Do I have grounds to request a deposit refund? Malina Casino / Araxio Development NV

Kenny_Loggins

Newbie member
Joined
Jul 19, 2020
Location
Poland
Hello everyone,

first of all I wanted to say that I am a recovering problem gambler who sadly took a wrong turn yesterday and gambled.

Summary of my issue:
A month ago I requested for self-exclusion at Rabona - a website owned and operated by Araxio Development NV (Curacao).

I am a Polish resident and there are only a number of online casinos available for me. Most online casinos either do not take deposits from Poland or are blocked completely. Knowing that Araxio Development NV is not one of them I wanted to exclude myself not only from Rabona.com but also from any other Araxio websites to which I knew I could deposit money.

Therefore, I specifically instructed Rabona's support:
"Please have my account deleted. I would also like to self-exclude from any gambling activities organized by Rabona and Araxio Development NV."

I also informed them about my gambling problem. They agreed and closed my account.

Yesterday I did not handle myself well, completely lost control and decided to gamble. I managed to find a website from which I had not been excluded - Malinacasino.com. I gambled away ~2000 USD. It turns out that Malina Casino is also owned and operated (key word here) by Araxio Development NV which I specifically instructed to be self-excluded from.

Technically my self-exclusion request was issued to Rabona's support but I wanted to be as efficient as I can to avoid excluding myself from single websites one at a time.
What is key here is that both Rabona and Malina are - according to their pages - "websites owned and operated by Araxio Development NV".

With that said, my opinion is that my bets should not have been accepted by Malina yesterday. I even suppose that I may have not been to withdraw my winnings (had I have any) due to being self-excluded from "gambling activities organized by Araxio Development NV" which is clearly the sole operator of both Rabona and Malina.

Malina's response
I emailed Malina describing all of the above and as expected they are refusing to refund my post Araxio Development NV exclusion deposits (~2000 USD).

They refer to their T&C, quoting:

you created your account, you were acting on your own behalf, as per 5.1 of Terms&Conditions:
" You are acting on your own behalf." and
5.3 You do not have a gambling addiction."
What's more, in addition to the point of Terms&Conditions above, all deposits cannot be recalled or paid back. Please, see the corresponding terms point:
" 6.7 Deposits cannot be recalled or paid back. and
6.26 We are not liable for any losses or damages which could be potentially caused by gambling."

My question is - should I fight this? If yes, what should be my next steps?
I believe I am entitled to the refund, although I am anxious to see senior forum members' opinion.

Thank you.
 

Kenny_Loggins

Newbie member
Joined
Jul 19, 2020
Location
Poland
Quick update - here is my reply to Malina:

"As much as I agree both Rabona and Malina are different websites (or casino brands) - both websites are owned and managed by same legal entity, Araxio Development NV.

It means both websites have the same operator and they both operate under same e-Gaming license number 8048/JAZ.

Also, according to Curacao e-Gaming's General Terms and Conditions - applicable to 8048/JAZ sublicense: "an online gaming provider is any entity, sublicensed by CeG to provide online gaming services, licensed by Curacao Gaming Control Board.". I believe that the master license issuer's terms and definitions are superior to the website's T&C.

Therefore by this definition the online gaming provider in this scenario is Araxio Development NV specifically.

The fact is that I specifically asked to be self-excluded from all Araxio Development NV gambling activities and my request has been sent to the very online gaming provider this request concerned which is Araxio Development NV. And yes, I did not issue the request to Malina mailbox but the request has been sent to the same online gaming provider/operator.

I may not be held responsible for any internal self-exclusion communication issues between Araxio's Development NV websites purely because my request has been sent to the operator asking to be self-excluded from the operator websites. I am afraid that it works both ways - had I won at Malina and issued my withdrawal request, you would have been entitled to confiscate my winnings.

In the light of the above the case seems to be quite simple:

Araxio's Development NV failed to recognize self-exclusion across its' websites and allowed me to deposit and make bets after a very clear and specific request to self-exclude due to problem gambling across all Araxio's gambling services. All my bets should be voided.

As for the T&C points, my comments are in bold:

You are acting on your own behalf."
Agreed. I do not see how it is relevant here. I am not stating otherwise.

5.3 You do not have a gambling addiction."
First of all this agreement is being made upon account opening. Second of all, prior to depositing 7400 PLN I informed the operator about my gambling problem. Same operator (via Malina website) has let me deposit 7400 PLN having being informed about my gambling problem and receiving self-exclusion request. Same operator (Araxio Development NV) speaking blatantly violated Responsible Gambling regulations issued by it's licensor.

What's more, in addition to the point of Terms&Conditions above, all deposits cannot be recalled or paid back. Please, see the corresponding terms point:
" 6.7 Deposits cannot be recalled or paid back. and
In normal conditions, yes. This does not account for Responsible Gambling regulations being violated. All my bets should have been voided. The deposit should not have been allowed in the first place.

6.26 We are not liable for any losses or damages which could be potentially caused by gambling."
I am not holding you responsible for my losses or damages so no issue here. My standpoint is merely that the deposit should have been blocked / all bets voided."

Let me know what do you guys think. If they disagree - where should I escalate?
 

Harry_BKK

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Location
Balcony
Sorry but no chance to have even another sniff at that money.

A Curacao licence is not much worth and such casinos should only be used when they have a good track record. Araxio can be considered one of the better ones as they cleaned up their act in the last 2 years and even opened casinos with Swedish and MGA licences under Romix Ltd (e.g. Light Casino, YoYo Casino).

Why do you deposit $2000 when they have a daily withdrawal limit of $500 and $10,000/month? I would never deposit that much knowing that even just half a decent win will take then weeks and weeks to withdraw.

That being said, they have no obligation to exclude you across their brands as it is not in the licence code/regulation. For Curacao casinos, the SE is still valid per brand only (if they are so honest and honour it at all. Many will simply let you reopen your account).

Sorry, but I think the better solution for you is to forget about the money and install
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
on all your devices.
 

Kenny_Loggins

Newbie member
Joined
Jul 19, 2020
Location
Poland
Sorry but no chance to have even another sniff at that money.

A Curacao licence is not much worth and such casinos should only be used when they have a good track record. Araxio can be considered one of the better ones as they cleaned up their act in the last 2 years and even opened casinos with Swedish and MGA licences under Romix Ltd (e.g. Light Casino, YoYo Casino).

Why do you deposit $2000 when they have a daily withdrawal limit of $500 and $10,000/month? I would never deposit that much knowing that even just half a decent win will take then weeks and weeks to withdraw.

That being said, they have no obligation to exclude you across their brands as it is not in the licence code/regulation. For Curacao casinos, the SE is still valid per brand only (if they are so honest and honour it at all. Many will simply let you reopen your account).

Sorry, but I think the better solution for you is to forget about the money and install
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
on all your devices.
Thanks for your reply.

I do not quite agree as those are websites only and all casinos are operated by same legal entity which is the key factor here.

As I highlighted previously, in this case it's clear that the operator has failed to recognize my self-exclusion request across its' websites.

After my clarification (previous post) Malina has just requested a credit card scan confirmation prior to processing the refund so hopefully the funds will be back with me in a couple of days.
 

SpinUk

Meister Member
PABnonaccred
MM
Joined
Oct 10, 2012
Location
London
Was going to say don’t waste your time but I may stand corrected judging by the last post. Will be a first that I have seen.

Also just to let you know that by providing that to her it would be impossible for you to claim a fraudulant chargeback, so she may just be requesting for that purpose
 

Kenny_Loggins

Newbie member
Joined
Jul 19, 2020
Location
Poland
Was going to say don’t waste your time but I may stand corrected judging by the last post. Will be a first that I have seen.

Also just to let you know that by providing that to her it would be impossible for you to claim a fraudulant chargeback, so she may just be requesting for that purpose

That's very cheeky - wouldn't expect that. Thanks. How would that help them dispute the chargeback?
 

Playford7

Meister Member
MM
Joined
Jul 10, 2016
Location
North east England
My one and only chargeback years back really wasn’t that difficult.

Natwest bank it was, basically wasn’t given what was promised.
Exhausted live chat and emails trying to resolve it, had emails from agents laughing at me infact.

Spoke to my bank and got a case manager, I sent him the offers they lied about and didn’t credit me, the terms and conditions etc

I also sent live chat transcripts and emails from the casino (thrills) btw

within 3 days I had all I was owed back into my bank no issues at all.

nothing fraudulent at all, the casino tried to have my pants down and they picked on the wrong hombre.

this was before I was a member here I must add, and only at a very very last resort do a chargeback and be very positive your 110% in the right as it will come back to bite you either way, always try here first.

As much as me and max don’t see eye to eye about certain issues he’s clearly good at what he does (pab)

caused me hassle at other casinos across the brands for years, was only after becoming a member here I got help resolving it all.

tread very Carefully with a chargeback is all I’m saying. Totally and utterly the last resort after all other avenues have been exhausted.
 

Kenny_Loggins

Newbie member
Joined
Jul 19, 2020
Location
Poland
Chooo choooo!... all aboard!..
While I'm loving the fun you guys are having here, aside from being a problem gambler I can also be a quite sensible chap - I sent the credit card copies with a note that I do not allow them to use them for any purpose other than their KYC process (put a watermark with my own signature on the print).

Nevertheless, it seems not to be the case as today my refund request has been approved:

"Yes, we confirm that the refund request has been approved and the payment will be processed once the KYC team completes the verification of the documents you provided."

My argumentation was quite solid and I really did not see a reason why they should not have grant me the refund.

All the best,
Kenny
 

Harry_BKK

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Location
Balcony
That would be a total surprise if it happens and a sign that Araxio indeed has cleaned up its act.

However, please update once again when you actually receive the refund as they still say "once the KYC team completes the verification of the documents you provided."
 

Kenny_Loggins

Newbie member
Joined
Jul 19, 2020
Location
Poland
That would be a total surprise if it happens and a sign that Araxio indeed has cleaned up its act.

However, please update once again when you actually receive the refund as they still say "once the KYC team completes the verification of the documents you provided."
Agreed. It also depends on how you look at it - many users may have been given up already at the point where Malina first told me that I have no chance at the refund. They tried to shut me down on the grounds that Rabona and Malina are different casinos.

They ceased only when I actually made an effort into digging at the nomenclature and definitions used by their licensor which clearly proves that they are only different websites and the casino operator is in fact same legal entity. I can assume many users would have already given up at this stage.

Short update: I just received an email that my withdrawal has been processed by their finance department and the funds should be back on my MasterCard within 5 working days.

Now that this matter is resolved it's clearly time to clean up my own act and take permanent break from gambling.

What would you advise me is the easiest way of self-excluding myself across all online casinos available for me as a Polish resident? I am thinking of issuing letters to all licensors directly - what do you think?
 

danofthewibble

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2018
Location
UK
You have been very lucky if they refund you - they didn't need to.

I'd phone your bank and ask if they can block all gambling transactions permanently on the card side. You'll still need self-control as that'll only work if the operator processes it as a gambling transaction (less reputable operators don't), but that would be a good start.
 

Gaz237

Meister Member
MM
Joined
May 8, 2014
Location
chelmsford UK
Gaz is third carriage, the one going through the lamb chops like Bonanza goes through a deposit.

View attachment 143052

I don't eat lamb chops, ya need 6 to get a decent feed.

I have a 9 litre slow cooker. A nice leg of lamb (sometimes have to trim the end bone with a hacksaw to fit it in) smidgen of spices, 5-6 hours depending on size. Meat melts in your mouth.
 

Kenny_Loggins

Newbie member
Joined
Jul 19, 2020
Location
Poland
I don't eat lamb chops, ya need 6 to get a decent feed.

I have a 9 litre slow cooker. A nice leg of lamb (sometimes have to trim the end bone with a hacksaw to fit it in) smidgen of spices, 5-6 hours depending on size. Meat melts in your mouth.
Loving your input, mate! I'll have some for the 2000 USD that just arrived at my account.

Case closed successfully.
 
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