Ecogra Casinorewards Corruption

[oren1976]

It looks like they are well connected, I can see this info in multiple forums.

It would be interesting to know how many complaints about casino rewards casino were judged to the player favor. I suggest it is around zero, and if it is not then it is a setup not to show the corruption scam and spam.

Just to how I am right, does anybody here was judged to his favor by complaining about a casino in the casinorewards group.

The group is big casinorewards.com and if I am not right in my words somebody here in the forum should say he was judged to his favor, my guess is non, nobody, nada.

Avoid casinorewards , it will be a waste of time to submit Ecogra.

 

[catcat941]

what umean ,crewards always pay players

did nt understand yr posting . its a large group they give nice bonuses and i never heard of an unpaid player there , at least amongst that did terms a cond ,

 

[petro]

eCOGRA is an independent non-profit organisation.
Not that it matters but they are also based in the UK.

I think you may be looking too deep into this oren.

 

[The Dude]

It looks like they are well connected, I can see this info in multiple forums.

It would be interesting to know how many complaints about casino rewards casino were judged to the player favor. I suggest it is around zero, and if it is not then it is a setup not to show the corruption scam and spam.

Just to how I am right, does anybody here was judged to his favor by complaining about a casino in the casinorewards group.

The group is big casinorewards.com and if I am not right in my words somebody here in the forum should say he was judged to his favor, my guess is non, nobody, nada.

Avoid casinorewards , it will be a waste of time to submit Ecogra.

What exactly are you complaining about? Your post makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[Seventh777]

I`ll have two of what the OP had pls .

P.S.
Did you smoke, snort, or drink it?.

 

[oren1976]

yeh Yeh Yeh, I am not complaining and I hope I haven't smoked too much.

Now to the point, all I am saying is that what you mentioned is what should be, but in the real world ecogra is independent unless it is Casino Rewards.

Casinorewards probably own microgaming or part of the owners.

Maybe it took them couple of years to build this status, this is something they know, BUT the point is that once there is a dispute between a player and the casino, and the player is right in his or her complaint, casinorewards win the cases because of the corruption I mentioned.


All you said, "u smoke" "I never heard" all of this was expected and I understand your doubts.

I say what I said, you can choose to trust it or not, it is your choice.

I say the people in casinorewards are corrupted together with Ecogra as they are the one to make the decision to their favor.


By the way, Casinorewards are corrupted for multiple other reasons, one of them and this you must be familial otherwise people here are disconnected from the online casino world, THEY ARE SPAMMING LIKE CRAZY.

The reached people Email, that even the people already forgot about their Email and they remember it. They will send you so many message to pore your head until you die and even after that.

I am sure that I die and they continue sending spam and messages.

I am not against them, I play there dont understand me wrong.

I am just saying they are corrupted. When somebody will try to get his money while They think they don't want to pay, they will have the people in Ecogra judging in their favor.

To prove my point, many people see this thread including Ecogra Tex Ree, Casinorewards, all the players in the world.

Show me one player that got a resolution from Ecogra to his favor in the past 1 year in Casinorewards brand casinos.

What I mentioned match their behavior, they behave like imperialist. Every casino that goes out of business they buy, you go out of business shouting for help who is coming to save you ? Casinorewards, we buy you, dont' worry. So they also bought some people in NETeller and Ecogra and maybe Moneybooker, why maybe? sure.


I give you proof, a friend of mine opened an Email and registered a NETeller account, he just ordered a debit card from NETeller.

He never registered Any casino, who sent spam ? Casinorewards, the angels in Casinorewards control neteller, control moneybooker, control Ecogra, Control control control

 

[jetset]

Just as a matter of interest, oren have you personally laid a complaint with eCOGRA against a Casino Rewards operation? If you have, was it resolved in your favour?

Second question: Have you ever looked at the regular dispute resolution reports published publicly by eCOGRA?

It's pretty easy to anonymously throw some pretty wild allegations around on an internet forum, especially against a casino group that does not appear to enjoy a high level of player popularity, but without some proof or personal experience how does one know that your claims are truthful?

For example, I very much doubt that Microgaming is owned by Casino Rewards in whole or even in part. And exactly who (in your experience) at Neteller, Moneybookers and eCOGRA has been "bought" by CR, and what evidence do you have to support this accusation?

 

[The Dude]

Hi Oren,

You're making a lot of accusations here with nothing to back it up.

Casinorewards owns MGS? Rubbish.

eCOGRA not ruled in favor of a player from CR? eCOGRA publishes their complaint stats.
Old / Expired Link

43% of these complaints were ruled in favor of the player, so I don't know what you're getting at here.

 

[oren1976]

Ecogra will keep the stats, but if it is a casinorewards casio, since casinorewards have personal there, they will judge against the player if it is a casinorewards casino involved.

Now, I will contact Ecogra and ask them, I telling you that they are not going to show to anybody the specific distribution of the player favor complaint.

Maybe they will show it to Somebody they know and must show, like famous people like Bryan himself but not a stranger who Email them all of a sudden.

So even before I send a request to Ecogra, the fact they not going to show support also my point.

What I also said is that Casinorewards have their people in Moneybookers and NETeller. I have some proof for you...

First I mentioned the fact a friend of mine opened a New Email . He registered with NETeller and ordered a debit card, he never registered any casino, but he got spam from the angels at Casinorewards, this I can show you, he can expose himself and I think he got himself a User in Casinomeister if needed I will ask him to come and show his story himself.

This show what I said, Casinorewards have people in NETeller.

Moreover, I sit and read forums, some of them are private and what I see? I see the following -

Each time NETeller or Moneybooker is involved in a dispute, means they feel they don't want to pay , all of sudden at many cases they cause closure of your moneybooker and NETeller, the issue is that the casino have no case, if they had a case that wouldn't be so surprising but at a NO CASE they have NEteller and moneybooker closing accounts for them very easily which also mean to me and everybody who got some common sense they got their people there sure.


I stick to my claim, I wish Ecogra would show their info and show I am wrong, but since ecogra are in the corruption story they will never show you I am right and almost no case against casinorewards were judeged against them but to their favor. To save themselves and keep the 40% player favor results they biase their decision to other casinos, but not to casinorewards unless it is a setup when something like a phone call come to casinorewards from their scarecrew in Ecogra saying come on this time we cant make it as it will look odd in the statistic then they make a setup to admit player favor in small amounts probably but in big amounts nothing in player favor as the corruption works well.


From the spamming and if you wish I go further and contact Ecogra, I was always paid by Casinorewards, it is not about me and I never submit any dispute with them.

Casinorewards probably laugh when they see this thread, maybe because they know I am right

 

[unhappy]

hi oren

I played at casino rewards for a few years and never really had a problem with them spamming. Try rtg or rival casinos if you want problems of spamming. One thing you have to remember Oren is that theres no casinos out there that have no problems , they always have one problem or another but its finding the casinos that have the least amount of problems, So with your troubles with casino rewards, well based on the size and amount of players they're doing more right than wrong.

 

[oren1976]

I am not saying Casinorewards are not paying.

I am just saying that in order to protect themself to go out of business like their microgaming friends they use corruption as a way to do it.

They buy people in Ecogra, NETeller, Microgaming, Moneybooker.... In order to use them when they need to, thats all I am saying.

Of course it is not going to affect you personally, unless they decide you are someone they want to deal with.

And again please show me one respected memeber who got a problem with casinorewards and ecogra judged to his side.

To Casinomeister, I don't know how to explain it right, but from looking at complaints you got about them, can you find a tendency of ecogra to judge towards the casino, other words, were there too many cases with them that you felt the player is right but ecogra judged against according to the player complaint ??

 

[The Dude]

I stick to my claim, I wish Ecogra would show their info and show I am wrong, but since ecogra are in the corruption story they will never show you I am right and almost no case against casinorewards were judeged against them but to their favor. To save themselves and keep the 40% player favor results they biase their decision to other casinos, but not to casinorewards unless it is a setup when something like a phone call come to casinorewards from their scarecrew in Ecogra saying come on this time we cant make it as it will look odd in the statistic then they make a setup to admit player favor in small amounts probably but in big amounts nothing in player favor as the corruption works well...

This is way out of line. I know Tex Rees well, their Fair Gaming Advocate and the one who handles disputes, and she is no way corrupt or a "scarecrow". She is one of the hardest working persons that I know who always gives the player the benefit of the doubt when dealing with disputes.

One last time, put up or shut up. If you have evidence of corruption then post it. Don't make unfounded and half-baked accusations. To continue to do so will only jeopardize your account in this forum. That's your last warning.

 

[oren1976]

I didn't say Tax Ree is involved personally. She can be a great person.

I said Tax Ree read this forum, please look at my words.

I will refrain from saying anymore, I am not here to burn Casinorewards I just wanted to let you know what I know thats all.

From the fact other companies obey them so smoothly and the spam story I mentioned, they do have scarecrews in companies, people that they bought them, from the higest rank, I didn't say Tax Ree is the Scarecrew, how would I know who is it excatly , I give you facts you decide, now I shut up.

 

[threescatters]

Casinorewards only pay players who are playing -ev, even if following t and c.

 

[troops72]

I played at casino rewards for a few years and never really had a problem with them spamming. Try rtg or rival casinos if you want problems of spamming. One thing you have to remember Oren is that theres no casinos out there that have no problems , they always have one problem or another but its finding the casinos that have the least amount of problems, So with your troubles with casino rewards, well based on the size and amount of players they're doing more right than wrong.

That is very well said.Was going to reply here ,but you said what i was thinking .

 

[vinylweatherman]

I know of ONE case where a ruling was made in favour of a player, although this was through Kahnawake, not eCogra. IF CR had the level of corrupt influence described, they would have bought off Kahnawake, which is much EASIER to achieve than buying off eCogra, which is considered next to impossible since they have to answer to UK laws about corruption.

The connection between casinos and Neteller/Moneybookers is more credible, and robust evidence is needed to find out EXACTLY how Neteller are connected (if they are) to the spamming by casinos.
It is already known that Neteller/Moneybookers DO have a "cosy" relationship with the casinos, and DO automatically side with the casino before finding out BOTH sides of the story. The evidence for this is that Neteller/Moneybookers will "charge back" a paid withdrawal from a players' Neteller account just on the word of the casino, leaving the player having to fight for the money back.

Casino Rewards mistakenly overpaid a withdrawal recently, but did NOT resort to a Neteller "chargeback", but asked me to return the overpayment, which I did. This suggests that Casino Rewards behave BETTER than some other casinos in this regard.

Betfair were doing this, and even took money from a player's BANK account. They ended up in the ROGUE pit over this.

Casino Rewards are probably "too big to fail" as far as Microgaming are concerned, and even eCogra would face MASSIVE embarrassment were CR to default on players' balances on their watch. CR are also "too big" to find a "white knight" rescuer should things go wrong in the current climate.

Tex Rees is based in the UK, and if any evidence exists of corruption with her, or eCogra in general, send it to Scotland Yard for proper investigation.

Allegations "in a number of forums" does not constitute evidence, and is really nothing more than rumour & gossip, made from behind the sheild of anonymity.
Rumour and gossip can be seen all over the internet, and some of the theories seem pretty outlandish (such as "hard evidence" of alien abductions & cover-ups by the US and UK).
Only a fraction of these turn out to be TRUE, and rarely the outlandish ones.

Of course, you might now say that Casino Rewards paid me to post this, but it ain't so

 

[Jasminebed]

I get a ton of mail from Casino Rewards, much of it not directly addressed to me (ie full name, acct number). I actually hesitate to call it "spam" since I've played several of their casinos, and still play at one of them.

I don't use neteller, but often when you sign up for services you agree to receive offers from "select partners". Often there is a checkbox you must uncheck; sometimes it's necessary to scroll past the "I Agree".

Most of the complaints you see here about Casino Rewards revolve around two issues: the locking of Reward Points accounts (including earned comps for play), and the lengthy reversible period. The lack of complaints here would lead me to believe that they do pay players that have not breached their terms.

I suggest your friend reread his agreement with Neteller, and also check that the mail was actually addressed to him. For example, I sometimes receive mail addressed to say jasminebell or something close to my name. If your friend has an email account remotely like a name or word in english, it may indeed be spam sent via a shotgun approach, and I suggest reporting it to Casino Rewards. I don't think (but I don't know since I can't be bothered) they take much action with their affiliates.

 

[hakapuku]

What Oren says is that from his knowledge Ecogra NEVER ruled against
Casino Rewards. And this is my experience too. So, that definately
makes me suspicious about Ecogra. And yes- not me , not Oren we don't have video tape or voice recording showing Ecogra taking bribe from CR. But still- don't
we have a right to voice our suspicions?
Again, how ,for example, do we prove that some casino software is rigged? Do we have to make a video of some programmer making changes to the software? Surely not. We look at the results, statistics. And if we find those statistics to be not realistic- we suspect software to be rigged. Same here. Ecogra rules against many casinos here and there. But never , in my experience, against Casino Rewards. And as we all know Casino Rewards is not the best casino group to say the least. Many players, even on this forum, will prove that. So how comes that one of the worst casino group is never punished by Ecogra decisions? Suspicious!

 

[hakapuku]

Hi Oren,

You're making a lot of accusations here with nothing to back it up.

Casinorewards owns MGS? Rubbish.

eCOGRA not ruled in favor of a player from CR? eCOGRA publishes their complaint stats.
Old / Expired Link

43% of these complaints were ruled in favor of the player, so I don't know what you're getting at here.

This specific statistics does not say anything about the disputes against CasinoRewards. It is possible that those 43% don't have even single Casino Rewards case in it.

 

[oren1976]

To weatherman "I know of ONE case where a ruling was made in favour of a player, although this was through Kahnawake, not eCogra."

Do you know if at the case you mentioend above ecogra judged against the player while Kahnawake judged the opposite and of course the casino had to obey Kahnawake ?? Or you know that just Kahnwake judged to player favor ?

And please players if some of you got positive results from Ecogra related to a casinorewards casino please let us know.

And if Tex Ree read this Email, will you be able to let us all know what precentage of Casinorewards complaints were in players favor.

IN order to comply to ethics I return my words and after reading weatherman post I would say I tend to strongly suspect Casinorewards and Ecogra in Corruption.

If Tax Ree or anybody else from Ecogra will publish the results of precentage of casinorewards complaint that were judged to players favor this past year, that would solve the all problems whether I talk truth or lies

 

[vinylweatherman]

To weatherman "I know of ONE case where a ruling was made in favour of a player, although this was through Kahnawake, not eCogra."

Do you know if at the case you mentioend above ecogra judged against the player while Kahnawake judged the opposite and of course the casino had to obey Kahnawake ?? Or you know that just Kahnwake judged to player favor ?

And please players if some of you got positive results from Ecogra related to a casinorewards casino please let us know.

And if Tex Ree read this Email, will you be able to let us all know what precentage of Casinorewards complaints were in players favor.

IN order to comply to ethics I return my words and after reading weatherman post I would say I tend to strongly suspect Casinorewards and Ecogra in Corruption.

If Tax Ree or anybody else from Ecogra will publish the results of precentage of casinorewards complaint that were judged to players favor this past year, that would solve the all problems whether I talk truth or lies

The case was where the player won $10,000 with a bonus, but broke a term. They complained to Kahnawake that the term they broke was not obvious, and Kahnawake agreed, and told CR to pay half the winnings and make the term more obvious. This was a compromise judgement where CR were punished for "burying" a term away from the bonus terms for a specific offer, making the players have to hunt around for it. The player DID actually break the term, which is why they were only awarded half the money.

I do not know whether eCogra got involved at all, or whether this was an appeal after a bad result from eCogra. There is therefore no evidence to suggest that eCogra ruled fully in favour of CR, and Kahnawake partly overturned this on appeal.

 

[oren1976]

To weatherman - the case you mentioned can put some light on the issue although a term was broken would it be possible to ask the poor player if Ecogra ruled against him before he asked for Kahanwake or whatever their name is got involved

One thing that will surprise me although all of you might think I am drunk, I believe not even one single player in the past year got a positive resolution to his favor by Ecogra with regards to a casinorewards casino.

 

[whatever]

Almost a year ago I received a bonus offer through e-mail from Casino Rewards. It was (as always) a low percentage bonus, but the maximum amount was tempting (1000 euros).

I deposited, took the bonus and played following their terms to the letter. I met the wagering requirements, made another ~1000 euros of winnings on top of the bonus on the course of it, which was enough for me, so I proceeded to cash out.

I've been requested documents as the amounts involved were larger than usual, which I provided promptly, and after that nothing happened. Customer support told me my account 'was picked-up by the system' and a standard investigation is being made. After a 2 week period of 'investigations' I call them and I'm being passed to a guy in the security department who accuses me of:

- trying to 'squeeze out' the bonus (and therefore playing it in an abusive way) - as if their 25% bet limit rule never existed. Strange thing, when you bet big you are an abuser, when you bet low relative to the deposit, you are also an abuser.
- being part of a group.

I was informed I'll be given my deposit back and my account with Casino Rewards will be closed, which happened shortly after the phone conversation.


After all this I submitted a complaint to eCogra providing a clear, dated history of my experience with CR (just facts and my argument). I think it took around 2 weeks, after which I've been informed by ms. Tex Rees I'm being requested notarized docs. I comply with their request.

Shortly after that I was paid my winnings, so I can say I am one of those 43% who had a dispute with CR which was resolved by eCogra's intervention.

My CR account remains closed, but their spam keeps coming in daily

 

[3mptyseat]

I`ll have two of what the OP had pls .

P.S.
Did you smoke, snort, or drink it?.

Me three, and ur ruling out the needle 7th777? Ecogra mainly audits the sites that feature their various seals for the categories on their seals. For example, randomness, or payout percentage. This is what they mainly do. I know they also can resolve client v. casino issues, but I would say, of all the bs entities in this industry, they are stalwart and held industry wide in the utmost esteem. They have nothing to gain from siding with casinos when the casinos are wrong bc their integrity, which is the foundation for the public's trust in them, would quickly be lost.

And since they are an industry borne organization, made by and including competitor software providers and merchant, I am quite sure that is enough 'checks and balances' for me.

So if ur point is, "Casino rewards sucks." Maybe ur right, but Ms. Rees and eCOGRA don't have anything to do with that.

Also, I guess u didn't bother to look, but maybe I am wrong and u just couldn't find it: Here is a link to their dispute stats:

Old / Expired Link

 

[vinylweatherman]

Almost a year ago I received a bonus offer through e-mail from Casino Rewards. It was (as always) a low percentage bonus, but the maximum amount was tempting (1000 euros).

I deposited, took the bonus and played following their terms to the letter. I met the wagering requirements, made another ~1000 euros of winnings on top of the bonus on the course of it, which was enough for me, so I proceeded to cash out.

I've been requested documents as the amounts involved were larger than usual, which I provided promptly, and after that nothing happened. Customer support told me my account 'was picked-up by the system' and a standard investigation is being made. After a 2 week period of 'investigations' I call them and I'm being passed to a guy in the security department who accuses me of:

- trying to 'squeeze out' the bonus (and therefore playing it in an abusive way) - as if their 25% bet limit rule never existed. Strange thing, when you bet big you are an abuser, when you bet low relative to the deposit, you are also an abuser.
- being part of a group.

I was informed I'll be given my deposit back and my account with Casino Rewards will be closed, which happened shortly after the phone conversation.


After all this I submitted a complaint to eCogra providing a clear, dated history of my experience with CR (just facts and my argument). I think it took around 2 weeks, after which I've been informed by ms. Tex Rees I'm being requested notarized docs. I comply with their request.

Shortly after that I was paid my winnings, so I can say I am one of those 43% who had a dispute with CR which was resolved by eCogra's intervention.

My CR account remains closed, but their spam keeps coming in daily

This just shows that all their accusations were a load of BS. You met the terms, and eCogra told them to pay up.

It seemed they even TRIED to pull the wool over eCogra's eyes by telling them they had asked you for notarised documents, but it seems the first YOU heard about this was from eCogra, not CR.

How are you supposed to "abuse" one of their standard 25% or less bonuses anyway, and after all THEY offered it in the first place to get you back, so they must have KNOWN how you played.

They have decided they no longer want you as a customer, yet STILL they keep sending you the pointless spam. It seems that once on the spamming list, NOTHING can get you off it.

Complain to eCogra AGAIN, that they still keep sending you further offers despite the fact they have decided they don't want you.

Certainly some "sour grapes" on their part, because even though eCogra upheld your appeal, CR are DETERMINED to water down the eCogra decision by banning you from further play - seems they will comply, but don't trust Tex's judgement that you are NOT a "fraudster", or part of this "group", so they will ONLY comply with the ruling to the LETTER, not the "spirit" which is that you are just an ordinary player who happened to get lucky, but got mistaken for a "scammer".

 

[oren1976]

Well, Here is the deal, This is what I have been waiting for , maybe I went too far with my assumptions, more positive casinorewards resolutions hopefully to come to other players, they seem to be easy to not pay when they feel they are right

 

[MJackson]

One thing you have to remember Oren is that theres no casinos out there that have no problems , they always have one problem or another but its finding the casinos that have the least amount of problems, So with your troubles with casino rewards, well based on the size and amount of players they're doing more right than wrong.

There are lots of casinos that relative to the actions we've frequently seen from Casino Rewards indeed have no problems, or at least few enough as to be negligible.

The idea that financial success and volume somehow correlate with moral rectitude in the online gambling biz is not realistic.

The connection between casinos and Neteller/Moneybookers is more credible, and robust evidence is needed to find out EXACTLY how Neteller are connected (if they are) to the spamming by casinos.
It is already known that Neteller/Moneybookers DO have a "cosy" relationship with the casinos...

@Oren. Since the above quote seems to summarize the main theme of your thread it is worth pointing out that conspiracy is not requisite for cozy relationships and anti-player biases to exist.

Basically it works like this - Neteller and Moneybookers make the majority of their money from merchant, not player, fees. Thier existence is predicated on their relationship with those merchants, and secondarily on their relationship with the players. If they upset a player they may get some bad press in the forums and lose a couple new sign ups. If they upset CR or a similarly sized merchant and that merchant decides to drop them, they are then faced with a potentially existential crisis.

Players may be the gasoline but the merchants are the engine. One's easily replaced, the other only at far greater cost. That's why from time to time you have these "anti-player conspiracies". It's just how the system works.

I've been requested documents as the amounts involved were larger than usual, which I provided promptly, and after that nothing happened. Customer support told me my account 'was picked-up by the system' and a standard investigation is being made. After a 2 week period of 'investigations' I call them and I'm being passed to a guy in the security department who accuses me of:

- trying to 'squeeze out' the bonus (and therefore playing it in an abusive way) - as if their 25% bet limit rule never existed. Strange thing, when you bet big you are an abuser, when you bet low relative to the deposit, you are also an abuser.
- being part of a group.

That's extreme even by CR standards. Why do they do this stuff? It just makes them look like a bunch of ignorant criminals.

 

[footdr]

Learned quickly....

Casino Rewards casinos are the most underhanded group I have ever played.
They are truly corrupt and the only group in 6 years of playing that I dumped years ago to their "rewards program" problems and unethical practices.

 

[whatever]

This just shows that all their accusations were a load of BS. You met the terms, and eCogra told them to pay up.

It seemed they even TRIED to pull the wool over eCogra's eyes by telling them they had asked you for notarised documents, but it seems the first YOU heard about this was from eCogra, not CR.

I believe it was more like a compromise with eCogra. It probably was the last thing they could ask for before finally having to pay the winnings.

How are you supposed to "abuse" one of their standard 25% or less bonuses anyway, and after all THEY offered it in the first place to get you back, so they must have KNOWN how you played.

My experience is these bonuses were mostly given automatically based on a series of factors. Funny thing is I was offered the exact same bonus while my account was 'under investigation'.

They have decided they no longer want you as a customer, yet STILL they keep sending you the pointless spam. It seems that once on the spamming list, NOTHING can get you off it.
Complain to eCogra AGAIN, that they still keep sending you further offers despite the fact they have decided they don't want you.

The spam appears to be from some kind of 'in-house' affiliates. E-mails are sent from addresses like: [email protected] , [email protected] , [email protected] etc.

Check out this spam e-mail I repeatedly received which 'borrows' Betfair's design and motto: "betting as it should be":

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Certainly some "sour grapes" on their part, because even though eCogra upheld your appeal, CR are DETERMINED to water down the eCogra decision by banning you from further play - seems they will comply, but don't trust Tex's judgement that you are NOT a "fraudster", or part of this "group", so they will ONLY comply with the ruling to the LETTER, not the "spirit" which is that you are just an ordinary player who happened to get lucky, but got mistaken for a "scammer".

They have the right to ban any player they want, as long as all previous winnings are paid. I couldn't have cared less if they had continued to let me play or not, I wasn't going to play there anyway.

 

[peteyweestro]

Before the USA got kicked to the curb by Microgaming, my fav casino was Music Hall, then they went broke and got purchased by CR, and sadly that ended my play at my fav casino, because CR sucks,lol

 

[jetset]

Certainly some "sour grapes" on their part, because even though eCogra upheld your appeal, CR are DETERMINED to water down the eCogra decision by banning you from further play - seems they will comply, but don't trust Tex's judgement that you are NOT a "fraudster", or part of this "group", so they will ONLY comply with the ruling to the LETTER, not the "spirit" which is that you are just an ordinary player who happened to get lucky, but got mistaken for a "scammer".

Or....it could simply be management's unprofessionally pissed off reaction to being forced to pay up by eCOGRA - a sort of spiteful "we'll get you anyway by banning you" decision, justified by their right to restrict admission.

And because it is not uncommon among online casinos for the right hand to have no idea what the left is doing, the promotions department just keeps pumping out offers to you despite management's banning decision.

 

[JWhit1986]

@Oren. Since the above quote seems to summarize the main theme of your thread it is worth pointing out that conspiracy is not requisite for cozy relationships and anti-player biases to exist.

Basically it works like this - Neteller and Moneybookers make the majority of their money from merchant, not player, fees. Thier existence is predicated on their relationship with those merchants, and secondarily on their relationship with the players. If they upset a player they may get some bad press in the forums and lose a couple new sign ups. If they upset CR or a similarly sized merchant and that merchant decides to drop them, they are then faced with a potentially existential crisis.

Players may be the gasoline but the merchants are the engine. One's easily replaced, the other only at far greater cost. That's why from time to time you have these "anti-player conspiracies". It's just how the system works.

This may have been true several years ago when the USA was still active but not anymore. Very few casinos can survive without Neteller. It is like a store trying to push VISA around, VISA holds all the cards as does Neteller. Neteller is the single largest e-wallet and would not face any kind of crisis at all if they lost a casino group. Most of their money comes from sports bettors anyways since the amounts transferred are far higher.

 

[vinylweatherman]

This may have been true several years ago when the USA was still active but not anymore. Very few casinos can survive without Neteller. It is like a store trying to push VISA around, VISA holds all the cards as does Neteller. Neteller is the single largest e-wallet and would not face any kind of crisis at all if they lost a casino group. Most of their money comes from sports bettors anyways since the amounts transferred are far higher.

Despite this Neteller WILL do a "chargeback" when a MERCHANT later disputes a payment, yet a PLAYER is told "tough, payments are final and can't be retrieved from the merchant unless there is proof of fraud".

Players have to make a case for fraud, but a merchant just has to ask Neteller to reverse the payment, "no questions asked", and they do it if the money is still there.

 

[MJackson]

This may have been true several years ago when the USA was still active but not anymore. Very few casinos can survive without Neteller. It is like a store trying to push VISA around, VISA holds all the cards as does Neteller. Neteller is the single largest e-wallet and would not face any kind of crisis at all if they lost a casino group. Most of their money comes from sports bettors anyways since the amounts transferred are far higher.

I can't speak directly about Neteller but I assume it's pretty much the same as Moneybookers. Anyone who's dabbled in the affiliate world knows that the deposit fees taken by Moneybookers are huge (they're deducted from gross revenue). Deposit fees taken from merchants are not only far larger, but deposit volume is far higher than initial account uploading and P2P transfers. Neteller charges considerably more for P2P than Moneybookers but I would guess that those fees are still dwarfed by, as in your example, deposits to sportsbooks.

Ewallets are not the same as Visa. Visa is highly diversified. Neteller and Moneybooker's bread and butter, almost exclusively, relies on gambling. And to address what you said about losing a major casino group like CR not being a problem to them, sorry, but you're just wrong about that. It might not literally threaten their existence, but it would be a big, big deal.

Also this topic has come up many times on different forums. There is zero doubt, supported by piles of evidence, that both Neteller and Moneybookers will do the bidding of their merchants when a player is deemed to be "abusive".

 

[Nifty29]

Despite this Neteller WILL do a "chargeback" when a MERCHANT later disputes a payment, yet a PLAYER is told "tough, payments are final and can't be retrieved from the merchant unless there is proof of fraud".

Players have to make a case for fraud, but a merchant just has to ask Neteller to reverse the payment, "no questions asked", and they do it if the money is still there.

I've only heard of this happening once a few years back. Do you know of another case?

AFAIK it's not common practice and it may well no longer be done

Re: CR having 'plants' at ecogra and a whole lot of other places - well it's possible as they sure seem to produce a lot of dopes.

I also have it on good information that someone from CR was the 3rd gunman on the grassy knoll ....

 

[JWhit1986]

Ewallets are not the same as Visa. Visa is highly diversified. Neteller and Moneybooker's bread and butter, almost exclusively, relies on gambling. And to address what you said about losing a major casino group like CR not being a problem to them, sorry, but you're just wrong about that. It might not literally threaten their existence, but it would be a big, big deal.

Don't get me wrong, I understand Neteller will do the bidding of the casino even if it's illegal. My point is that Neteller is more valuable to the casino than the casino to Neteller. If CR dropped Neteller it would hurt them more. Unfortunately Neteller doesn't respect their fiduciary duty to customers and will violate the law if asked by a casino.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I can't speak directly about Neteller but I assume it's pretty much the same as Moneybookers. Anyone who's dabbled in the affiliate world knows that the deposit fees taken by Moneybookers are huge (they're deducted from gross revenue). Deposit fees taken from merchants are not only far larger, but deposit volume is far higher than initial account uploading and P2P transfers. Neteller charges considerably more for P2P than Moneybookers but I would guess that those fees are still dwarfed by, as in your example, deposits to sportsbooks.

Ewallets are not the same as Visa. Visa is highly diversified. Neteller and Moneybooker's bread and butter, almost exclusively, relies on gambling. And to address what you said about losing a major casino group like CR not being a problem to them, sorry, but you're just wrong about that. It might not literally threaten their existence, but it would be a big, big deal.

Also this topic has come up many times on different forums. There is zero doubt, supported by piles of evidence, that both Neteller and Moneybookers will do the bidding of their merchants when a player is deemed to be "abusive".

This doesn't seem to fit all the evidence. If these HUGE fees are taken from gross revenue, rather than volume, how come there are many cases where casinos REFUSE to pay back to Neteller, even where the deposit has come from there. Surely paying back to Neteller CUTS the amount of gross revenue used by Neteller to calculate the fees. If these fees are so much LARGER than those charged by VISA, it would even make sense for casinos to repay the proceeds of card deposits back to Neteller when a player requests this, in order to both please the player AND cut the fees charged.

Some casinos offer EXTRA for Neteller deposits, yet NOT for VISA deposits, which seems to suggest the opposite, that VISA is more expensive for the casino than Neteller.

Given these huge fees, why do casinos continue to be "bled dry", rather than "rattling their sabres" and threatening to ditch Neteller unless they reduce their fees to a more reasonable level. If Neteller is so dependent on casinos, surely they WILL take notice if they find they risk losing the business, whereas VISA don't care about the loss of the gambling market so much.

Neteller may do the casino's bidding BECAUSE this is where they make the money, and by returning money to a casino from an "abusive" player they INCREASE the "gross revenue" figure, and thus get MORE in fees from that merchant.

If the casinos are struggling with the current eWallets, why don't we see more in the way of competition. Ivobank tried to shake up the market, but couldn't get enough merchants to accept them as an alternative to Neteller and Moneybookers, and so quickly died.

 

[AFlansburg]

Almost all players get paid at Casino Rewards!

did nt understand yr posting . its a large group they give nice bonuses and i never heard of an unpaid player there , at least amongst that did terms a cond ,

Most all players get paid at casino rewards, sometimes it just takes a few months. I notice that casino meister doesnt take a stand on casino rewards. their not an accredited casino nor are they rouged, so what is their position.
I had a 150.00 cashout from Grand Mondial that was to be paid the day casino rewards took over, and it still is not paid. The cashout was supposed to be paid on the 13th Feb. I have been in constant contact with the CR affiliate and CR's Payment Processor since 17th Feb and everyday the payment is coming today, but never comes. If you have an unlimited bankroll, then no problem. But if all you have to play on is your last cashout, then your SOL.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Most all players get paid at casino rewards, sometimes it just takes a few months. I notice that casino meister doesnt take a stand on casino rewards. their not an accredited casino nor are they rouged, so what is their position.
I had a 150.00 cashout from Grand Mondial that was to be paid the day casino rewards took over, and it still is not paid. The cashout was supposed to be paid on the 13th Feb. I have been in constant contact with the CR affiliate and CR's Payment Processor since 17th Feb and everyday the payment is coming today, but never comes. If you have an unlimited bankroll, then no problem. But if all you have to play on is your last cashout, then your SOL.

This is more of a Playshare issue, and PLAYSHARE should have dealt with your payment since it was requested BEFORE CR took over.

It's possible that your payment has been "lost in the system", and CR don't actually have it, nor any reliable record to prove it has not been paid, or even exists.

They may be saying "any day soon" under the mistaken assumtion that it is still "in the works", and does not have to be reissued.

This does not look like there was an organised change of ownership, but rather that Playshare "did a runner", leaving a load of unfinished business that was THEIR responsibilty for CR to clear up when they flew their team out to Playshare's offices.

Playshare have simply never commented on this takeover, and seem to have simply vanished, and the fact that even BEFORE there was any announcement the Playshare CS team were unreachable by all means makes the "did a runner" explanation more plausable. Normally during a take over like this, the existing team will stick around to help make sure the process goes smoothly, and rather than a couple of days with NO-ONE at the helm, there would be a couple of days sailing with TWO captains on duty.

After 14 days, players who have STILL not received payments disrupted by this move can make formal complaints to eCogra. This comes under eCogra rules that operators have 14 days to settle issues internally before a formal complaint can be dealt with.

 

[oren1976]

Only one player confirmed positive resolution by Ecogra and I couldn't understand was it in the past year, as my conclusition of their suspected connection to big operations like Ecgra starts around a year ago, before that they still didn't have that kind of power. Was it a year ago that Ecogra helped you or before, and please if more players got positive resolution please publish it here, also negative resolution are welcome to see where we stand

I strongly believe Casinorewards have some sort of very good relation with Ecogra and silent agreement to agree with his feelings when it comes to a no pay

 

[whatever]

Incident happened in May (first half), I complained to eCogra in June (around 15th) and I received what I was due at the end of July.