Corona virus - Covid 19 discussion

[geordiecolin]

You post about the MSM giving out fake or misleading news, but then post stuff like that, from the MSM, quoted by someone who is against everything that governments are doing, by the look of his twitter account?
He was seemingly quoting current rules for cruise ships and other islands (of which most seem to have relaxed the policy during the crisis since he made the statement). He did not say people wouldn't be saved if they hadn't been vaccinated.

If the story was false then I would say that you have a fair point but earlier this morning when I posted it there where few sources I could find to present the breaking story. There is more now from other sources.

There is a volcano erupting and could go on so for weeks or more.They are evacuating folk who have had the jab. There is another volcano in the area threatening to blow. So in all it was a valid post which is open for debate.

Why have an issue with that?

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

 

[colinsunderland]

If the story was false then I would say that you have a fair point but earlier this morning when I posted it there where few sources I could find to present the breaking story. There is more now from other sources.

There is a volcano erupting and could go on so for weeks or more.They are evacuating folk who have had the jab. There is another volcano in the area threatening to blow. So in all it was a valid post which is open for debate.

Why have an issue with that?

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Because the way it's put and reported is that the island won't evacuate anyone that hasn't been vaccinated. That isn't true. Some places and cruise ships have said no (which is pretty terrible, surely they could use PCR tests or something to make sure they are safe to travel), but everyone in the red zone is being evacuated, either to different islands, if the ships and islands accept them, or to safer parts of St. Vincent. But feel free to link to a credible source that says they have refused to evacuate anyone from the red zone because they haven't had a vaccination.

 

[geordiecolin]

Because the way it's put and reported is that the island won't evacuate anyone that hasn't been vaccinated. That isn't true. Some places and cruise ships have said no (which is pretty terrible, surely they could use PCR tests or something to make sure they are safe to travel), but everyone in the red zone is being evacuated, either to different islands, if the ships and islands accept them, or to safer parts of St. Vincent. But feel free to link to a credible source that says they have refused to evacuate anyone from the red zone because they haven't had a vaccination.

You ignored the substance of my post preferring to attempt to discredit me simply due to the guy who presented the link originally. But it was not an opinion peace that he presented (Nor have I ever heard of him)
Agenda,much?

 

[colinsunderland]

You ignored the substance of my post preferring to attempt to discredit me simply due to the guy who presented the link originally. But it was not an opinion peace that he presented.

I didn't try to discredit you at all?
I pointed out the person who posted it on twitter is what he is, and that his source for it was a MSM news outlet. It took me 2 minutes to find out how it was presented wasn't true and thats why I posted.
Reading through the comments on his post he knows full well the situation isn't as he implied, certainly now he does, even if he wasn't aware to start with, but hasn't posted anything to say that. That suggests he deliberately posted it for negative reactions to the current situation surrounding the vaccination, as otherwise why not delete his tweet, or reply to it making things more clear.

 

[geordiecolin]

I didn't try to discredit you at all?
I pointed out the person who posted it on twitter is what he is, and that his source for it was a MSM news outlet. It took me 2 minutes to find out how it was presented wasn't true and thats why I posted.
Reading through the comments on his post he knows full well the situation isn't as he implied, certainly now he does, even if he wasn't aware to start with, but hasn't posted anything to say that. That suggests he deliberately posted it for negative reactions to the current situation surrounding the vaccination, as otherwise why not delete his tweet, or reply to it making things more clear.

I do not give a single care about him or his opinions. He handily provided a link to the breaking story which I think most people would agree was worthy of posting in this thread.
I did not mention anything at all about red zones or sky blue pink zones. I did not vouch for the validity of everything contained in the articles. The main issue is the breaking story.
You just seem to want to win very hollow victories. Listen to what the PM says

 

[colinsunderland]

I do not give a single care about him or his opinions. He handily provided a link to the breaking story which I think most people would agree was worthy of posting in this thread.
I did not mention anything at all about red zones or sky blue pink zones. I did not vouch for the validity of everything contained in the articles. The main issue is the breaking story.
You just seem to want to win very hollow victories. Listen to what the PM says

You said 'Only those vaccinated are being evacuated'
That was wrong. As usual people are twisting what has been said and done to suit their purposes (not you, the guy on twitter).
The red zone is the only part of the island under evacuation orders, thats why I mentioned it, giving a more complete version of the breaking news than what was included in his post. No one has been refused evacuation from that area for any reason (or not that I can find), let alone because they don't have a vaccine, despite what CBS says.
I don't post to win or lose ffs, but when I see fake news being posted then I will post.

 

[Gaz237]

I do not give a single care about him or his opinions. He handily provided a link to the breaking story which I think most people would agree was worthy of posting in this thread.
I did not mention anything at all about red zones or sky blue pink zones. I did not vouch for the validity of everything contained in the articles. The main issue is the breaking story.
You just seem to want to win very hollow victories. Listen to what the PM says

But posting links in this this thread which, if you spent 5 mins researching to realise are untrue, is pointless and dealer wins territory.

If your going to post breaking stories, but not vouch for the validity of them, you can't complain if you are called out on them.

 

[geordiecolin]

Many news sources have yet to catch up on the story and many that have are not up to speed yet with developments. I hope that those on the Island are able to breath ok

Posted minutes ago in Barbados. I think that Barbados is at least 100 miles away from St. Vincent

 

[geordiecolin]

But posting links in this this thread which, if you spent 5 mins researching to realise are untrue, in pointless and dealer wins territory.

If your going to post breaking stories, but not vouch for the validity of them, you can't complain if you are called out on them.

It was breaking news with very few reports on it. Listen to what the PM said about the evacuation policy. Those not vaccinated will have to wait days after having the jab before leaving the Island.
Is the volcano erupting untrue? Are the residents not in danger? Could the situation get worse? Are those that have not had the vaccine having to wait two days after getting vaccinated before leaving the Island?
What is not true about what I have said?

 

[Gaz237]

It was breaking news with very few reports on it. Listen to what the PM said about the evacuation policy. Those not vaccinated will have to wait days after having the jab before leaving the Island

Your original post said ONLY people who have been vaccinated are being evacuated, which is just tabloid sensationalism.

Obviously if you think about it, they would have to be leaving by ship, so keeping those who have had the jab separate would make perfect sense and they can be shipped anywhere.

Those that have not had the jab, will need to be moved to somewhere that will allow them in or kept on boats, thats not exactly a 5 min job to organise. Waiting 2 days was never mentioned in your first post. Ships are not just anchored off the island, just in
case a volcano goes off.

 

[geordiecolin]

Your original post said ONLY people who have been vaccinated are being evacuated, which is just tabloid sensationalism.

Obviously if you think about it, they would have to be leaving by ship, so keeping those who have had the jab separate would make perfect sense and they can be shipped anywhere.

Those that have not had the jab, will need to be moved to somewhere that will allow them in or kept on boats, thats not exactly a 5 min job to organise.

So the posts that I made that where untrue where what?

 

[Slottery]

• The 79 cases and 19 deaths occurred after 20 million doses were administered - giving a risk of about four in one million of developing a blood clot, and one in a million of dying
• Nearly two-thirds of the cases of rare clots were seen in women
• The people who died were aged between 18 and 79, with three of them aged under 30
• All the recorded cases occurred after the first dose, although the lower number of second doses meant it was not possible to draw any conclusions from this

Under-30s in the UK are to be offered an alternative Covid vaccine to the AstraZeneca jab due to the evidence linking it to rare blood clots.​

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Wouldn't be too worried about these blood clots, based on available data where mostly age is used as indicator, what older you are, better odds you have with AZ vaccination than with covid. For young under 30 etc... it's then bit different and with this connection to blood clot it might be not reasonable to force young people to have it by making it mandatory to have to be able to do many things. Think this UK decision to stop it under 30 year olds is quite ok as there are other vaccinations available where these are not yet at least found.

All medicines of course have side effects, big difference between vaccination and medicine (or other medical threatment which have to be given to injured/ill patient) is that vaccination are given to healthy people and medicines to sick people (for condition which requires medication). In medicines, more side effects can be accepted than in vaccinations.

 

[interlog]

So basically a two tier system.

Something that those against vaccines have warned us about.

Edit: in reply to the posts about the volcano eruption

 

[geordiecolin]

So basically a two tier system.

Something that those against vaccines have warned us about.

Edit: in reply to the posts about the volcano eruption

Ignore that. It is far more important to try and trip me up for things that I have not said than consider what could be a humanitarian crisis

 

[colinsunderland]

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Wouldn't be too worried about these blood clots, based on available data where mostly age is used as indicator, what older you are, better odds you have with AZ vaccination than with covid. For young under 30 etc... it's then bit different and with this connection to blood clot it might be not reasonable to force young people to have it by making it mandatory to have to be able to do many things. Think this UK decision to stop it under 30 year olds is quite ok as there are other vaccinations available where these are not yet at least found.

All medicines of course have side effects, big difference between vaccination and medicine (or other medical threatment which have to be given to injured/ill patient) is that vaccination are given to healthy people and medicines to sick people (for condition which requires medication). In medicines, more side effects can be accepted than in vaccinations.

I agree with that, as there are other vaccinations available then don't see the problem with under 30's having them instead.
The whole thing is just over the top anyway. I don't see them telling women they are not going to give them contraceptive pills.
The vaccine has around a 1 in 250000 chance of causing blood clots.
The contraceptive pill has around a 1 in 1000 chance of causing blood clots.

 

[cncas2123]

I agree with that, as there are other vaccinations available then don't see the problem with under 30's having them instead.
The whole thing is just over the top anyway. I don't see them telling women they are not going to give them contraceptive pills.
The vaccine has around a 1 in 250000 chance of causing blood clots.
The contraceptive pill has around a 1 in 1000 chance of causing blood clots.

Agree 100%, every single medication has the potential to cause side effects, hence the need for monitoring of adverse effects.
Read the leaflet contained in any box of medication you may have and see what the list of potential side effects are, then come back and say nobody should have the AZ vaccine as it may have caused 30 blood clots in 20 million vaccinated people.

 

[Slottery]

I agree with that, as there are other vaccinations available then don't see the problem with under 30's having them instead.
The whole thing is just over the top anyway. I don't see them telling women they are not going to give them contraceptive pills.
The vaccine has around a 1 in 250000 chance of causing blood clots.
The contraceptive pill has around a 1 in 1000 chance of causing blood clots.

Yes, difference just is that contraceptive pills are only given if you go ask them yourself, with vaccination is bit different if there is will to have good coverage, majority have to take it and people might feel forced to have it if it's needed for travelling or other things.

Covid either is not killing too many young people, if you are 18-30, your chance to die for covid or even getting very severe one is quite small as well based on available data (of course there are loads of stories where some healthy young person got it really bad but that goes with most of this kind of deceases, (i think i recovered some months from pneumonia when i was bit over 20, it wasn't fun when couldn't do anything physical).

Of course we don't have enough accurate data about long covid or however it should be called, but early predictions about 10% of covid patients suffering about it is bit same than say that this vaccine is dangerous and cause loads of severe side effects. These long covid numbers are mainly done by asking from people themselves if you feel sick etc... without medical diagnose which might not be most accurate method, then one thing in these is that most common thing of long covid seems to be anxiety which kind of possibly is not directly caused by covid but whole experience of getting virus which all in telly tell will kill you, being uncertain from many things during these worldwide restrictions that do we ever get back to normal etc... for sure this situation have caused amount of anxiety for many people who haven't have covid but have been negatively affected by losing your job, your studies not going well, if not yourself, somebody close to you at least have been hit by covid or these restrictions etc.. By time we have more medical facts about long covid but currently it sounds bit far that 10% of covid patients suffer from it.

Unfortunately it feels sometimes that even scientist have lost bit of their ethics in this one and all studies and statements are not always made 100% "science first" attitude but more to backup their own opinions instead of getting real results to benefit all, even it would prove somebody been wrong in something which is quite questionable as scientists used to always be once who first change their opinion when there is new information available, now even some very well educated research people seem to give priority to their personal agenda prior true science, which is really sad and totally against their traditional ethics.

 

[Gaz237]

So the posts that I made that where untrue where what?

The post you made, Stated as fact they were only evacuating people that had been vaccinated (insinuating that the others would be left) and you wanted a discussion about how unethical that was.

When if you had actually spent 5 mins researching you would of realised there was nothing unethical about it and there was nothing worthy of discussion and we was only talking 2 days until everyone was removed.

Taking those who had been jabbed first seems a perfectly logical reason to me.

If i was the leader of a local country, i certainly would not want my people placed at risk.

Let the ones who have not been jabbed be quarantined on a few cruise ships, which will take a few days to arrive.

 

[Gaz237]

Yes, difference just is that contraceptive pills are only given if you go ask them yourself, with vaccination is bit different if there is will to have good coverage, majority have to take it and people might feel forced to have it if it's needed for travelling or other things.

Covid either is not killing too many young people, if you are 18-30, your chance to die for covid or even getting very severe one is quite small as well based on available data (of course there are loads of stories where some healthy young person got it really bad but that goes with most of this kind of deceases, (i think i recovered some months from pneumonia when i was bit over 20, it wasn't fun when couldn't do anything physical).

Of course we don't have enough accurate data about long covid or however it should be called, but early predictions about 10% of covid patients suffering about it is bit same than say that this vaccine is dangerous and cause loads of severe side effects. These long covid numbers are mainly done by asking from people themselves if you feel sick etc... without medical diagnose which might not be most accurate method, then one thing in these is that most common thing of long covid seems to be anxiety which kind of possibly is not directly caused by covid but whole experience of getting virus which all in telly tell will kill you, being uncertain from many things during these worldwide restrictions that do we ever get back to normal etc... for sure this situation have caused amount of anxiety for many people who haven't have covid but have been negatively affected by losing your job, your studies not going well, if not yourself, somebody close to you at least have been hit by covid or these restrictions etc.. By time we have more medical facts about long covid but currently it sounds bit far that 10% of covid patients suffer from it.

Unfortunately it feels sometimes that even scientist have lost bit of their ethics in this one and all studies and statements are not always made 100% "science first" attitude but more to backup their own opinions instead of getting real results to benefit all, even it would prove somebody been wrong in something which is quite questionable as scientists used to always be once who first change their opinion when there is new information available, now even some very well educated research people seem to give priority to their personal agenda prior true science, which is really sad and totally against their traditional ethics.

Nobody will be forced to take it.

But if they dont and are not let on flights or allowed into other countries, they have no right to bitch about it.

Same as pubs,clubs, going for a new job, again, they can refuse service or not employ you.

Bleating about equal rights will get you no where.

To be honest, i'm looking forward to all these gobby snowflakes (mainly on FB) to get bitten in the arse when they find they can't do as they please.

 

[Slottery]

Nobody will be forced to take it.

But if they dont and are not let on flights or allowed into other countries, they have no right to bitch about it.

Same as pubs,clubs, going for a new job, again, they can refuse service or not employ you.

Bleating about equal rights will get you no where.

To be honest, i'm looking forward to all these gobby snowflakes (mainly on FB) to get bitten in the arse when they find they can't do as they please.

Nope and like said in BBC, they stop administrating AZ to people under 30 in UK. Don't see it very fair either to force young people to take vaccine against something they probably have very little danger from. Don't really think this gonna be a demand to go pubs in many countries or even restriction for travelling, we'll see but would guess it's not.

Vaccine passport (or how every wanna call it) been planned before this covid mania, can't see this vaccination hanging in mandatory list in many places after few years, it's already more educated guess from science that this vaccination need to be taken again and again after while, bit like that seasonal jab people getting already now for winter, start to be bit overreacting to ask to get them all every year.

When enough people are vaccinated, what difference it makes if some are not? Vaccinated people shouldn't get severe affects because they are vaccinated and if health have capacity to handle sick people, it's just one more virus along with all other ones.

 

[Gaz237]

Nope and like said in BBC, they stop administrating AZ to people under 30 in UK. Don't see it very fair either to force young people to take vaccine against something they probably have very little danger from. Don't really think this gonna be a demand to go pubs in many countries or even restriction for travelling, we'll see but would guess it's not.

Vaccine passport (or how every wanna call it) been planned before this covid mania, can't see this vaccination hanging in mandatory list in many places after few years, it's already more educated guess from science that this vaccination need to be taken again and again after while, bit like that seasonal jab people getting already now for winter, start to be bit overreacting to ask to get them all every year.

When enough people are vaccinated, what difference it makes if some are not? Vaccinated people shouldn't get severe affects because they are vaccinated and if health have capacity to handle sick people, it's just one more virus along with all other ones.

My main point was that if any country decides that they refuse entry to any non vaccinated people, they have every right to.

The under 30's have other options than the AZ jab.

Yes i would be surprised if pubs n clubs adopted the same policy, but i,m pretty sure it will be included in any new job application.

 

[interlog]

My main point was that if any country decides that they refuse entry to any non vaccinated people, they have every right to.

The under 30's have other options than the AZ jab.

Yes i would be surprised if pubs n clubs adopted the same policy, but i,m pretty sure it will be included in any new job application.

Wouldn't that be a form of discrimination? What about those that are not able to take the vaccine, because they get allergic reactions to the ingredients of the vaccine? I am sure it will not stand up in law.

 

[geordiecolin]

The post you made, Stated as fact they were only evacuating people that had been vaccinated (insinuating that the others would be left) and you wanted a discussion about how unethical that was.

When if you had actually spent 5 mins researching you would of realised there was nothing unethical about it and there was nothing worthy of discussion and we was only talking 2 days until everyone was removed.

Taking those who had been jabbed first seems a perfectly logical reason to me.

If i was the leader of a local country, i certainly would not want my people placed at risk.

Let the ones who have not been jabbed be quarantined on a few cruise ships, which will take a few days to arrive.

What did I say that needed calling out about?
Not only do they need to have the vaccine to get on a ship but everyone that needs to use a government shelter has to be vaccinated. They have no choice.

 

[Gaz237]

Wouldn't that be a form of discrimination? What about those that are not able to take the vaccine, because they get allergic reactions to the ingredients of the vaccine? I am sure it will not stand up in law.

Discrimination is one thing.

But i think that any employer would not want to take on any new staff without a vaccine, which could run the risk of them losing plenty of staff due to an outbreak. I doubt they can do anything about the ones already employed.

Being black, white, yellow, pink, disabled they can all be vaccinated.

As for the ones with allergies , they would need to prove thats why they never got the job.

Plus we have seen a few law changes rushed through of late and a lot of Tory donaters are big industry employers.

 

[interlog]

Discrimination is one thing.

But i think that any employer would not want to take on any new staff without a vaccine, which could run the risk of them losing plenty of staff due to an outbreak. I doubt they can do anything about the ones already employed.

Being black, white, yellow, pink, disabled they can all be vaccinated.

As for the ones with allergies , they would need to prove thats why they never got the job.

Plus we have seen a few law changes rushed through of late and a lot of Tory donaters are big industry employers.

Well that is the case with any form of discrimination where the person that didn't get the job thinks it was because of say race, religion, gender etc. No sensible employer will give this as a reason for not giving a person the job advertised.

I am sure that where "only whites can apply" is illegal in terms of job adverts, the same will apply for "only those vaccinated can apply"

 

[Gaz237]

What did I say that needed calling out about?
Not only do they need to have the vaccine to get on a ship but everyone that needs to use a government shelter has to be vaccinated. They have no choice.

If the people need to be vaccinated to use a government shelter, whats the big deal?.

Everybody is being moved to safer areas of the island, it's not like they are being left to die in their houses.

I,m presuming they all have masks to to protect from the volcanic ash.

Also nobody seemed to be in a panic or rush in that other video you posted.

The title of the original video you posted was, it's unethical, questions are needed. When in fact it was nothing of the sort.

 

[Gaz237]

Well that is the case with any form of discrimination where the person that didn't get the job thinks it was because of say race, religion, gender etc. No sensible employer will give this as a reason for not giving a person the job advertised.

I am sure that where "only whites can apply" is illegal in terms of job adverts, the same will apply for "only those vaccinated can apply"

Do you honestly think they would be so blatant about it?.

 

[interlog]

Do you honestly think they would be so blatant about it?.

Pimlico Plumbers anybody?

 

[geordiecolin]

If the people need to be vaccinated to use a government shelter, whats the big deal?.

Everybody is being moved to safer areas of the island, it's not like they are being left to die in their houses.

I,m presuming they all have masks to to protect from the volcanic ash.

Also nobody seemed to be in a panic or rush in that other video you posted.

The title of the original video you posted was, it's unethical, questions are needed. When in fact it was nothing of the sort. because it came from a source

I posted a totally discredited news item simply because you do not agree that it is unethical or any questions should be asked?

No questions should be asked about only vaccinated people being allowed to leave the Island?
You have no issue about people having to be vaccinated before using a government shelter when they have no choice but to use a government shelter?
That opinion is dictatorial

 

[Gaz237]

Pimlico Plumbers anybody?

Exactly what i said.

New workers will have to of been vaccinated. Fair enough.

Charlie is somewhat eccentric and can afford to be.

He is just more vocal than everyone else who plans the same.

 

[interlog]

Exactly what i said.

New workers will have to of been vaccinated. Fair enough.

Charlie is somewhat eccentric and can afford to be.

He is just more vocal than everyone else who plans the same.

And how is the vaccine beneficial to an employer in any case? As far as I know, those vaccinated can still get the virus (it doesn't give immunity) and spread it to the rest of the workforce. You could argue that it can give a false sense of security.

The same can be applied to all other scenarios where vaccination is a requirement. It protects you, the one vaccinated, but not those that aren't.

 

[cncas2123]

Nope and like said in BBC, they stop administrating AZ to people under 30 in UK. Don't see it very fair either to force young people to take vaccine against something they probably have very little danger from. Don't really think this gonna be a demand to go pubs in many countries or even restriction for travelling, we'll see but would guess it's not.

Vaccine passport (or how every wanna call it) been planned before this covid mania, can't see this vaccination hanging in mandatory list in many places after few years, it's already more educated guess from science that this vaccination need to be taken again and again after while, bit like that seasonal jab people getting already now for winter, start to be bit overreacting to ask to get them all every year.

When enough people are vaccinated, what difference it makes if some are not? Vaccinated people shouldn't get severe affects because they are vaccinated and if health have capacity to handle sick people, it's just one more virus along with all other ones.

The difference it makes is that the more people that arent vaccinated the more opportunity there is for the virus to mutate until it gets to a mutation that the vaccine will have no effect on.
The reason that a high uptake is needed in vaccination is to try and minimise the chances of that happening.

 

[Gaz237]

I posted a totally discredited news item simply because you do not agree that it is unethical or any questions should be asked?

No questions should be asked about only vaccinated people being allowed to leave the Island?

That opinion is dictatorial

I never said non vaccinated people should not be allowed to leave the island.

I said removing all the vaccinated people first makes more sense.

As i said, it will a lot easier to relocate the vaccinated people.

The ships can then return to collect any remaining vaccinated people, and once done, start filling the ships with the rest and if needed they can stay onboard in quarantine.

 

[Gaz237]

And how is the vaccine beneficial to an employer in any case? As far as I know, those vaccinated can still get the virus (it doesn't give immunity) and spread it to the rest of the workforce. You could argue that it can give a false sense of security.

The same can be applied to all other scenarios where vaccination is a requirement. It protects you, the one vaccinated, but not those that aren't.

The vaccine stops people from getting serious symptoms.

The employer will already have a number of people working for him who have refused the jab that he can do nothing about.

Why would he increase this number with new employees?.

It makes no business sense.

Your last sentence knocks the nail on the head.

If you ran a company, it would be far better to have a few off for a week with the sniffles, than half your workforce at deaths door, hence any employer would rather have their entire workforce vaccinated, in an ideal world.

 

[Slottery]

The difference it makes is that the more people that arent vaccinated the more opportunity there is for the virus to mutate until it gets to a mutation that the vaccine will have no effect on.
The reason that a high uptake is needed in vaccination is to try and minimise the chances of that happening.

Yes and with this virus and current vaccination it's forecasted already to be lost battle, it takes quite a while to get enough people from this planet vaccinated. Also even vaccination seem to prevent quite well people from getting covid, still people do, can't really see this get disappeared from earth with current existing vaccinations. There still is no vaccination made which would prevent people carrying covid near 100% but just prevent severe symptoms.

 

[interlog]

The vaccine stops people from getting serious symptoms.

The employer will already have a number of people working for him who have refused the jab that he can do nothing about.

Why would he increase this number with new employees?.

It makes no business sense.

Your last sentence knocks the nail on the head.

If you ran a company, it would be far better to have a few off for a week with the sniffles, than half your workforce at deaths door, hence any employer would rather have their entire workforce vaccinated, in an ideal world.

Real life example that happened where I work.

Employee comes to work, works with a group of people who then test positive for the virus as they had symptoms. The employee thought I better have a test too despite having no symptoms. He tested positive too. He was called the silent super spreader. If he had the symptoms he would have stayed home and not infected the other people in the group. The danger with the vaccinations is that those vaccinated may have Covid, don't know about it because of the vaccine and then infect every other fucker.

 

[mack341]

If firms are going to go down this route ought they be consistent and insist on other vaccinations, plumbers for instance would be going into households where there are pregnant women [shingles risk-vaccine] or the elderly vulnerable to pneumonia or influenza [vaccines available for both] why should the customer face an additional risk of those illnesses from an unvaccinated plumber in and out of multiple households daily.

Ditto covid passports, flu is a proven bigger danger to children than covid, so logically every school teacher, caretaker, dinner lady, assistant etc.. must have the flu jab and carry an up to date digital proof otherwise they can't be near to children, where's it all end?

 

[Gaz237]

Real life example that happened where I work.

Employee comes to work, works with a group of people who then test positive for the virus as they had symptoms. The employee thought I better have a test too despite having no symptoms. He tested positive too. He was called the silent super spreader. If he had the symptoms he would have stayed home and not infected the other people in the group. The danger with the vaccinations is that those vaccinated may have Covid, don't know about it because of the vaccine and then infect every other fucker.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make?.

Even if someone who is vaccinated has the virus, if everyone else is vaccinated they are only going to catch something resembling a cold, not laid up in hospital on a ventilator.

Testing kits are becoming faster and faster by the week and more readily available.

Theres nothing stopping people in the near future testing themselves daily and getting the results immediately.

 

[interlog]

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make?.

Even if someone who is vaccinated has the virus, if everyone else is vaccinated they are only going to catch something resembling a cold, not laid up in hospital on a ventilator.

Testing kits are becoming faster and faster by the week and more readily available.

Theres nothing stopping people in the near future testing themselves daily and getting the results immediately.

Cause that is the way it was sold. Get enough vaccinated to get back to a form of normality. Reduce the risk of people getting serious ill.

You don't have a two tier system for flu vaccinations, so why make one for Covid.

 

[Gaz237]

If firms are going to go down this route ought they be consistent and insist on other vaccinations, plumbers for instance would be going into households where there are pregnant women [shingles risk-vaccine] or the elderly vulnerable to pneumonia or influenza [vaccines available for both] why should the customer face an additional risk of those illnesses from an unvaccinated plumber in and out of multiple households daily.

Ditto covid passports, flu is a proven bigger danger to children than covid, so logically every school teacher, caretaker, dinner lady, assistant etc.. must have the flu jab and carry an up to date digital proof otherwise they can't be near to children, where's it all end?

I,m guessing your post is somewhat flippant.

But everyone in my area that works in care homes and as carers visiting people, all had to have the jab.

They got theirs at the same time as the eldest people. No Jab or they could not work.

 

[interlog]

By the way, I had my first jab and I don't agree with those not having a vaccination being treated different because it is their choice not to have the jab.

 

[interlog]

Also comparisons have been made to the Yellow Fever vaccine in terms of international travel.

The difference here is that the Yellow Fever vaccine gives you immunity and therefore stops you spreading the virus, unlike the Covid vaccine that doesn't stop you spreading it.

 

[Gaz237]

Cause that is the way it was sold. Get enough vaccinated to get back to a form of normality. Reduce the risk of people getting serious ill.

You don't have a two tier system for flu vaccinations, so why make one for Covid.

I don't think for 1 min that there should be a two tier system.

I'm with Charlie (pimlico) if i still had my company, i would trying to make it compulsory.

Nobody is forcing you to take it, but i would want all my staff vaccinated, so take your choice. Dont agree, heres your P45 .

I think it will get to the stage where the non vaccinated will be very much the minority and will find everyday life harder to lead.

All there mates off to Spain and they can't go.

Lose your job and find it impossible to get another etc etc.

 

[interlog]

I don't think for 1 min that there should be a two tier system.

I'm with Charlie (pimlico) if i still had my company, i would trying to make it compulsory.

Nobody is forcing you to take it, but i would want all my staff vaccinated, so take your choice. Dont agree, heres your P45 .

I think it will get to the stage where the non vaccinated will be very much the minority and will find everyday life harder to lead.

All there mates off to Spain and they can't go.

Lose your job and find it impossible to get another etc etc.

So Charlie should also refuse jobs that those that haven't had the flu vaccine each year? Why not stop there.

 

[Gaz237]

By the way, I had my first jab and I don't agree with those not having a vaccination being treated different because it is their choice not to have the jab.

Had my first one as well.

I just think that if people refuse the jab, then they just have to face the consequences if any.

 

[cncas2123]

So Charlie should also refuse jobs that those that haven't had the flu vaccine each year? Why not stop there.

its not a like for like comparison, Covid isnt the Flu. Covid is more infectious and more fatal, and a lot more debilitating than flu in non fatal cases.

 

[Gaz237]

So Charlie should also refuse jobs that those that haven't had the flu vaccine each year? Why not stop there.

His company, he can employ who he chooses. Covid is slightly more than flu.

Edit-- As cncas said, your comparison way off.

 

[interlog]

His company, he can employ who he chooses. Covid is slightly more than flu.

Within reason and as long as it is lawful. As I said before, I am not so sure not giving people jobs because they haven't had the Covid vaccine is lawful. Time will tell once it gets tested in Court.

 

[interlog]

its not a like for like comparison, Covid isnt the Flu. Covid is more infectious and more fatal, and a lot more debilitating than flu in non fatal cases.

But surely a person that had the flu jab is more likely quicker to recover from flu than the person that hasn't. Isn't that the reason why he is discriminating against those that haven't had the Covid jab.

Both flu and Covid vaccinated people can still spread the virus. If it offered immunity, then I am with you, alas it doesn't.

 

[Gaz237]

Within reason and as long as it is lawful. As I said before, I am not so sure not giving people jobs because they haven't had the Covid vaccine is lawful. Time will tell once it gets tested in Court.

I,m sure he will have his team of lawyers checking all the angles.

But i,m also sure in this current climate theres room for quite a few redundancies if things cannot be done down the legal route.

The blokes a multi multi millionaire who is used to getting his own way.

Hope it comes off and sets a precedent.