GoldenLounge VS Shmu800t

[Shmu800t]

[Max says: this player has attempted to blackmail the casino into forced weekly payments. Such activity is abuse of the forums and won't be tolerated.]

Spoiler

In short, I made a deposit planning to play without a bonus, 10% was auto credited , after I cashout my funds (bonus was cleared) they added bonuses in order to reverse my funds again and again, I agree to play more based on a good trust reached 14,000 but they never paid.

On 24.10.08 I played sign up bonus in GoldenLounge casino, it was 200 deposit for 200 bonus, so I played with 400. I played Avelon slot game



Avelon is 20 lines slot when the max coin is 0.5pound and the max bet is 200 coines (10 coins per line).



I lost the money.



Then after 6 days, on 30.10.08 I deposited 200 more and received only 20 pound bonus, that I didnt ask for.



I play Avelon again and won.

I won 7000 pound, completed the rollover requirements for the 10% bonus and withdrew my winnings.



After couples of days I received mail that said that for unknown situation I still have 100 pound in my account. And if I would not clear that bonus the money that in withdrawal process will return to the casino.



So I played Avlon again and cleared the money, so I expected that the withdrawal process will continue normally.



After another some days I received mail that I have again money (100p) in my bonus account and that my withdrawal money returned to my casino account. And that I have to do wager 30 times the bonus before withdrawal.



I logged in to casino account and played again and won another 7000 pounds so in total I had 14000pound. I finished the wager requirement and withdrawal the money.

I played Avelon slot and maybe little DOBLE MAGIC slot (maybe not)



Double magic slot is three line slot with max 3 coins, every coin equal to 5 pound so max bet is 15 pound ( I always play max)



Than after couple of days I received that mail that I played no risk game.

But slot Is very risky game or the riskiest game in the casino so thats argue is ridicules

And that they returned my both deposits to neteller account and that they are not going to pay me the winning money





All the additional bonuses that they sent to the casino is only trying not to pay the money and you play risky games and did all the wager requirements

So you play by the term and condition but they behavior was not acceptable.


I pitched a bitch, at that time when I played many players complained and a warning was issued by Casinomeister, the wanring was withdrawn as I understand from the forum because they start to pay players who haad past issues, they never paid me.

I understand it is a big amount and understand the Casinoemsiter power is limited, but I don't understand why he removed the wanring against this bad casino.

Casinomeister emailmed me my case is closed and a warning was issued at that time of complaint due to the fact they were not willing to answer him at the Casino .

Not paying me blaming me (when they still answered to emails) that I am a bonus abuser is an unfunny joke.

 

[slotheadlizard]

WOW

That is a shame IMO. I hope you can get some sort of resolution on this issue. Sorry CM couldn't help, but as you stated he only has limited power. Good Luck

 

[Nifty29]

Well, either:

1. The casino has acted in a seriously rogue fashion,

OR

2. The OP isnt telling us the whole story.

I wonder which???

 

[KasinoKing]

Casinomeister emailmed me my case is closed and a warning was issued at that time of complaint due to the fact they were not willing to answer him at the Casino.

You don't say how long ago this was, but I think you should contact the CasinoMeister again by PM or e-mail and ask him nicely to have another look at this case.

I don't fully understand what you are saying in your post, but it definitely doesn't sound right!

KK

 

[maxd]

Basically what the OP is saying is that GL hasn't resolved their issue which dates back to last November here and goes a lot further back than that at the casino.

I'm not going to defend GL here but the OP has failed to mention that they have almost 200 accounts registered on the MG network. This _seriously_ complicates the resolution of any issue because it sets off every Risk and Security alarm bell in the system!

 

[ultra100]

After couples of days I received mail that said that for unknown situation I still have 100 pound in my account. And if I would not clear that bonus the money that in withdrawal process will return to the casino.

After another some days I received mail that I have again money (100p) in my bonus account and that my withdrawal money returned to my casino account. And that I have to do wager 30 times the bonus before withdrawal.

Than after couple of days I received that mail that I played no risk game.

Do you have those 3 emails? That would be interesting to see.

As Nifty29 said, if this is all the true, and you told us the whole story, casino acted in a very rogue way.

 

[Nifty29]

Basically what the OP is saying is that GL hasn't resolved their issue which dates back to last November here and goes a lot further back than that at the casino.

I'm not going to defend GL here but the OP has failed to mention that they have almost 200 accounts registered on the MG network. This _seriously_ complicates the resolution of any issue because it sets off every Risk and Security alarm bell in the system!

Interesting stuff Max. Considering the MG website states they have 120 casino licensees, that is a VERY important fact that the OP failed to mention.

So it looks like there IS another side to the story.

Time for the OP to be a little more forthcoming.

 

[The Dude]

Normal players have on average maybe up to ten or so accounts across the MGS platform. 198 accounts is a bit excessive - and like Nifty29 mentioned - there are only 120 MGS casinos.

The casino is adamant that this is fraudulent activity and violates their terms.

 

[deucebag]

Unless the player has multiple accounts at Golden Lounge, I don't see why this should be an issue.

I'm willing to bet they would not have given him back his deposit if he had lost.

 

[maxd]

Unless the player has multiple accounts at Golden Lounge, I don't see why this should be an issue.

Have a look at

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

:

Promotion Terms And Conditions
...
17. We contribute to and make use of a shared industry database of promotion abusers and fraudsters. Individuals known from this database will not be eligible for any promotional offers and the casino reserves the right to lock their account and refuse access to the casino and void [sic].

Multiple accounts across the network would, in general, most certainly be a relevant issue if it becomes a factor in identifying a case of fraud.

As I recall the player also had multiple accounts at GL though there was only one account currently being used.

FWIW, whether there was fraud involved or not it was clear to me that the player had either been exceptionally ignorant of the casino rules or simply didn't give a damn. As I've said, all of this greatly complicates their claims against the casino.

I think it's also worth noting that GL seems to have been going out of their way to deal swiftly and fairly with the PAB cases that have come to us since the OP's issue was filed.

 

[Nifty29]

I think it's also worth noting that GL seems to have been going out of their way to deal swiftly and fairly with the PAB cases that have come to us since the OP's issue was filed.

Speaks volumes IMO

 

[Shmu800t]

Just a quick note, Max, the casino is not telling the truth ,I do not have 200 accounts at the Micorgaming Network, not even half.

I will come later with details and emails they sent me

I bet they did the same trick to other players who might read this thread, please reply if Golden Lounge added bonus to your account and ask you to reverse your withdrawal and wager more

 

[Seaman63]

I did not recieve funds that I have won following the rules:

I signed up via an affiliate who offered a 50 freespins promo, I think it was at Isis slot.

I did well and won 31.96 credits from these freespins.
My freegames winnings of 31.96 credits were credited to my bonus account correctly. So far, so good.

After this, I fulfilled the wagering requirements about 30x wagering the bonus amount of 31.96 correctly and won 650.00 credits while fullfilling the wagering requirement.

The amount of 650.00 showed as cash balance after fullfilling the wagering requirements.

The withdrawal of my winnings was denied by the Casino because they told me winnings from freespins can never been withdrawn and they moved the 650.00 into my bonus balance again.

Needless to say that I lost everything while trying to fullfill the wagering requirements of 30x 650.00 again


This happens at dec. last year and they never offered any solution about that issue.
Unfortunatly I made the fault to play the 650,00 again to fulfill the WRs.

From my experiece..stay away from Golden lounge.

 

[Shmu800t]

[Max says: this player has attempted to blackmail the casino into forced weekly payments. Such activity is abuse of the forums and won't be tolerated.]

Spoiler

After I managed to withdraw my winnings of around 7000 GBP that were played with a 10% auto bonus they sent this email, it is obvious they are not telling the truth about the system fault letting me to withdraw, they just added this 110 bonus after I withdrew my funds or something like that

this email was sent on the 31/10/08

Dear M,

Thank you for playing at Golden Lounge.

I apologize for the inconvenience, but our system is experiencing some problems and somehow you were able to request your cashout.

However, cashouts cannot be processed if there are still credits in the bonus balance.

As you still have 110 credits in your bonus balance, your cashout had to be reversed back to your account.

I'd suggest you to try out our games until your bonus is back to zero, so that you'll be able to request your winnings withdrawal again.

I thank you for your understanding and please feel free to contact us in case you need any further assistance.

Warm regards,
Michelle
Golden Host


After I wagered more(stupid step) I cashed out again, then they sent another email with a new 100 inside my account(those things can be checked in the playcheck, the casino never denied those facts, crazy as it sounds this is the truth although long time passed I do remember)

So on the 6/11/08 this email was sent

Dear M

Your cashin was reversed back to your Golden Lounge account due to our terms and conditions.

In order to be able to withdraw your winnings you have to reach the wagering requirements that is 30 times the bonus amount. Your bonus balance should be equal to zero. You still have 100 pounds in your bonus balance.

For further information go to:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Warm regards,

Rose
Golden Host



And I gave the slots a try and won more, this time ending 14,000 GBP which wass never paid


Regarding my other accounts at the Microgaming network, I have been playing for along period of time, I will have to check into it further but I think I played in less than 30 Microgaming casinos at all time, I will come with the exact number hopefully later, no problems with any casino all of my accounts are open in the Microgaming Network

 

[vinylweatherman]

Why should it be a problem. I have MORE than the average number of accounts across the network. Naturally, I only have ONE account at any ONE MG casino.

There are easy explanations for accumulating so many accounts over time. Casinos NEVER see their LOYAL players as an asset. Play for a year or two, and you get forgotten, but new casinos come on the scene all the time, and it seems easy to reach VIP status.
There are also many groups that SPAM THE HELL out of their players to join one or more of the other casinos in the group. Remember Trident Lounge - leave the site, it threw a "have you tried King Neptunes" pop-up, and vice versa for when leaving the King Neptunes site. Casino Rewards is another, they are not happy till their players have tried every one of their 14 or so casinos, and even when they have, the invitations STILL come pouring in.

If I am reading this correctly, Golden Lounge are simply adding extra bonuses into the accounts of winners, and then using this as an excuse to pretend the player was mistaken about having reached zero bonus balance.

If this can be proven, (Playcheck might achieve this - this is where you can get details of bonuses added, and it is easy if this happens outside of a session of play).

Another bit of BS from Golden Lounge seems to be their declaration that players flagged on the database are not permitted bonuses, yet the complainant was granted THREE bonuses throughout the unfolding of this tale.

The complainant gave an account of ONLY playing slots, yet the casino is claiming bonus abuse. Rubbish, it is either FRAUD (multiple accounts & playing only slots), or it is bullshit.

Today I was SPAMMED yet again by Golden Lounge, and they moan about players having too many accounts across the network Players would average fewer accounts if casinos:-

1) Stopped SPAMMING uncontrollably (many DO eventually give in & try a free chip/bonus)

2) VALUE your regular players, so they don't start looking for greener pastures, and increasing the average number of accounts per player.


I have noticed that a number of casinos where I have played regularly for YEARS seem to have decided this past couple of months that I no longer exist - familiarity breeds contempt it seems, and I am in need of a desktop overhaul.

There are a number of MGS casinos that seem VERY desperate to "poach" me, I have snail mail CDs aplenty (which I have ignored). Well, make your damn minds up, either you want players to try (and hopefully stay with) as many casinos as possible, or you want players to stick to around a dozen for life and just chuck all those shiny CD Frisbees over the fence.

 

[DiamondGeezer]

This is SCARY.

If an MG casino can add bonus to a player's account like this then it is a very serious incident. Hopefully there is some kind of audit check to ensure casino's can't do this to player's accounts or we may never be able to cash out again.

I don't see what relevence the alleged multi accounting has to do with this adding of bonus. If the casino was sure the account was fraudulent they could have locked it in the normal manner. This adding of bonus suggests they weren't convinced themselves so were hoping the player would lose the balance and the problem would melt away.

Believe me I am no fan of multi accounters. But if an MG can get away with adding bonus funds to a players account and they get away with it then others could try this tactic too.

 

[funeral979]

Any news on this?

 

[Boris303]

IMO you shouldn't have to wait until you withdraw to be labelled a bonus abuser and then have your withdrawal stopped, this works to much in the casinos favour, as you may never manage to withdrawal at all and in that case the casino just takes your money.
There's probably more going on here than we know, but in essence this is a problem the casino could have averted before the player even deposited, so therefore it sounds like the casinos one im going to steer well clear of.

 

[Shmu800t]

No news. I am in process of PM with Max.

I checked my records and could find 14 welcome emails from Micorgaming casinos, I would assume I have less than 20 accounts in the microgaming network at all time.

There were 3 withdrawals, at the first two they added bonuses AFTER I cashed out. The first cashout was made after I played a 10% bonus that was credited auto.

All of these figures can be seen in Playcheck and Transaction details, the only problem they closed my account, does anybody know if I can get the information using a microgaming website if I have the account at Goldenlounge and Password ?

 

[funeral979]

Normal players have on average maybe up to ten or so accounts across the MGS platform. 198 accounts is a bit excessive - and like Nifty29 mentioned - there are only 120 MGS casinos.

The casino is adamant that this is fraudulent activity and violates their terms.

So why did the casino not state this in the beginning? They must have been looking closely at his account in order to keep adding bonuses and then say they haven't met the WR. So I am sure they were well aware of how many accounts they had at other MG casinos. GL probably thought this wouldn't hold water at first so simply preyed on them hoping they would lose with all the additional WR tacked on. Unless there is more to the story, this is just BS.

 

[KasinoKing]

All of these figures can be seen in Playcheck and Transaction details, the only problem they closed my account, does anybody know if I can get the information using a microgaming website if I have the account at Goldenlounge and Password ?

No chance. This info is only available from the casino in question.

Have you Pitched a Bitch yet?

KK

 

[maxd]

Yonks ago, see the first few posts of the thread. Like B said, they are flatly determined that he's a fraudster. I've agreed to take one last stab at it for him. Working on that now.

 

[Shmu800t]

[Max says: this player has attempted to blackmail the casino into forced weekly payments. Such activity is abuse of the forums and won't be tolerated.]

Spoiler

This casino was in the warning section. This casino was new, I can say now they were mixed up, lying, and seems to not know how to handle players.

The so called fraudster deposit 200 to play without a bonus 10% was credited, first cashout was of 7000 GBP (10% bonus), never paid.


Another cashout of around the same amount afterI played more was also denied, the fraudster was required to play more.

Then I withdrew 14,000 GBP and I wait for my cashout to be processed.

They were happy to let me deposit, add bonuses again and again, answering to my emails, when I won they stopped being nice to me and never paid.


The casino always lied in emails they sent, to Max, to me, all lies.


Again the facts I mention can be checked, including their facts like the story about 198 accounts and the other story of 110% bonus 110 bonus email they sent


I have been playing in casinos before and didn't start to gamble online yesterday, I had only one problem and it was with Goldenlounge that again I mentioned was in the warning section until not long ago


Here are some more emails for everybody to judge:
Ooctober 25 2008

Dear M,

Thank you for playing at the Golden Lounge Casino!

As a valued player, I have a special offer for you.

Upon making your second deposit, I will give you a 50% bonus up to 100 credits for you to continue to enjoy the best games around. And if using a web-wallet next time, you'll get an additional 20% bonus, up to 100 credits.

Good luck playing in our casino!

If we can be of any further assistance, please contact us and we will be more than happy to help you.

Kind regards,

Michelle
Golden Host

October 30th


Special for you only (time-sensitive)...

I trust you had a good week so far...

Just a quick update today on an amazing
promotion Golden Lounge is running this
weekend to turn your weekend into a winning
madness!

The promotion is called "Weekend Madness"
and you need to take advantage of it
immediately as soon as it begins on Friday
at 00:00.

You will get up to 200 bonus spins and extra
10% bonus on all your deposits during the
weekend.

Visit the banking page now and make a deposit
to begin warming up for the Weeekend Madness!

That's all for today...

Take care,

- Sophie

on the 31

Dear M

Thank you for playing at Golden Lounge.

I apologize for the inconvenience, but our system is experiencing some problems and somehow you were able to request your cashout.

However, cashouts cannot be processed if there are still credits in the bonus balance.

As you still have 110 credits in your bonus balance, your cashout had to be reversed back to your account.

I'd suggest you to try out our games until your bonus is back to zero, so that you'll be able to request your winnings withdrawal again.

I thank you for your understanding and please feel free to contact us in case you need any further assistance.

Warm regards,
Michelle

6-1108

Wagering requirements

Dear M

Your cashin was reversed back to your Golden Lounge account due to our terms and conditions.

In order to be able to withdraw your winnings you have to reach the wagering requirements that is 30 times the bonus amount. Your bonus balance should be equal to zero. You still have 100 pounds in your bonus balance.

For further information go to:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Warm regards,

Rose
Golden Host

18-11-08

Dear Mr. M

Thank you for contacting our customer service support which I am sure
gave you the best answers you can probably find around the gambling
industry .

After carefully reviewing your Golden Lounge account and your gaming history within the microgaming network,
there was a negative review from our peers apointing your accounts within the network as promotion abuser.
We've identified that, when you played at Golden Lounge, you placed high bets on each of the slot games,
which is also considerate irregular game play.

With that information, we then decided to refund your original deposit of 400 pounds to your neteller account
and your winnings were confiscated.

As we do comply with Gambling regulation , I do encourage you to send your
dispute to Kanawakee Gaming Comission (our regulators). In case they will find us wrong and
that we took advantage on your behalf , your money will be refunded asap.

I wish you all the best.

Sincerely yours ,

James T. King

Head of Finance and Risk

The large bets excuse is not relevant, there was a deposit of 200 and a bonus of 20, the 10% was credited automatically, how can I abuse such a bonus in slots only, I play slots and I like to win big or lose it all, this is why I deposit again and again in a casino I trust, Micorgaming casinos were reputable at that time, why wouldn't I be sured I will be paid ?


I played more, I knew the casino was overwhelmed from the big win and I was stupid and give them extra play again and again and won another 7000 , what bonus abuse are they talking about ? I am not well known at the Microgaming network, I found 14 welcome emails from microgaming casino, I can have more, I still play at Microgaming casinos and my account was opened and I get paid when I win.

 

[funeral979]

We've identified that, when you played at Golden Lounge, you placed high bets on each of the slot games,
which is also considerate irregular game play.

Well I guess that is better than inconsiderate game play

So everyone who places high bets at GL is not welcome. That is good to know!

 

[me_and_ed]

Fraudster or not I still hate these rules, I sure as hell never get escorted out of any of my local B&M casino's for betting large on slots.

 

[GOCC]

So i take it if he is on this "List" as claimed, he has been notified of such and told he cant have any bonuses.

Yes, they say they share info et al, but if the player doesnt know, and he is awarded a bonus, surely he is to expect he is good to go?

 

[kavaman]

Cmon. The guy has only one account at goldenlounge, right, if multiple accounts there were found, then that would be a different case.
He played basically without a bonus (10% that he did not want), and the casino kept increasing the wagering, by adding 100$ bonuses to his account after a cashout, and claiming he had to wager more to cash-in.
If the guy was a fraudster i would think there would be better ways then to play slots without a bonus, don't you agree?
Im taking the players side on this unless he has multiple accounts on goldenlounge, and i hope this gets resolved. I know max and meister are doing a great job, and unless player fraud can be proven better lets hope the player gets paid.

kava

 

[maxd]

No offense K-man but unless you've got insider information on this you're basically pulling your conclusions out of thin air.

As I've said, this has gone back to the casino peeps, they've given me their file on it and it's in the queue for me to deal with. I suggest we let the process run it's course instead of drawing uninformed, arbitrary conclusions.

 

[maxd]

Ok, I've gone through the info given me and there are several deciding factors here. The bottom line is that there is a body of evidence against the player AND the player has tried to blackmail the casino into making weekly payments to him.

The casino's decision was to negate the winnings and boot the player. As far as I can tell this had nothing to do with bonus/no-bonus issues and everything to do with pre-existing conditions regarding the player's identity and activities. I support the casino's decision.

We're done with this issue. The player is welcome to take his case elsewhere.

Further posts by this player attempting to pressure or coerce the casino will not be tolerated.

 

[Pinababy69]

Hey Max, is there any chance you could clarify if the player in question had multiple accounts at Golden Lounge directly? Or had a history of multiple accounts at other casinos across the MG network? If not...that's cool. Just curious. Hope my question is coming through okay...I'm wondering if it's like an industry type blacklist (ie. fraud or whatever), or a GL specific issue? Thanks either way.

 

[maxd]

I don't think it's any surprise that the MG network has a shared database of player data. I don't believe I ever asked or was told whether he had multiple accounts at GL itself.

I did mention early on the 198 accounts business and that seems to have been based on a misunderstanding. When the first case came up the case handler at GL told me that. Since then the people involved have changed and that specific piece of information has morphed a bit. Suffice it to say that that player did not personally have 198 accounts on the MG network.

Multiple accounts at GL or not, it doesn't really matter. There were plenty of other account abuse factors in play and those were what I based my decision on. Plus the blackmail thing, of course.

Due to the nature of the casino's security issues I can't be more specific than that.

 

[kavaman]

No max, i don't have any insider info. I was just pointing out my opinion, which i obviously shouln't have because i dont have all the facts.
It just seemed to ME that the casino was doing dirty tricks by adding further 100$ and therefore making the player wager more and more.
The blackmail thing, well thats another thing and naturally NOT tolerated.

kava

 

[Shmu800t]

[Max says: this player has attempted to blackmail the casino into forced weekly payments. Such activity is abuse of the forums and won't be tolerated.]

Spoiler

response to Max.



First you mentioned it is not about the bonus, then why they sent the email about the large bets in slots as an excuse of the no pay ?

I believe there was not blackmailing, it is part of their trick and lies, they were always like that and probably never change, just like the 198 accounts

Regarding the blackmailing, I will attach here all the emails I have ever sent Goldenlounge in this regard, I have to say I was really really really mad at some periods of this dispute.

The reason I was mad is the lies that were published by the casino starting from the bonus issue thru the 198 accounts which is not true and not even close to the truth.

I thought a 14,000 GBP might be a large sum, and thought if I will be flexible being put into a payment would make it easier for them to change their mind, nothing to do with blackmailing.

My stupidity from the beginning, made me play, gamble, agree to everythig they ask and unfortunately caused everybody to accuse me with bad things I never did, I learned my lesson , no more gambling online hopefully no more at all

Everybody can look at the emails and judge, all I know there are many lies and one truth, the truth is only one and unfortunately the lie won.

Here are the emails

Hi


The facts at the emails are not true, if they were true the story was different.


1. I received a 10% bonus, wagered and cashed in , the further bonuses were credited AFTER I already cleared the bonus and cash in, this info can't be denied , it is in the play check and Microgaming can confirm it, what you mentioned is incorrect.


2. I am not a well known bonuses abuser, this is another false accusation, all of my microgaming accounts are open and in a good status, I also came to play WITHOUT a bonus at your casino and was credited an unwanted 10% , what bonus abuser would play with a 10% bonus?


check your records again, I played with a 10% bonus and reached 7000 GBP and cashed in, after you added all kind of bonuses to make me play more




You were a new casino back then and made mistakes, I accept that but please enough with it


Regards
M




Dear Sirs


I can't take those lies anymore, how much can I take ? Why I have to be so mad about this case such long time passed, you were a new casino and you made mistakes, please correct them, stop telling lies, first you told Max at casinomeister i have 198 while I dont have even 10% of that amount, what is it here that you are doing, this is demonization.


I played with a 10% unwanted bonus and cashin my first cashout of 7000 GBP, this can not be denied, it is in the playtech , you know it ,microgaming know it, I know it, only 10% auto bonus that I never claimed, I trusted your casino, I didnt come to get bonuses but to play and get paid.


Further bonuses were credited AFTER I cashout, after the bonus was already cleared if I can call a 10% bonus.


After that you based on a good trust it was stupid of me but I wagered more for all the bonuses you put in order to reverse my cashouts, I managed to win more and boom no pay, what a surprise.


I AM NOT A BONUS ABUSER stop telling Casinoemister and whole worlds those untrue facts


Regards
M




Dear Sirs

I wish to settle this issue with the casino, I already intervene Casinomeister forum and I want to clarify I am not here to give you the bad publicity, I am still holding my horses and being patient although it has been a long time, if you leave me no choice I am really sorry but this issue will be publish in many online forums.

The details you mentioned are not correct, if they were correct I would agree with the casino

1. I got only 10% , all subsequent bonuses were credited only AFTER I managed to win and cashout

2. I don't have 198 in the microgaming network, I could find 14 welcme emails I might have few more accounts that I cant recall but 198 is not correct

3. I am not a famous bonus abuser, I came to play without a bonus, I am a loyal player in many casino, the 10% that was credited was a bonus I never claimed, It was credited automatically


Check your records again, and you agree with me and please pay my winnings.

Regards
M



Mr. M

Our security and fraud departments have checked your gaming history and
we are sorry to inform you that we have been forced to confiscate your cash-in request.

As per casino’s Bonus Account Terms and Conditions at www.goldenlounge.com/terms.asp#Bonus

Item 12: Observations of playing patterns such as the playing for deliberate minimum risk, equal, zero margin or hedge betting may not be considered as playing in the appropriate spirit for the purposes of meeting bonus wagering requirements. Should the Casino deem that these practices have been utilized for the specific purpose of meeting wagering requirements, the casino reserves the right to withhold any cashins and/or confiscate all winnings.

And item 13: Other practices of playing behaviour which may lead to the casino withholding cashins and/or confiscating all winnings include, but are not limited to, placing single bets whereby the wager consists of the majority of the total available balance and the bonus balance contributing to a significant portion of that balance. Should the casino deem that practices such as this have been utilized, the casino reserves the right to withhold any cashins and/or confiscate all winnings.

The amount of 400 pounds you deposited on your Golden Lounge account, was refunded to your NETeller account. You will no longer receive any bonuses or free games from Golden Lounge.

From this point all communication with the casino must be done in writing (via email).

Sincerely,


- Show quoted text -


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Golden Host <[email protected]>
Date: Nov 14, 2008 6:10 PM
Subject: Golden Lounge Withdrawal Request
To: [email protected]

Mr. M

Our security and fraud departments have checked your gaming history and
we are sorry to inform you that we have been forced to confiscate your cash-in request.

As per casino’s Bonus Account Terms and Conditions at www.goldenlounge.com/terms.asp#Bonus

Item 12: Observations of playing patterns such as the playing for deliberate minimum risk, equal, zero margin or hedge betting may not be considered as playing in the appropriate spirit for the purposes of meeting bonus wagering requirements. Should the Casino deem that these practices have been utilized for the specific purpose of meeting wagering requirements, the casino reserves the right to withhold any cashins and/or confiscate all winnings.

And item 13: Other practices of playing behaviour which may lead to the casino withholding cashins and/or confiscating all winnings include, but are not limited to, placing single bets whereby the wager consists of the majority of the total available balance and the bonus balance contributing to a significant portion of that balance. Should the casino deem that practices such as this have been utilized, the casino reserves the right to withhold any cashins and/or confiscate all winnings.

The amount of 400 pounds you deposited on your Golden Lounge account, was refunded to your NETeller account. You will no longer receive any bonuses or free games from Golden Lounge.

From this point all communication with the casino must be done in writing (via email).

Sincerely,

J
Security Manager
Golden Lounge
[email protected]
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show details 11/23/08 Reply



Dear Mr.
My name is M . , account name:

I am writing to you regarding the cancellation of my winnings; and following our conversation on the telephone when you didn't accept my argument.

I played at your casino because I like to gamble from time to time, and I thought that your casino looked like it was a good place to play.

After my first deposit I received an honest bonus and I appreciated it. With my second deposit I didn't ask to receive any bonus, I just deposited funds so that I could have fun and try my luck, but you added 20 pounds to my 200. I had good fortune that day and I won a nice amount of money. I then tried to make a withdrawal of my winnings as normal. After a couple of days, you sent me mail that said that you had some problem and you asked me to clear 100 pounds in my bonus account, that had magically appeared, and I did so.

Then, unfairly, you asked me to make another wager of 3000, for another unwanted bonus that you sent me, when you returned my money to the casino.

I did as you asked, without argument and tried to make a withdrawal again.

Now after all this you are trying to say things happened differently, which is causing you not to pay out my winnings.

I consider that this has been a misunderstanding, and that after you check again, I believe you will find that I am not a bonus only player and not a player who doesn't take risks. Therefore I really believe that if you are an honest casino, you will pay the winnings that are owed to me.

I want to be clear with you that I am not prepared to give up on pursuing the winnings that I won honestly. Even if I have to call every person involved in gambling abroad within the online casino business, I will do it.


Best Regards

 

[Jufo]

Having read through this thread I didn't find any reason why the player shouldn't be paid. He didn't have multiple accounts at the casino, didn't abuse bonuses (even if someone argues that "bonus abuse" is a valid excuse to void winnings), he didn't have 198 accounts, adding unwanted bonuses was an obvious shady move by the casino, and the blackmail thing seems to be just casino's exaggeration. After all the casino is trying to get away from paying 12k so why wouldn't they exaggerate a little, like they did with the 198 accounts thing. Unless more information is presented here (up to you Maxd) I think the player should be paid.

 

[maxd]

Having read through this thread I didn't find any reason why the player shouldn't be paid. .... Unless more information is presented here (up to you Maxd) I think the player should be paid.

No offense, but that's not for you to decide. As I've clearly stated I've been given information from casino that convinces me that their decision was reasonable. This is the second time in the past few months that I've been through this issue, the most recent at the special request of the OP who promised to abide by my decision this second time around.

I remind you that the PAB process is not open for public scrutiny for many reasons, casino security being one of them. I can't and won't disclose that internal information.

If you or the OP or whomever wish to continue debating this you're welcome to find somewhere else to do so. As I've said, we're done here. End of story. Just to make that perfectly clear I'm now closing this thread.

 

[The Dude]

I'm in the process of reviewing this and Max is right - it's a bogus PAB.

Hey Max, is there any chance you could clarify if the player in question had multiple accounts at Golden Lounge directly? Or had a history of multiple accounts at other casinos across the MG network? If not...that's cool. Just curious. Hope my question is coming through okay...I'm wondering if it's like an industry type blacklist (ie. fraud or whatever), or a GL specific issue? Thanks either way.

The player is connected to a fraud ring of several players who are associated to 198 accounts across the board. It's not GL specific.

Having read through this thread I didn't find any reason why the player shouldn't be paid. He didn't have multiple accounts at the casino, didn't abuse bonuses (even if someone argues that "bonus abuse" is a valid excuse to void winnings), he didn't have 198 accounts, adding unwanted bonuses was an obvious shady move by the casino, and the blackmail thing seems to be just casino's exaggeration. After all the casino is trying to get away from paying 12k so why wouldn't they exaggerate a little, like they did with the 198 accounts thing. Unless more information is presented here (up to you Maxd) I think the player should be paid.

This is the problem when you as a member are not given 100% of the information that we receive. You will tend to side with the disgruntled player because he is able to provide you with anything that he wishes to provide. Our hands are tied - we can only tell you so much.

It's up to you to decide who do you trust more. Trust this player who has no history at Casinomeister except for this complaint and has nothing to lose whatsoever. Or trust Max and me who do our damnedest to come to a fair conclusion? That's your choice.

The PAB service is severily abused by fraudulent claims. Several years ago it was pretty simple. Most of the complaints were about slow pays or no pays from half-assed casinos. Player fraud was rare. But player fraud has virtually exploded big time, and the PAB service is a magnet to these people. They have nothing to lose but the time it takes to bang off some emails.

I could snap my fingers and shut down the PAB service today - but I won't because there are some good players out there who need a place to voice their issues. The fraudulant PABs are just something we have to deal with. That's just the way it is.