English Harbour Group Warning

[hapaboii]

Hey guys,

First time poster, please go easy on me. I recently joined and deposited at English Harbour Casino and also Silver Dollar Casino in the same day. They are both part of the English Harbour group of casinos and both on Casinomeister's reputable list. Before I received any bonuses, I made large video poker wagers at both of the casinos - I busted out my $100 at Silver Dollar but I hit a nice pat straight flush on the 100 play deuces wild at English Harbour for a $650 score. Great I thought to myself. But today I receive a message from risk management and they say my accounts have both been closed because "security flags" were raised upon signup. That's strange, I signed up as a normal casino patron and had bad luck at one of the casinos and good luck at the other. They are going to refund my deposit of $275 at English Harbour, and conveniently they will just be keeping my $100 bust out at Silver Dollar.

I did not violate any terms or conditions of the casino, heck, I hadn't even claimed or received any bonuses from them yet. The terms did not say anything about it not being allowed to sign up at more than one casino in their group within the same day.

So, long story short, they are basically trying to cheat me out of my winnings at English Harbour. I know that casinos reserve the right to turn down business from whoever they choose, but if they are going to turn me away from their door now, and even not offer me any bonuses, I would imagine I am at least entitled to what I already won fairly.

I am confident that this will resolve peacefully and the casino will honor its players' winnings(even if they should choose to turn that player away from further bonuses or accounts at sister casinos), but I am concerned that they would try and "avoid" paying out to others by doing something similar.

I'll keep you guys updated, but for now I feel like it's better to avoid this group until they are more fair with their patrons.

 

[KasinoKing]

There is something fishy here.
What does Security Flags mean?
If there was absolutely no attempt to claim any bonus (manual or automatic), then I cant see why there should ever be a problem, even if there was maybe some issue with multiple accounts.
The only other thing I can think of is a fraudulent method of funding the accounts.
I look forward to hearing the full story & outcome on this one!

 

[Vesuvio]

Having read your post on here and the slightly fuller version at another site (the perils of choosing an unusual username ) I can't see any plausible reason for the casino holding onto your winnings. Unless they can come up with some convincing explanation for "security flags" (other than not wanting to pay someone who won) I'd say their accredited status here is in serious doubt. To take your winnings at one site but not to refund your deposit at the other strikes me as blatant opportunism.

Make sure you pitch a bitch and let us know how this develops.

 

[chuchu59]

Obviously,the casino must be wrong if they refund your deposit at one casino but not the other. However,I thought that bonuses were credited instantly at these casinos,right? From the amount of your deposits,i believe that you had intended to claim the bonuses,since the maximum match bonus you can claim at English Harbor is exactly $275. I am not trying to be sceptical but it does seem that you were not trying to sign in as a normal casino patron but rather as a bonus player although i must also say there is nothing wrong with that. As KK said,we look forward to hearing the whole stroy.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

IIRC this happened to some other player a few months back - but they eventually backed down and paid the full amount after he posted on here or WOL (can't remember exactly)

As long as this isn't fraud etc then this is an extremely worrying event. Pitch a Bitch at this with Bryan who should be able to help you and let us know how you get on.

 

[Vesuvio]

However,I thought that bonuses were credited instantly at these casinos,right?

I think the bonus is credited automatically, but only after 24 hours. The player asked them not to credit the bonus, which as far as I can see should always be an option (in fact even if a bonus is credited you should be able to forfeit it before you've started any wagering). In any case, the player risked his own money and unless we're not being given the whole story there's no excuse for their confiscating winnings from one casino & keeping the deposit from the other.

 

[caruso]

Bottom line:

1) There is "actual" fraud - fake documents, fake credit cards or multiple accounts at the same casino. Outcome: the casino keeps your winnings and also your lost deposits.

2) There is no fraud, just casino-speak "bonus abuse". Solution: the casino pays everything - deposits, winnings and any bonuses - without any of that "spirit of the promotion", "suspect wagering" or "playing for financial gain and not entertainment" encyclopedic litany of casino double-talk that our good friends at Integrity made their own.

From your account of the events and the casino's extremely limp-wristed response about "security flags", it looks like the second category.

Bryan may be currently out of the saddle, in which case you'll have to hold your peace for a couple of weeks. I'm confident you'll be paid, however.

 

[The Dude]

...Bryan may be currently out of the saddle, in which case you'll have to hold your peace for a couple of weeks. I'm confident you'll be paid, however.

I have one foot out the door on the way to the states for a couple of weeks. PABs are on hold right now, but I've made the casino aware of the thread. They should respond sometime soon.

 

[hapaboii]

Thanks for the responses. One thing I should point out though, they did not specifically say they would only refund my $275 and not my $100. This is an assumption. I just noticed that the email they sent me informing me of my accounts being closed said "deposits" made would be refunded, but I assumed this would only be my English Harbour deposit where I had won money(because they only make reference to my English Harbour account in the email).

My bigger concern is that they locked my accounts and are confiscating my winnings for no real reason other than what I believe was me signing up for three of their casinos and making deposits(of full bonus value) at two of them within the same day.

 

[hapaboii]

Well, here is follow up from the casino:
==============================================
Dear XXXXXXXXX,

Thank you for your email. Security flags were raised at the time you registered
your account and made your initial purchase.

After further review, your accounts will be left blocked and we will refund you
your balance in your English Harbour Casino account.

Refunds will be credited to the method you used to purchase.

Thank you and have a nice day.
==============================================

The key wording difference I can see is that in the first email they sent, they started "deposits made will be refunded" whereas in this email I am told that my "balance" will be refunded, which is likely to mean they will pay up my winnings.

I'll let you know if I receive the full amount of the balance I had, but I guess they don't want me playing at their casinos.

 

[The Dude]

I'm still trying to get out of here, but if you PM me your casino account number, I'll have their reps look into this for you.

 

[elscrabinda]

Don't let them get away with this nonsense. If you genuinely haven't done anything dodgy (and exploiting their bonuses does not count as dodgy) then you should get every cent you are owed, regardless of any 'security flags' they invent.

Hold your ground and good luck

 

[maxlevine]

This is an automatic bonus to be credited 24 hours after initial deposit. Although I disagree with automatic bonus policy, if you don't want it, you have to email them, or use Live Chat if available, and wait for their response. Otherwise, you end up with the wagering requirements.

A new player who would be unaware of automatic bonuses could always try to plead his/her case with the casino. But, imho, depositing precisely $275, which represents the limit of the 100% sign up bonus, and not expecting a bonus is suspicious. In which case, you'd get your deposit back but not your winnings/bonus.

As for your $100 at Silver Dollar, they have no reasons to refund it but you should get the 100% bonus in your account and be allowed to play it until you meet the WR.

Max

 

[KasinoKing]

A new player who would be unaware of automatic bonuses could always try to plead his/her case with the casino. But, imho, depositing precisely $275, which represents the limit of the 100% sign up bonus, and not expecting a bonus is suspicious. In which case, you'd get your deposit back but not your winnings/bonus.

Good point. But this is what their T&C's say:

The Welcome Bonus will be deposited into the Casino account approximately twenty-four (24) hours after the first deposit has been made. If a customer withdraws his balance BEFORE receiving the Welcome Bonus, any betting activity will not count towards the published betting requirements. Once you have been credited with the WELCOME BONUS you must meet the wagering requirements before you are eligible to Cashin.

This clearly gives the player permission to play with their deposited funds, and withdraw BEFORE receiving the bonus.
The only penalty to the player, is this play does not count towards WR, which still has to be met AFTER the bonus is credited.
No-where in the T&C's does it say a player can not do what hapaboii did.

The casino should pay out his full deposit + winnings, and also give him the welcome bonus - completely in compliance with their own T&C's.

 

[caruso]

A new player who would be unaware of automatic bonuses could always try to plead his/her case with the casino. But, imho, depositing precisely $275, which represents the limit of the 100% sign up bonus, and not expecting a bonus is suspicious.

Where does he say he didn't want the bonus? He said "I hadn't even claimed or received any bonuses from them yet.", not that he didn't want them. I see no attempts at naivete.

Either way, this is neither here nor there. Did he respect the terms? That is the only question. From his comments and the casino's, it would seem he did.

 

[chuchu59]

The casino stands to lose on this one. By citing 'security flags were raised',if the player won with his deposit,he gets to keep his winnings because he won fair and square before he was made aware of this. On the other hand if the deposit is lost,he should receive his deposit back because they dont want his business. Still,I still think the casino owes the player an explanation.

 

[MrWolf]

On a slightly different tack, I'm far from impressed by the English Harbour group. It's fairly obvious from my own experience that they don't give a stuff about their players' interests.

Recently I returned to the English Harbour group after a gap of two or three years, and played three times without a bonus. I deposited with a (pounds sterling) credit card first time, and my casino account is in dollars. Upon withdrawing, I was told that the money would go back to my credit card, since that was the method of depositing. Fair enough.

However, I was told by support, and it's also written on their web site, that if you deposit via Neteller, you can be paid via Neteller. Great I thought - no losing out on the exchange rate and credit card commissions. I can keep everything in dollars.

So on the second and third occasions I deposited via Neteller. However, despite ringing up "customer service" and emailing accounts telling them I wanted Neteller refunds, despite being told my refunds would go back to Neteller, they processed the payments back to my credit card. If they carry on doing this, not only do I incur the costs mentioned above, my Neteller balance gets depleted and then I have to fund it with more deposits from a sterling card, more costs etc. I'm sure you get the idea.

I was so pissed off with them for ignoring my requests and lying to me I asked them to close all my accounts immediately. I also wrote an email to the management explaining why I decided to do this, but have I had a reply? My fault though - I should have realised that they don't care about their customers.

 

[hapaboii]

Right, I hadn't yet claimed any bonuses, I was willing to withdraw before receiving any bonus since I had been playing with my own money and got lucky. As another user pointed out, there is nothing wrong with this in the ToC.

So if they want to come up with some bs that I must receive the bonus once I deposit an amount that is eligible to receive the bonus, why then lock my accounts for security flags, confiscate my winnings(NOTE: I RECEIVED ONLY MY DEPOSIT REFUNDED TODAY FOR $275 from english harbour casino - NOT $650(which was my balance before my account was locked)), and issue no bonuses at all to either my English Harbour or Silver Dollar account.

Let's face it. They locked my accounts, confiscated my winnings, and issued no bonuses because I signed up at three of their casinos in a 2 hour span. Again, not against ToC. So they want to turn away my business because they think I'm a bonus abuser? Fine, but withholding duly earned winnings, refusing to allow me to decline the signup bonus and withdraw so I wouldn't be held to the bonus terms(and then not issuing bonuses that they claim I had to accept), is of great concern and is enough reason to avoid this group until they prove otherwise.

I have not yet PMed Casinomeister, I'll be doing that now.

 

[hapaboii]

Just another update. Got credited with my winnings in a separate payment. Still not happy with this group, but at least they paid up what my full balance at English Harbour was. I'm sure Casinomeister and this thread probably had something to do with it. Thanks.

 

[Tdoggy]

Glad to hear

Glad to hear you got paid. Got to give the Casinomeister credit here indeed. Sounded like the whole time you did no wrong and they were just screwing with you. Justice has been served!

 

[KasinoKing]

Just another update. Got credited with my winnings in a separate payment. Still not happy with this group, but at least they paid up what my full balance at English Harbour was. I'm sure Casinomeister and this thread probably had something to do with it. Thanks.

Good news indeed!

But please tell us - have they also given you the welcome bonus?

According to their T&C's, they should!

 

[caruso]

However, his original intention was to opt-out, so that doesn't seem to be a problem.

Right, I hadn't yet claimed any bonuses, I was willing to withdraw before receiving any bonus since I had been playing with my own money and got lucky.

That said, not receiving bonuses as requested isn't the whole story: his accounts were closed and he was told "they are going to refund my deposit of $275 at English Harbour", and revoke his winnings, because of "security flags". He has now been paid his winnings - so what were these "security flags" and why has the casino now apparently changed its mind? Surely a "reputable" casino has not just done another red-faced about turn?

This happens time and again. Lake Palace: player paid with no explanation; Integrity: all players paid after the "scamming" and "skimming" excuses; now, EH: player paid after "security flags" excuses.

The reason no explanation is ever given is because the guilty casinos HAVE no explanation; they were trying it on and got caught out.

Casinos know they have an approximate one in ten chance of being caught out with stunts like these. This is always a profitable ploy - and it isn't just "rogues", it includes casinos on the "recommended" list of one of the biggest casino portals in existence.

We all make make the right noises; we all go ga-ga about how "good" casino XYZ is; we post our pretty screenshots and shout "whoopee". But at the end of the day, it's incidents like this that tell us the bare TRUTH about the kind of trash sitting behind these operations.

 

[elscrabinda]

I know the meister did with a heavy heart remove Integrity casinos from his list but it would be nice to see the rest of the list a bit more 'fluid'. After all, casinos may be good once but if they've turned sour then they should be removed. I know nothings happened on the scale of Integrity yet but tbh it shouldn't have to. For a casino to be on the list they should be exceptional. It is clear that some on there are not. Well not exceptionally good anyway!

 

[jetset]

QUOTE: This happens time and again. Lake Palace: player paid with no explanation; UNQUOTE

Correction. This was not the case at all in the Lake Palace affair. A player complained to the eCOGRA Fair Gaming Advocate who ruled against him. One of the more responsible and practically public spirited posters here then wrote to the CEO of eCOGRA suggesting a review at a more senior level. The review was carried out and the FGA decision overturned in favour of the player, who was then paid out. The reason for the reversal (which was correctly based on the fact that the player had complied with the terms of the T&C at the time he wagered) was given, I believe.

Generating this sort of blanket casino-hate approach is not really constructive, Caruso.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Those facts are pretty right Jetset regarding Lake Palace - however it doesn't matter how you dress it up it was still "another red faced turn around" by both eCOGRA and Lake Palace whichever way you look at it.

BTW The only reason eCOGRA gave for their change of heart was:

After taking into consideration what has been said by many respected voices in the industry, we are now revisiting our decision.

Not exactly an explanation.

Back to the point in hand, this is the second case I can remember in recent months where English Harbour have tried this trick. If they are indeed 'reputable' why are they trying to confiscate winnings, and then quickly back tracking and paying out when players have gone to the forums without giving any reason for the change?