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Corona virus - Covid 19 discussion

I got my jab yesterday :) Astra zenneca - and my son due to his issues got his last week. Feel fine today just a sore arm. My son had a day where he felt crap but is totally fine this week. I dont understand anti vaxers - everyone to there own I suppose. But this has been a massive scientific breakthrough that has been made this past year. Anyway glad to have had shot nr 1. Hope everyone else who wants the jab gets it soon :thumbsup:
 
Not saying she isn't right, but remember The German Corona Extra-Parliamentary Inquiry Committee is a bunch of people who think the pandemic is made up. Hardly surprising the resident troll uses them to make a point

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The committee was founded by four trial attorneys to investigate and prosecute those responsible for implementing the economically devastating lockdowns around the world, as well as using fraudulent testing to engineer the appearance of a dangerous pandemic. Dr Reiner Fuellmich, of the German Corona investigative committee and his team are now preparing one of the largest damage lawsuits in history against the perpetrators of what he calls the Corona fraud and one of the greatest crimes against humanity ever committed. Fuellmich stated ‘this corona crisis, according to all we know today, must be renamed a corona scandal; and those responsible for it must be criminally prosecuted and sued for civil damages."
 
In some of the trials, the control group were given a saline injection but in others a meningitis or septicaemia vaccine, this helps the 'blinding' process for the trial. However:

The main problem with including something active in the placebo, such as another vaccine, is that it can confuse researchers when they measure side-effects.

We determine whether an active treatment has a particular side-effect, such as redness and swelling at the site where the needle went in, by comparing it with a placebo. In the same way that we conclude that an active treatment works if it is better than a placebo, we conclude that it is harmful if it has more side-effects than the placebo.

The problem is that we rarely know how to interpret side-effect information in trials because researchers rarely report what’s in placebo. Reporting placebo ingredients, specifically in vaccine trials, is not common. This makes it difficult to tell what the true harms of the vaccine are. The same applies to most treatments tested in trials with unknown placebos.


Jeremy Howick
Director of the Oxford Empathy Programme, University of Oxford
 
Shocker just waiting on the oracle on his 5000 word essay on how it managed to crawl its way back to the land of the free pffffffff..
"No nights out this weekend eh" circuit breaker by any chance??
I always look out for the time that leaving the EU is weaved into the problem
 
Shocker just waiting on the oracle on his 5000 word essay on how it managed to crawl its way back to the land of the free pffffffff..
"No nights out this weekend eh" circuit breaker by any chance??

Not just the one case either, 59 new cases.

Well, he won't be going to the pub soon by the look of things.

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Sorry mate, clicked the link and the appearance of the website and none stop pop ups tells me all I need to know without reading anything lol.
What did you need to know and why did you come to your conclusion that it is not worth digesting?
I am hammering the last few hours of VS freerolls so that is why I dumped that here. Too often things pass me by
 
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6,040 cases in the UK. -1,394
158 deaths in the UK. -132
826 patients admitted to hospital in the UK. -285
10,898 patients in hospital in the UK. -3,910
1,542 patients on ventilation in the UK. -429

Yesterday's figures compared to a week ago, Considering Sunderland at one point had 130 deaths in a day, for national to be down to 158 is amazing progress.
 
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Mass vaccinating people who the virus poses little risk to, is asking for trouble and making it worse.

Everything the UK has done regarding covid has been wrong, and anti good science practice. From day one until right now.

And it is costing non covid lives, thousands of excess non covid deaths been recorded in the home. Its costing jobs, businesses and the future health and wealth of this country.
 
View attachment 151743
Mass vaccinating people who the virus poses little risk to, is asking for trouble and making it worse.

Everything the UK has done regarding covid has been wrong, and anti good science practice. From day one until right now.

And it is costing non covid lives, thousands of excess non covid deaths been recorded in the home. Its costing jobs, businesses and the future health and wealth of this country.
I have just watched the video interview he did.



Geert Vanden Bossche PhD, is an internationally recognised vaccine developer having worked as the head of the Vaccine Development Office at the German Centre for Infection Research.

Coordinated Global Alliance for Vaccines and Immunisation's Ebola Vaccine Program and contributed to the implementation of an integrated vaccine work plan in collaboration with Global Health Partners (WHO, Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, CDC, UNICEF), regulators (FDA) and vaccine manufacturers to enable timely deployment or stockpiling of Ebola vaccine candidates.

Highlighting the principle of using a prophylactic vaccine in the midst of a pandemic. Likely to create more more viral variants in the process.

Sharing his perspective on mass vaccination in COVID-19.
 
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Mass vaccinating people who the virus poses little risk to, is asking for trouble and making it worse.

Everything the UK has done regarding covid has been wrong, and anti good science practice. From day one until right now.

And it is costing non covid lives, thousands of excess non covid deaths been recorded in the home. Its costing jobs, businesses and the future health and wealth of this country.
Presumably this has been peer reviewed, do you have a link to it, or is it a scientist talking bollocks to get into the news? Makes bold claims but absolutely no sources for them, or links to evidence what he says is true.

Pretty much the same as you do every time you come in the thread trolling.

I could write a tweet on unicorns being real, doesn't mean I'm right.
 
Just a follow up to the vid posted above, interesting this man is an expert in vaccine R&D, has worked for the gates foundation and Gavi, so not an anti-vaxxer. I would like to see him have a discussion with whitty or valance, if somebody highly trained and an expert in this field has such serious concerns to put his reputation and career on the line, it should at least trigger analysis and scientific debate.

I was always concerned we're doing something without fully understanding the possible consequences, the complexity of the immune system and the fact viruses mutate to survive, add in DNA and mRNA being used for the first time like this in a vaccine...to think it's all easy peasy, just get this jab, may not be the best course of action in the longer term.

If we'd sensibly used ivermectin, vit d, HQC etc.. we could have bought some more time to research this virus and then create the best strategy to protect against it.

Be interesting to hear any pov why the points made by this doctor have no bearing or can be discarded, what the counter is to his raised concerns.

1615141786628.png
 
Be interesting to hear any pov why the points made by this doctor have no bearing or can be discarded, what the counter is to his raised concerns.
I have no idea if he's right or not, but I do know the way to get your research taken seriously is to publish a paper on it and have it peer reviewed. Not make a twitter post saying 'I'm right, the rest of the world is wrong'.

He makes claims but doesn't back a single one up with evidence or citations, how can anyone take it seriously?

Problem with this type of thing is, the people who want it to be true, jump on it and start sharing it as if it's fact. There are people out there who genuinely believe the earth is flat, if I make a long twitter post stating the earth is flat, with long words and make it sound like I know what I'm talking about, then I dare say some of those would believe me. It doesn't make it right.
 
I have no idea if he's right or not, but I do know the way to get your research taken seriously is to publish a paper on it and have it peer reviewed. Not make a twitter post saying 'I'm right, the rest of the world is wrong'.

He makes claims but doesn't back a single one up with evidence or citations, how can anyone take it seriously?

Problem with this type of thing is, the people who want it to be true, jump on it and start sharing it as if it's fact. There are people out there who genuinely believe the earth is flat, if I make a long twitter post stating the earth is flat, with long words and make it sound like I know what I'm talking about, then I dare say some of those would believe me. It doesn't make it right.

I think he is working on a paper, gave a recent speech at a vaccine summit in Ohio and posted slides of that on drive.google

I must admit the science goes over my head, but I think I get the general point he is making, and basically we don't know enough re the virus, also how some people fight it off quickly with very few ill-affects and others end up in the ICU. When we ought to know that before vaccinating everyone to create antibodies to that specific spike.

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Would be interesting for someone equally or more qualified to address the concerns he has raised, using evidence and research etc... There are quite a few docs/scientists on twitter who know about vaccines and viruses, so hopefully some kind of discussion can take place there if nowhere else. At the end of that video he does seem quite worried and concerned, and very serious.

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This kind of thing is a related concern I believe, when somebody who has previously had covid then reacts after having the vaccine, might be extremely rare, but the science needs to establish why:
Did I watch a different video to you? He specifically states theres no evidence the vaccine had anything to do with the death, and tells everyone the way to avoid it happening is to get vaccinated :confused:
Unless I'm missing your point?
 
Looking at figures around the world they are dropping in most places and deaths are going down even in countries without the vaccination programmes. In fact probably the only place in world that has the most dramatic rise in last week is the Isle Of Man. Amazing that Chopley was online today but never posted in this thread today or all week in fact when IOM is getting hit so bad.

Remind us all again Chopley how perfect they have managed this and how you have showed the way to stop the virus. Maybe you are too busy having a pint to post here. Oh forgot you can no longer do that. Amazing tho how you can gloat on here about how perfect it is in Isle of Man and how wonderful you have controlled it yet when it all goes tits up you suddenly lose your voice.

Anyway getting pissed of with the lockdown. And after todays events in Glasgow i think we will be in Lockdown for months more. But after a year of it all in a City that has never had the hospitals overrun I can see why Thousands have went Sod this lets party. That and the fact it is a great day lol. But the scenes during the Lockdown today i fear will keep this city locked down for longer. Add that to the fact many are now going that since it was allowed for 2 days they are now just going to just do as they please and visit whoever they wish all does not bode well.

Then again Lockdown was to protect the NHS. In Scotland it was not overwhelmed at any point. The Elderly and at risk have been Vaccinated. No real need to be saying in 2 months that we will be going back to tier system. when England is not.

Time will tell but soon as the warmer weather comes in i see most just ignoring the rules.

Only 2 good things came out of Today. Obviously Rangers being back where they belong. And more Importantly if the tweets are anything to go by then this has been the worst few weeks in Sturgeons career. Salmond Investigation. Polls showing support for Independence had dropped. And today many of her voters telling her they have had enough of her and will never vote SNP again for letting the fans party and for not doing enough to stop it. Oh you could not make it up that the people that would never vote for her have helped her lose even more votes.
 
Did I watch a different video to you? He specifically states theres no evidence the vaccine had anything to do with the death, and tells everyone the way to avoid it happening is to get vaccinated :confused:
Unless I'm missing your point?

The doc in the video says get the vaccine to prevent the infection in the first place, but mr williams who died had no active virus in his body when he became ill, and they said he never knew he had had covid. The 'science' needs to be sure having the vaccine played no part in him developing MIS

edit: without doing masses of research I can't see how he could determine it either way, the man was alive, had a vaccine and then 2 weeks later developed Multi system failure from his body attacking itself. To say it was a delayed reaction from Covid [which he never knew he'd had] and nothing to do with the vaccine, stretches the cause and effect factor for me, but only indepth, independent science could say is my guess.

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On a separate point, there is a small risk of making a virus more dangerous [as far as I understand the science] with a vaccine that does not produce sterilizing immunity, due to mutations so that it can survive and pass onto somebody else.
 
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The doc in the video says get the vaccine to prevent the infection in the first place, but mr williams who died had no active virus in his body when he became ill, and they said he never knew he had had covid. The 'science' needs to be sure having the vaccine played no part in him developing MIS

edit: without doing masses of research I can't see how he could determine it either way, the man was alive, had a vaccine and then 2 weeks later developed Multi system failure from his body attacking itself. To say it was a delayed reaction from Covid [which he never knew he'd had] and nothing to do with the vaccine, stretches the cause and effect factor for me, but only indepth, independent science could say is my guess.
Right but he also talks about other cases, and didn't mention any of them having the vaccine, but did say they all had had covid, therefore the one thing in common with them all is having Covid-19, not having a vaccine. That surely points towards the vaccine not having caused the death rather than contributing to it.
If this is one doctor in one hospital, with more than one of these deaths, then surely there must be thousands worldwide, so I think it would be known by now that the vaccine was possible causing these deaths if it were the case.
 
Right but he also talks about other cases, and didn't mention any of them having the vaccine, but did say they all had had covid, therefore the one thing in common with them all is having Covid-19, not having a vaccine. That surely points towards the vaccine not having caused the death rather than contributing to it.
If this is one doctor in one hospital, with more than one of these deaths, then surely there must be thousands worldwide, so I think it would be known by now that the vaccine was possible causing these deaths if it were the case.

True, there must be a lot of nurses and docs with natural antibodies who have had one of the vaccines by now, yet no other reported cases. Maybe there is a small, specific group of people vulnerable to developing MIS, and the vaccine here was coincidental to that and simply not related.
 
Obviously a worker from outside must have brought it in whilst kayaking from the mainland ..

Not a kayaking worker, but one who works for the ferry company... Not bringing in tourists, etc, but food supplies etc.
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From that last month, we now have 315 active cases
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& yep, we're in another lockdown.
 
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Looking at figures around the world they are dropping in most places and deaths are going down even in countries without the vaccination programmes. In fact probably the only place in world that has the most dramatic rise in last week is the Isle Of Man. Amazing that Chopley was online today but never posted in this thread today or all week in fact when IOM is getting hit so bad.

Remind us all again Chopley how perfect they have managed this and how you have showed the way to stop the virus. Maybe you are too busy having a pint to post here. Oh forgot you can no longer do that. Amazing tho how you can gloat on here about how perfect it is in Isle of Man and how wonderful you have controlled it yet when it all goes tits up you suddenly lose your voice.

I stopped posting to this thread weeks ago, it makes my brain hurt too much. (Checking my profile my last post to this thread was Feb 19th, long before the latest outbreak and lockdown on the IOM, so please don't falsely accuse me of running away from the thread as a result of that, when I'd already made the decision to check out of this thread, as it was making me just not want to visit Casinomeister at all.)

But yes, Covid is back here and it's bad, they know what the 'index case' was, it got back onto the island via a ferry crew member, they thought they were containing the cluster of cases via contact tracing and self-isolation but it managed to get out into the wider community.

They've identified the weakness in the process that allowed it to happen, so we won't have the same mistake made again, but it's too late for this outbreak.

Honestly, I think we locked down too late this time, particularly going into the final weekend before lockdown when the advice was 'don't go out but we're not ordering anywhere to close' which a lot of people took as a cue to have a final party weekend since everyone knew at that point another lockdown was coming (the police reported they were called about multiple noisy late night parties), then they changed the advice to 'everything's alright carry on folks' for one day, and then there was more community spread and the lockdown was ordered, but at that point there was already quite a bit of community transmission. They also had the schools back in for two final days which TBH I thought was crackers, and there has been quite a bit of spread via schools too. (I'd been saying on a local WhatsApp group for days that we should be in lockdown already, or that at the very least social distancing, mask wearing, enhanced hygiene protocols etc should have been re-instated.)

I fear we are going to have a few more days of high case numbers before the lockdown starts to take effect, and we already have several people in hospital. I'm hoping that we don't get any symptoms in our household, not least because our daughter is disabled and Mrs Chopley is her primary carer. As a registered carer Mrs Chopley might be entitled to get vaccinated early, she's enquired about this. (As she's only 47 she'd be a long way down the list otherwise.)

On a personal note a colleague of mine was one of the early cases in this outbreak, he's a healthy bloke in his late 40s, works out, goes to the gym, very fit and active, he's been in hospital twice now and been on oxygen twice, has had complications into pneumonia and has basically seen his good health completely wiped out - our hope is that he recovers and doesn't end up suffering from long-Covid, but he really has been very, very ill.

As for the 'gloating' about going to the pub, I apologised for that post the very next day and explained what I'd intended by it.

So yes, we're back in lockdown, IMO mistakes were made and they need to be learned from, but we've beaten this virus back twice before, and we'll do it again, the island community pulls together at times like this, and we'll get out on the other side, I'm just hoping that we don't lose any lives to it this time around.
 
Looking at figures around the world they are dropping in most places and deaths are going down even in countries without the vaccination programmes. In fact probably the only place in world that has the most dramatic rise in last week is the Isle Of Man. Amazing that Chopley was online today but never posted in this thread today or all week in fact when IOM is getting hit so bad.

Remind us all again Chopley how perfect they have managed this and how you have showed the way to stop the virus. Maybe you are too busy having a pint to post here. Oh forgot you can no longer do that. Amazing tho how you can gloat on here about how perfect it is in Isle of Man and how wonderful you have controlled it yet when it all goes tits up you suddenly lose your voice.

Anyway getting pissed of with the lockdown. And after todays events in Glasgow i think we will be in Lockdown for months more. But after a year of it all in a City that has never had the hospitals overrun I can see why Thousands have went Sod this lets party. That and the fact it is a great day lol. But the scenes during the Lockdown today i fear will keep this city locked down for longer. Add that to the fact many are now going that since it was allowed for 2 days they are now just going to just do as they please and visit whoever they wish all does not bode well.

Then again Lockdown was to protect the NHS. In Scotland it was not overwhelmed at any point. The Elderly and at risk have been Vaccinated. No real need to be saying in 2 months that we will be going back to tier system. when England is not.

Time will tell but soon as the warmer weather comes in i see most just ignoring the rules.

Only 2 good things came out of Today. Obviously Rangers being back where they belong. And more Importantly if the tweets are anything to go by then this has been the worst few weeks in Sturgeons career. Salmond Investigation. Polls showing support for Independence had dropped. And today many of her voters telling her they have had enough of her and will never vote SNP again for letting the fans party and for not doing enough to stop it. Oh you could not make it up that the people that would never vote for her have helped her lose even more votes.
Wee Nicola Krankie must be sweating like Alec Salmond when walking through the typing pool. Especially when he has as good as said the current Scottish administration isn't fit to govern an independent country. And the week when even the lefty Private Eye (which I read though) has called the EU and especially German attitude to the UK Oxford Vaccine 'beyond stupid'. Apparently Merkel has realized her crass idiocy now, when in Berlin 3800 slots were made for administering the OAZ vaccine each day last week and less than 10% turned up for it. Of those 90% who didn't, statistically many will die as a result. Petty vaccine nationalism and moronic unfounded comments by the senile Merkel and poison dwarf Macron have shown how spiteful and petty the EU is, and has further justified our national vote to fuck-off out of it. :thumbsup:

They'd rather snipe at the UK than save lives of their own citizens.
 
If this comes true with the covid vaccines, we're all going to be on a vaccine treadmill for the rest of our time, nice little earner for bill and friends, 'regular updates required'

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[article date 2015]

A new study is the first to confirm a highly controversial theory: that some vaccines could allow more virulent version of a virus to survive, putting unvaccinated individuals at greater risk of severe illness.

The research has implications for human health, as well. The World Health Organization recently reported laboratory-confirmed cases in China of human infection with the avian influenza virus, including a number of deaths.

“We humans never have experienced any contagious disease that kills as many unvaccinated hosts as these poultry viruses can, but we now are entering an era when we are starting to develop next-generation vaccines that are leaky because they are for diseases that do not do a good job of producing strong natural immunity—diseases like HIV and malaria,” Read says.

“Vaccines for human diseases are the least-expensive, most-effective public-health interventions we ever have had,” Read says. “But the concern now is about the next-generation vaccines. If the next-generation vaccines are leaky, they could drive the evolution of more-virulent strains of the virus.”

The researchers recommend rigorous testing and vigilant monitoring of next-generation vaccines to prevent the runaway evolution of more-virulent strains of viruses that their research has confirmed can occur with leaky vaccines.

“If some day we have a malaria vaccine or an HIV vaccine, of course we should use those vaccines, but we would be in significant danger if those vaccines turned out to be leaky and we had not developed effective ways to eradicate any strains that might become more virulent,” Read says.

Read also recommends vaccination for individual protection. “When evolution toward more-virulent virus strains takes place as a result of vaccination practices, it is the unvaccinated individuals who are at the greatest risk. Those who are not vaccinated will be exposed, without any protection, to the hottest strains of a virus. Our research provides strong evidence for the importance of getting vaccinated.”

The experiments took place in a specialized pathogen-containment facility at the Pirbright Institute in the United Kingdom. [ no prizes :p but guess who's a major stake holder ]
 
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Which is why mass vaccinating people not at statistical risk of dying from covid, and enacting lockdowns and social distancing are the WRONG way to deal with it.

Many experts are screaming this, but are cancelled, silenced and called conspiracy theorists.

Look at the Great Barrington Declaration. It was written by a collection of the worlds top scientists in the field of epidemiology, but ignored and shouted down.

Putting on my conspiracy hat, you do have to wonder if this was all planned now, because most counties of the 1st world are following a suicidal policy which is destroying our economies, and making covid deadlier at the same time.

Vaccine passports now being touted, come on, people who said this was their aim last year were ridiculed as mad conspiracy idiots!!
 
I wonder why this potential for a 'leaky vaccine' effect isn't seen with the flu jab as they provide about 50% protection typically, but flu doesn't seem to be getting worse afaik. The swine flu was a scare but petered out to not much at all.

Next winter will probably be the real test of where we are, is covid-19 back again or can't get a foothold due to the millions vaccinated stopping its spread.
 
I wonder why this potential for a 'leaky vaccine' effect isn't seen with the flu jab as they provide about 50% protection typically, but flu doesn't seem to be getting worse afaik. The swine flu was a scare but petered out to not much at all.

Next winter will probably be the real test of where we are, is covid-19 back again or can't get a foothold due to the millions vaccinated stopping its spread.
This man I quoted yesterday is convinced we are heading to hell, I hope he's wrong but its his life's work and he's one of the worlds top experts.

 
This man I quoted yesterday is convinced we are heading to hell, I hope he's wrong but its his life's work and he's one of the worlds top experts.



I found what he had to say quite worrying to say the least, but I did wonder afterwards why has he suddenly come to this conclusion or concern now, as the plan we'd be getting out of this via mass vaccination has been on the table since last march.

But he did stress the point you don't vaccinate during a pandemic, so maybe that is the key point he's worried about?
 
Mack I hope hes completely wrong, but to my non scientific mind he sounds more plausible than SAGE!!

Just found another alarm call written by him in the comment section of this article, very long it is.

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"I cannot emphasize enough that continuing these vaccination endeavors will dramatically prolong, instead of shorten, the current pandemic and take a much higher toll in terms of disease and fatality rates in all of the population. It goes without saying that a such enhancement of this crisis will come with unbearable socio-economic consequences for many years to come.

The manuscript will provide compelling evidence that – as far as acute self-limiting viral infections are concerned - the natural course (i.e., without human intervention!) of a Coronavirus pandemic is typically featured by 3 waves that ultimately flatten as the infection merges into a seasonal ‘common cold.’ However, it is difficult to predict how long it would take a natural Covid-19 pandemic to ‘downgrade’ to yet another kind of seasonal ‘common cold’ without human intervention. Maybe somewhere between 2 to 4 years, but that’s a personal guess. This is, of course, not to say that in the meantime one should not do whatever is possible to mitigate the disease in those developing severe symptoms. But first, “do no harm” (“primum non nocere”): Given the huge amount of immune escape that will be provoked my mass vaccination campaigns and flanking containment measures, it is difficult to imagine how human interventions would not cause the Covid-19 pandemic to turn into an incredible disaster for global and individual health."

I would have been able to put the appended manuscript together without having dedicated the last 10 years of my career to designing an entirely new vaccine concept that aims at enabling our immune system to kill a multitude of infectious (and even, noninfectious) diseases without allowing the pathogen, or any ‘variant’ editions thereof, to escape the immune response induced. In contrast, all of the current Covid-19 vaccines rely on strengthening adaptive (as opposed to innate) immunity in general, and humoral (i.e. antibodies) in particular. Hence, none of them will prevent immune escape and, for that matter, all will be subject to anti-viral resistance. Adapting the composition to the new circulating variants does not solve the problem as science tells us that this will even accelerate the rate of immune escape (in asymptomatic Covid-19 carriers).


and so on for another 18 paragraphs!

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Not sure if something has been lost in translation, but in that part above is he touting some new vaccine concept? I think the titanic ship of vaccination programmes is too big to turn around now, so I just hope he is misreading the dangers.
 
Just found another alarm call written by him in the comment section of this article, very long it is.

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"I cannot emphasize enough that continuing these vaccination endeavors will dramatically prolong, instead of shorten, the current pandemic and take a much higher toll in terms of disease and fatality rates in all of the population. It goes without saying that a such enhancement of this crisis will come with unbearable socio-economic consequences for many years to come.

The manuscript will provide compelling evidence that – as far as acute self-limiting viral infections are concerned - the natural course (i.e., without human intervention!) of a Coronavirus pandemic is typically featured by 3 waves that ultimately flatten as the infection merges into a seasonal ‘common cold.’ However, it is difficult to predict how long it would take a natural Covid-19 pandemic to ‘downgrade’ to yet another kind of seasonal ‘common cold’ without human intervention. Maybe somewhere between 2 to 4 years, but that’s a personal guess. This is, of course, not to say that in the meantime one should not do whatever is possible to mitigate the disease in those developing severe symptoms. But first, “do no harm” (“primum non nocere”): Given the huge amount of immune escape that will be provoked my mass vaccination campaigns and flanking containment measures, it is difficult to imagine how human interventions would not cause the Covid-19 pandemic to turn into an incredible disaster for global and individual health."

I would have been able to put the appended manuscript together without having dedicated the last 10 years of my career to designing an entirely new vaccine concept that aims at enabling our immune system to kill a multitude of infectious (and even, noninfectious) diseases without allowing the pathogen, or any ‘variant’ editions thereof, to escape the immune response induced. In contrast, all of the current Covid-19 vaccines rely on strengthening adaptive (as opposed to innate) immunity in general, and humoral (i.e. antibodies) in particular. Hence, none of them will prevent immune escape and, for that matter, all will be subject to anti-viral resistance. Adapting the composition to the new circulating variants does not solve the problem as science tells us that this will even accelerate the rate of immune escape (in asymptomatic Covid-19 carriers).


and so on for another 18 paragraphs!

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Not sure if something has been lost in translation, but in that part above is he touting some new vaccine concept? I think the titanic ship of vaccination programmes is too big to turn around now, so I just hope he is misreading the dangers.

That second part just makes it sound he had an idea, presented it but it was decided not to use it and now he is trying to get his message of that particular technology out by utilising scare tactics.

Anyway, on the part of what he calls escape strategy: other scientists claim that by letting the virus run rampant it'll mutate too to evade the natural procured herd immunity. Which is what is seen in, especially, the Brazilian mutant. In Manaus they had achieved what could be called herd immunity, there had been so many people infected in the first wave that doctors thought atleast 70% of the population was immune and then the Brazilian variant knocked on the door and the same happened again.

In the end he wouldn't vaccinate using the current technology used and let us go through 2 to 4 years of the pandemic by using mitigating tactics aka lockdowns and other measures like masks. I understand that you are a vaccination sceptic but you are also against lockdowns so this must be confusing...

Just like you I hope he's wrong.
 
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That seconds part just makes it sound he had an idea, presented it but it was decided not to use it and now he is trying to get his message of that particular technology out by utilising scare tactics.

Anyway, on the part of what he calls escape strategy: other scientists claim that by letting the virus run rampant it'll mutate too to evade the natural procured herd immunity. Which is what is seen in, especially, the Brazilian mutant. In Manaus they had achieved what could be called herd immunity, there had been so many people infected in the first wave that doctors thought atleast 70% of the population was immune and then the Brazilian variant knocked on the door and the same happened again.

In the end he wouldn't vaccinate using the current technology used and let us go through 2 to 4 years of the pandemic by using mitigating tactics aka lockdowns and other measures like masks. I understand that you are a vaccination sceptic but you are also against lockdowns so this must be confusing...

Just like you I hope he's wrong.

:laugh: yes it is very confusing, but I find it helps having a bit of a discussion, to air out a few concerns... vaccine sceptic is a fair way of describing my outlook, I have certainly relied on my fair share of antibiotics and painkillers over the years so I'm not anti-modern medicine per se, and pleased/hopeful when I see new advanced treatments for things that plague people's lives.

I think a mix of treatments [eg ivermectin or other things] and vaccines is the best, balanced approach to cater for everyone, on top of the natural immune system of the fit and healthy.
 
:laugh: yes it is very confusing, but I find it helps having a bit of a discussion, to air out a few concerns... vaccine sceptic is a fair way of describing my outlook, I have certainly relied on my fair share of antibiotics and painkillers over the years so I'm not anti-modern medicine per se, and pleased/hopeful when I see new advanced treatments for things that plague people's lives.

I think a mix of treatments [eg ivermectin or other things] and vaccines is the best, balanced approach to cater for everyone, on top of the natural immune system of the fit and healthy.

Found this in the comments on one of Dr. Vanden Bossche's tweets

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Some takes:

"Many RNA viruses, despite their great potential variability, have been unsuccessful in escaping vaccine immunity, as they were unable to generate a mutant fit to both replicate and escape from the vaccine-induced immune response (e.g., measles, rubella and many others)."

"Therefore, even if SARS-CoV-2 were able to generate a variant that escapes vaccine immunity, it should not be taken for granted that this variant would be able to replicate with a fitness similar to that of the initial viral variant from which it was generated."

"However, we cannot rule out the possibility that a SARS-CoV-2 mutant will escape vaccine immunity and retain its fitness and pathogenicity. This is the reason that genomic surveillance of the new variants is crucial and will be even more important once a large part of the population is vaccinated."

"Concern about SARS-CoV-2 variants should not cause panic but instead should prompt efforts to ensure that all the necessary steps for mitigating variant impact are taken in advance through the development of tools that detect and characterize these new strains in a timely and standard manner."
 

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