Corona virus - Covid 19 discussion

[dealer wins]

All I hear day after day is 1000 different reasons why Sweden's covid situation cant be compared with everyone else's.

Its like people don't want to believe they got it right, and also haven't inflicted mental torture on their citizens, haven't destroyed their citizens businesses and jobs etc

Its like the world has planned this somehow, and Sweden is an annoyance.

Why isnt everyone saying, hold on, they are now through this, maybe we should change our approach. It makes no logical sense.

 

[colinsunderland]

Going from that chart, I would say London is slightly more densely populated

The Office for National Statistics said that there are 5,701 people per square kilometre on average in the capital.

But the level of crowding is even greater in some boroughs with Tower Hamlets and Islington recording the highest population density of any local authority in the country with more than 16,000 people per kilometre each.

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[colinsunderland]

All I hear day after day is 1000 different reasons why Sweden's covid situation cant be compared with everyone else's.

Its like people don't want to believe they got it right, and also haven't inflicted mental torture on their citizens, haven't destroyed their citizens businesses and jobs etc

Its like the world has planned this somehow, and Sweden is an annoyance.

Why isnt everyone saying, hold on, they are now through this, maybe we should change our approach. It makes no logical sense.

Because you can't compare it.

 

[dionysus]

Heh, had to look up the difference between the region i live in and the Stockholm region.
What ive circled is population and how many people are living per square kilometer.
Bit less crowded in my region.

View attachment 143439

I'm just glad there isn't a spelling quiz

 

[Kroffe]

I'm just glad there isn't a spelling quiz

It should be one.
Im forced to use a foreign language when making posts, or else people complain "we dont understand"
Its really not fair.

 

[Kroffe]

Going from that chart, I would say London is slightly more densely populated

The Office for National Statistics said that there are 5,701 people per square kilometre on average in the capital.

But the level of crowding is even greater in some boroughs with Tower Hamlets and Islington recording the highest population density of any local authority in the country with more than 16,000 people per kilometre each.

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Oh but that Stockholm region, not the city alone.
The city has 3 856 inv./km² so while its more packed in london, its not worlds apart.

Edit: Even where i live the population density in Umeå which only has about 110k population is 2 818 inv./km²

 

[paul7388]

It should be one.
Im forced to use a foreign language when making posts, or else people complain "we dont understand"
Its really not fair.

Oh Bother.

Feel free to post in the Swedish section then and noone will complain.

 

[Kroffe]

Oh Bother.

Feel free to post in the Swedish section then and noone will complain.

Tagga ner lite hörru innan du får en smocka rakt i nyllet.

 

[paul7388]

Tagga ner lite hörru innan du får en smocka rakt i nyllet.

Lol that translated as
Tag down some flax before you get a pacifier straight into the stuff.

But i think even i understand what you were meaning.

 

[ternur]

It should be one.
Im forced to use a foreign language when making posts, or else people complain "we dont understand"
Its really not fair.

Hai!

I'm with you on this one Kroffe.

And on top of that, there's always some grammar police lurking and scoring our non native English posts.

Life's hard. Let's all have a drink!

 

[Kroffe]

Lol that translated as
Tag down some flax before you get a pacifier straight into the stuff.

Haha, yeah i had to check myself what it would translate to.

Its basically "cool down a bit before i hit you straight in the face"

But using mostly slang, google translate cant keep up.
Also, sorry for threathening to punch you in the face.

 

[paul7388]

Haha, yeah i had to check myself what it would translate to.

Its basically "cool down a bit before i hit you straight in the face"

But using mostly slang, google translate cant keep up.
Also, sorry for threathening to punch you in the face.

Wow showing your true colours now.

And i thought you were nice and my friend.

But in reality it is all a ruse and this is really you.

 

[Kroffe]

Wow showing your true colours now.

And i thought you were nice and my friend.

But in reality it is all a ruse and this is really you.

View attachment 143440

Dont be like that =(
Friends fight all the time.

Proof.
Old Attachment (Invalid)

 

[dealer wins]

Because you can't compare it.

You so can. Every country has different population numbers, density, ethnicity etc. But Sweden sticks out like a sore thumb, an outlier, and the proven correct way to deal with covid. And the experts who signed the great Barrington Declaration all agree too.

 

[colinsunderland]

You so can. Every country has different population numbers, density, ethnicity etc. But Sweden sticks out like a sore thumb, an outlier, and the proven correct way to deal with covid. And the experts who signed the great Barrington Declaration all agree too.

So how did they do worse than their immediate neighbours who have (I believe) a similar make up, but did a full lockdown like the UK did?

 

[Kroffe]

I cant believe it has come full circle and we are back to shitting at Sweden again.

Old Attachment (Invalid)

 

[dealer wins]

So how did they do worse than their immediate neighbours who have (I believe) a similar make up, but did a full lockdown like the UK did?

Worse lol they did so much better, and unlike their neighbours they are not subject to yet more inhumane lockdowns right now.

 

[colinsunderland]

Worse lol they did so much better, and unlike their neighbours they are not subject to yet more inhumane lockdowns right now.

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However, Sweden has so far reported 5,832 deaths caused by Covid-19, more than six times as many as Denmark (264) and Norway (629) combined

So what am I missing? I'm not massively up to date with things going on, but Sweden's figures look quite a bit worse from those graphs?

 

[Kroffe]

Worse?
We are way ahead in both cases & deaths.
The other Nordic countries dont stand a chance.
Go Sweden!

Old Attachment (Invalid)

 

[dealer wins]

Yeah lets compare them to selected countries rather than the the worlds average. And Sweden's citizens are not mentally tortured, mask wearing state controlled guinea pigs!!!

 

[colinsunderland]

Yeah lets compare them to selected countries rather than the the worlds average. And Sweden's citizens are not mentally tortured, mask wearing state controlled guinea pigs!!!

You forgot to explain how they did so much better?

And yes, of course you try to compare like with like. You should be doing that with any comparison for anything, otherwise the comparison is worthless.

 

[sufferinsilence]

Ofcourse they are state controlled guinea pigs, just the other way around than how you think you are being controlled.

Also, this isn't over yet. How can we be sure Sweden had it "right"? They might see a massive surge when other countries are getting over it. They had a bit of a surge over the summer when the rest of Europe had a small reprieve.

 

[slotplayer]

As long as we can still get pizza I'm good.

 

[Harry_BKK]

I see the usual subjects are still out in force.

We had one of the harshest lockdowns at some point - 1 person/family allowed to leave home for essential purchases, effective tracing, everything except essential places closed, mask and social distancing mandate, high fines for not complying (up to 6 months jail for repeat offenders), sign in and out when entering supermarket/mall/public places, an army of specialists doing contact tracing, isolation mandates for suspected cases and close contacts (surveyed 24/7 via phone app), masks distributed to every household (FOC), etc.

And before you start, yes, they missed the worker dormitories. It took them 3 months to get control and they did it in the harshest way possible. Complete lockdown, test for everyone, isolation for the sick....but each got full wages for the period paid by the government.

The latest numbers for roughly 5 million people living in one of the most densely populated urban areas.

Schools have been fully open since July, until now - zero... one more time for the certain subjects who claim to always know better - ZEEEEEEEEEERO - cases. Not among kids, not among teachers, not among other staff.

Anyone not understanding the basics - read the damn history of the 1918 pandemic. As far I can see from a distance (thankfully), many countries haven't done near enough what would be needed to really control the pandemic. But things have not changed, it is still an airborne disease with the same instant remedies that help to stop the spread.

Again for those special subjects - the longer you resist in doing the right things, the longer this will go on. Simples. In the meantime, you can keep whining and spend hours on the WWW trying to find the smallest bits of (mostly) false information to support your unrealistic, conspiracy-theory-laced views and arguments.

What countries have some of the worst caseloads? - those with poor leaderships - US, Brazil, UK, India; and who are the main drivers when there is a surge in cases? - to the largest part sycophantic supporters of those leaders.

@mack341 @dealer wins and all others: I tell you one thing mack&co, if I have the choice of losing a job and part of my livelihood for a period OR maybe 10-20 years of my life or that of friends/family due to long term effects OR my/their life entirely - I know exactly which I would choose. I can always get a job, make more money again etc. but I would have no chance in getting those 10-20 years back or my life itself. Period!

You seem to opt for the exact opposite. Good luck!

 

[Harry_BKK]

And if you think I chose those days because they show few or no cases. This is last week. Each day has two posts, once when they announce the number and once when they explain the cases in full detail. Absolute transparency as it should be!

 

[sufferinsilence]

I see the usual subjects are still out in force.

We had one of the harshest lockdowns at some point - 1 person/family allowed to leave home for essential purchases, effective tracing, everything except essential places closed, mask and social distancing mandate, high fines for not complying (up to 6 months jail for repeat offenders), sign in and out when entering supermarket/mall/public places, an army of specialists doing contact tracing, isolation mandates for suspected cases and close contacts (surveyed 24/7 via phone app), masks distributed to every household (FOC), etc.

And before you start, yes, they missed the worker dormitories. It took them 3 months to get control and they did it in the harshest way possible. Complete lockdown, test for everyone, isolation for the sick....but each got full wages for the period paid by the government.

The numbers for roughly 5 million people living in one of the most densely populated urban areas.

View attachment 143457

Schools have been fully open since July, until now - zero... one more time for the certain subjects who claim to always know better - ZEEEEEEEEEERO - cases. Not among kids, not among teachers, not among other staff.

Anyone not understanding the basics - read the damn history of the 1918 pandemic. As far I can see from a distance (thankfully), many countries have done next to nothing as to what would be needed to really control the pandemic. But things have not changed, it is still an airborne disease with the same instant remedies that help to stop the spread.

View attachment 143459

Again for those special subjects - the longer you resist in doing the right things, the longer this will go on. Simples. In the meantime, you can keep whining and spend hours on the WWW trying to find the smallest bits of (mostly) false information to support your unrealistic, conspiracy-theory-laced views and arguments.

What countries have some of the worst caseloads? - those with poor leaderships - US, Brazil, UK, India; and who are the main drivers when there is a surge in cases? - to the largest part sycophantic supporters of those leaders.

@mack341 @dealer wins and all others: I tell you one thing mack, if I have the choice of losing a job and part of my livelihood for a period or maybe 10-20 years of my life or that of friends/family due to long term effects or my/their life entirely - I know exactly which I would choose. I can always get a job, make more money again etc. but I would have no chance in getting those 10-20 years back or my life itself. Period!

You seem to opt for the exact opposite. Good luck!

I think this should be the final post of this topic

Belgium has the worst numbers in Europe, I'm truly ashamed of how my fellow Belgians are acting both IRL and on social media. There's a shitload of 0 IQ people complaining about how they can't go out to have a beer, ofcourse being egged on by anonymous accounts. Meanwhile we're big news again all over the world because our health minister has said we're facing a tsunami in our hospitals

 

[slotplayer]

Singapore did a good job no doubt but such measures would not work in US or any largely populated country.

Singapore is approximately 719 sq km, while United States is approximately 9,833,517 sq km, making United States 1,367,185% larger than Singapore. Meanwhile, the population of Singapore is ~6.2 million people (326.4 million more people live in United States).

 

[Harry_BKK]

Singapore did a good job no doubt but such measures would not work in US or any largely populated country.

Singapore is approximately 719 sq km, while United States is approximately 9,833,517 sq km, making United States 1,367,185% larger than Singapore. Meanwhile, the population of Singapore is ~6.2 million people (326.4 million more people live in United States).

Any other weak excuses? .... no "but Obama, Hillary etc"?

As I said 1, read the history of the 1918 pandemic, especially details about the third wave.

As I said 2, you chose! Good luck!

 

[bamberfishcake]

The UK government delayed lockdown for the economy and money.

This led to a strain on the nhs and many lives lost. The only businesses looked after were the pharmas and companies in bed with the politicians etc etc as they were given contracts outside of their industries.

They then lifted the lockdown and allowed children and parents to return to work and school, unmasked and uncertain. This is about to lead to a another strain on the nhs. Many more lives will be lost and i believe this is more calculation than error as we are led to believe.

Dont be fooled into thinking these people care about hundreds of thousands of lives being lost because it wont be them it will be the common man and the idiot who doesnt wash his hands or wear a mask. If you dont and you die they can say its down to your stupidity.

Maybe im wrong but why put your life and your neighbours life in the hands of people out of touch with you who have proved inept at organising a shipment of ppe or testing the testing before spending billions?

 

[shadow123]

Really dont know what some peoples beef is with wearing masks, its no hardship unless
you have a medical condition which would make one a problem.
If you accept that covid is real which anyone with half a brain cell should and masks are proven to vastly reduce transmission what on earth is the problem with wearing one.
Some people just dont like being told what to do even when its in their own interests.
If people had just acted more responsibly and the goverment got their act together,
maybe i could have said goodbye to my wife before she died in hospital having been there 2 weeks with no visiting allowed, that fucking hurts more you could imagine.
Please dont be selfish, if you are young and catch it you might get away it but think
of others and the wider picture.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Some accurate information about Sweden from Anders Tegnell, who is their Chief Epidemiologist.

On balance, I'll consider him to be the authoritative source of what they've done, and what they're doing.

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Both supporters and detractors have described Sweden’s strategy as one of “herd immunity”: allowing the majority of the population to contract Covid-19 in the hope of building resistance to it. But Tegnell insists that this is not the case. “That’s incorrect – in common with other countries we’re trying to slow down the spread as much as possible... To imply that we let the disease run free without any measures to try to stop it is not true.”

He warned that a genuine herd immunity strategy could be disastrous: “If you have Covid-19 spreading, so that 50-60 per cent of your society eventually have the disease, it can rapidly overwhelm your health service and possibly cause a number of deaths indefinitely and leave people with long-term consequences. If you can avoid that I would say that you definitely should.”

----------------

Sweden’s emphasis on child wellbeing – with sustained investment in early education – meant closing schools was never viewed as a viable option. Its impressive levels of social trust meant citizens were expected to behave responsibly without state coercion.

I asked Tegnell whether the flouting of lockdown rules by individuals such as the adviser, Dominic Cummings, and SNP MP Margaret Ferrier had undermined the UK’s approach. “I think it’s very important to have trust, and I think it’s been shown over time, with Ebola in west Africa, with many big outbreaks in the world, you need to have public trust to stop the disease. It’s important that the public understand what you are trying to achieve and work with you. I think that’s what we’ve managed to achieve in Sweden so far.”

Tegnell agreed that Sweden’s generous welfare system had also aided the country as individuals received the financial support necessary to self-isolate. “The Swedish social security system was further improved during this crisis.” Workers on sick pay receive 80 per cent of their previous salary, compared to a flat rate of just £95.85 per week in Britain.

-----------------

In Britain, Conservative MPs and right-wing commentators have urged Johnson to emulate Sweden’s approach. But Tegnell is, for now, unwilling to say what the UK should have done differently. “I don’t think we are in a position to talk about mistakes anywhere. Maybe in a year or two we can sit down together, in a calm and peaceful situation, and try to figure out what worked well and what did not work well. But it is definitely too early to have reviews like that.”

 

[mack341]

I see the usual subjects are still out in force.

@mack341 @dealer wins and all others: I tell you one thing mack&co, if I have the choice of losing a job and part of my livelihood for a period OR maybe 10-20 years of my life or that of friends/family due to long term effects OR my/their life entirely - I know exactly which I would choose. I can always get a job, make more money again etc. but I would have no chance in getting those 10-20 years back or my life itself. Period!

You seem to opt for the exact opposite. Good luck!

If you're going to try and paint me and others as without conscience or morality about this, the least trouble you could have gone to is sourced some figures [for the current situation we are in now - uk & europe] and also explained away the pcr test issue of false negatives while you are at it?

All my up-to-date points have been made in the last three pages or so, also I follow the uk rules, masks etc...

I am particularly angry about the UK's nhs health system going into basic hibernation for anything not covid related because the lockdown in the uk has been applied to the provision of health services which most of the public rely on, this may never have been the case in singapore. No one can justify covid having greater priority than carring out for example cancer tests and treatment [on a normal basis] ditto other health issues that impact seriously on people's quality of life - yet all pushed aside by the uk govt.

Again for those special subjects - the longer you resist in doing the right things, the longer this will go on. Simples. In the meantime, you can keep whining and spend hours on the WWW trying to find the smallest bits of (mostly) false information to support your unrealistic, conspiracy-theory-laced views and arguments.

Many esteemed scientists and thousands of doctors back the return to a more normal life with added protection for the vulnerable, the great barrington declaration, I guess they have also been searching the www for mostly false information and conspiracy theory laced views, otherwise they would not have written this declaration - that can only be the reason?

 

[ChopleyIOM]

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Let's have a look what Fauci thinks of 'The Great Barrington Declaration':

Fauci called the declaration "ridiculous", "total nonsense" and "very dangerous", saying that it would lead to a large number of avoidable deaths.

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Fauci said that 30 percent of the population had underlying health conditions that made them vulnerable to the virus and that "older adults, even those who are otherwise healthy, are far more likely than young adults to become seriously ill if they get COVID-19."

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He added, "This idea that we have the power to protect the vulnerable is total nonsense because history has shown that that's not the case. And if you talk to anybody who has any experience in epidemiology and infectious diseases, they will tell you that that is risky, and you'll wind up with many more infections of vulnerable people, which will lead to hospitalizations and deaths. So I think that we just got to look that square in the eye and say it's nonsense."

------------

Or there's this one:

The

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, representing over 12,000 doctors and scientists, released a statement calling the Great Barrington Declaration's proposals "inappropriate, irresponsible and ill-informed".

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14 other American public-health groups, among them the

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and the

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, published an open letter in which they warned that following the recommendations of the Great Barrington Declaration would "haphazardly and unnecessarily sacrifice lives”, adding that "the declaration is not a strategy, it is a political statement. It ignores sound public health expertise. It preys on a frustrated populace. Instead of selling false hope that will predictably backfire, we must focus on how to manage this pandemic in a safe, responsible, and equitable way."

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----------------

And so on:

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, the

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of the

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, warned against the idea of letting the virus spread in order to achieve herd immunity at an October 12 press briefing, calling the notion "unethical". He said: "Herd immunity is a concept used for vaccination, in which a population can be protected from a certain virus if a threshold of vaccination is reached … Herd immunity is achieved by protecting people from a virus, not by exposing them to it."

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Tedros said that trying to achieve herd immunity by letting the virus spread unchecked would be "scientifically and ethically problematic", especially given that the long-term effects of the disease are still not fully understood.

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He said that though "there has been some discussion recently about the concept of reaching so-called 'herd immunity' by letting the virus spread", "never in the history of public health has herd immunity been used as a strategy for responding to an

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, let alone a pandemic."

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[ChopleyIOM]

Or we could just go off a single sheet of A4 when it comes to how to deal with a new disease that we're still understanding the dangers and long-term effects of I suppose.

Sheesh, the rules for your average new slot release run to longer than The Great Barrington Declaration.

I guess all this pandemic and epidemiology stuff is pretty simple after all.

 

[Harry_BKK]

If you're going to try and paint me and others as without conscience or morality about this, the least trouble you could have gone to is sourced some figures [for the current situation we are in now - uk & europe] and also explained away the pcr test issue of false negatives while you are at it?

All my up-to-date points have been made in the last three pages or so, also I follow the uk rules, masks etc...

I am particularly angry about the UK's nhs health system going into basic hibernation for anything not covid related because the lockdown in the uk has been applied to the provision of health services which most of the public rely on, this may never have been the case in singapore. No one can justify covid having greater priority than carring out for example cancer tests and treatment [on a normal basis] ditto other health issues that impact seriously on people's quality of life - yet all pushed aside by the uk govt.



Many esteemed scientists and thousands of doctors back the return to a more normal life with added protection for the vulnerable, the great barrington declaration, I guess they have also been searching the www for mostly false information and conspiracy theory laced views, otherwise they would not have written this declaration - that can only be the reason?

So you are banking on a 1-page declaration which makes a few soundbites with no details on how that could be done in a feasible way? Mack, that is indeed "mostly false information and conspiracy theory laced views"

One more time, do yourself a favour and read in detail the history of the 1918 pandemic. Especially the period from the second wave to the third and the end.

TBH, we are sitting here alternating between horror/laughing at Western countries. You have no discipline, nada, zilch. We hunkered down properly for two months and are in much better shape. That should tell you something. Just look at most Asian countries, Australia, New Zealand..... we are all people, humans, not something special. Why can we do it and you simply can't?

PS. No test, medicine, vaccine etc etc is 100%, none, not a single one. So keep batting away at those PCR tests, that will get you exactly.....nowhere!

 

[mack341]

Or we could just go off a single sheet of A4 when it comes to how to deal with a new disease that we're still understanding the dangers and long-term effects of I suppose.

Sheesh, the rules for your average new slot release run to longer than The Great Barrington Declaration.

I guess all this pandemic and epidemiology stuff is pretty simple after all.

The key word is declaration [as of intent], it was never going to be a textbook or go into the micromanagement details; whereas the uk govt and sage have a duty to do an analysis of alternative approaches and the harms of the uk lockdown they have put in place, they have not. We are not in march 2020 now.

Edit: Also the media coverage, and govt use of television to ramp up and instill fear, creating confusion too, are part of the problem. The public have been battered by it, and even now as the fatality and hospital figures no longer look like the march/april outbreak, the govt approach doesn't really change.

 

[mack341]

So you are banking on a 1-page declaration which makes a few soundbites with no details on how that could be done in a feasible way? Mack, that is indeed "mostly false information and conspiracy theory laced views"

One more time, do yourself a favour and read in detail the history of the 1918 pandemic. Especially the period from the second wave to the third and the end.

TBH, we are sitting here alternating between horror/laughing at Western countries. You have no discipline, nada, zilch. We hunkered down properly for two months and are in much better shape. That should tell you something. Just look at most Asian countries, Australia, New Zealand..... we are all people, humans, not something special. Why can we do it and you simply can't?

PS. No test, medicine, vaccine etc etc is 100%, none, not a single one. So keep batting away at those PCR tests, that will get you exactly.....nowhere!

I was arguing at the time [when this thread began] for the immediate ceasing of all new air travel to the uk, when we still had very few cases, and quarantining/testing any arrivals still in the system, but this govt ignored that idea. As an island that's what we needed to do, and could do to our favour, and then perhaps we could be like the IOM now, with their infection rates, but the opportunity was lost.

I don't see this as the same as 1918, many factors make it different. And that discussion could run to several pages as well.

 

[bamberfishcake]

No test, medicine, vaccine etc etc is 100%, none, not a single one

I am inclined to disagree with this comment Harry. I have a wet finger test that can tell wind direction 100% guaranteed every time.

 

[Harry_BKK]

I was arguing at the time [when this thread began] for the immediate ceasing of all new air travel to the uk, when we still had very few cases, and quarantining/testing any arrivals still in the system, but this govt ignored that idea. As an island that's what we needed to do, and could do to our favour, and then perhaps we could be like the IOM now, with their infection rates, but the opportunity was lost.

I don't see this as the same as 1918, many factors make it different. And that discussion could run to several pages as well.

I am not saying that the virus is exactly the same mack.

What is the same though is the behaviour of the people. We have not learned a single iota as it seems.

They had three waves in total, we are now at the start of the second.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I was arguing at the time [when this thread began] for the immediate ceasing of all new air travel to the uk, when we still had very few cases, and quarantining/testing any arrivals still in the system, but this govt ignored that idea. As an island that's what we needed to do, and could do to our favour, and then perhaps we could be like the IOM now, with their infection rates, but the opportunity was lost.

On that we agree mack, I recall in the early days of the pandemic I was messaging my brother on WhatsApp (he lives in Bolton) and asking in astonishment what the bloody hell was going on with tens of thousands people flying into airports all over the UK every single day and just dispersing out into the general population, whilst a global pandemic was already underway.

The IOM is a small island, but Great Britain is also an island state, the same principles could have been applied as we did here. We closed our borders and we closed them hard, to the extent that some island residents who missed the deadline weren't allowed to return until we'd set up a quarantine facility for them.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Just to note, our local community infection rate is officially zero and has been since June when we declared the island Covid-Free. We have a couple of cases on-island of people who returned and self-isolated, and tested positive during isolation. We have zero 'community' cases.

In honesty though, we are concerned that we'll have an active case or cases at some point, but we have fantastic track and trace, which is run directly by our government, rather than farmed out at massive cost to ineffective contractors.

 

[sufferinsilence]

The key word is declaration [as of intent], it was never going to be a textbook or go into the micromanagement details; whereas the uk govt and sage have a duty to do an analysis of alternative approaches and the harms of the uk lockdown they have put in place, they have not. We are not in march 2020 now.

Edit: Also the media coverage, and govt use of television to ramp up and instill fear, creating confusion too, are part of the problem. The public have been battered by it, and even now as the fatality and hospital figures no longer look like the march/april outbreak, the govt approach doesn't really change.

I have to agree with this, the media should be more informative and to the point and cease to publish articles that are only made to either egg the public on (read: conspiracy theories) or are clickbait (read: the extreme stories).

Different pov's between scientists are fine but they shouldn't be aired on the news or talkshows, the scientists should be able to discuss this amongst themselves. Appoint a spokesman and let him bring all the talking points of the day so there is no room for speculation.

I know we live in a world where we want as much information as possible and preferrably yesterday but when that means you get so much opposite facts it just gets too much. There's a need for clarity and perspective.

And on top of that you have the online (anonymous/qanon) instigators who thrive on spreading misinformation. It's not normal that lead scientists like Dr. Fauci AND his family get death threats and have to get round the clock security... One of our top virologists has gotten hundreds of death threats too on Twitter and via e-mail... That just blows my mind.

 

[slotplayer]

Sorry but when things scale up it becomes overwhelming and a logistical nightmare.

 

[dealer wins]

Track and trace wont work under the threat of criminal charges and £10000 fines. Who in their right mind would give their correct details and risk that lol

Same with masks and the draconian rules, all come with the threat of fines and/or arrests, which piss off a fair few people and make them want to disobey!

 

[vorcirion]

Track and trace wont work under the threat of criminal charges and £10000 fines. Who in their right mind would give their correct details and risk that lol

Same with masks and the draconian rules, all come with the threat of fines and/or arrests, which piss off a fair few people and make them want to disobey!

And what would make those people wear masks? They behave like babies. Asking them nicely won't work 'cause they already don't care about anyone else but themselves. Fines or even jail time seem to be necessary since those people don't listen otherwise.

 

[colinsunderland]

Track and trace wont work under the threat of criminal charges and £10000 fines. Who in their right mind would give their correct details and risk that lol

Same with masks and the draconian rules, all come with the threat of fines and/or arrests, which piss off a fair few people and make them want to disobey!

And it wasn't working before threats of massive fines, so whats the solution?

Again the masks etc didn't work without the threats. If a fairly large amount of public refuse to wear a mask, and there is no penalty for not doing so, then why would people comply?

Track and Trace is ab absolutely shambles anyway, I really hope the public remember this when election time pops round.

 

[dealer wins]

The solution is to have our now covid secure businesses open, to stop criminalising people, and to let people get on with their lives, medical treatment and mental sanity.

The day a plague comes to our shores that requires a lockdown, we wont need to be told to do so.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Track and Trace is ab absolutely shambles anyway, I really hope the public remember this when election time pops round.

I keep trying to make this point, and have done multiple times in this thread. The real scandal here, and indeed the root cause of most of the problems were seeing now, is the £12bn that's been spunked on a test and trace system that doesn't work.

Massive contracts handed out to Tory crony companies, huge amounts of public money being trousered, and an escalating public health crisis because the private companies involved have done a disastrously shit job.

But no, let's get annoyed about masks and entirely fictional conspiracy theories about government coercion.

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If you are not incandescent with rage, you haven’t grasped the scale of what has been done to us. The new surge in the coronavirus, and the restrictions and local lockdowns it has triggered, are caused in large part by the catastrophic failure of the test-and-trace system. Its £12bn budget has been blown, as those in charge of it have failed to drive the infection rate below the critical threshold.

Their failure was baked in, caused by the government’s ideological commitment to the private sector. This commitment had three impacts: money that could have saved lives has been diverted into corporate profits; inexperienced consultants and executives have been appointed over the heads of qualified public servants; instead of responsive local systems, the government has created a centralised monster.

This centralisation is perhaps the hardest aspect to understand. All experience here and abroad shows that local test and trace works better. While, according to the latest government figures, the centralised system currently reaches just 62.6% of contacts, local authorities are reaching 97%. This is despite the fact that they have been denied access to government data, and were given just £300m, in contrast with the £12bn for national test and trace. Centralisation may be a catastrophe, but it does enable huge contracts for multinational corporations.

 

[shadow123]

A mate of my stepson is in a coma due to covid, big strong man, well liked.Another friend of mine works
in a chippy , found out her bosses both had covid, they think its due to having a uni student staying with
them,shes had to have a test pronto,if she is positive 15 mourners at wifes funeral will have to be tested.
Dont know if anyones seen the heat maps the goverment produce showing infections by age,hard to understand at first but really shows how many of the infections are happenning to young people,
Opening Nottm Uni again was a bad mistake,place is a hotbed of covid,Many students have gone home
to study online,All the talk about how students were missing out on the social development aspect of Uni
life looks a bit lame now,as many are having to self isolate, I dont blame them,they are young and not really aware of the risks of the situation.
Think we are in for a long hard winter, no idea how we will eradicate this shit, the tier system is a total
farce, they keep throwing fortunes into track and trace which has been full of bugs since it started and seems to be performing worse every day.

 

[funnymunny]

*SNIP*
... we have fantastic track and trace, which is run directly by our government, rather than farmed out at massive cost to ineffective contractors.

Sorry, but I have to contradict you on this... As an Island resident who took his daughter back to Uni in Sept. After I returned, I started self-isolation & did the paid for test after 7-days (given the 'all clear'), I can say my experience wasn't of anything "fantastic". Admittedly yes, I did have a phone call from them after 14-days confirming I was now able to stop self-isolating. I told them I'd had a call from the testing team on day 8 (1-day after my test) to confirm my test was negative & as a result, I was already back at work / in the community / etc. The caller then verbally shrugged their shoulders, told me information often wasn't updated, shared or followed-up on between teams. If this is the case for negative results, it doesn't bode well for sharing info on positive ones(?!).

Yes the system is supervised by the Government, but many of the people staffing the system aren't directly employed by them. (E.g. 2 people I know working on it are ones that have been furloughed from airlines. After a few hours training, they are given a phone & computer and told to get on with it).

Definitely not saying what they've done here hasn't been good and / or effective, but (from my first hand experience) "fantastic" is definitely not a word I would use.

(Edit to add, the day I was waiting for my test results, the Government were still reporting that they had 0 people waiting for results. However there were at least 10 other cars queueing in front of and behind me when I was tested. I also had to call them to get my 'all clear' (they said they'd call me within 24hrs - I called after 30). A pessimist may say they were trying to keep even people with negative results isolating for longer & conspiracists may even say that's because they don't have 100% confidence in the tests?)).