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happy 40th!
Corona virus - Covid 19 discussion
- Thread starter shadow123
- Start date
happy 40th!
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- Oct 25, 2006
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- London the sh$thole
Average age of covid death 82, yet we have shut down the country for nearly a year now to "save lives" of those who in all likelihood would have died this year anyway.
Are we starting to see the insanity of lockdown policy finally.
If not, we certainly will in the next year or so, with millions of job losses, business failures and poverty on a massive scale.
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I think you now have reached the part in this thread where you are being a complete asshole.
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It is terrible when you get elderly, during this lockdown seen a lot of frail people sat behind glass panes in care homes, near the end of their lives, it's bloody sad, and ideally we'd have more time for them and more compassion [let's face it we will all be in similar situations to varying degrees]
Most years recently [the 2000's onwards] has been all about consumerism and the self, the elderly people are forgotten in our youth/looks obsessed society.
But do all the measures in place make a significant difference to those people age 80+ stops them from catching covid, adds quality to their life? And how easy or hard is it for the care workers and staff not to accidentally pass it onto them seeing as they are breathing the same air. [esp in winter when the windows are likely shut]
The bills have to be paid too, there is no benevolent billionaire just going to lend us money for free, if it was so easy to just lend ourselves the money for whatever we like, why is the country so hard-up with services routinely cut most years, e.g. shutting public libraries, meals on wheels, cancer medicines refused due to cost, closing hospitals etc..., all sorts have faced the chop/squeeze.
I think morally, as a whole, society has made a big enough sacrifice and effort for nearly a year, yes there are pillocks not obeying the rules, having parties and socialising etc..when you think back to that age it is hard to be entirely condemning, it is their life as well after all.
Once the elderly and vulnerable have had the required vax doses surely then schools and nurseries need to re-open, MPs back in the hoc, have some normality return before the summer?
Most years recently [the 2000's onwards] has been all about consumerism and the self, the elderly people are forgotten in our youth/looks obsessed society.
But do all the measures in place make a significant difference to those people age 80+ stops them from catching covid, adds quality to their life? And how easy or hard is it for the care workers and staff not to accidentally pass it onto them seeing as they are breathing the same air. [esp in winter when the windows are likely shut]
The bills have to be paid too, there is no benevolent billionaire just going to lend us money for free, if it was so easy to just lend ourselves the money for whatever we like, why is the country so hard-up with services routinely cut most years, e.g. shutting public libraries, meals on wheels, cancer medicines refused due to cost, closing hospitals etc..., all sorts have faced the chop/squeeze.
I think morally, as a whole, society has made a big enough sacrifice and effort for nearly a year, yes there are pillocks not obeying the rules, having parties and socialising etc..when you think back to that age it is hard to be entirely condemning, it is their life as well after all.
Once the elderly and vulnerable have had the required vax doses surely then schools and nurseries need to re-open, MPs back in the hoc, have some normality return before the summer?
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What a complete load of absolute shite you talk.
What about all the people who wouldn't be able to use NHS services if we had just let the virus run wild? Were you not saying that cancer patients weren't getting treatment during the first lockdown so people will have died through that? If there were no beds as we didn't have a lockdown then they wouldn't have been treated either, or is your attitude, 'well they had cancer so would have died anyway'?
There is no evidence to back up your view, in fact, it's been shown to you previously that it's likely not to be the case.
How have all the numbers dropped, for the third time running, during this lockdown, when, according yo you, they don't work?
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Sweden's numbers have dropped just the same, WITHOUT a lockdown.
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- London the sh$thole
And as for the NHS being overwhelmed, well it wasnt, and never would have been.
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now i know you're trolling. Get a life man, seriously.
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You've missed the part off that chart where it shows how many were actually available, not just bare figures.
You know, actually available for anyone to use, so not in a covid hot ward, not in a ward where half the staff are off work etc
There are real world accounts from members on here stating their local hospitals couldn't cope.
Hospitals in London were having to send patients to the North as they had no beds.
If numbers doubled, which they would have with no lockdown, then those hospitals that did have capacity, wouldn't have, so where would you have sent those patients then?
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A man of Davis's standing? What is that then, the resident clueless clown?
He got his degree back in 1971, so he's not exactly up to date.
His more recent genius interventions have been on Brexit.
So yeah, on balance, he's an intellectual giant on par with a slightly dense penguin trying to work out how to drive a car.
Also, as noted by sufferinsilence above, he's fundamentally misunderstanding both the data and the timelines of the expected effectiveness of the vaccination campaign.
This David Davis, just for reference.
And when he famously turned up to a complicated Brexit debate as ill-prepared as a student who's done bugger all revision for an important exam, and promptly got bent over (and the UK got bent over by proxy) by Barnier.
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Also, in other news, I'm off to the pub at 2pm with a group of mates, and later on we'll be going for a meal at a nice restaurant.
This is what happens when your lockdown works, and there's a proper strategy, and you manage to eliminate Covid from your country - both lives and businesses can get back to normal.
Ask New Zealand about it, or Australia, or Taiwan etc.
This is what happens when your lockdown works, and there's a proper strategy, and you manage to eliminate Covid from your country - both lives and businesses can get back to normal.
Ask New Zealand about it, or Australia, or Taiwan etc.
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Missed this, but these are the stats for that week
Of the deaths registered in Week 4 in England and Wales, 8,433 mentioned "novel coronavirus (COVID-19)"; this is the second-highest weekly number recorded during the pandemic and an increase of 11 deaths compared with Week 3.
I would expect someone who is that intelligent to know that 8433 is less than 10000, so even if every single death was in the over 80's it wouldn't be over 10000. Unless he meant over 10k deaths in all settings, but then why would the vaccine have any effect on non covid deaths?
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It's not so much that, or rather, it isn't intended to come across like that.
I just get utterly fed up of some of the patent nonsense that's spouted off in this thread, all stuff that is exactly what a virus needs to continue to circulate in a population and lead to endless cycles of ineffective lockdowns and restrictions on both life and business.
The UK government has been utterly shit from start to finish, allowing mixing over Christmas seeded the disaster that has been reaped in January and February, throw in vaccine-scepticism, boasting about not wearing about masks and attending parties, siding with utter horseshit like The Great Barrington Declaration, abusing facts and figures, re-reporting the latest crap from Facebook and Twitter from utterly discredited sources, and generally misunderstanding things on such a fundamental level that it genuinely makes my brain hurt.
So if I'm coming across as rude or aloof I apologise, but I have precisely fucking zero patience left when it comes to this shit.
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I get all of that. I don't think for one minute that anyone enjoys not seeing their family, not going to the pub or for a night out. Could it have been handled better? With the benefit of hindsight, perhaps. But this Government (and many others in the world) had to do something taking everything including the economy and peoples mental health into account.
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Not according to dealer. You should do nothing at all and if lots of people die hey hoe. As long as he can work and live his life we can eat cake !
Not doing anything would be one side of the extreme. Doing it the Wuhan way by essentially locking everybody in their house is the other extreme.
Governments across the world tried to find a middle ground.
The majority of Europe is in a similar boat to ours. It is not just the UK Government that made decisions that could have been made better.
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Yes dead on mate u live on a small bloody island just like new Zealand all be it Australia is not so small and as for Taiwan etc different cultures more etc..
Tell us where do the IOM source their vaccinations from?? supplied by gov. UK by any chance just like the commitant to defend the island..
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- Mar 25, 2012
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- IOM
Simple single example, the UK government only imposed mandatory quarantine on travellers IN THE LAST WEEK.
Irrespective of the size of the UK, it's still an island state, they could have done that a year ago, how many hundreds of thousands of infections, and thus thousands of deaths, could be attributed to that single terrible mistake alone?
NZ closed their borders, Taiwan closed their borders, Australia closed their borders, we closed our borders.
There's a pretty simple pattern there.
Note the date on this, the UK has been flying thousands of people in every single say, from all over the world, for all of the last year.
All of these deflections of 'Well we couldn't do that in the UK because of REASONS' are just that, deflections.
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- midlands
No reaction so far to the Pfizer jab yesterday apart from a sore arm, but for the first time in months i slept
solid all night.
solid all night.
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- IOM
Borders are still a matter for national governments when it comes to emergency measures, the EU has no say over that.
For example when France closed its borders to the UK at the end of 2020, that was a decision for the French government, the EU had no authority to overrule it.
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I don't know exactly when the vaccination program rolled out and what percentage of the 80's had their shot, I just presume he saw these stats and was expecting to see less deaths. He's been around the block a long time, and as I say, has a degree in molecular science from 1971, so he must be intelligent enough to know the various permutations going on, despite Chopley's brexit put downs!
[I wonder how many of those 8433 deaths were care home residents?] For me it's good he has made this point, it starts a debate if nothing else, people can contact him with further information, or even just dispute the concern he has posted in his twitter replies.
paul7388
Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
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You must search online to seek the only countries that had no cases. Taiwan seriously .
They are about the only few countries you mentioned that never had cases yesterday.
Guess an Island like Japan must have had same problem as UK as they were hit bad and still are. South Korea is very strict but they had nearly 500 cases again yesterday.
But must be great to live on Isle of Man. Do not see you saying how great the government did on keeping the Scilly Isles Covid free and out of lockdown for most of the pandemic.
Yeah out government did make a complete balls up of whole situation. But so did just about the rest of Europe and most of the world.
You never seem to post how bad things are in many other countries. Just seem to pick out the very few that have handled it well. Not much different from dealer the way he goes on about Sweden.
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I think he was probably basing that brexit conclusion on a longer time scale than 6 weeks, give it 5 years and let's see how we're doing compared to before.
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Can't be true - surely lockdowns don't make the number of cases fall, do they @dealer wins ?
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He obviously didn't consider those who are suffering with these lock downs in the UK with spouting shite like "we are going to the pub this afternoon then out for a meal tonight".
I see he didn't answer my question about where the vaccations the IOM are using original came from??.
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- Jul 10, 2016
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- North east England
Yeah because comparing your little isle to the uk is totally reasonable pal...
kind of like comparing Sweden to us one would of thought.
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- Jul 10, 2016
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- North east England
It’s easy to cast judgment when it doesn’t affect you at all sat safe in your home with no worries.
he does that a lot.
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Aye sat safe at home under the knowledge that when it all goes tits up theGOV. UK will pull us out..
Pffffffffff
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Anybody else wonder why the UK is still getting high infection and death figures over 6 weeks after the Xmas relaxation of
the restrictions,who and where are the people still spreading infections bearing in mind schools are shut and we have bèen lockdown
all this year, just seems bit oďd.
I know the figures are dropping slowly but part of that must be the effect of the vaccination program
starting to kick in, logically there must still be widespread contact and lack of social distancing in certain places
or its still being brought into the country from abroad
the restrictions,who and where are the people still spreading infections bearing in mind schools are shut and we have bèen lockdown
all this year, just seems bit oďd.
I know the figures are dropping slowly but part of that must be the effect of the vaccination program
starting to kick in, logically there must still be widespread contact and lack of social distancing in certain places
or its still being brought into the country from abroad
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- Joined
- Jan 28, 2016
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We aren't really. It takes around 2 weeks for infections to go up/down, another 2/4 weeks for hospitalisations and another couple for deaths.
Infection figures are now around 20% of the highest point, admissions about 75% and deaths about the same, but they are dropping and we should see substantial drops in the hospitals and deaths by the time he's thinking about sending the schools back, 8th March.
Things aren't dropping as quickly as last time as it's not as strict a lockdown.
The vaccinations will be helping, but probably not as much as people think, as theres not that many had the second jab yet
14,012,224 (503,116) people have received 1st dose of vaccination in the UK. +3,041,177
530,094 (5,647) people have received 2nd dose of vaccination in the UK. +24,101
These are yesterday's figures
15,144 cases in the UK. -3,970
758 deaths in the UK. -256
1,908 patients admitted to hospital in the UK. -670
24,352 patients in hospital in the UK. -6,156
3,036 patients on ventilation in the UK. -536
30th Jan
23,275 cases in the UK. -10,277
1,200 deaths in the UK. -148
3,117 patients admitted to hospital in the UK. -1,008
34,783 patients in hospital in the UK. -3,116
3,832 patients on ventilation in the UK. -244
16th Jan
41,346 cases in the UK. -18,591
1,295 deaths in the UK. +260
4,532 patients admitted to hospital in the UK. +481
37,475 patients in hospital in the UK. +5,181
3,789 patients on ventilation in the UK. +691
I think there has been pretty substantial drops
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Good evening folks I'd just like to apologise for my post yesterday about going to the pub. It honestly wasn't intended to be rubbing anyone's nose in it or anything like that, it was supposed to be an expression of frustration with how badly wrong the Covid response has gone in the UK (and indeed in so many other countries in the world), and that how with the correct response it's possible to beat the thing back and return to the things we enjoy and need, seeing our friends and family and doing what used to be normal.
I totally get that we're a small island and it's not comparing apples with apples, but then there are other much larger countries in the world that have done so much better.
I'm not personally unaffected by this stuff. All my family are in the UK (I'm the only one who moved over here, I have no blood relatives on the island), I haven't seen my mum or dad, or my brothers and sister, for over a year. I can't go and visit my last surviving grandparent who is in her mid 90s and could go at any time, and if she dies I won't be able to go to her funeral.
I'm in regular contact with my family in the UK and I know all too well how shite lockdowns have been in the UK, family units and friend networks basically ripped apart and kept in isolation, people out of work, businesses destroyed, and it annoys me, even though I don't live there, I know how bad it has been.
I guess what I was trying to say yesterday was 'There's something better that's possible here, focus on that, focus on the fact that this will end eventually, but demand better from your government and do what you can to help'.
I'm not making excuses though, reading that post back to myself it's insensitive and it's cack-handed and it strikes entirely the wrong tone, and I'm sorry for that.
Honestly, I really hope you get back in the UK what we've got back here on the IOM as soon as possible. We've had two lockdowns here now, I know they're not fun, and I hope you folks get your normal lives back sooner rather than later.
I totally get that we're a small island and it's not comparing apples with apples, but then there are other much larger countries in the world that have done so much better.
I'm not personally unaffected by this stuff. All my family are in the UK (I'm the only one who moved over here, I have no blood relatives on the island), I haven't seen my mum or dad, or my brothers and sister, for over a year. I can't go and visit my last surviving grandparent who is in her mid 90s and could go at any time, and if she dies I won't be able to go to her funeral.
I'm in regular contact with my family in the UK and I know all too well how shite lockdowns have been in the UK, family units and friend networks basically ripped apart and kept in isolation, people out of work, businesses destroyed, and it annoys me, even though I don't live there, I know how bad it has been.
I guess what I was trying to say yesterday was 'There's something better that's possible here, focus on that, focus on the fact that this will end eventually, but demand better from your government and do what you can to help'.
I'm not making excuses though, reading that post back to myself it's insensitive and it's cack-handed and it strikes entirely the wrong tone, and I'm sorry for that.
Honestly, I really hope you get back in the UK what we've got back here on the IOM as soon as possible. We've had two lockdowns here now, I know they're not fun, and I hope you folks get your normal lives back sooner rather than later.
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I didnt read your post in the manner above, I read it more as this is what happens when a lockdown is down properly and people follow it.
Anyone who has read this thread knows that the lockdown isnt being followed in most of the country, thats why you are able to go to the pub while the rest of us cant.
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What rubbish... you can’t compare to where he lives to anywhere else lol!!
just like when @dealer wins was slated for comparing Sweden to the uk
during this pandemic you cannot compare anyone’s response to another.. to say So is pure folly as every country is not comparable, for starters has where @ChopleyIOM lives got the mass bame cities we have in the uk?..
the infrastructure I could go into, the travel hubs etc..
And fair play for @ChopleyIOM post it was in a gloating way, no other way to read it but he’s said what he did above so again fair play.
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I disagree, did you see what happened in Wuhan when they did a proper lockdown for a month? A city of 11 million people and it was virtually eradicated?
How about New Zealand, 5 million people and no Covid, people getting on with their day to day lives.
Australia's 25 million people are getting on with things, mostly, because they locked down and people had to adhere to it.
Nothing to do with BAME, its to do with lock downs being real lock downs not something where most people go about life as normal anyway.
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- Jan 28, 2016
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Certainly in NZ and Aus the demographics of the country come into play too, but agree the stricter lockdown had a lot to do with it.
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Piffle.
you can’t compare, if this is your argument then @dealer wins was right all along regarding Sweden.
you can’t pick and choose when it suits your narrative.
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- May 23, 2015
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So Wuhan with 11 million people locks down for a month and virtually eradicates the virus, and that means nothing?
Lock downs work when they are adhered to, its been proved.
And sorry to disappoint you, but I am nothing like dealer and BAME has nothing to do with the virus in the UK, its that fact that people still ignore the partial lockdown that we have here, they think they can just do what they want.
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BAME has nothing to do with the virus in the uk?
Ha!!
so the fact they are much higher risk regarding COVID has nothing to do with it in the uk?..
The fact many of that community will refuse a vaccine has nothing to do with it..
how many large bame communities has @ChopleyIOM isle got?...
It’s got a hell of a lot to do with it, unless of course your ignoring more facts that don’t suit your narrative.
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- Belfast
BAME has nothing to do with it, the fact is that if people had followed the first lockdown and not partied, went shopping, went to the beach, went on holiday, went to the mosque or the church etc and stayed in for 4 weeks, there would have been no need for lockdown 2 or 3.
Its all about killing the virus by stopping the spread, its not only BAME who spread the virus and I don't understand why your focus always turns in that direction.
Well the virus can't be killed. It is all over the press today that we will have to live with it and that some of the population will always be vulnerable to it, same as they are vulnerable to the flu.
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- Jan 8, 2019
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- Essex
I can see why you would compare and draw an example from the IOM.
By comparing better with your own is how you merit success and learn.
IOM lockdown was carried out swifter and I imagine adhered to better than the UK. Granted one mistake for us and the results are more devastating but the fact still remains that we locked down late and lets face it, since the first lockdown, which was late, the subsequent ones have not really been as serious or taken as serious as the first.
We told everyone to not bother with masks and did not enforce our lockdowns like we should have. Was there a BLM protest on the IOM? Serious question but i doubt it because it was a stupid thing to do. I dare say on the IOM anybody caught flaunting or not taken it seriously would have been commandeered much quicker and in a more serious way than our nanny state. Video of party goers in Brixton running the Police out - embarrassing!
One mistake after another while with other countries and the IOM in comparison the ones who have done well have acted swiftly, without prejudice and decisively.
We should look at them and say we could have and should have done that. Why didnt we and what did they do differently? I cant think of one thing we could not have accomplished that others did.
By comparing better with your own is how you merit success and learn.
IOM lockdown was carried out swifter and I imagine adhered to better than the UK. Granted one mistake for us and the results are more devastating but the fact still remains that we locked down late and lets face it, since the first lockdown, which was late, the subsequent ones have not really been as serious or taken as serious as the first.
We told everyone to not bother with masks and did not enforce our lockdowns like we should have. Was there a BLM protest on the IOM? Serious question but i doubt it because it was a stupid thing to do. I dare say on the IOM anybody caught flaunting or not taken it seriously would have been commandeered much quicker and in a more serious way than our nanny state. Video of party goers in Brixton running the Police out - embarrassing!
One mistake after another while with other countries and the IOM in comparison the ones who have done well have acted swiftly, without prejudice and decisively.
We should look at them and say we could have and should have done that. Why didnt we and what did they do differently? I cant think of one thing we could not have accomplished that others did.
Resource for a start.... all and well having those rules and regulations but if there is nobody to enforce it then you get what happened. Different perhaps in Wuhan where they are used to dictorial regimes.
And of course the IOM did it better than us. How many entry points do they have compared to England for a starter. Last time I checked, the IOM is also not a transit hub to other countries, such as London is.
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- North east England
It’s frankly not comparable.
It’s like saying the Shetland islands done well to be honest.
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- May 8, 2018
- Location
- south east england
If you want to look at the far east, don't forget japan, 6,800 deaths with no real lockdown and yet greater tokyo has a pop of 37 million.
They've had 413,000 cases and we've had 4 million with about half the size of population. [126m Japan's total pop, and median age 48 compared to uk's 40]
All the top uk Govt scientists should be out there [rather than on the tv media and twitter] trying to work out the exact reasons for their comparative success. If we'd been able to match them we'd have approx 3,500 deaths instead of 116,000 [adjusted for population] that's the gap.
They've had 413,000 cases and we've had 4 million with about half the size of population. [126m Japan's total pop, and median age 48 compared to uk's 40]
All the top uk Govt scientists should be out there [rather than on the tv media and twitter] trying to work out the exact reasons for their comparative success. If we'd been able to match them we'd have approx 3,500 deaths instead of 116,000 [adjusted for population] that's the gap.
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2019
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- Essex
Over 130,000 Police Officers, Army plus the 80,000 or so reserves.
Ummm, what else can i think of? Borers closed late, misniformation, delayed sourcing of PPE. return to school to quick and not cautious enough, the list goes on and on of failure after failure.
We had the man-power, we didnt employ it.
Im yet to be convinced the UK government carried out anything except for the recent roll out of vaccinations effectively.
Edit: Police reserves? It wouldnt have come to it if we had enforced it correctly and sent out the correct message.
2nd Edit: Im not saying it was not easier for them but it could have been easier for us.
You're serious? Army on the streets? We're not North Korea.
I say it again, this and every other Western Government had to way up so many factors and find a middle ground between doing nothing and the other extreme of imprisoning everybody in their home.
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