Enhanced due diligence at All British Casino

aceking123

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
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Mar 4, 2008
Location
uk
Hey AK!

Thanks for the response.

I’m not sure I’ve flaked over anything. I’m not going to get into detail on how a casino finances work but the changes are not about greed. It’s about survival for UK regulated and licences operators.

I know you don’t believe me, but we are blocking players regardless of withdrawal and the cost of all the additional due diligence checks involved with that have to be covered. I can say with my hand on my heart that the maths simply don’t work at high RTPs anymore. In fact making a profit is getting tougher every day.

I know nobody gives a toss and I’ll probably be shot down “poor casinos” etc, but I’m not a bullshitter and only post my own personal opinions on here.

Cheers!
Mark
Mark as a rep I do respect you you've been here a long old time)

But it still does not take a genius to work out a good system which works for anyone engaging in the uk market.

Hey bottom line is casinos are quick enough to take deposits period.

If a casinos house is in order why would you worry ??? Why would you need to wait until withdraw for more information????

Answer these questions best you can because clearly its miffed by players to why there accountable for this until withdrawal point.

So wheres all the big overheads coming from as most casinos are out of UK territory?????

It's happening throughout EU so what's changed ???
 
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Mark_Lottomart

Accredited Casino Representative
Joined
Feb 8, 2022
Location
Gibraltar
Why would you need to wait until withdraw for more information????
We don’t. I wish this misconception would disappear. As an example, this week we had a player who has won £40k. We paid him. He hit a threshold for extra checks and we asked for source of funds. He wouldn’t provide them. His account is now closed.
So wheres all the big overheads coming from as most casinos are out of UK territory?????

Taxes, staff, operating costs, software related to regulatory checks.

It's happening throughout EU so what's changed ???

See above.
 

justdoit

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NEWS in 2023 Malta Casinos catching more money laundering criminals online than FBI Interpol M5 😂😂 all Banks of EU UK failed to check their costumer for money laundering, with help of Casinos online they got over 10k criminals over 24hrs 😂
 

Mark_Lottomart

Accredited Casino Representative
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Feb 8, 2022
Location
Gibraltar
Let’s play a quick game.

Customer from the UK registers via a Google paid for advert and loses £100. How much does the casino make?

I’m not going to break it down, but I’ll start you off with…

£21 goes to UK HMRC as tax.

£79 left.
 

justdoit

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To be fair, the banks aren't beyond reproach - HSBC were indirectly helping the Mexican Cartel not so long ago :p
most of casino owners are involve in some criminal activities in past, best to do money laundering open a casino, special in Malta where all runs by some ex Soviet Criminals
 

justdoit

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Let’s play a quick game.

Customer from the UK registers via a Google paid for advert and loses £100. How much does the casino make?

I’m not going to break it down, but I’ll start you off with…

£21 goes to UK HMRC as tax.

£79 left.
lets just say if Bet365 still run in 96%-95% RTP and make over 1B a year profit way cant other casino do the same? but they drop their RTP to 91% ?
 

Mr_Slot5

Senior Member
Joined
May 6, 2019
Location
North West
But at least you paid then closed the account))
Yes and props to Mark and Lottomart for that. I’m guessing there was no obvious signs of fraud, ergo no suspicion and so the money could be paid and the casino-player relationship severed via account closure (due to the player not willing to provide documents).

The fair and logical way of doing things.
 

cncas2123

Ueber Meister
Joined
May 23, 2015
Location
Belfast
Let’s play a quick game.

Customer from the UK registers via a Google paid for advert and loses £100. How much does the casino make?

I’m not going to break it down, but I’ll start you off with…

£21 goes to UK HMRC as tax.

£79 left.
My guess would be from the £79 you would be paying licensing costs, staff costs, provider costs and power costs. Then you would have aff fees on top of that, so would I be too generous in saying you would be getting somewhere around the 5% mark as profit margins?
I know nothing about how the casino industry works, but would say your business model will all be based around volumes ( I am working in an industry were we have to live with margins off around 2.5% and would guess you guys wouldnt be a mile away from that).
 

dunover

Unofficial T&C's Editor
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What percent of the £1bn is UK customers playing casino?
That is true, we know from previous articles that virtually every penny of Bet365's profit is from overseas, in fact it's even possible that the UK market is subsidized by that fact.

So in the UK from £100 you would pay £21 GGR Tax

Nothing to affiliate but I know google keyword ads are expensive, some cost £5-10 a click.

Then the platform fee if not in-house.

Then the game providers' commission which I know approximately as I get income from a couple of games I helped with. 5%?

Corporation tax if applicable on any profits.

General Staffing, buildings, accounting fees.

Payment to companies like Rightlander to ensure affiliate due diligence.

Software and legal experts/advisors to ensure general operations compliance.

Customer service staff.

Media advertising including sponsorships, affiliate programmes.

Quite at long list.
 

Mark_Lottomart

Accredited Casino Representative
Joined
Feb 8, 2022
Location
Gibraltar
I know nothing about how the casino industry works, but would say your business model will all be based around volumes ( I am working in an industry were we have to live with margins off around 2.5% and would guess you guys wouldnt be a mile away from that).
Thanks for the reply. In your industry is it sales based? Eg if you’re making 2.5% of turnover that’s always positive? One thing to factor in is we have negative profit from customers too.
 

slot_zombie

Meister Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2014
Location
UK
Most of those.costs mentioned are fixed though, surely, except game provider commissions. The Google Ad is a one off cost of player acquisition, not a problem on future deposits.

In the examples of L&L / Lottomart, customers are churning their deposits through fast paced random games with a 6% house edge in many cases, due to lowered RTPs. Never heard of a poor casino, lol
 

Jono777

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Slightly sidetracking here....

Question posted only from what I read on here over the years.....No knives, no daggers, heck not even any harsh language :p

Would I be right in thinking that if we hypothetically "rolled every casino into one" that the UK would make up a very large figure of the total player base.

If memory serves I know of at least two very large casinos (VS and 32 Red) whom both have a very large UK player base. Hence my question.

Cheers
 

Mark_Lottomart

Accredited Casino Representative
Joined
Feb 8, 2022
Location
Gibraltar
Slightly sidetracking here....

Question posted only from what I read on here over the years.....No knives, no daggers, heck not even any harsh language :p

Would I be right in thinking that if we hypothetically "rolled every casino into one" that the UK would make up a very large figure of the total player base.

If memory serves I know of at least two very large casinos (VS and 32 Red) whom both have a very large UK player base. Hence my question.

Cheers
I would say no. 32 has a large UK base and so do we, don’t know much about VS but I’d suggest the majority of the larger operators are not so reliant upon UK revenue.
 

cncas2123

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Location
Belfast
Thanks for the reply. In your industry is it sales based? Eg if you’re making 2.5% of turnover that’s always positive? One thing to factor in is we have negative profit from customers too.
Yes, all positive turnover, though different discount levels based on customer spending, extended credit etc so we would have had a turnover approaching £270M pa and EBITDA of around £6.5M.
 

dunover

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Most of those.costs mentioned are fixed though, surely, except game provider commissions. The Google Ad is a one off cost of player acquisition, not a problem on future deposits.

In the examples of L&L / Lottomart, customers are churning their deposits through fast paced random games with a 6% house edge in many cases, due to lowered RTPs. Never heard of a poor casino, lol
I think Mark was trying to favour us in his example where the player is recruited for say a tenner via google ads/keyword ads as it's like you say, a one-off fee.

If an affiliate recruited the player, then it's possible there's a CPA payment of many times that tenner, plus a percentage of future earnings. Of course, that relies on the affiliate being in positive balance each month which isn't guaranteed.

SoW/AML costs and RG isn't fixed, the time and expense rises with the number of players - of course, many won't hit thresholds and leave beforehand but those remaining need constant monitoring via software so this expense does rise when revenues from the players overall may not.

I think we've heard of many 'poor casinos' on here. Off the top of my head, Red Queen, Midaur, Trada (Aspire or bust!) and tens more have left the UK or closed altogether in the last 3 years. I have spoken at conferences in confidence to several of the aff. managers or managers and they simply shake their heads in frustration at the hopelessness of their situation in trying to continue servicing the UK markets and even some other markets. They don't make this up, often they are 'between jobs' when I speak to them.

So if it's a choice between increasing house edge (which I hate as much as anyone else) or losing money/busting then it's the nuclear option I'm afraid. This request to developers for lower RTP models over the last few years bears direct correlation to harsher tax and licensing conditions not just in the UK but across many Euro countries too. Remember, HQ in Malta, IoM or Gibraltar may mean lower corporation tax on company profits (if they make any) but it does not apply to local gaming taxes in the licensed countries they operate in.
 

justdoit

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what happen if I get letter from bank that I got check for money laundering and I can spend x amount of money per month ? and I got regular income on my bank account do casinos accept that letter as SOW check ?
 

snorky510238

Chief glockenspiel maker
Joined
Jan 12, 2018
Location
Uk
Regarding Google advertising. If it wasn’t profitable a sensible Company wouldn’t use it, would they?

As for Casinos struggling to make a profit. We’ve seen them face fines running into the millions…….they’re still trading.

The reason Casinos, may (and I use that word lightly) be struggling is because tge market is so badly regulated. To make it work more efficiently and benefit Casinos and players. Limit the amount of licenses that are allocated and limit the amount of games that are produced.

There must be statistical proof that new games account for a large chunk of profit. Otherwise, I can’t see for the life of me, why a Casino needs a library that boasts over 2,000 games. Of which 90% are absolute bloody dross. They must be relying on the uneducated, playing any old crap.

4 or 5 decent releases per month would be more than adequate but no, let’s swamp the market and make hay. They’ll only have themselves to blame, when slotting eats itself and it will eventually.

One thing that’s never mentioned and I wonder why? :rolleyes: Is how much potential profit is lost every month through players self excluding because Casinos have robbed them blind by reducing rtp’s thus making a once sustainable hobby quite the opposite?

Let’s have some figures posted on that. If you knew just how many exclude on a weekly basis, you’d understand why Casinos and Providers have created an ever decreasing circle. They are making the most of it before the circle disappears completely, because it will eventually.
 

danofthewibble

Meister Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2018
Location
UK
what happen if I get letter from bank that I got check for money laundering and I can spend x amount of money per month ? and I got regular income on my bank account do casinos accept that letter as SOW check ?
A sensible casino wouldn’t. You shouldn’t rely on someone else having done the work for you. It’s still your responsibility if you rely on it, and the original checks turn out to have been insufficient, wrong or otherwise negligent.
 

maxd

PAB (Complaints) Manager
Staff member
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Saltirelandia
... Never heard of a poor casino, lol
As satisfying (and as understandable) as it is to believe that the truth is a little more nuanced. Casino owners that can't make a go of it aren't keen on advertising their failures. Believe me, they aren't that hard to find.

Personally I've got a lot of respect for casino operators that are able to offer an honest service and stay profitable. I'd exclude almost all of the mega-corp conglomerates though: they operate by different rules and many run so far into the grey zone that they're not respectable by definition.
 
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justdoit

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A sensible casino wouldn’t. You shouldn’t rely on someone else having done the work for you. It’s still your responsibility if you rely on it, and the original checks turn out to have been insufficient, wrong or otherwise negligent.
most of casino staff not trained to do SOW, and every casino ask different doc, UKGC should set up set of doc casinos can ask for it, and some casino they cant take advantage of SOW, same time they should make clear to casinos they cant hold costumers money, or make it 3 levels of sow low deposit players middle and high bet and make it Clear to costumers on every casino what doc they need to past sow in each level, the way casinos are dealing now just to shut up UKGC and same time they losing players by refusing sow, if they keep doing same think by next year not many casino will be left in UK
 
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