

OR

2. Settle this with your brother and pay Bodog.

The choice is yours. Having this happen to you from your own brother is a shame and I know your hurts. But the choice is simple. It's now up to you to choose what you would like to do.

 

[bearbear]

aodat2

As far as other companies that accept online checks, well its a bit different than an online casino taking them. I dont think my brother would have sat at my computer and make deposit after deposit to prepay my phone bill for the next 10 years, I think a casino is a tad bit different pal. The day you can go into a land based casino and cash a check without showing your drivers license, then I will not say a word. But wait a minute clerk, I dont have my drivers license, but I have this reward card that has my name on it and my and my casino account # and I know the pin because I saw him type it in on the slot machine, well if I have his rewards account # and I know his pin, it must be me so cash the check anyway. Thats how ridiculous cashing a check without a signature on it seems to me. And why do you keep saying I am putting the entire blame on Bodog, I have said numerous times the fault lies mostly with me and my brother, although I am also dissapointed that there are no extra measures taken when it comes to checking accounts. As far as my brother goes, maybe if I was you I would have him arrested, he will really learn his lesson then, or better yet lets have him taken out back and shot, that will teach him. There are more important things in life than money, I never turn my back on my family, he made a mistake and the torture he is putting himself through right now is far worse than any cop could do to him. I agree though, since I am not going to press charges on my own brother I will reach a resolution with bodog.

 

[aodat2]

That's exactly it... You have 2 choices.
1. Press Charges or 2. Settle it with Bodog.
Since you're going to settle this with Bodog, just give them a call and talk to them about it. I'm sure they will be more than happy to try to help you.

By the way, I don't cash checks at casinos, I just get markers.

As you said, he could have prepaid your phone bill for the next 10 years. Who knows? But again, that did not happen so that wasn't the case. If he did, you'd most probably be ragging about that over here too, right? Saying that the Phone Company is crazy to accept a charge that great and what not.

I'm sorry if I sound like I'm siding with Bodog but it's not their fault at all. They just do what they need to do for business. You wouldn't ask your clients for ID if they come in with a credit card but if they want a refund, I'm sure you'd have to write their name and particulars down. RIGHT?

 

[bearbear]

aodat2

You said it right aodat2, they just do what they need to do for business, they do whats best for them. If depositing using this method hurt their bottom line, you can bet there would be a change made to benefit their bottom line. They dont take the security steps simply because depositors would get annoyed and it would hurt their bottom line. I came here for opinions and advice, I wanted to get some different point of views and you have provided a different point of view, thanks for taking the time however we may disagree.

 

[GOCC]

PLEASE dont take this the wrong way mate but it seems that any advice that says you should take this up with your brother is damned but any sympathising with you against BODOG goes rewarded.

The end of the day, the security is there before you get into your BODOG account. Your account number and password is needed. Why your brother had access to this is beyond me but that is a seperate issue. I have over 40 sportsbook accounts and each one of them, registeres my credit/debit card details as fixed, IE I dont have to re-enter them, however I do need to enter my password to make a depsoit.

See it from BODOGs point of view, someone deposits $2K, loses and then says it wasnt me it was my brother. Like another poster says, would you be whingeing if he had won ??

If this occured in the UK, there would be a case for Obtaining Goods (namely money) by Deception. I think you need to deal with this with your brother and dont be so stupid to let others know your details

 

[Casinomeister]

Hi Bearbear,

Welcome to the forum. Please make sure that when posting a complaint that you PM the casino rep listed here:
Old URL

Brad@bodog is their casino manager. I've PMd him for you:

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/bromo98.1915/

Please understand that casinos deal with fraud on a daily basis. One such scenario is a player losing more than he is willing to lose and then blames it on his teenage son, wife, drunk girlfriend, cat, etc., getting a hold of his account information. In most situations, this is highly unlikely. And in most fraudulent situations, this is proven by reviewing the player's playing style and other indicators that it's the same person.

I'm not saying that this is the case here. I'm just pointing out that this is a widespread problem. This is why it is the players' responsibility - which is made perfectly clear - to ensure that they keep all sensitive information to themselves. Gambling online takes a great deal of responsibility from the player's standpoint. You (the player) must be proactive in protecting your data. Don't leave it up to someone else.

This means changing passwords frequently, and don't use the same username at various online casinos.

Brad should be able to give us some insight on what's up. In the meantime, you should be dealing with your a-hole brother.

 

[KasinoKing]

I came to casinomeisters to get other opinions on this situation. Thank you all for taking the time, it is very easy to get clouded up in a situation like this and only see it from one point of view. I initally thought I would be contesting these charges, but I feel that most of the fault lies with my brother and I and hopefully I can reach some kind of compromise with Bodog, and shame on my for not thinking ahead that my own brother might do this to me. How could I be so cavalier about my account details, I should have bought a safe and locked them up so my own family cant do these things to me. Better yet, I should have put them in fort knox so my family couldnt do this to me. Understand people that this was unexpected from my own brother, but for people to say its unreasonable to expect a book or casino to have a few extra precautions when it comes to peoples life savings, well I guess we can respectfully disagree

It does seem strange to me that your own brother should suddenly go online and blow 2 grand of your money just like that, out of the blue.
Why would he do such a wicked thing?
Has he ever done anything unusual like this before, like maybe take some cash from your wallet, or log into other online facilities of yours without permission?
It's hard to believe this was an isolated incident, and so if you knew he was liable to do crazy things, you maybe should have been more careful with your info.
I feel very sorry for you, but can see both sides of the argument. For Bodog to 'write off' this $2K and give it back to you would actually cost them nothing, as no physical goods or labour has been consumed. But as someone else pointed out, to start doing this would set a precedent that could lead to thousands of similar claims.
You say that family is more important than money - and this is a very big test of that!
Good luck in the future.

 

[sweetdenny]

Points raised

After reading this post it has become apparent that the original poster made the mistake of being honest saying he knew who made the depsoits as if he had just said 2000 was deposited and it wasnt me then like casinomeister has said they may have looked at betting patterns and would have been able to tell it was not his style of play and may have been more helpfull. Unfortunately he said it was his brother so their attitude has been tough its your fault if someone had hacked his account from a remote computer would this still be their standpoint. It is also reasonable to expect casinos to get id up front the only reason they dont is monetary if you lose all your cash they dont care who you are or where the cash came from but if you win they want to know who you are who your mother is and who your best friend at school was. If bodog can tell if it was the poster playing or not surely they should refund his deposits and then proceed to recover the cash from his brother or prosecute him. The casino has to take some responsibility in who is using their software the fact they only do this if someone wins is not right. Also if he just does the chargeback and gets his money back that way how does the casino collect the money what is the collections department i have always thought that gambling debts are not enfoceable by law at least that is the case in the uk or has this changed. I would like to know what powers the casinos collection departments have as they are registered in out of the way countries most of the time does this mean two men with baseball bats will turn up at midnight demanding cash. I hope the casino at least does do an investigation into who played they have frozen his account to make sure they get their money so they could use this time to investigate exactly what happened the best they can this is not unreasonable.