General Election 2019 thread

[goatwack]

Latest scripted polls 'suggest' Keir Starmer's storming into a massive lead in Labour leader popularity stakes, which is the equivalent of 'going for a paddle' in a paper boat

Still, his likeability (that was hard to type without cracking uppdpfnpbd) is almost - if not level currently - with Boris/ Doris, which given the latter's at a low point from his Corona handling clusterf*ck is no mean feat.

All we need is for the PM to have a few more affairs and drag us into a random war and then we may see parity at last!

Best thing about Labour now, though, is that there's definite improvement in their voting appeal. One doesn't need to be drunk, high and senile to actually put an 'x' on the Ballot paper for upcoming GEs. Just drunk.

 

[Luckyscouser45]

Latest scripted polls 'suggest' Keir Starmer's storming into a massive lead in Labour leader popularity stakes, which is the equivalent of 'going for a paddle' in a paper boat

Still, his likeability (that was hard to type without cracking uppdpfnpbd) is almost - if not level currently - with Boris/ Doris, which given the latter's at a low point from his Corona handling clusterf*ck is no mean feat.

All we need is for the PM to have a few more affairs and drag us into a random war and then we may see parity at last!

Best thing about Labour now, though, is that there's definite improvement in their voting appeal. One doesn't need to be drunk, high and senile to actually put an 'x' on the Ballot paper for upcoming GEs. Just drunk.

I’m a labour voter and the only thing I like about Starmer is the way he makes Boris squirm in the commons. but there’s something about Starmer that rubs me the wrong way he is Tony Blair in disguise and he will not appeal to people in the places labour lost at the last election champagne socialist springs to mind I see him appealing to London but not the places that were once labour heartlands

 

[goatwack]

I’m a labour voter and the only thing I like about Starmer is the way he makes Boris squirm in the commons. but there’s something about Starmer that rubs me the wrong way he is Tony Blair in disguise and he will not appeal to people in the places labour lost at the last election champagne socialist springs to mind I see him appealing to London but not the places that were once labour heartlands

My sympathies

My thoughts and prayers go out to you during this difficult time

 

[Mr_Slot5]

I’m a labour voter and the only thing I like about Starmer is the way he makes Boris squirm in the commons. but there’s something about Starmer that rubs me the wrong way he is Tony Blair in disguise and he will not appeal to people in the places labour lost at the last election champagne socialist springs to mind I see him appealing to London but not the places that were once labour heartlands

Exactly how I see him too. He has all the smarm of Blair and that, for me, is a massive turn off. Snake oil salesman is how I'd describe him.

 

[Luckyscouser45]

Exactly how I see him too. He has all the smarm of Blair and that, for me, is a massive turn off. Snake oil salesman is how I'd describe him.

Yes agree 100% the next couple of years will be interesting

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Exactly how I see him too. He has all the smarm of Blair and that, for me, is a massive turn off. Snake oil salesman is how I'd describe him.

Have you actually seen Starmer's record over the years? In particular he did a lot of pro bono (i.e. unpaid) work when he was a barrister, but yes he was well paid as a barrister and yes he accumulated some modest wealth, but when the right wing press tried to do a hit piece on him the best they could come up with was that he bought a field for his disabled mum so she could see move the donkeys from her donkey sanctuary to it, and still see them out of her window.

He comes from a thoroughly working class background, his dad was a toolmaker and his mum was a nurse. He excelled at school and by passing the 11+ got access to a grammar school and went from there to college and university, and then took up work as a barrister.

In many ways he's exactly what we want the working classes to be able to do, isn't he? Get access to a decent education, show what you're capable of, and be successful in your chosen field.

I mean, do we want the working classes to be poor and downtrodden forever, or do we want them to be able to have access to opportunities to progress in life?

It seems so weird to me that when someone from a working class background becomes successful, we then immediately seek to discredit them as being 'champagne socialists'.

 

[Luckyscouser45]

Have you actually seen Starmer's record over the years? In particular he did a lot of pro bono (i.e. unpaid) work when he was a barrister, but yes he was well paid as a barrister and yes he accumulated some modest wealth, but when the right wing press tried to do a hit piece on him the best they could come up with was that he bought a field for his disabled mum so she could see move the donkeys from her donkey sanctuary to it, and still see them out of her window.

He comes from a thoroughly working class background, his dad was a toolmaker and his mum was a nurse. He excelled at school and by passing the 11+ got access to a grammar school and went from there to college and university, and then took up work as a barrister.

In many ways he's exactly what we want the working classes to be able to do, isn't he? Get access to a decent education, show what you're capable of, and be successful in your chosen field.

I mean, do we want the working classes to be poor and downtrodden forever, or do we want them to be able to have access to opportunities to progress in life?

It seems so weird to me that when someone from a working class background becomes successful, we then immediately seek to discredit them as being 'champagne socialists'.

Oh come on not slaying him for becoming successful he’s in the trilateral commission he doesn’t appeal to me in Liverpool or the family all life long labour voters can’t get as bread and butter as that if me and my family And neighbors etc feel this way then that is a small clue that he’s not going to appeal and he won’t appeal to people in other labour heartlands he is a Tory in disguise same way Tony Blair was. Funny how the Murdoch rags like him... why is that he is not real labour it’s crazy how the only way to get in power is to be in the middle and abandon true labour he probably will get in also he doesn’t support black lives and is a Israel fan boy no thanks

 

[pinnit2014]

I’m a labour voter and the only thing I like about Starmer is the way he makes Boris squirm in the commons. but there’s something about Starmer that rubs me the wrong way he is Tony Blair in disguise and he will not appeal to people in the places labour lost at the last election champagne socialist springs to mind I see him appealing to London but not the places that were once labour heartlands

You're only as good as who you're playing against i suppose. Hard not to look good when your opponent is incoherent on a good day. You can look better though when up against Gove - now, that's a snake oil, uhmm, ahh, salesman.

Labour have had some truly awful leaders in recent times, all for various reasons, so i suppose you don't need to have much about you to stand out. He doesn't quite have the psychotic charisma of Blair.

Transforming the Party and removing the radical left will be a far bigger challenge (i don't think the Corbyn disciples particularly like him) - I don't even know if that's possible. Hard to know where to start in a party still spit between Blairites and Corbyn fruit loops.

 

[goatwack]

Well first thing he did under his rule was purge the likes of Long-Bailey, who is Corbyn 2.0

She was obnoxious though to be fair

 

[Luckyscouser45]

You're only as good as who you're playing against i suppose. Hard not to look good when your opponent is incoherent on a good day. You can look better though when up against Gove - now, that's a snake oil, uhmm, ahh, salesman.

Labour have had some truly awful leaders in recent times, all for various reasons, so i suppose you don't need to have much about you to stand out. He doesn't quite have the psychotic charisma of Blair.

Transforming the Party and removing the radical left will be a far bigger challenge (i don't think the Corbyn disciples particularly like him) - I don't even know if that's possible. Hard to know where to start in a party still spit between Blairites and Corbyn fruit loops.

Rishi Sunak will be the next Tory leader and he will be a tough opponent he has charisma and the public like him I agree though the Labour Party is split Massively and the next couple of years it’s gonna be interesting to see the outcome x

 

[goatwack]

It's hard to dislike Rishi Sunak, he doesn't have the flippancy of Boris, has a calm demeanour and is relatively relatable, as relatable as one of the Etonite "Slap me with the wet towel in the showers Timothy" can be to a serf like me

And even better than that, he actually seems like a competent politician!! Rare in these dark times

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Yes 'Dishy Rishi' is certainly the one to watch, the Tories are notoriously ruthless when it comes to jettisoning leaders who are deemed to be past their useful shelf life, and let's face it, Boris is already fucked in that regard.

It turns out that having a prime minister who looks like a tramp who's just fallen out of bed isn't a great long term option for a political party.

 

[dunover]

Yes 'Dishy Rishi' is certainly the one to watch, the Tories are notoriously ruthless when it comes to jettisoning leaders who are deemed to be past their useful shelf life, and let's face it, Boris is already fucked in that regard.

It turns out that having a prime minister who looks like a tramp who's just fallen out of bed isn't a great long term option for a political party.

He'll get the street drinker vote though?
The Liebore party is still too full of toxic neo-Marxists and hard-core socialists to be electable. When they learn that Britain doesn't ever elect socialist governments, they'll have a chance.
I wouldn't read too much into this '10 year government' crap as the large Tory majority is at least 50% 'borrowed' seats from when Labour betrayed their voters over Brexit, so effectively the swing Starman will need is half of that.

 

[dunover]

It's hard to dislike Rishi Sunak, he doesn't have the flippancy of Boris, has a calm demeanour and is relatively relatable, as relatable as one of the Etonite "Slap me with the wet towel in the showers Timothy" can be to a serf like me

And even better than that, he actually seems like a competent politician!! Rare in these dark times

A Freudian slip?

 

[Mr_Slot5]

I've been really impressed by Sunak. Seems competent all round and is actually quite likeable. Definitely future PM material.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Not a perfect fit for this thread, but it's UK politics stuff, not exactly comfortable reading.

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[goatwack]

There'll......be vast amounts of unemployment after the world's economy froze for the best part of a year? That is truly shocking and revelatory, who knew!

And despite what some like to profess, there isn't a single child in our country that through help in whatever capacity doesn't/ can't have access to food, we're not a Third-World country, despite the clear wish of some.

Neither is anyone forcing people to load up on credit cards, useless debts or premium Sky TV packages, if people choose to encumber themselves with needless debt burdens then what do they want, a medal? I don't have credit cards, I don't have kids, don't have a car & most certainly don't have a mortgage.

But please, carry on with the Doomsday scenarios. I'm looking forward to the part where the hell-hounds drag people kicking & screaming into the pit of Tartarus

 

[Playford7]

There'll......be vast amounts of unemployment after the world's economy froze for the best part of a year? That is truly shocking and revelatory, who knew!

And despite what some like to profess, there isn't a single child in our country that through help in whatever capacity doesn't/ can't have access to food, we're not a Third-World country, despite the clear wish of some.

Neither is anyone forcing people to load up on credit cards, useless debts or premium Sky TV packages, if people choose to encumber themselves with needless debt burdens then what do they want, a medal? I don't have credit cards, I don't have kids, don't have a car & most certainly don't have a mortgage.

But please, carry on with the Doomsday scenarios. I'm looking forward to the part where the hell-hounds drag people kicking & screaming into the pit of Tartarus

Turnur will be waiting for said heathens in the eternal pit of damnation

 

[goatwack]

 

[mack341]

I hope Boris knows what he is doing, and it won't be too damaging to uk plc long term; I wonder if Biden wins whether the issues around Huawei change or if it's a matter beyond party politics, and there is an agreed consensus.

 

[dealer wins]

If Biden wins, USA wont be worth bothering with a trade deal lol unless we can supply riot gear

 

[Playford7]

If Biden wins, USA wont be worth bothering with a trade deal lol unless we can supply riot gear

Sleepy joe won’t.
We can have a new MAGA 2020! Thread here to replace the North Korea (sorry trump bashing thread) once the orange god triumphs again... ohhh it’ll be majestic, it’ll be a thread like casinomeister has never seen.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I've been very impressed by how the Tories handled the A Level results situation.

All it took was seeing it fail in Scotland, doing it anyway, breaking the hearts of thousands of distressed kids in the middle of a pandemic and days of everybody calling them dickheads for them to do the right thing. Respect.

There isn't a single thing they've touched so far that hasn't turned to shit.

Even The Daily Mail are impressed.

'Predicted grade versus actual grade.'

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Also, this.

 

[goatwack]

Just shows you though, had they implemented the original idea, instead of panicking like they did with everything else, we may have seen a fairer outcome for students based on merit, not picking a number out of a hat

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[ChopleyIOM]

That article is over four months old and relates to degrees, not sure what it has to do with the A Level situation?

Anyway, onto A Levels, where we are now is they've reverted to Centre Assessed Grades. Scotland had already done it after realising how much the algorithm fucked it up, and Wales and NI followed suit, No 10 finally made the decision to do the same for England. (After Gavin Williamson gave an absolute 100% cast iron guarantee last Friday that he wouldn't do exactly the thing he has now done.)

The moderated grades were massively, grossly unfair. CAGs are not perfect but they are the least worst option, although even now it's too late for some students because their places at their first choice Universities have often already gone to someone else.

Just another example of getting it horribly wrong and then winging it by this shambolic, disorganised government.

(There's plenty of information out there about the algorithm and how it worked, and it soon becomes painfully obvious what a travesty it is.)

 

[paul7388]

And i am sure the country would be in a fine state and none of these messes would have happened if Corbyn had gained power.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Yes but we do not have a Corbyn-led Labour government, we have a Johnson-led Conservative government, hence they are the government that's being judged based on how it's governing.

Saying, 'Oh but I bet Corbyn would have been worse' is (a) Not exactly a shining endorsement of the Tories* (b) Entirely conjecture and (c) Not even remotely relevant.

* I mean, you're literally saying that the Tories are a bit better than someone who you think is totally shit.

 

[goatwack]

That article is over four months old and relates to degrees, not sure what it has to do with the A Level situation?

Anyway, onto A Levels, where we are now is they've reverted to Centre Assessed Grades. Scotland had already done it after realising how much the algorithm fucked it up, and Wales and NI followed suit, No 10 finally made the decision to do the same for England. (After Gavin Williamson gave an absolute 100% cast iron guarantee last Friday that he wouldn't do exactly the thing he has now done.)

The moderated grades were massively, grossly unfair. CAGs are not perfect but they are the least worst option, although even now it's too late for some students because their places at their first choice Universities have often already gone to someone else.

Just another example of getting it horribly wrong and then winging it by this shambolic, disorganised government.

(There's plenty of information out there about the algorithm and how it worked, and it soon becomes painfully obvious what a travesty it is.)

Don't get stroppy with me young man!

I think it's quite clear that pre-Covid panic the idea was to hold exams remotely, as opposed to cancelling them outright and doling out made-up grades. So no need to get snarky about it

As you were

 

[cncas2123]

I don’t think it matters too much what the government does/ doesn’t do in the current situation and within the confines of a worldwide pandemic. It seems to me that they decided to listen to the so called professionals, the exam boards and education regulators but when it became apparent that the formulas used meant jack shit they then decided to revert to teacher grading.
For me the fact that they can change policy if it is for the better is a sign of good government, but some people will never be happy and will always want to criticise.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I don’t think it matters too much what the government does/ doesn’t do in the current situation and within the confines of a worldwide pandemic. It seems to me that they decided to listen to the so called professionals, the exam boards and education regulators but when it became apparent that the formulas used meant jack shit they then decided to revert to teacher grading.
For me the fact that they can change policy if it is for the better is a sign of good government, but some people will never be happy and will always want to criticise.

They had literally months to prepare for this, they were warned, multiple times, what the algorithm was going to do, and they had the clearest shot across the bows possible from Scotland as to what was coming down the track, and they just stood there and let it hit them.

They've 'changed policy' in the same way a man who's doused himself with petrol and then held a lit match to himself decides to jump into a swimming pool. i.e. In a panic and under extreme duress, to get out of a mess entirely of their own creation.

Also, the formulas didn't mean 'jack shit', the formulas actively and aggressively punished exceptional students from disadvantaged backgrounds, whilst conveniently propping up under-achievers at prestigious independent schools.

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[ChopleyIOM]

Don't get stroppy with me young man!

I think it's quite clear that pre-Covid panic the idea was to hold exams remotely, as opposed to cancelling them outright and doling out made-up grades. So no need to get snarky about it

As you were

Erm, the decision was taken to cancel all exams back in March, old chap.

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[goatwack]

Erm, the decision was taken to cancel all exams back in March, old chap.

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I think you're misunderstanding me. My point was that testing them remotely, as opposed to not testing them at all, was the original thinking. So I'm agreeing with you.

Point being the 'let's give them a grade out of a hat' way they've handled it is woeful, as opposed to a) Remote Exams or b) delaying exams until a more 'suitable' time. Though I believe as it stands, students can accept the grades as they are, redo the exams and a third option which I forget

 

[cncas2123]

They had literally months to prepare for this, they were warned, multiple times, what the algorithm was going to do, and they had the clearest shot across the bows possible from Scotland as to what was coming down the track, and they just stood there and let it hit them.

They've 'changed policy' in the same way a man who's doused himself with petrol and then held a lit match to himself decides to jump into a swimming pool. i.e. In a panic and under extreme duress, to get out of a mess entirely of their own creation.

Also, the formulas didn't mean 'jack shit', the formulas actively and aggressively punished exceptional students from disadvantaged backgrounds, whilst conveniently propping up under-achievers at prestigious independent schools.

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Yes, theyfollowed the advice of the “experts” rather than the media, and when they realised that the advice they had been given was wrong they changed to what they felt was the best option for all students.
Again, this is a sign of mature government that is willing to correct mistakes rather than keep their head down and see it through.
Don’t see what the problem is to be honest , they’ve done the right thing.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I just..... I don't.... I can't.....

I honestly cannot comprehend how you can reconcile what's actually happened with your statement there cncas, it's just so disconnected with the reality of events and government action (or inaction) that I'm genuinely at a bit of a loss.

It's always everyone else's fault except the actual government. I was having a discussion with someone about three months ago with regard to the UK having the highest excess death rate in Europe during the Covid crisis and he basically responded with, 'Well the government are trying their best you know' and I was like, sheesh, that's something we say about a toddler who's trying to learn to walk and keeps falling over.

It's fine for the toddler. It's not fine for a government.

 

[Mr_Slot5]

All I see is the typical loony lefty anti Tory brigade doing what they do best.

No-one is claiming that the government have been saints throughout this pandemic but I highly doubt any other government would have been either.

I also think some people trivialise the sheer difficulty of trying to walk a tightrope between protecting the population and not fatally damaging the economy. Seems there are a few on here who feel they could walk into the job and be perfect...of course, they probably could with the benefit of hindsight.

Most 'backtracking' by the government has been due to realigning themselves to the facts of a dynamic situation. As the info/science has changed they have had to change tack. I'm very surprised (not) that some of the self confessed and enlightened 'intellects' cannot (will not) see this.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

You know the UK not only had the highest excess death rate in Europe during Covid, but also took the biggest hit to GDP?

So the government failed in both protecting the population AND not damaging the economy.

Did the Tories just get really, really unlucky, or is it possible they've been a bit crap?

 

[ChopleyIOM]

All I see is the typical loony lefty anti Tory brigade doing what they do best.

'Typical loony left anti Tory brigade'

 

[Sidmanaman73]

'Typical loony left anti Tory brigade'

View attachment 139539

View attachment 139537

They've got an 80 seat majority to play with. Any moderately centralist tory was disposed of before the last election and replaced seemingly by geniuses such as the ex fireplace salesman in the article above. They can ignore whom they want and do what they please as we can see with Dominic Cummings setting about the civil service like a bullied child getting revenge on his tormentors. These clowns need to buck up and show some leadership. We desperately need it.

 

[Mr_Slot5]

You know the UK not only had the highest excess death rate in Europe during Covid, but also took the biggest hit to GDP?

So the government failed in both protecting the population AND not damaging the economy.

Did the Tories just get really, really unlucky, or is it possible they've been a bit crap?

But it has been stated many times, when this is all over, it's likely most countries will level out on par with one another in terms of the numbers/percentages. Every country is heading to the same destination, just at different speeds.

For example we are actually doing a good job at suppressing the virus where other European countries are seeing a rise in the rate of infection and hospital admissions.

This government has kept millions of people in work, although some will unfortunately lose their jobs, many have been saved. This government has also funded Oxford University to the hilt to get this vaccine created and manufactured...a vaccine that a myriad of other countries around the world are now sourcing from us.

I'm sorry but there is a culture here in the UK of the champagne socialists blaming the government for absolutely everything. Your blind hatred of the Tories clouds your critical thinking abilities.

 

[X-Raided]

Trump is gonna mop the floor with Biden's face, even if the Democrats don't allow Sleepy Joe to debate because they know that he'll get manhandled.. It's a lose/lose situation for the obstructionist left.

 

[Sidmanaman73]

Ultimately, that depends on what Ghislaine Maxwell knows and what gets out before November. Trump, Clinton, Prince Andrew and countless others having to defend their actions once it turns out that Epstein Island was a paedo free for all. If they can keep that out the press, always a chance of a second Trump term.

 

[X-Raided]

Ultimately, that depends on what Ghislaine Maxwell knows and what gets out before November. Trump, Clinton, Prince Andrew and countless others having to defend their actions once it turns out that Epstein Island was a paedo free for all. If they can keep that out the press, always a chance of a second Trump term.

The ones that should be the most afraid is pedophile Hollywood that Epstein was connected to. Maxwell has jack-shit on Trump.

 

[mack341]

Trump seems quite relaxed to me atm, I think he knows Biden may struggle to manage the debates, and the ongoing violence in (democrat run) places like portland is winning rather than losing votes.

 

[X-Raided]

Trump seems quite relaxed to me atm, I think he knows Biden may struggle to manage the debates, and the ongoing violence in (democrat run) places like portland is winning rather than losing votes.

After Trump wins the election, the Kung Flu.. Chinese Virus will disappear and so will the idiots that are being paid to protest.. Just like how "ISIS" miraculously disappeared like cockroaches after he set foot into office.. All of a sudden, we never heard about ISIS again..

 

[Sidmanaman73]

In truth, plenty of people have been gunning for him for some time now and he is coated in teflon; nothing sticks. Cohen's book is out next month. Should be an intriguing read, given he supposedly knows where the bodies are buried. If he can steer through that, it'll be closer than the polls suggest currently.

 

[X-Raided]

Come on, man!

 

[ChopleyIOM]

But it has been stated many times, when this is all over, it's likely most countries will level out on par with one another in terms of the numbers/percentages. Every country is heading to the same destination, just at different speeds.

For example we are actually doing a good job at suppressing the virus where other European countries are seeing a rise in the rate of infection and hospital admissions.

This government has kept millions of people in work, although some will unfortunately lose their jobs, many have been saved. This government has also funded Oxford University to the hilt to get this vaccine created and manufactured...a vaccine that a myriad of other countries around the world are now sourcing from us.

I'm sorry but there is a culture here in the UK of the champagne socialists blaming the government for absolutely everything. Your blind hatred of the Tories clouds your critical thinking abilities.

With respect Mr_Slot you keep saying stuff like this but it isn't backed up by the evidence, the facts, and the statistics.

It is true that some countries are now seeing spikes in infections and hospital admissions, but this isn't leading to any significant surge in deaths. The UK's excess death rate during the height of the pandemic was the worst in the EU, and nothing is going to retrospectively change that. It's particularly unforgivable for the UK because we had the clearest and starkest warning possible from Italy, who were a few weeks ahead of us. (And I'm sure we all remember how utterly blase Johnson was about it at the time, and indeed allowed the Cheltenham Festival to go ahead.)

The furlough scheme was an impressive and timely intervention from the government, no doubt about it, although it's no coincidence that the Treasury is headed up by Rishi Sunak, who is an intelligent and competent politician (something of a rarity on the Tory front benches).

With particular reference to the A Level results, they were warned, multiple times, from multiple sources, what was going to happen, and they did nothing about it.

This government's modus operandi is to react in a panic, time and time again. They have no foresight and a complete inability to behave in a proactive manner.

No one blames the UK government for Covid-19, we CAN blame the government for its shambolic response to it. Similarly with the A Level results, Covid wasn't their fault, but the exams were cancelled months ago, they had plenty of time to prepare for this shit.

As for 'champagne socialists', this is the front page of The Times today.....

 

[ChopleyIOM]

This is significant.

When a Tory leader loses the Mail, middle England isn’t far behind. Johnson may be out sooner than we think

 

[Mr_Slot5]

This is significant.

When a Tory leader loses the Mail, middle England isn’t far behind. Johnson may be out sooner than we think

View attachment 139650

Except, a lot of people now see the media for what it is...which is why its manipulation has been working less and less over recent years.

The Mail has been trying to do a hatchet job on him for weeks...which probably means something is going on there behind the scenes. Seems someone with a bit of clout is having a say.