Corona virus - Covid 19 discussion

[Kroffe]

It's godwin's law again, and will derail a hitherto focused discussion.

Thing is im not trying to bring the discussion to be about that, im trying (but failing apparently) to explain why it absolutely shouldnt be about that, and why its disrespectful and wrong to even suggest the situations are the same.

Anti-vaxxers&Anti-maskers has long been about that comparison tho.
Its not something new, even tho its new in this thread.
I guess its to make what they are doing seem bigger & more important than what it is.

 

[mack341]

Thing is im not trying to bring the discussion to be about that, im trying to explain why it absolutely shouldnt be about that, and why its disrespectful and wrong to even suggest the situations are the same.

Anti-vaxxers&Anti-maskers has long been about that comparison tho.
Its not something new, even tho its new in this thread.
I guess its to make what they are doing seem bigger & more important than what it is.

Is it tho, or a few posts or voices. That's the problem of having icke or corbyn's brother doing speeches, it will polarise and divide and be used to characterise the opposition to the changes. Easy targets to ridicule, which is like throwing up chaff.

 

[Kroffe]

Is it tho, or a few posts or voices. That's the problem of having icke or corbyn's brother doing speeches, it will polarise and divide and be used to characterise the opposition to the changes. Easy targets to ridiicule, which is like throwing up chaff.

Alex Jones, Stew Peters etc have people following them and believing the crazy shit they say.

If this thread is anything to go by, those 'few posts and voices' goes a long way to influence people.

 

[mack341]

Alex Jones, Stew Peters etc have people following them and believing the crazy shit they say.

If this thread is anything to go by, those 'few posts and voices' goes a long way to influence people.

Stew peters i have watched once, interviewing peter mcwhatshisname, on that showing i wouldn't equate him to AJ territory, but obviously there must be an element of sensationalism to get viewers, and then finding enough people to interview to fill their show time up.

Because the msm haven't done any opposing of the measures, other media from the 'alternative news' world suddenly find they have a growing audience looking for opposing opinion. The lack of variety of opinion is a big msm problem, doesn't reflect real day to day life experience or science.

 

[Kroffe]

Stew peters i have watched once, interviewing peter mcwhatshisname, on that showing i wouldn't equate him to AJ territory, but obviously there must be an element of sensationalism to get viewers, and then finding enough people to interview to fill their show time up.

Because the msm haven't done any opposing of the measures, other media from the 'alternative news' world suddenly find they have a growing audience looking for opposing opinion. The lack of variety of opinion is a big msm problem, doesn't reflect real day to day life experience or science.

Only seen that clip where hes trying to sell the woman that worked in pr for pfizer during 2 years in the 90s as an 'insider'
He almost immediately was asking about 5g brain control stuff, which even that 'insider' was not comfortable giving her opinion on.
Sure, maybe hes not as 'out there' as Alex Jones, but thats not setting the bar very high imo.

I agree the mainstream news can be very one sided, cant say i watch alot of news, but surely there must be something inbetween Mainstream news and Stew/Alex.
Seems like such a big leap for there to be nothing inbetween.

 

[sufferinsilence]

Stew peters i have watched once, interviewing peter mcwhatshisname, on that showing i wouldn't equate him to AJ territory, but obviously there must be an element of sensationalism to get viewers, and then finding enough people to interview to fill their show time up.

Because the msm haven't done any opposing of the measures, other media from the 'alternative news' world suddenly find they have a growing audience looking for opposing opinion. The lack of variety of opinion is a big msm problem, doesn't reflect real day to day life experience or science.

Belgian papers and news programs on TV, mostly the Flemish part, have been giving a voice to scientists that aren't as mainstream and have opposing views. I mean, not the "out there crazies" but decent discussions and interviews.

Perhaps that's why we have one of the highest vax % in the world as a region because we certainly aren't forcing needles into peoples arms.

 

[dealer wins]

At least we can put the lockdown/mask/restriction argument to bed now, all they did was cause poverty, mental health issues, illness and desperation.

Vax making covid worse, and being deadly will be fully evidenced within 12 months max.

 

[mack341]

Seen a headline today, sage scientist says future lockdowns not answer or something like that, I think the reality is the govt can't afford another major one, and it just creates huge hospital waiting lists for other health issues, it was never a sustainable policy with a clear benefit to harms ratio, so now the sage advice changes. It's got them to where they wanted, the domestic covid passport/aka the start of a digital ID system. [ possibly also a social credit system, incorporating your climate+carbon footprint down the line ]

 

[mack341]

Belgian papers and news programs on TV, mostly the Flemish part, have been giving a voice to scientists that aren't as mainstream and have opposing views. I mean, not the "out there crazies" but decent discussions and interviews.

Perhaps that's why we have one of the highest vax % in the world as a region because we certainly aren't forcing needles into peoples arms.

I think there could be a lot to this in terms of how you see things depending on the coverage in your country, strangely france is leading the authoritarian way, i wouldn't have expected that.

 

[dealer wins]

Seen a headline today, sage scientist says future lockdowns not answer or something like that, I think the reality is the govt can't afford another major one, and it just creates huge hospital waiting lists for other health issues, it was never a sustainable policy with a clear benefit to harms ratio, so now the sage advice changes. It's got them to where they wanted, the domestic covid passport/aka the start of a digital ID system. [ possibly also a social credit system, incorporating your climate+carbon footprint down the line ]

Thats the whole reason why covid was gain of functioned and released.

Literally the plan.

People think im an evil ignorant cunt, but time will judge me weather Im an evil ignorant cunt, or someone trying to save us from this nightmare.

People needing to disclose their medical info to go into a supermarket or participate in society in France, Spain, Italy, Cyprus etc does sort suggest I may be right lol

And sorry, but anyone who uses a vax passport is complicit in this evil, jabbed or not.

 

[mack341]

Thats the whole reason why covid was gain of functioned and released.

Literally the plan.

People think im an evil ignorant cunt, but time will judge me weather Im an evil ignorant cunt, or someone trying to save us from this nightmare.

People needing to disclose their medical info to go into a supermarket or participate in society in France, Spain, Italy, Cyprus etc does sort suggest I may be right lol

And sorry, but anyone who uses a vax passport is complicit in this evil, jabbed or not.

I suppose enough of the younger generations coming through, who probably have had some sort of tablet device from age 5, and a fully digital lifestyle- music, tv, ebooks, movies and games, will see no issues with this next step. I can't envisage it working, but no doubt it will be a gradual creep as people just get use to it and accept it. If france (+elsewhere) resist enough maybe it will be downgraded to just for international travel, with a negative test also accepted. I hope desantis in the US is very careful with his travel arrangements and security, he seems to be providing strong opposition and leadership.

 

[mack341]

Yes i didn't imagine it

Professor Andrew Hayward, a University College

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epidemiologist and SAGE member, said future restrictions to control outbreaks should 'target the most vulnerable', rather than involving disruptive restrictions imposed on everyone...
Professor Hayward said resorting to population-wide measures to control outbreaks will no longer be acceptable


That sounds very similar to the barrington declaration to me.
Also:

Professor Andrew Hayward said if scientists came up with a vaccine more effective at stopping the spread of the virus, it could be eradicated.
'For more infectious variants, such as the Delta variant, the herd immunity threshold will be higher.

'But also of course the completeness of our immunity is important to consider here.

'Whilst the vaccines are absolutely excellent at preventing severe disease and hospitalisation - probably like 95 per cent effective - they are only around maybe 60 per cent effective at preventing infection.

'And for some of the other variants, maybe less than that.

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What's the betting that with time the protection from severe illness wanes, and how can this vaccine give 95% protection across the board, the same to a frail 70yr old as to a fit person aged 30?

 

[mack341]

Why do they have to stick that bud right up your nose, if you're infectious covid wouldn't be sitting in isolation in one place surely.

​

 

[electronictonic]

Another expert sounded the alarm, but in the eyes of the 99.9% she is a nobody because it was posted on facebook and not the holy untouchable 3 letter news channels.

quite a few alternative figures posted last year that the media would blame the unvaccinated
divide and conquer, oldest trick in the book,

 

[mack341]

Another expert sounded the alarm, but in the eyes of the 99.9% she is a nobody because it was posted on facebook and not the holy untouchable 3 letter news channels.

quite a few alternative figures posted last year that the media would blame the unvaccinated
divide and conquer, oldest trick in the book,

Good find, I wish more docs and scientists would speak up if they feel we're being led astray; what's wrong with letting adult patients and docs choose which way they want to go, to be able to try Ivermectin, intravenous zinc and vit c etc... which have either obtained results for some or have a scientific basis for helping the body fight off an illness.

At the moment all we have is a half effective experimental vaccine and steroids. Plus there are some antibody supplements, but after buying 500 million doses last year, so far the US is not using them according to Peter mccullough

 

[dealer wins]

Considering last summer without any vaccine, and a population still quite susceptible to covid, it all but disappeared, and this summer, with 75% + of adults jabbed, its 10x worse.

Israel is seeing even worse numbers as they have 90% jabbed.

It doesnt take Einstein to realise the vaccine is bad.

And god help us come winter if this is ADE, as we will be looking at 100,000s of serious and fatal cases, almost exclusively in the vaccinated cohort.

And add in pathogenic priming, prions disease, autoimmune disease and cancer, all warned by credible experts, silenced by "the narrative" but all top experts in their field.

 

[mack341]

Considering last summer without any vaccine, and a population still quite susceptible to covid, it all but disappeared, and this summer, with 75% + of adults jabbed, its 10x worse.

Israel is seeing even worse numbers as they have 90% jabbed.

It doesnt take Einstein to realise the vaccine is bad.

And god help us come winter if this is ADE, as we will be looking at 100,000s of serious and fatal cases, almost exclusively in the vaccinated cohort.

And add in pathogenic priming, prions disease, autoimmune disease and cancer, all warned by credible experts, silenced by "the narrative" but all top experts in their field.

For arguments sake If the vaccines were advantageous at some point for the old and vulnerable, by giving them to the young who are out mixing more and coming into contact with covid, I think you're in effect allowing the virus more chance to mutate against the vaccine, as it keeps coming across the same spike antibodies; via natural selection covid will then favour the structure which evolves to get past the vaccine more and replicate.

Then the vaccine will no longer protect the old and vulnerable as well as it did. It would have been better to shield the vulnerable and vaccinate them only, let enough of the fit and healthy use ivermectin (and other things) and build up broad natural immunity.

If you looked at the strategy from big pharma's angle, which one would make them the most revenue, then it's the current strategy, as new vaccines and boosters are going to be required to fight covid all over again. Big pharma always prefers to create medicines that control symptoms rather than cure disease, that way you get repeat sales rather than a one off.

 

[dealer wins]

Mack, its a terrible mistake vaccinating anyone under 50, that I genuinely believe will cost the lives of 1000s and 1000s, if not millions of lives over the coming next 1-3 winters. And thats just from ADE, god help us if it does have problems such as prions, autoimmune disease, cancers, infertility etc. All these have been warned by credible experts.

Just because MSM have silenced them, doesnt mean they are not right. These are 30 yr career experts at the top of their science!

 

[mack341]

Mack, its a terrible mistake vaccinating anyone under 50, that I genuinely believe will cost the lives of 1000s and 1000s, if not millions of lives over the coming next 1-3 winters. And thats just from ADE, god help us if it does have problems such as prions, autoimmune disease, cancers, infertility etc. All these have been warned by credible experts.

Just because MSM have silenced them, doesnt mean they are not right. These are 30 yr career experts at the top of their science!

According to geert vanden bossche's latest paper:

It is difficult to imagine how administration of an ‘updated’ booster vaccine would not even precipitate viral resistance as it would increase the likelihood of a strong recall effect on previously elicited Abs (i.e., Abs that are specific to the original S-based vaccine) due to antigenic sin. Suboptimal recognition of the evolving, more infectious circulating variant(s) by these ‘old’ Abs could be of substantial concern since antigens that are poorly matched to Ag-binding Abs might contribute to triggering Ab-dependent enhancement of disease (ADE).

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so far the govt scientists and msm ones have been wrong, as they said the vaccines would stop transmission and get us to herd immunity, (what oz and nzl were counting on) they're having to backtrack on that now, but millions are about to take their advice on the boosters.​

 

[geordiecolin]

Considering last summer without any vaccine, and a population still quite susceptible to covid, it all but disappeared, and this summer, with 75% + of adults jabbed, its 10x worse.

Israel is seeing even worse numbers as they have 90% jabbed.

It doesnt take Einstein to realise the vaccine is bad.

And god help us come winter if this is ADE, as we will be looking at 100,000s of serious and fatal cases, almost exclusively in the vaccinated cohort.

And add in pathogenic priming, prions disease, autoimmune disease and cancer, all warned by credible experts, silenced by "the narrative" but all top experts in their field.

Quite a % of those Israelis have had a third jab according to their latest statistics.

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The more important statistic is the difference in Israelis and Palestinians. They intermix and are obviously next door. The Palestinians are not vaccinated yet their cases are rock bottom but the vaccinated Israelis make up most of the hospitalized and deaths
The vaccine is the cause of most cases. Or Delta if you like?

 

[mack341]

As long as there is the core dishonesty going they'll find a way to blame the unvaxxed, soon it might stretch to the double vaxxed, with only the triple vax worthwhile and effective.

 

[mack341]

 

[mack341]

 

[mack341]

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This is why vaccine passports will destroy liberal democracy as we know it. They will be like Cambridge Analytica on crack. I should know: I used to be the Lead Psychologist there, and yet vaccine passports’ ramifications for data privacy and psychological manipulation are so concerning that even I have a problem with them.

(AND)....The key to such massive social change is what the Behavioural Insights Team call “radical incrementalism”. Consider it like compound interest, or “boiling a frog”: tiny changes meet little resistance but make a huge difference over time. This is how the government has operated under COVID-19. Whether it’s lockdowns, face masks, or vaccine passports, politicians have followed the same three-stepped approach: deny, then debate, then demand. The initial denial puts people’s fears at bay, while seeding the idea so that it is more palatable in the future; then, once the foot is in the door, the dial is slowly turned up. Just a few months ago, the government denied that vaccine passports would happen; today, they are introducing them, while denying that they would be used in supermarkets.

The government will say anything to get people to accept vaccine passports in principle today — including that they will be temporary and will only apply to certain venues. Once the vaccine passports are accepted, politicians will be able to move the goalposts with the minimum of resistance. In reality, the passports are likely to be only for nightclubs in the same way that the lockdowns were to be only for a few weeks.

In The Gulag Archipelago, Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn elucidates on this “foot-in-the-door” technique: “At what point, then, should one resist? When one’s belt is taken away? When one is ordered to face into a corner? When one crosses the threshold of one’s home? An arrest consists of a series of incidental irrelevancies, of a multitude of things that do not matter, and there seems no point in arguing about one of them individually… and yet all these incidental irrelevancies taken together implacably constitute the arrest.”

As the global powers are trying to get their foot in the door with vaccine passports, it is critical that we slam that door shut now, and bolt it permanently. Pandemics, as awful as they are, come and go in relatively short spans of time. Periods of oppression can last for centuries.

 

[dealer wins]

Great post mack!!

I am certain that every bit of covid has been planned prior to 1st case. From the gain of function research, to its release, and the vaccines, all for one reason, eventual China style biometric ID and "Green" allowances etc

I know, Im a nutter, but I am feeling less and less like a nutter every day this shitshow goes on, and citizens around the world are being dragged into communism hell!

 

[electronictonic]

Love it, everyone who gets confronted like this should ask the same questions back.

 

[bowki]

Yeah really funny, Karen. Ha ha ha ha

Let's annoy that poor waitress with our bullshit because she is the one who made the rules.

 

[Kroffe]

Yeah really funny, Karen. Ha ha ha ha

Let's annoy that poor waitress with our bullshit because she is the one who made the rules.

Most likely never happened anyway, but it is a weird fantasy.
Harass some low level employee that would have had nothing to do with the decision to ask for vaccine cards in the first place.
Just awful.

Anyone thinking this is a good idea and that everyone should be doing it should seriously reconsider what they are doing with their life.

But they dont have it easy.
Just the other day another 300 anti-vax researchers got banned from from social media.

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[Steviedoo]

The real pandemic is the misinformation about the pandemic.

 

[Kroffe]

The real pandemic is the misinformation about the pandemic.

Funnily enough, both sides seem to agree about that.
No matter if you think the vaccine works as they say it does, or if you think its a lethal poison making you magnetic, both sides agree that misinformation is the problem.

 

[mack341]

Do you think possibly it could be the same group of misinformers behind these 300 accounts, rather than 300 individuals who believe the vaxxes will turn you into a chimp?

Most likely never happened anyway, but it is a weird fantasy.
Harass some low level employee that would have had nothing to do with the decision to ask for vaccine cards in the first place.
Just awful.

Anyone thinking this is a good idea and that everyone should be doing it should seriously reconsider what they are doing with their life.

But they dont have it easy.
Just the other day another 300 anti-vax researchers got banned from from social media.

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[Kroffe]

Do you think possibly it could be the same group of misinformers behind these 300 accounts, rather than 300 individuals who believe the vaxxes will turn you into a chimp?

I think the article said it was a Russian misinformation campaign, so most likely created by one person, or a group of people.
Not legit accounts.
While this one was a bit over the top silly, it wouldnt be a stretch to think that claims about 5g, brain control, magnetism from vaccines etc. also originated in misinformation campaigns.
And people seem willing to believe that, so no doubt people would latch on to this claim aswell.

Edit: Article says: "Facebook has banned over 300 misinformation accounts linked to a Russian misinformation network."

 

[mack341]

I think the article said it was a Russian misinformation campaign, so most likely created by one person, or a group of people.
Not legit accounts.
While this one was a bit over the top silly, it wouldnt be a stretch to think that Russian misinforation campaigns are behind the claims about 5g, brain control, magnetism etc. aswell.
And people seem willing to believe that, so no doubt people would latch on to this claim aswell.

Edit: Article says: "Facebook has banned over 300 misinformation accounts linked to a Russian misinformation network."

While I haven't read much of these theories I'd categorise them into the same groups that like ufo articles etc..doesn't worry me on the whole, just make up the rich tapestry of life. I happen to believe it's possible some cures or research/inventions have been suppressed, that's another area in alternative debate.

On the vaxxes there are plenty of docs&profs, and trained scientists with concerns, however 5g etc...is not part of the conversation, so there is a clear separation.

 

[Kroffe]

While I haven't read much of these theories I'd categorise them into the same groups that like ufo articles etc..doesn't worry me on the whole, just make up the rich tapestry of life. I happen to believe it's possible some cures or research/inventions have been suppressed, that's another area in alternative debate.

On the vaxxes there are plenty of docs&profs, and trained scientists with concerns, however 5g etc...is not part of the conversation, so there is a clear separation.

I also believe that.
Supress cheap stuff and promote what makes them more money.
Does not not mean what they are promoting is not working tho, or that all the 'alternative' medicines are working.
You dont make more money by killing your customers, but many seem to think that is exactly what is happening.

 

[Kroffe]

But nobody is forced to go to the hospital if they become sick.
If they want to stay at home and try alternative treatments they can.
Most of the alternative medicines ive seen mentioned here are easily found and bought for people that want to use them.

I think its weird how many anti-vaxers do go to the hospital when they get sick, instead of just using one of the alternative medicines at home.
If i was convinced the doctors were out to harm me with the horrible vaccine, that is the last place i would go to if i got hurt or sick.

 

[mack341]

But nobody is forced to go to the hospital if they become sick.
If they want to stay at home and try alternative treatments they can.
Most of the alternative medicines ive seen mentioned here are easily found and bought for people that want to use them.

I think its weird how many anti-vaxers do go to the hospital when they get sick, instead of just using one of the alternative medicines at home.
If i was convinced the doctors were out to harm me with the horrible vaccine, that is the last place i would go to if i got hurt or sick.

Yes that is a fair point, and one I might face if or when I catch c19 ?

Alternative should include ivermectin, but any reg doc who prescibes that in the uk will likely never be allowed to practice again. I'm going to start mega dosing vitd from now, take echincea from november. I did read gargling a type of mouthwash is also a good idea to kill or reduce the virus sitting in your throat etc..

 

[slotmaster]

So guess I am not getting it as my doc is not doing them and cant get in to see if I can with my health and cant get a appointment anywhere.

oh well I tried.

 

[sufferinsilence]

Yes that is a fair point, and one I might face if or when I catch c19 ?

Alternative should include ivermectin, but any reg doc who prescibes that in the uk will likely never be allowed to practice again. I'm going to start mega dosing vitd from now, take echincea from november. I did read gargling a type of mouthwash is also a good idea to kill or reduce the virus sitting in your throat etc..

Some people are making serious money selling (counterfeited?) "alternative" meds from India which includes ivermectin and a couple of other drugs and supplements. They ask 10 to 60x the price that it is sold in India...

I like how they just make up their dosages and schedules as they go. Every site or source you check seems to have different amounts or times when you should take pill x, y or z.

Don't really understand how one can trust all of this but to each its own tho.

 

[mack341]

​

 

[dionysus]

2nd jab today; was warned might feel flu-y, seems all good

 

[mack341]

A fairly balanced article from the bbc, not seen one in a long time so makes a change.

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[slotmaster]

Finally got an appointment for today and just got back home from 1st dose of poison, they overbooked appointments and it was warm in there which did not help. So just laying here and hope there are people around on here to talk with while I am trying to figure out if I am feeling o.k. or not and scared shitless,lol.

 

[sufferinsilence]

 

[sufferinsilence]

Can someone who is uptodate on the "alternative" meds for Covid tell me how Fluvoxamine (an anti-depressant) ended up on the list of meds that apparently help? Another drug that is only available through Rx and potentially harmful to people who don't need it.

 

[dealer wins]

Ivermectin has had amazing success wherever its been used.

Its the single reason India doesn't appear on our corrupted MSM TV screens anymore. They deployed it massively, covid went away. Funny that!!!

 

[mack341]

seriously y'all I trust this japanese professor far more than the fda...but obviously don't take the same dose as a half ton animal.

 

[mack341]

Can someone who is uptodate on the "alternative" meds for Covid tell me how Fluvoxamine (an anti-depressant) ended up on the list of meds that apparently help? Another drug that is only available through Rx and potentially harmful to people who don't need it.

Never knew it might help [just shows the censorship going on] but a quick search:

"Fluvoxamine may prevent clinical deterioration by stimulating the σ-1 receptor, which regulates cytokine production."

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Edit: isn't it prozac???

 

[sufferinsilence]

Never knew it might help [just shows the censorship going on] but a quick search:

"Fluvoxamine may prevent clinical deterioration by stimulating the σ-1 receptor, which regulates cytokine production."

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Edit: isn't it prozac???

Thanks for the link.

Prozac is Fluoxetine.

 

[sufferinsilence]

seriously y'all I trust this japanese professor far more than the fda...but obviously don't take the same dose as a half ton animal.

So that's exactly what's been happening in Mississippi apparently.

 

[mack341]

Prof. Eli Schwartz, founder of the Center for Travel Medicine and Tropical Disease at Sheba, conducted a randomized, controlled, double-blinded trial from May 15, 2020, through the end of January 2021 to evaluate the effectiveness of ivermectin in reducing viral shedding among nonhospitalized patients with mild to moderate COVID-19.

“Our study shows first and foremost that ivermectin has antiviral activity,” Schwartz said. “It also shows that there is almost a 100% chance that a person will be noninfectious in four to six days, which could lead to shortening isolation time for these people. This could have a huge economic and social impact.”​

“There is a lot of opposition,” he said. “We tried to publish it, and it was kicked away by three journals. No one even wanted to hear about it. You have to ask how come when the world is suffering.”
“This drug will not bring any big economic profits,” and so Big Pharma doesn’t want to deal with it, he said.

[for some reason the font size can't be corrected]

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Imagine if all through the pandemic from last march, an effective antiviral was left sittiing on the shelf unused, many lives could've been saved, hospitals more able to operate a normal service, treating for other conditions etc...