Corona virus - Covid 19 discussion

[geordiecolin]

While being very pro vaccination, i find the prospect of having 2 jabs, one from each type of vaccine rather
worrying bearing in mind no one has any idea what the effect will be as the mechanisms of the vaccines
are totally different, Think it needs a lot more research and testing and if I have to make the decision whether
to have a second jab with a different vaccine i would pass at the moment and hope the first jab has given
sufficient immunity.

What I find disturbing about the vaccines is this. They had their account deleted as usual because there is a concerted effort to suppress any questioning of the vaccines and even accessing this page almost broke my computer. With the billions invested by governments I would have thought they would have started with the basics first when it came to building up the starting blocks for a new vaccine?

 

[colinsunderland]

What I find disturbing about the vaccines is this. They had their account deleted as usual because there is a concerted effort to suppress any questioning of the vaccines and even accessing this page almost broke my computer. With the billions invested by governments I would have thought they would have started with the basics first when it came to building up the starting blocks for a new vaccine?


View attachment 148387

It nearly broke your computer because of all the scripts running on that page. That should be enough to make you question the information on it. I saw less stuff running on 13 year olds myspace accounts back in the 90's

Anyone who says Fergusons model was 'catastrophic' while trying to explain virology would fill me with suspicion, as they clearly either haven't read it, or understood it.

Her twitter account is unlikely to have been suspended for that, considering how many others have shared it and still got their accounts.

 

[colinsunderland]

The revised figures for the 29th Dec now show the figure rises up to 74,510 cases (by specimen date)

 

[ChopleyIOM]

A few key points from this informative thread, reading the whole thing would be best but I'll take a few headlines from it.

Covid is putting healthy people into ICU and it's killing them, people in their 40s and early 50s who were living normal lives. 25% of Covid ICU admissions are aged 52 or younger.

This myth that it's somehow only affecting people who were basically at death's door is just that, a myth. Also, someone having a pre-existing condition (which can be very minor), or obese, or BAME, doesn't make them somehow less worthy to carry on living, and nor should it sentence them to 'protecting themselves' from the rest of the world for the rest of their lives. (Which is literally impossible anyway.)

And in 2-3 weeks things are going to be disastrous.

 

[geordiecolin]

It nearly broke your computer because of all the scripts running on that page. That should be enough to make you question the information on it. I saw less stuff running on 13 year olds myspace accounts back in the 90's

Anyone who says Fergusons model was 'catastrophic' while trying to explain virology would fill me with suspicion, as they clearly either haven't read it, or understood it.

Her twitter account is unlikely to have been suspended for that, considering how many others have shared it and still got their accounts.

What do you disagree with?

 

[electronictonic]

It nearly broke your computer because of all the scripts running on that page. That should be enough to make you question the information on it. I saw less stuff running on 13 year olds myspace accounts back in the 90's

Anyone who says Fergusons model was 'catastrophic' while trying to explain virology would fill me with suspicion, as they clearly either haven't read it, or understood it.

Her twitter account is unlikely to have been suspended for that, considering how many others have shared it and still got their accounts.

You cannot be serious....if this is not catastrophic I don't know what is.

 

[colinsunderland]

You cannot be serious....if this is not catastrophic I don't know what is.

Are you trying to compete with dealer?

Those figures have already been discussed in this thread, why don't you go and actually read what the reports said rather than rely on a meme for your data source ffs? The report mentioned 500,000 deaths, nowhere close to 'millions of deaths', and it didn't predict them

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Thats the report, feel free to show where it predicts millions of deaths though.

Did you have a link to the UN stuff you posted yesterday or was it just made up?

 

[cncas2123]

While being very pro vaccination, i find the prospect of having 2 jabs, one from each type of vaccine rather
worrying bearing in mind no one has any idea what the effect will be as the mechanisms of the vaccines
are totally different, Think it needs a lot more research and testing and if I have to make the decision whether
to have a second jab with a different vaccine i would pass at the moment and hope the first jab has given
sufficient immunity.

Dont think theres any possibility of that happening, the vaccines are inherently different and the second dose has to be the same vaccine as is first given as its acting a bit like a booster dose, its the second dose that sends the bodies defences into overdrive.

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[slotplayer]

The Ferguson model caused panic.

Right at 2.32 of the video. 30,000 ventilators for NY alone.

Mar 24, 2020

 

[colinsunderland]

Dont think theres any possibility of that happening, the vaccines are inherently different and the second dose has to be the same vaccine as is first given as its acting a bit like a booster dose, its the second dose that sends the bodies defences into overdrive.

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The article was pure bullshit, what it was about was the NHS advice on it

Link to the NHS Green Book

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What I really don't think they should be doing is extending the time between the first and second from 3 weeks to 12 weeks. It's likely to be less effective doing it that way.

 

[bamberfishcake]

Anybody seen this about Tiffany Dover? The nurse who had a vaccine then fainted.

My friend sent me a link to a video and though i know not enough to comment its created a bit of a storm.

 

[sufferinsilence]

Anybody seen this about Tiffany Dover? The nurse who had a vaccine then fainted.

My friend sent me a link to a video and though i know not enough to comment its created a bit of a storm.

I've heard of this story and some people could definitely use a different hobby. They're basically doxxing this woman.

 

[bamberfishcake]

I've heard of this story and some people could definitely use a different hobby. They're basically doxxing this woman.

Had to look at what doxxing meant but yes it seems you hit the nail on the head.

It means nothing really. Lots of reasons for people to faint, especially nurses

 

[slotplayer]

I don't think she died. It would be all over the cable news here.

Here is the local news report.

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[sufferinsilence]

Had to look at what doxxing meant but yes it seems you hit the nail on the head.

It means nothing really. Lots of reasons for people to faint, especially nurses

And if there was something seriously wrong with the vaccines they're using right now I'm pretty sure they would've stopped by now. Despite what some crazies are thinking we're not living in 1 big conspiracy. I'm actually 100% certain there are going to be people who die a couple of days after receiving the vaccine, simply because right now we're mostly vaccinating the elderly but I'm also 100% certain this will be abused by said crazies.

Other than that: yes, there's going to be people who have adverse reactions to vaccines.

 

[sufferinsilence]

.

 

[sufferinsilence]

This stupid picture doesn't want to show up... So I'll just link the Reddit thread

 

[colinsunderland]

I've heard of this story and some people could definitely use a different hobby. They're basically doxxing this woman.

Yep I agree. This is why I'm so against fake news being posted, it can literally kill people. I'll put money on, seeing the reports on this will have stopped some people getting the vaccine as 'they saw that nurse die'. That could, in turn, lead to deaths.

People posting fake news should have their accounts banned everywhere they post it. I am 100% behind freedom of speech, but thats not the same. If you post lies then you should accept responsibility for your actions.

 

[bamberfishcake]

And if there was something seriously wrong with the vaccines they're using right now I'm pretty sure they would've stopped by now. Despite what some crazies are thinking we're not living in 1 big conspiracy. I'm actually 100% certain there are going to be people who die a couple of days after receiving the vaccine, simply because right now we're mostly vaccinating the elderly but I'm also 100% certain this will be abused by said crazies.

Other than that: yes, there's going to be people who have adverse reactions to vaccines.

In the main i agree.

Its not as though we have a unified front for the wholehearted benefit of the human race though and therein lies the problem for me to trust the vaccines being pushed.

Why do we have a mixture of vaccines from around the world? One must be better for the human race than the other? I think ts a financially driven motive not a humanity based one. History tells us what happens when governments put wealth before health.

Politicians like Matt Hancock have lied and been flexible with the truth from the start until only last month so I cant trust what they say. The world is too far gone it seems to come together and collaborate.

Lets face it, the right thing to do is team up and produce the ultimate vaccine, not wrangle and jostle to get one off the shelves.

This all leaves me suspicious of a vaccine it seems we all need.

 

[sufferinsilence]

In the main i agree.

Its not as though we have a unified front for the wholehearted benefit of the human race though and therein lies the problem for me to trust the vaccines being pushed.

Why do we have a mixture of vaccines from around the world? One must be better for the human race than the other? I think ts a financially driven motive not a humanity based one. History tells us what happens when governments put wealth before health.

Politicians like Matt Hancock have lied and been flexible with the truth from the start until only last month so I cant trust what they say. The world is too far gone it seems to come together and collaborate.

Lets face it, the right thing to do is team up and produce the ultimate vaccine, not wrangle and jostle to get one off the shelves.

This all leaves me suspicious of a vaccine it seems we all need.

The reason we have a multitude of vaccines (in development) is imo because of 1. the urgency of the situation and ofcourse 2. capitalism. More than 1 pharma company has been given public and private grants to R&D these vaccines ASAP. In the end probably 1 or 2 vaccines will be seen as the most effective for the lowest production price and the others won't be produced anymore. That's the way it works.

I don't know if it would've been better to just have every pharma company developing the same vaccine. We'll never come together as a world, there's too many forces against globalism. Even in the EU healthcare is up to nations individually.

No idea what this Hancock fella has told you as I don't follow British politics

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Also when the vaccines went into development you had many different teams trying many different approaches, no one knew at the start of the process which ones would end up being effective and which ones wouldn't, most vaccine development programmes fail for one reason or another, 'spreading the bet' as it were makes perfect sense when you're in a serious hurry to develop something that works.

You don't have to trust Matt Hancock, you need to trust the scientists, the extensive testing, and the approval processes that the vaccines have gone through. (Which are exactly the same as all other vaccines go through, they've simply accelerated the process and run some stages in parallel to get things done quicker, plus the concerted effort and manpower they've thrown at Covid far outstrips what a vaccine development effort normally receives, not least because there is of course some serious cash to be made but hey, that's capitalism.)

 

[ChopleyIOM]

People posting fake news should have their accounts banned everywhere they post it. I am 100% behind freedom of speech, but thats not the same. If you post lies then you should accept responsibility for your actions.

I was thinking about this the other day, I wouldn't like to see anyone get banned here but at the same time when you see absolute complete baseless lies and misinformation being posted on a near daily basis, you do start to wonder if there's some sort of system of checks or balances required. (Especially as, when challenged to back up said lies, there is never any response whatsoever.)

I also hate this catch-all defence of 'Well it's just my opinion' - some things are an opinion, that's fine, but equally, some things are simply factually incorrect.

If I say, 'The earth is flat, just my opinion', it doesn't make my statement any less wrong.

Remember THE GREAT BARRINGTON DECLARATION? How's that one looking now? It was called out at the time by people who, y'know, actually knew what they were talking about, as a load of dangerous horseshit. Ain't no one advocating for that anymore.

 

[slotplayer]

I just heard it on the news last night, they said Wuhan had a 76 day lockdown.
But who is this Sam Bowman character, China has a totalitarian government.

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[dealer wins]

I have absolutely no doubt this is where covid was born.

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[dealer wins]

The Great Barrington Dec is still the correct way for dealing with this "pandemic"

 

[slotplayer]

The virus was just a way of delivering the nano tracking technology in the vaccines.

 

[bamberfishcake]

I didnt express my view clearly enough regarding the vaccines.

I understand it takes time and trials to make an effective one. I also have a basic understanding of Capitalism. What i was trying say, rather poorly, is that for me to believe and trust in one i would need to see the motive behind its creation to be for the sole benefit of man. Not produced cheaper or faster or brushed over because they want to beat somebody else to the finish line.

Screw the money. Capitalism has no place in the fight against a worldwide pandemic.

And if i cant trust the politicians because of their blatant bull how can i trust the vaccine they are pushing when their investments are in the pharma's?

Millions wasted already - not an exaggeration.......literally millions! Where has that money gone? Certainly wont be trickled down into my pockets. Its in theirs...again. Maybe i would think differently if i lived in another part of the world but not many from what i read.

Their pulling the wool over all of our eyes and i dont trust them. They have already sacrificed lives for money. That's my dilemma but im not having any vaccine pushed on me yet thankfully.

Edited to remove swearing, my apologies.

 

[geordiecolin]

Anybody seen this about Tiffany Dover? The nurse who had a vaccine then fainted.

My friend sent me a link to a video and though i know not enough to comment its created a bit of a storm.

I was aware of this story yesterday but I will wait to see what transpires with it.

 

[colinsunderland]

I was aware of this story yesterday but I will wait to see what transpires with it.

She has a condition that causes her to faint after injections.
She had an injection and fainted.
The internet went into meltdown with fake news saying she had died.
She didn't.

Not really anything else to say on it from what I can see, just the usual shite that people against the vaccine peddle, to further their cause.

If people are against the vaccine they don't have to have it. If not, they can. I don't see why people have to try to get others to change their mind, especially by making up stories about people dying after they have had it.

 

[Gaz237]

I was aware of this story yesterday but I will wait to see what transpires with it.

This happened on Dec 17th.

She has a vagal infection which made her prone to faint, she is alive and well

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[shadow123]

Pretty sure the UK will soon be in lockdown again (well the British version of lockdown where nothing really changes),
The infection figures are already at record levels and can only get worse as the effects of xmas click in.
Boris is still banging on about schools, how safe they are, total crap, if I was teacher no way would I be going
back tommorrow, someone needs to remind him that employers have a duty of care and whatever he is saying
now all schools will have to close before long.
Its really a race now between infections and the vaccine rollout,going to be close.

 

[geordiecolin]

My ex partner has just told me that her Union has just sent her and fellow teachers a section 44 letter demanding that they be allowed to teach remotely.

Here is a very interesting thing

 

[Gaz237]

Pretty sure the UK will soon be in lockdown again (well the British version of lockdown where nothing really changes),
The infection figures are already at record levels and can only get worse as the effects of xmas click in.
Boris is still banging on about schools, how safe they are, total crap, if I was teacher no way would I be going
back tommorrow, someone needs to remind him that employers have a duty of care and whatever he is saying
now all schools will have to close before long.
Its really a race now between infections and the vaccine rollout,going to be close.

I stand to be corrected here, but was listening to LBC last night and believe the union has sent an email to all teachers telling them to not return to work, was half asleep though/

Colin beat me. yes that was it.

Can't see why Boris is so hell bent on schools reopening on time?

 

[interlog]

I stand to be corrected here, but was listening to LBC last night and believe the union has sent an email to all teachers telling them to not return to work, was half asleep though/

Colin beat me. yes that was it.

What is every other key worker in the other industries did the same or are they not susceptible to the virus? The country would literally come to a standstill then.

 

[cncas2123]

I stand to be corrected here, but was listening to LBC last night and believe the union has sent an email to all teachers telling them to not return to work, was half asleep though/

Colin beat me. yes that was it.

Can't see why Boris is so hell bent on schools reopening on time?

He needs to get the schools back so that the children of the key workers etc have somewhere to go to during the day, that would be my thoughts. Doctors, nurses, care workers, police, shop workers, bus drivers, train drivers and anyone who needs to be working to keep society functioning over the next few weeks will have children and as grandparents arent being recommended to mind the children in my mind school as at least somewhere they can be that is a safe and structured place.
It could also be that if a percentage of children cant get access to education for a longer period are we storing up more problems for the future?

 

[Gaz237]

What is every other key worker in the other industries did the same or are they not susceptible to the virus? The country would literally come to a standstill then.

The kids of key workers would still attend school. The same as before

And to be honest the world and his wife suddenly become key workers here.

We need another lock down here as we are closer than we have ever been to the NHS collapse

 

[interlog]

The kids of key workers would still attend school. The same as before

And to be honest the world and his wife suddenly become key workers here.

We need another lock down here as we are closer than we have ever been to the NHS collapse

What I was meant to say is that you just can't down tools just like that what they are effectively doing.

If Government (rightly or wrongly) says so, then so be it.

Proper lockdown needed indeed, not disagreeing with that at all. But it needs to be proper, just like the one in China was. Not a half baked attempt at one.

 

[Playford7]

What is every other key worker in the other industries did the same or are they not susceptible to the virus? The country would literally come to a standstill then.

Totally agree, teachers have enough time off as it it... lol

 

[Gaz237]

What I was meant to say is that you just can't down tools just like that what they are effectively doing.

If Government (rightly or wrongly) says so, then so be it.

Proper lockdown needed indeed, not disagreeing with that at all. But it needs to be proper, just like the one in China was. Not a half baked attempt at one.

I see your point better now.

Closing the schools to all the non key worker kids, should contain the virus to some degree, more so if those parents are also off work in lock down.

If you only have 1 member going out for supplies etc.

It comes down to what is the lesser of both evils i suppose.

Kids miss school now, hopefully catch up in summer, or the NHS crashes and everyone is up shit creek

 

[colinsunderland]

After I posted about the union letter yesterday I did a little digging and I'm not so sure they can rely on section 44 (or section 100) in the way the union seem to think they can. Having said that, I don't think any board of governors would dare dismiss a teacher under these circumstances either, Will be interesting to see what happens.

There are quite a few schools round here saying they are closed now. A lot of parents saying they aren't sending their kids in. Bojo will back down on this, I would expect schools closed completely (apart from key worker kids) by the end of the week.

He keeps saying schools are safe. Then delays secondary schools going back. So not safe then. Then closes primary schools in London, so not safe then.

The only reason he doesn't want to close schools, especially primary schools, if that they provide free childcare for people at work. It has nothing to do with safety at all.

They keep saying they are 'following the science'. In that case the schools should be closed as they were advised before they broke up.

 

[bamberfishcake]

My ex partner has just told me that her Union has just sent her and fellow teachers a section 44 letter demanding that they be allowed to teach remotely.

Here is a very interesting thing

Thanks for posting that.

Whats interesting for me is where he says nobody has been tasked with looking at 'repurposed' drugs. So my layman interpretation is that nothing already developed, or on the market, is being considered for a vaccine in the States.

And.....the only development is for newly manufactured drugs to be considered?

His body language looked awkward to me near the beginning but he was also uncomfortable defending himself, as most people are. Aside from that he seemed very convincing.

I looked at the drug he mentions (I think i have it right).....

Ivermectin

Ivermectin is a medication used to treat many types of parasite infestations. This includes head lice, scabies, river blindness, strongyloidiasis, trichuriasis, ascariasis, and lymphatic filariasis. It can be taken by mouth or applied to the skin for external infestations. Use in the eyes should be avoided.

Anybody know if repurposed drugs are being considered in the UK or other countries? Anybody know more about this panel and their advice?

 

[Gaz237]

After I posted about the union letter yesterday I did a little digging and I'm not so sure they can rely on section 44 (or section 100) in the way the union seem to think they can. Having said that, I don't think any board of governors would dare dismiss a teacher under these circumstances either, Will be interesting to see what happens.

There are quite a few schools round here saying they are closed now. A lot of parents saying they aren't sending their kids in. Bojo will back down on this, I would expect schools closed completely (apart from key worker kids) by the end of the week.

He keeps saying schools are safe. Then delays secondary schools going back. So not safe then. Then closes primary schools in London, so not safe then.

The only reason he doesn't want to close schools, especially primary schools, if that they provide free childcare for people at work. It has nothing to do with safety at all.

They keep saying they are 'following the science'. In that case the schools should be closed as they were advised before they broke up.

I get the impression Boris is trying pass the buck on key decisions. Schools need closing, its happening without him having to do it.

Interview with him earlier on TV stating stronger measures are going to be needed, but wont say what?

 

[colinsunderland]

I get the impression Boris is trying pass the buck on key decisions. Schools need closing, its happening without him having to do it.

Interview with him earlier on TV stating stronger measures are going to be needed, but wont say what?

Exactly, closing schools won't be popular. People will have to pay for childcare (which makes a mockery of the current Tier 4 rules), or take unpaid leave from work, possibly ending up in dismissal in some cases. This way, he can say, we didn't close the schools, it was those scummy teachers.

 

[geordiecolin]

Thanks for posting that.

Whats interesting for me is where he says nobody has been tasked with looking at 'repurposed' drugs. So my layman interpretation is that nothing already developed, or on the market, is being considered for a vaccine in the States.

And.....the only development is for newly manufactured drugs to be considered?

His body language looked awkward to me near the beginning but he was also uncomfortable defending himself, as most people are. Aside from that he seemed very convincing.

I looked at the drug he mentions (I think i have it right).....

Ivermectin

Ivermectin is a medication used to treat many types of parasite infestations. This includes head lice, scabies, river blindness, strongyloidiasis, trichuriasis, ascariasis, and lymphatic filariasis. It can be taken by mouth or applied to the skin for external infestations. Use in the eyes should be avoided.

Anybody know if repurposed drugs are being considered in the UK or other countries? Anybody know more about this panel and their advice?

He and the panel have been responsible for over 2000 peer reviewed papers I believe. The drug is also known as Stromectol. If I lived in America I would buy some as a precaution.

 

[bamberfishcake]

He and the panel have been responsible for over 2000 peer reviewed papers I believe. The drug is also known as Stromectol. If I lived in America I would buy some as a precaution.

Can it be bought in the UK?

 

[cncas2123]

Can it be bought in the UK?

This is what this drug is and what its for - but I suppose if some people recommend injecting bleach and using HCQ and other unproven treatments, go for it....

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[paul7388]

This is what this drug is and what its for - but I suppose if some people recommend injecting bleach and using HCQ and other unproven treatments, go for it....

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No expert in drugs and would very much doubt that one would help for Covid.

But then again you never know. Many drugs that are for certain illnesses actually get used for other illnesses you would not expect.

I was prescribed drugs that are normally for Pneumonia or Bronchitis to fight a skin infection. And they worked.

So it is actually quite surprising that many medicines that are created for a particular illness end up being very effective for other things that would not be expected.

 

[cncas2123]

No expert in drugs and would very much doubt that one would help for Covid.

But then again you never know. Many drugs that are for certain illnesses actually get used for other illnesses you would not expect.

I was prescribed drugs that are normally for Pneumonia or Bronchitis to fight a skin infection. And they worked.

So it is actually quite surprising that many medicines that are created for a particular illness end up being very effective for other things that would not be expected.

Agree that theres a lot of drugs out there used " off label" which basically means that they are being prescribed for a different condition than their primary use, but with this one its basic use is to kill worms and parasites, nothing close to a viral infection.

 

[Playford7]

Exactly, closing schools won't be popular. People will have to pay for childcare (which makes a mockery of the current Tier 4 rules), or take unpaid leave from work, possibly ending up in dismissal in some cases. This way, he can say, we didn't close the schools, it was those scummy teachers.

Totally he will put it on the unions. Can see that coming a mile off.

 

[bamberfishcake]

This is what this drug is and what its for - but I suppose if some people recommend injecting bleach and using HCQ and other unproven treatments, go for it....

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Yes i saw that was one of its uses but a quick search shows more.

Given the choice of taking something like this after watching that video or being on deaths door id probably pop a pill or two as a last ditch attempt.

Hardly the same as injecting bleach. Ill leave that one for you to try thanks