Corona virus - Covid 19 discussion

[paul7388]

See it works both ways with misinformation.

As people believe there have been 120,000 deaths in UK from Covid which is garbage.

Even just now there have been quoted about 100 covid deaths a day in UK.
But those figures are not covid deaths and it is about time they stopped trying to frighten people.

The country has 2,000 deaths a day normally. Over the last month there has been over half a million covid cases probably a lot more.
Pretty obvious a lot of dying people will have had covid 28 days before death.

Maybe if they gave an honest figure of how many actual deaths there have been from covid instead of trying to scare people then people might have more faith in what the government says.

Instead there are a lot of people actually scared to leave the house as they think they will catch it and die .

 

[paul7388]

To put it in perspective.

We have a flu jag and on average over 15000 people die a year from flu even tho they are vaccinated. And flu has been proven to be cause of death.

We have covid down as 120,000 deaths and as it is within 28 days of catching it who knows how many actual deaths were caused by covid. Far fewer than that number anyway. Also this year no flu deaths at all.

Now say in a bad flu season you tested everyone same as you have for covid. And anyone that had had flu within 28 days was then classed as a flu death.

The daily flu deaths would be through the roof and be more than reported covid deaths.

As for vaccines personally all this 5G crap and magnetism etc. Is all garbage.
But are the vaccines really safe. I have had both. But they are new and rushed. Been far too many side effects and noone knows at all if they will cause any side affects in future.

Yeah I had mine. But if i had a 5 year old kid I would not.be rushing out to get them done.

 

[Kroffe]

See it works both ways with misinformation.

As people believe there have been 120,000 deaths in UK from Covid which is garbage.

Even just now there have been quoted about 100 covid deaths a day in UK.
But those figures are not covid deaths and it is about time they stopped trying to frighten people.

The country has 2,000 deaths a day normally. Over the last month there has been over half a million covid cases probably a lot more.
Pretty obvious a lot of dying people will have had covid 28 days before death.

Maybe if they gave an honest figure of how many actual deaths there have been from covid instead of trying to scare people then people might have more faith in what the government says.

Instead there are a lot of people actually scared to leave the house as they think they will catch it and die .

You can look at total deaths last couple of years.
Of course its impossible to say how much of the increase was caused by covid, but something made it spike in 2020 compared to previous years when it didnt move more than 10k up/down.

 

[paul7388]

You can look at total deaths last couple of years.
Of course its impossible to say how much of the increase was caused by covid, but something made it spike in 2020 compared to previous years when it didnt move more than 10k up/down.

View attachment 157531

Well that would make it 50,000 excess deaths not over a 100,000.

But my dear friend. Show the figures over a 30 year period not 5 years.

You will see deaths were nearly as high as they were now even tho country is now a lot more populated. In fact the deaths were higher by head.

Then the deaths started decreasing for years to less than 500,000 and only been the last several years they have been rising again.

Factoring into the equation deaths from other diseases that have been left untreated the figure is way less than 100.000 as quoted.

ar	Number of deaths	Population (Thousands)	Crude mortality rate (per 100,000 population)	Age-standardised mortality rate (per 100,000 population)
2020	608,002	59,829	1,016.20	1,043.50
2019	530,841	59,440	893.1	925
2018	541,589	59,116	916.1	965.4
2017	533,253	58,745	907.7	965.3
2016	525,048	58,381	899.3	966.9
2015	529,655	57,885	915	993.2
2014	501,424	57,409	873.4	953
2013	506,790	56,948	889.9	985.9
2012	499,331	56,568	882.7	987.4
2011	484,367	56,171	862.3	978.6
2010	493,242	55,692	885.7	1,017.10
2009	491,348	55,235	889.6	1,033.80
2008	509,090	54,842	928.3	1,091.90
2007	504,052	54,387	926.8	1,091.80
2006	502,599	53,951	931.6	1,104.30
2005	512,993	53,575	957.5	1,143.80
2004	514,250	53,152	967.5	1,163.00
2003	539,151	52,863	1,019.90	1,232.10
2002	535,356	52,602	1,017.70	1,231.30
2001	532,498	52,360	1,017.00	1,236.20
2000	537,877	52,140	1,031.60	1,266.40
1999	553,532	51,933	1,065.80	1,320.20
1998	553,435	51,720	1,070.10	1,327.20
1997	558,052	51,560	1,082.30	1,350.80
1996	563,007	51,410	1,095.10	1,372.50
1995	565,902	51,272	1,103.70	1,392.00
1994	551,780	51,116	1,079.50	1,374.90
1993	578,512	50,986	1,134.70	1,453.40
1992	558,313	50,876	1,097.40	1,415.00
1991	570,044	50,748	1,123.30	1,464.30
1990	564,846	50,561	1,117.20

 

[Kroffe]

Well that would make it 50,000 excess deaths not over a 100,000.

But my dear friend. Show the figures over a 30 year period not 5 years.

You will see deaths were nearly as high as they were now even tho country is now a lot more populated. In fact the deaths were higher by head.

Then the deaths started decreasing for years to less than 500,000 and only been the last several years they have been rising again.

Factoring into the equation deaths from other diseases that have been left untreated the figure is way less than 100.000 as quoted.

ar	Number of deaths	Population (Thousands)	Crude mortality rate (per 100,000 population)	Age-standardised mortality rate (per 100,000 population)
2020	608,002	59,829	1,016.20	1,043.50
2019	530,841	59,440	893.1	925
2018	541,589	59,116	916.1	965.4
2017	533,253	58,745	907.7	965.3
2016	525,048	58,381	899.3	966.9
2015	529,655	57,885	915	993.2
2014	501,424	57,409	873.4	953
2013	506,790	56,948	889.9	985.9
2012	499,331	56,568	882.7	987.4
2011	484,367	56,171	862.3	978.6
2010	493,242	55,692	885.7	1,017.10
2009	491,348	55,235	889.6	1,033.80
2008	509,090	54,842	928.3	1,091.90
2007	504,052	54,387	926.8	1,091.80
2006	502,599	53,951	931.6	1,104.30
2005	512,993	53,575	957.5	1,143.80
2004	514,250	53,152	967.5	1,163.00
2003	539,151	52,863	1,019.90	1,232.10
2002	535,356	52,602	1,017.70	1,231.30
2001	532,498	52,360	1,017.00	1,236.20
2000	537,877	52,140	1,031.60	1,266.40
1999	553,532	51,933	1,065.80	1,320.20
1998	553,435	51,720	1,070.10	1,327.20
1997	558,052	51,560	1,082.30	1,350.80
1996	563,007	51,410	1,095.10	1,372.50
1995	565,902	51,272	1,103.70	1,392.00
1994	551,780	51,116	1,079.50	1,374.90
1993	578,512	50,986	1,134.70	1,453.40
1992	558,313	50,876	1,097.40	1,415.00
1991	570,044	50,748	1,123.30	1,464.30
1990	564,846	50,561	1,117.20

Yeah, i never said the 120k was accurate, im sure its really inflated.
But even looking at last 30 years, the biggest increase was 28k 2014-2015 which is pretty far from the 78k jump 2019-2020

I agree that the fearmongering done by news and papers is bs.
Thats what sells i guess, so thats what we get.

 

[paul7388]

Yeah, i never said the 120k was accurate, im sure its really inflated.
But even looking at last 30 years, the biggest increase was 28k 2014-2015 which is pretty far from the 78k jump 2019-2020

I agree that the fearmongering done by news and papers is bs.
Thats what sells i guess, so thats what we get.

But like i said look at the difference from 2003 to 2014 how the numbers decreased so much by year . But from 2014 till now they have been rising every year. 2011 484,00 deaths. 2018 540,00 deaths.

But agreed last year had maybe 50,000 deaths more. Many from covid but others will be from untreated illnesses due to covid restrictions.

But look at how many deaths flu would cause annually without a vaccination. It would dwarf covid so far. Yes it is a bad virus. But the way the media is trying to scare people and inflate figures and never giving true facts is wrong.

 

[Bunbu]

Compare words of BRANDT KARL with todays words pushed by mainstream.

"Brandt came to believe that the health of society as a whole should take precedence over that of its individual members."

Google history.

 

[cncas2123]

Compare words of BRANDT KARL with todays words pushed by mainstream.

"Brandt came to believe that the health of society as a whole should take precedence over that of its individual members."

Google history.

So you are comparing people who have brought live saving vaccinations, scientists who have advised governments around the world on how to best combat a pandemic and the medical profession that is now saving people's life's with Nazi's?
You are a sick, horrible little man, I truly hope you catch this disease and have to get intubated to see how you like it.

 

[electronictonic]

It's funny how those on the MSM side of the argument flame and fire vitriol at those not on that side, theres a little clique that gets away with murder on here if that was Dealer Wins posting that 5 mins later there would be a mod threating a ban or thread closure.

 

[electronictonic]

So you are comparing people who have brought live saving vaccinations, scientists who have advised governments around the world on how to best combat a pandemic and the medical profession that is now saving people's life's with Nazi's?
You are a sick, horrible little man, I truly hope you catch this disease and have to get intubated to see how you like it.

It's funny how those on the MSM side of the argument flame and fire vitriol at those not on that side, there' s a little clique that gets away with murder on here if that was Dealer Wins posting that 5 mins later there would be a mod threating a ban or thread closure.

 

[cncas2123]

It's funny how those on the MSM side of the argument flame and fire vitriol at those not on that side, there' s a little clique that gets away with murder on here if that was Dealer Wins posting that 5 mins later there would be a mod threating a ban or thread closure.

So you think its ok to equate people working in the NHS with Nazi's?
You think people administering vaccines that are saving lives are on the same level as people who stood by and watched 9 million people get exterminated?
MSN side? You mean the side that is actually looking at facts, data and evidence? Yes im proud to say i can look at the facts rather than vacuum up conspiracy thepry BS.
I will never apologise for calling out BS, and the fact that someone is saying that hats happening today is any where near what happened with the Nazi's is a pure obscenity and I would not mind if people that post that garbage get severe covid and have to get tubes pushed down their throats.
But thats right, Covid doesnt exist in your world and the millions that died only had a bit of a flu.
What an idiot you are. Feel free to report me, and if @Casinomeister wants to kick me into touch thats a price I will have to pay for refusing to let BS pass me by.

 

[Gaz237]

Just heard from my Son.

The whole family went away, as they do every year, all 23 of them, Nan down to Grandkids.

He told me the resort was jam packed, no masks, nothing, impossible to social distance and no measures were in place

They came home Sunday night.

3 of them tested positive for covid yesterday and he has just said another 3 today, one of which is his 80yr old Nan and his girlfriend.

So that's a 10 day quarantine for them all.

5 of them have only had the one jab so far including my Son.

Just hope it all pans out well for them.

 

[sufferinsilence]

So you think its ok to equate people working in the NHS with Nazi's?
You think people administering vaccines that are saving lives are on the same level as people who stood by and watched 9 million people get exterminated?
MSN side? You mean the side that is actually looking at facts, data and evidence? Yes im proud to say i can look at the facts rather than vacuum up conspiracy thepry BS.
I will never apologise for calling out BS, and the fact that someone is saying that hats happening today is any where near what happened with the Nazi's is a pure obscenity and I would not mind if people that post that garbage get severe covid and have to get tubes pushed down their throats.
But thats right, Covid doesnt exist in your world and the millions that died only had a bit of a flu.
What an idiot you are. Feel free to report me, and if @Casinomeister wants to kick me into touch thats a price I will have to pay for refusing to let BS pass me by.

Calling out BS is good.

But I wouldn't wish on anyone to be intubated. Even tho there have been alot of stories lately about people regretting getting vaccinated just before they're carted off to ICU to be intubated, it still seems way too many people think this is just a cold for everyone that catches it. Maybe in 3-4-5 years but not right now.

 

[bamberfishcake]

Seems respecting others wishes and opinions is missing from this thread for some, who are happy just to abuse a difference of opinion rather than make the effort for a compelling argument.

Wishing death on someone for a difference of opinion? I am sure you had a great sense of well being after making that post.

Vaccine or not, can't blame anybody for being suspicious of a government that didn't lock down quick enough and told everyone masks were not necessary. And now advises everyone to wear masks and locked down the country purely to boost the economy. Not to mention the billions thrown into their mates pockets.

For someone who doesn't hesitate to call out bullshit, you are rather trusting of bullshitting pharmas and politicians.

 

[electronictonic]

There was a little thing called the Nuremberg Code that was written in the wake of the Nazis who forced experimental vaccines on jews, not a parallell with the forced experimental mandatory vaccines they are trying to push through that nobody knows the long term side effects of, parallels? as for "conspiracy BS" 3 very credible people expressed concerns , the inventor of the PCR test Karry Mullis said it was never meant to be used as a diagnostic, the more CT cycles you use as in the corona tests which use 28 cycles or even more, things like fruit, soda drinks etc will test positive as was reported even in the MSM about kids testing fruits / drinks that gave a false positive, how many millions of people tested are given a false positive, according to some over 90% of tests are false positives when the CT is as high as they are using, hence cases so high.

Dr. Geert Vanden Bossch expressed serious concern about vaccines causing variants and other serious problems, he has a serious background in the vaccine industry very credible.

Dr Robert Malone inventor of MRNA and RNA used in these vaccines expressed serious concern, very credible people who are never debated with, just have their LinkedIn shut down, twitter, youtube etc etc if you speak out against the narrative you are cancelled and attacked and labelled with "conspiracy BS" despite being qualified to speak about concerns.

 

[sufferinsilence]

There was a little thing called the Nuremberg Code that was written in the wake of the Nazis who forced experimental vaccines on jews, not a parallell with the forced experimental mandatory vaccines they are trying to push through that nobody knows the long term side effects of, parallels? as for "conspiracy BS" 3 very credible people expressed concerns , the inventor of the PCR test Karry Mullis said it was never meant to be used as a diagnostic, the more CT cycles you use as in the corona tests which use 28 cycles or even more, things like fruit, soda drinks etc will test positive as was reported even in the MSM about kids testing fruits / drinks that gave a false positive, how many millions of people tested are given a false positive, according to some over 90% of tests are false positives when the CT is as high as they are using, hence cases so high.

Dr. Geert Vanden Bossch expressed serious concern about vaccines causing variants and other serious problems, he has a serious background in the vaccine industry very credible.

Dr Robert Malone inventor of MRNA and RNA used in these vaccines expressed serious concern, very credible people who are never debated with, just have their LinkedIn shut down, twitter, youtube etc etc if you speak out against the narrative you are cancelled and attacked and labelled with "conspiracy BS" despite being qualified to speak about concerns.

Vanden Bossche and Malone are both still active on Twitter.

 

[helenakp]

I usually don't debate especially in this Covid scenario and maybe this was posted by another member but can you please watch this video which was said from someone who is something in the world of vaccine

 

[cncas2123]

Seems respecting others wishes and opinions is missing from this thread for some, who are happy just to abuse a difference of opinion rather than make the effort for a compelling argument.

Wishing death on someone for a difference of opinion? I am sure you had a great sense of well being after making that post.

Vaccine or not, can't blame anybody for being suspicious of a government that didn't lock down quick enough and told everyone masks were not necessary. And now advises everyone to wear masks and locked down the country purely to boost the economy. Not to mention the billions thrown into their mates pockets.

For someone who doesn't hesitate to call out bullshit, you are rather trusting of bullshitting pharmas and politicians.

So I’m not wishing death on him , but hoping he has the experience that this virus can give.
Do you really think it’s ok to compare war criminals to doctors and nurses in the NHS, because that’s exactly what he’s doing.
Politicians make their careers from lying, but that’s got nothing to do with the conspiracy theory that’s being pushed by people on this site.
I’m out, not wasting any more time on a thread where so many people think it’s ok to compare what’s happening with a global pandemic that has killed many millions with the genocide carried out by the Nazi’s.

 

[mack341]

Yes Geert seems a dedicated and concerned scientist, not sure i totally understand his theory or the time scale but I keep an eye on his twitter and website where he posts his explanations etc..

Going on a sample of my vaccinated relatives they're taking the same precautions as before and worried abt catching it, that's not really the ideal reaction after two jabs, they only watch and read msm and are pro the vaccines. At some point what is going to release folk, I think it is a bit like 'pavlov's dog' the conditioned response, the covid data in the uk seems okay for a 66m country with most out and about, but then one scary headline and all that means nothing and the fear goes back up.

 

[mack341]

Some of the clips of covid policing I have recently seen on twatter are pretty bad, not brutal as you'd have in a dictatorship but certainly moving in that direction e.g a small older lady battoned, a young boy shoved in the head while watching his mum wrestled down, an elderly man arrested and cuffed for not wearing a mask outdoors, who then starts to have a heart attack and is frantically trying to find his pills. It's not what you expect to see in free societies, scenes unprecedented through my memory.

The vid and 1 line comment which offended and outraged someone has not received any likes so the reaction seems a bit OTT; if though the uk govt get nhs docs and nurses to start jabbing young children [perhaps toddlers as have seen them with probes up their nose testing them] with a novel and experimental type of vaccine for an illness that poses them no individual risk, mandating it instead to protect society, where are we?

I could certainly envisage the chinese communist govt going that way, would uk health scientists like sage and the pharma lobby here argue for it too, I don't think it's obvious they wouldn't, could be a slippery slope. Sometimes things of principle need to be defended for early.

 

[TheAddict]

"if though the uk govt get nhs docs and nurses to start jabbing young children [perhaps toddlers as have seen them with probes up their nose testing them] with a novel and experimental type of vaccine for an illness that poses them no individual risk, mandating it instead to protect society, where are we?"


Not sure exactly where, Mack.



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Maybe about here?
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[Kroffe]

Poor Boris.
Becomes the leader of what he thought was a conservative party.
Turns out they were communists all along.
Rip.

 

[mack341]

Poor Boris.
Becomes the leader of what he thought was a conservative party.
Turns out they were communists all along.
Rip.

Perhaps it's the other way around, boris is the one with dictatorial/crony tendencies [think animal farm]

 

[Kroffe]

Perhaps it's the other way around, boris is the one with dictatorial/crony tendencies [think animal farm]

Sorry, that is not possible.
Everybody knows one of the first things any true communist learns is how to use a comb.
No bedhead for these commies, no sir!

And Boris...well, lets just say he does not pass the commie-comb test.
Thats someone thats extremely conservative in their comb-usage.

 

[TheAddict]

Wasn't referring to Boris in particular, kroffe. I see what you did there though, ya cheeky little fooker.
I don't vote. I never have. I wouldn't have voted for boris, or any of the "conservative" sell out rats that are so obviously groomed in preparation for us to choose from the lineup.
like if being American, if not wanting a full on child sniffer like Biden I still wouldn't have voted for a sell out, useless pressure release valve that was the other option, in trump,
So no, I don't blame Boris. I blame whoever are pulling the strings.
So that ugly prick, and every fucking prick who speaks in that conservefuckall party can go fuck themselves, with all the other blackmailed fuckers smiling away under all this panic who are going to get away scott free for trafficking our kids/using them to blackmail politicians for God knows how many years under Ghislaine Maxwell, etc .




Anyway, yeah. I suppose it's not as bad as France here, yet. Seems that Commie world order is creeping in closer and closer though

 

[Kroffe]

Wasn't referring to Boris in particular, kroffe. I see what you did there though, ya cheeky little fooker.
I don't vote. I never have. I wouldn't have voted for boris, or any of the "conservative" sell out rats that are so obviously groomed in preparation for us to choose from the lineup.
like if being American, if not wanting a full on child sniffer like Biden I still wouldn't have voted for a sell out, useless pressure release valve that was the other option, in trump,
So no, I don't blame Boris. I blame whoever are pulling the strings.
So that ugly prick, and every fucking prick who speaks in that conservefuckall party can go fuck themselves, with all the other blackmailed fuckers smiling away under all this panic who are going to get away scott free for trafficking our kids/using them to blackmail politicians for God knows how many years under Ghislaine Maxwell, etc .




Anyway, yeah. I suppose it's not as bad as France here, yet. Seems that Commie world order is creeping in closer and closer though

You are correct, salvation is near comrade TheAddict.

 

[mack341]

Jeremy Clarkson has criticised Covid-19 lockdowns, saying: ‘If you die, you die.’

​

The Grand Tour host has referred to the scientists at Sage (Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies), who have provided scientific advice for the government throughout the pandemic, as ‘communists’ who need to ‘get back in their box’, while commenting on the lockdowns the UK has been placed under over the past year and a half.

​

Speaking to the

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, Clarkson, 61, said: ‘I think the politicians should sometimes tell those communists at Sage to get back in their box. Let’s just all go through life with our fingers crossed and a smile on our face.

​

‘I can see Boris doesn’t want to open it up and shut us back down again. But if it’s going to be four years… and who knows, it could be 40 years.’

 

[sufferinsilence]

The terms communism and fascism are thrown around a bit too easily me thinks.

Anyhow, carry on.

 

[Bunbu]

So you are comparing people who have brought live saving vaccinations, scientists who have advised governments around the world on how to best combat a pandemic and the medical profession that is now saving people's life's with Nazi's?
You are a sick, horrible little man, I truly hope you catch this disease and have to get intubated to see how you like it.

Instead being toxic and watch and listen just CNN, BBC and rest of that group, educate yourself and listen interviews of this man:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

P.S. Smart ppl will check his background before they say anything.
Also read Saul Alinsky (communist btw) - "Rules for Radicals", so you maybe learn how all of that narative making bullshit works.

Alexander, George's son worship Saul like it is Jesus.


I wish you all the luck in the world, kisses.

 

[bamberfishcake]

Do you really think it’s ok to compare war criminals to doctors and nurses in the NHS, because that’s exactly what he’s doing.

Since you asked, no I don't, if that's what is happening, but your response dragged you into the same gutter.

 

[Bunbu]

There was a little thing called the Nuremberg Code that was written in the wake of the Nazis who forced experimental vaccines on jews, not a parallell with the forced experimental mandatory vaccines they are trying to push through that nobody knows the long term side effects of, parallels? as for "conspiracy BS" 3 very credible people expressed concerns , the inventor of the PCR test Karry Mullis said it was never meant to be used as a diagnostic, the more CT cycles you use as in the corona tests which use 28 cycles or even more, things like fruit, soda drinks etc will test positive as was reported even in the MSM about kids testing fruits / drinks that gave a false positive, how many millions of people tested are given a false positive, according to some over 90% of tests are false positives when the CT is as high as they are using, hence cases so high.

Dr. Geert Vanden Bossch expressed serious concern about vaccines causing variants and other serious problems, he has a serious background in the vaccine industry very credible.

Dr Robert Malone inventor of MRNA and RNA used in these vaccines expressed serious concern, very credible people who are never debated with, just have their LinkedIn shut down, twitter, youtube etc etc if you speak out against the narrative you are cancelled and attacked and labelled with "conspiracy BS" despite being qualified to speak about concerns.

The Nuremberg Code (1947)​

1. The voluntary consent of the human subject is absolutely essential. This means that the person involved should have legal capacity to give consent; should be so situated as to be able to exercise free power of choice, without the intervention of any element of force, fraud, deceit, duress, overreaching, or other ulterior form of constraint or coercion; and should have sufficient knowledge and comprehension of the elements of the subject matter involved as to enable him to make an understanding and enlightened decision. This latter element requires that before the acceptance of an affirmative decision by the experimental subject there should be made known to him the nature, duration, and purpose of the experiment; the method and means by which it is to be conducted; all inconveniences and hazards reasonably to be expected; and the effects upon his health or person which may possibly come from his participation in the experiment.
   
   The duty and responsibility for ascertaining the quality of the consent rests upon each individual who initiates, directs, or engages in the experiment. It is a personal duty and responsibility which may not be delegated to another with impunity.
2. The experiment should be such as to yield fruitful results for the good of society, unprocurable by other methods or means of study, and not random and unnecessary in nature.
3. The experiment should be so designed and based on the results of animal experimentation and a knowledge of the natural history of the disease or other problem under study that the anticipated results justify the performance of the experiment.
4. The experiment should be so conducted as to avoid all unnecessary physical and mental suffering and injury.
5. No experiment should be conducted where there is an a priori reason to believe that death or disabling injury will occur; except, perhaps, in those experiments where the experimental physicians also serve as subjects.
6. The degree of risk to be taken should never exceed that determined by the humanitarian importance of the problem to be solved by the experiment.
7. Proper preparations should be made and adequate facilities provided to protect the experimental subject against even remote possibilities of injury, disability or death.
8. The experiment should be conducted only by scientifically qualified persons. The highest degree of skill and care should be required through all stages of the experiment of those who conduct or engage in the experiment.
9. During the course of the experiment the human subject should be at liberty to bring the experiment to an end if he has reached the physical or mental state where continuation of the experiment seems to him to be impossible.
10. During the course of the experiment the scientist in charge must be prepared to terminate the experiment at any stage, if he has probable cause to believe, in the exercise of the good faith, superior skill and careful judgment required of him, that a continuation of the experiment is likely to result in injury, disability, or death to the experimental subject.

- WMA Geneva Declaration

I WILL NOT USE my medical knowledge to violate human rights and civil liberties, even under threat;


- European Court of Human Rights, July, year 2002

Ilaria SALVETTI vs Italy
Application no. 42197/98

- Kouchner Law, article 111-4
Every person shall make decisions concerning his health with the healthcare professional and taking into account the information he provides him / her. The doctor must respect the will of the person after informing them of the consequences of their choices. If the person's willingness to refuse or discontinue treatment puts his or her life at risk, the doctor must do everything to convince him or her to accept the much needed care. No medical or treatment can be practiced without the free and informed consent of the person and this consent can be withdrawn at any time.

- Council of Europe resolution 2361 (28 January 2021): advisory opinion: the Assembly urges member states and the European Union:
Article 731: ′′ To ensure that citizens are informed that vaccination is not mandatory and that no one is under political, social or other pressure to get vaccinated, if he or she does not wish to do so personally.
Article 732: ′′ To ensure that no one is discriminated against for not being vaccinated, because of potential health risk or for not wanting to get vaccinated.

 

[Kroffe]

"The Nuremberg Code aimed to protect human subjects from enduring the kind of cruelty and exploitation the prisoners endured at concentration camps"

Wow, this situation with the vaccine nobody is forcing you to take is soooo similar to the nazi experiments and it totally makes sense to draw comparisons between the two.

 

[dealer wins]

"The Nuremberg Code aimed to protect human subjects from enduring the kind of cruelty and exploitation the prisoners endured at concentration camps"

Wow, this situation with the vaccine nobody is forcing you to take is soooo similar to the nazi experiments and it totally makes sense to draw comparisons between the two.

Its in the UK coronavirus legislation, and on the US CDCs website. The right to forcibly remove people from their homes to a camp.

So yes, comparison is very valid.

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[Kroffe]

Its in the UK coronavirus legislation, and on the US CDCs website. The right to forcibly remove people from their homes to a camp.

So yes, comparison is very valid.

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"High-risk individuals would be temporarily relocated to safe or “green zones” established at the household, neighborhood, camp/sector or community"

Sounds horrible, thats probably even worse than the nazi concentration camps.
I wonder if they even have wifi there.

The comparison is just as delusional as anti-vaxxers and anti-maskers comparing themselves to the freedomfighters that were fighting the nazis.

 

[sufferinsilence]

"High-risk individuals would be temporarily relocated to safe or “green zones” established at the household, neighborhood, camp/sector or community"

Sounds horrible, thats probably even worse than the nazi concentration camps.
I wonder if they even have wifi there.

The comparison is just as delusional as anti-vaxxers and anti-maskers comparing themselves to the freedomfighters that were fighting the nazis.

The vax center I went to had free wifi atleast. Can't completely compare it but perhaps a sign.

 

[sufferinsilence]

Its in the UK coronavirus legislation, and on the US CDCs website. The right to forcibly remove people from their homes to a camp.

So yes, comparison is very valid.

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Over a year old and never used. It's not because the CDC or any other public health organisation proposes something that it's going to be implemented. If health organisations and scientists had free reign the past year and a half it would've looked a whole lot different because their approach is purely from a medical pov without taking economy or social contacts into consideration. Politicians all over the world have often defied the medical experts opinion and done things differently.

We might've had this thing under control if there were much stricter lockdowns and quarantine measures around the globe during the first 8-12 weeks of this pandemic tho. But that's pure fantasy.

 

[mack341]

The situation at the moment is drifting away from free choice and informed consent to coercion and denying freedoms, in france today you have to be vaccinated in order to have a coffee sitting outside a cafe, it makes no logical sense as the vaccines do not prevent transmission and you're outdoors, also probably a foot from pedestrians who may or not be vaccinated.

Bring back rights and free individual choice, isolate if you have symptoms, allow docs to prescribe ivermectin etc... take the vaccine as well if you want, and then let people get on with their lives as before, without the need of 'new normal' govt permissions and interference. The results wouldn't be any worse than we have achieved, probably better as less collateral damage, fear, and more robust natural immunity in the young which benefits others vulnerable.

 

[Kroffe]

The situation at the moment is drifting away from free choice and informed consent to coercion and denying freedoms, in france today you have to be vaccinated in order to have a coffee sitting outside a cafe, it makes no logical sense as the vaccines do not prevent transmission and you're outdoors, also probably a foot from pedestrians who may or not be vaccinated.

Bring back rights and free individual choice, isolate if you have symptoms, allow docs to prescribe ivermectin etc... take the vaccine as well if you want, and then let people get on with their lives as before, without the need of 'new normal' govt permissions and interference. The results wouldn't be any worse than we have achieved, probably better as less collateral damage, fear, and more robust natural immunity in the young which benefits others vulnerable.

Many would probably agree such a rule is not necessary, maybe even dumb.
But the existence of a couple stupid rules does not make it ok to trivialize the holocaust by drawing comparisons to it.

Imo anyone thinking what is happening now is similar to the holocaust and what went on back then is seriously out of touch with reality.
But i guess when you have people believing they become magnetic, its 5g mind control etc, reality has probably left the building a long time ago.

 

[DrFeelgood]

Oh, I'm just dreaming when this whole situation with coronavirus is over

 

[paul7388]

Oh, I'm just dreaming when this whole situation with coronavirus is over

Be a long dream then as doubt it will ever go away.

Only time will tell how countries treat it and deal with it in the future.

I am guessing within a year it will just be treated the same as seasonal viruses like the flu.

 

[mack341]

Many would probably agree such a rule is not necessary, maybe even dumb.
But the existence of a couple stupid rules does not make it ok to trivialize the holocaust by drawing comparisons to it.

Imo anyone thinking what is happening now is similar to the holocaust and what went on back then is seriously out of touch with reality.
But i guess when you have people believing they become magnetic, its 5g mind control etc, reality has probably left the building a long time ago.

I think this is getting sidetracked onto something that is not happening on the whole, my post when i was writing it drew no inspiration from that. If you get it fixed in your mind, that those comparisons are a big part of the debate (on the changes we see coming in) then you won't be able to look at any points reasonably.

You can look at what is going on now in isolation and compare it just to 2019 pre covid life, and then ask are the changes to rights and freedoms a proportional and logical response that will have a overall beneficial effect on life [such as what is happening in france, as an example]

 

[Kroffe]

I think this is getting sidetracked onto something that is not happening on the whole, my post when i was writing it drew no inspiration from that. If you get it fixed in your mind, that those comparisons are a big part of the debate (on the changes we see coming in) then you won't be able to look at any points reasonably.

You can look at what is going on now in isolation and compare it just to 2019 pre covid life, and then ask are the changes to rights and freedoms a proportional and logical response that will have a overall beneficial effect on life [such as what is happening in france, as an example]

I would never even think of comparing the two, since they are nothing alike.
The reason i reacted was because bunbu and dealer seem to think its ok to make such a comparison, and that is imo delusional and at the same time trivializing what probably is one of the worst things that has ever happened.

I didnt mean that you mentioning the rules in france was making a comparison, sorry i made it seem that way.
I agree that most, if not all restrictions that apply to people being outside in a non-crowded setting are dumb, the risk of infection is imo too low to justify such rules.

 

[Jono777]

Just done a PCR test on request of my boss and told to stop off rest of this week, "Just in case" more stressed that I don't get sick pay and can't afford to lose the earnings lol

Felt a bit shitty yesterday, not so bad today and LFT was negative, hopefully this will be too!

 

[paul7388]

Just done a PCR test on request of my boss and told to stop off rest of this week, "Just in case" more stressed that I don't get sick pay and can't afford to lose the earnings lol

Felt a bit shitty yesterday, not so bad today and LFT was negative, hopefully this will be too!

See that is just total crap and reason why it got so bad in this country.

If your boss is telling you to stay off work and you were willing to work he should pay you. You never phoned in sick and are willing to work it is them that are telling you to stay off. I would tell them as test was negative and you have none of the main symptoms you are working unless they are paying you for time off.

Hopefully if you do the test today and it is negative you will get result back within few hours and be able to go to work tomorrow.

 

[mack341]

I would never even think of comparing the two, since they are nothing alike.
The reason i reacted was because bunbu and dealer seem to think its ok to make such a comparison, and that is imo delusional and at the same time trivializing what probably is one of the worst things that has ever happened.

I didnt mean that you mentioning the rules in france was making a comparison, sorry i made it seem that way.
I agree that most, if not all restrictions that apply to people being outside in a non-crowded setting are dumb, the risk of infection is imo too low to justify such rules.

I think the nuremberg code is brought in as an appeal to law, which is logic based not context, it's the easiest thing to remember that applies internationally as well. There was something from the council of europe [nothing to do with the eu organisation] last year, where all the european nations agreed no coercion or discrimination methods would be used regarding vaccination, well as we can see that counted for zilch.

 

[Kroffe]

I think the nuremberg code is brought in as an appeal to law, which is logic based not context, it's the easiest thing to remember that applies internationally as well. There was something from the council of europe [nothing to do with the eu organisation] last year, where all the european nations agreed no coercion or discrimination methods would be used regarding vaccination, well as we can see that counted for zilch.

Maybe for you its logic based, but dealer straight up said.

"Its in the UK coronavirus legislation, and on the US CDCs website. The right to forcibly remove people from their homes to a camp.

So yes, comparison is very valid."

I wouldnt say thats based on logic rather than context.
He seems to think any day now he will be dragged from his home to a camp where they will perform medical experiments on him against his will. Because that is the only thing that would make the comparsion 'very valid'
Until millions are dragged to camps against their will and have medical experiments performed on them, you cant really compare the two without trivializing the holocaust, which is a horrible thing to do.

 

[Kroffe]

I mean if we want to draw silly comparisons to what the nazis did, Hitler was all about yelling 'fakenews' or 'Lügenpresse' at news that didnt align with his views.
Sounds an awful lot like what anti-vaxxers are doing today.
Does that make anti-vaxxers Hitler, or is it a really bad comparison because the two things are not at all the same?

Comparing the nazi doctors with todays vaccine scientists is imo just as dumb.
Its just not the same, so comparing the two makes no sense.

 

[mack341]

I mean if we want to draw silly comparisons to what the nazis did, Hitler was all about yelling 'fakenews' or 'Lügenpresse' at news that didnt align with his views.
Sounds an awful lot like what anti-vaxxers are doing today.
Does that make anti-vaxxers Hitler, or is it a really bad comparison because the two things are not at all the same?

Comparing the nazi doctors with todays vaccine scientists is imo just as dumb.
Its just not the same, so comparing the two makes no sense.

But it's not a big part of the debate imo, but there is a danger of characterising and reframing it as such; alex jones has been going on about fema camps for years, the un was buying up land in the US etc... The situation would really need to be out of control for the unvaxxed to be forcibly detained away from society, is it beyond the realms of future possibility, look at the changes people have accepted so far on 'public health' grounds, but it still feels like a movie scenario than likely reality atm.

 

[Kroffe]

But it's not a big part of the debate imo, but there is a danger of characterising and reframing it as such; alex jones has been going on about fema camps for years, the un was buying up land in the US etc... The situation would really need to be out of control for the unvaxxed to be forcibly detained away from society, is it beyond the realms of future possibility, look at the changes people have accepted so far on 'public health' grounds, but it still feels like a movie scenario than likely reality atm.

Just as i wouldnt go to Jeremy Clarkson for medical advice, i wouldnt go to Alex Jones for , well anything.
If just 1% of the things coming out of that mans mouth turns out to be true, we have waaay worse stuff than vaccine-camps to worry about.
Lizardpeople, demons, pizzeria pedo rings etc etc.

Everybody must make their own mind up how much faith they are willing to put in Alex Jones words, but for me that amount is rather low.

Impossible to say if the evil cabal will start dragging millions from their homes in the future.
If that happens, i wont say a word if anyone wants to compare it to what the nazis did. (tho i doubt it would be even close to similar even then)

 

[mack341]

Just as i wouldnt go to Jeremy Clarkson for medical advice, i wouldnt go to Alex Jones for , well anything.
If just 1% of the things coming out of that mans mouth turns out to be true, we have waaay worse stuff than vaccine-camps to worry about.
Lizardpeople, demons, pizzeria pedo rings etc etc.

Everybody must make their own mind up how much faith they are willing to put in Alex Jones words, but for me that amount is rather low.

Impossible to say if the evil cabal will start dragging millions from their homes in the future.
If that happens, feel free to compare it to what the nazis did. =) (tho i doubt it would be even close to similar)

It's godwin's law again, and will derail a hitherto focused discussion.