Corona virus - Covid 19 discussion

[Borgie]

Sorry I am missing something .

Thanks to the rules laid down and the strict enforcement of these the IOM is basically a covid free island where people can live their lives with little or no worry or fear . No face masks .No long term closure of businesses. No curfews . I assume no limits to attendance at weddings or funerals. I would say that waiting a little longer than was advertised for a test result or concern that the person making a phone call on track and trace isn't a "proper"civil servant really are just non issues.

As nobody is dying over there sounds like the tests are doing their job just fine . So why not have 100 percent confidence in them

I'm sorry but this just shows people will always have a moan and gripe about the government or anything really as its just what people like to do.

I personally feel "fantastic job"are exactly the words to describe things over there.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Well in fairness to funnymunny I haven't had personal experience of the test and trace system here as I haven't travelled off-island since the start of the pandemic, whereas he clearly has, so his experiences are certainly valid and should be taken note of. (I have several friends who have travelled though, and their experiences of the system were positive.)

The facts of the case remain the same though, the island declared Covid-Free status in June, and we haven't had a single case in the community since then. (We have had a handful of cases where people have returned to the island and tested positive during self-isolation, i.e. the virus came with them to the island.)

That said, it sounds like a couple of aspects of the process could have been a bit tighter in funnymunny's case, so hopefully he has taken the time to pass on the comments above to the relevant people in government here, so that his experience and concerns can be noted and acted on if appropriate.

With the benefit of hindsight perhaps 'fantastic' was the wrong word for me to choose, the phrase 'entirely effective' may perhaps have been more appropriate.

 

[funnymunny]

Sorry I am missing something .
*SNIP*
I'm sorry but this just shows people will always have a moan and gripe about the government or anything really as its just what people like to do.
*SNIP*

I certainly didn't want to come across as moaning and griping, but if stating facts is interpreted as that, then I guess I'm guilty as charged

*SNIP*
The facts of the case remain the same though, the island declared Covid-Free status in June, and we haven't had a single case in the community since then. (We have had a handful of cases where people have returned to the island and tested positive during self-isolation, i.e. the virus came with them to the island.)

Totally agree & echo what you're stating. (Assuming your facts aren't going to be interpreted as moaning and griping! )

That said, it sounds like a couple of aspects of the process could have been a bit tighter in funnymunny's case, so hopefully he has taken the time to pass on the comments above to the relevant people in government here, so that his experience and concerns can be noted and acted on if appropriate.

*SNIP*

Absolutely (inc direct discussions with Ashy).

 

[slotplayer]

I told my sister and brother-in-law 2 months ago that Biden would want some sort of national lock down. No way this country will go for that. He's delusional.

 

[Playford7]

the wuhan wheezer, about as deadly as sox..

Joking apart we really need to get a grip of this hysterical nonsense, can’t speak for other nations but in the U.K. its plain insanity.

the science doesn’t back any of this BS up, people continue to die because of missed operations, elderly and alone, depression, suicide..

Jobs lost, kids thinking this utter shite is normal..

being told what we can and can’t buy (Wales)

wear your muzzles..

Sorry but piss right off I’m done with this, the survival rate is insane and we are losing lives jobs and our liberties because of this...

Digital Xmas in scotland... are you winding me the F... up?..

Wake up guys, this is the biggest farce since @pinnit2014 said I had a cheese obsession!..

Rant over, Covid cooking to follow shortly.

as you where troops.

 

[pinnit2014]

the wuhan wheezer, about as deadly as sox..

Joking apart we really need to get a grip of this hysterical nonsense, can’t speak for other nations but in the U.K. its plain insanity.

the science doesn’t back any of this BS up, people continue to die because of missed operations, elderly and alone, depression, suicide..

Jobs lost, kids thinking this utter shite is normal..

being told what we can and can’t buy (Wales)

wear your muzzles..

Sorry but piss right off I’m done with this, the survival rate is insane and we are losing lives jobs and our liberties because of this...

Digital Xmas in scotland... are you winding me the F... up?..

Wake up guys, this is the biggest farce since @pinnit2014 said I had a cheese obsession!..

Rant over, Covid cooking to follow shortly.

as you where troops.

How else do you explain the PM's to send you pics of me dressed as a cheese puff?

It brings out the jaundice in my eyes.

 

[Playford7]

this is exactly right, good old Yorkshire lass spitting facts.

 

[Kroffe]

 

[Playford7]

Evening and best wishes, regards and all that comes with it you beautiful people!..

after a request I’ve done a bit of corona cooking!..

It’s basic but bloody tasty I tell thee!

4 cheese pizza with a stuffed cheese crust @pinnit2014 you will love this dude!..

Some buffalo chicken pizza, and some dirty fries with 3 cheeses on!.. (yes mind blown)

got some dipping implements too, a garlic and herb, a BBQ and a good old hot and super hot spicy dip!.

drink is my blackcurrent juice with ice!..

Best regards and massive smiles
Ben and sox

 

[dealer wins]

this is exactly right, good old Yorkshire lass spitting facts.

What the vast majority of people, old, young and middle aged think.

If you still think the restrictions are about covid, you are wrong!

Covid kills, but the restrictions have killed and will kill many more, and leave millions in poverty by next year!!

Wake up

 

[slotplayer]

Aren't they already protesting in London, Naples, Poland and AU? The lockdown just started didn't it?

 

[Harry_BKK]

I see many are still oblivious to the facts and are like little toddlers as in "I want my beer in the pub!!!"

Below is the graph of the 1918-19 pandemic. The red arrow is where we are right now (my estimate). The second wave in 1918 happened a few weeks after countries lifted most of their restrictions, thinking it is all over. The curve shot up very similar to what it is doing right now.

Does any of you "non-believers" think that COVID is that different from the 1918 influenza? The only difference right now is that we have better hospital equipment and more advanced therapeutics. What has not changed at all is a good section of the population who simply does not care, a few in this thread included. But we will pay the price together in all areas, be it personal, economy etc. but hey "I want my beer in the pub!"

I say it again, we watch in horror/laughing from a distance (thankfully) at the chaos you have. FYI, we still have zero community cases on most days and only a handful imported who never make into the community in the first place as everyone has to quarantine for 2 weeks on arrival. The economy has started to open up, we are talking about establishing "green channels" with some countries who also took it seriously. As a result, the economy is set to shrink less and to rebound faster than expected. I'll give you three guesses to find out how we got to this point?

"Carry on!" as the famous British comedy says. We will keep watching your chaos from a safe distance. Let's just hope that the curve won't spike as it did in 1918 and that we will be able to avoid the third one.

 

[sufferinsilence]

I see many are still oblivious to the facts and are like little toddlers as in "I want my beer in the pub!!!"

Below is the graph of the 1918-19 pandemic. The red arrow is where we are right now (my estimate). The second wave in 1918 happened a few weeks after countries lifted most of their restrictions, thinking it is all over. The curve shot up very similar to what it is doing right now.

Does any of you "non-believers" think that COVID is that different from the 1918 influenza? The only difference right now is that we have better hospital equipment and more advanced therapeutics. What has not changed at all is a good section of the population who simply does not care, a few in this thread included. But we will pay the price together in all areas, be it personal, economy etc. but hey "I want my beer in the pub!"

I say it again, we watch in horror/laughing from a distance (thankfully) at the chaos you have. FYI, we still have zero community cases on most days and only a handful imported who never make into the community in the first place as everyone has to quarantine for 2 weeks on arrival. The economy has started to open up, we are talking about establishing "green channels" with some countries who also took it seriously. As a result, the economy is set to shrink less and to rebound faster than expected. I'll give you three guesses to find out how we got to this point?

"Carry on!" as the famous British comedy says. We will keep watching your chaos from a safe distance. Let's just hope that the curve won't spike as it did in 1918 and that we will be able to avoid the third one.


View attachment 143693

Not only in Britain... It's up to people's behaviour how long this is going to take and sadly those that follow rules and guidelines as much as possible have to suffer for those that "don't believe in it". Sure, it's sad that businesses fail and people lose jobs but the longer we stay stuck in this the longer we'll have measures going and the longer the economy will suffer.

Do the "non-believers" really think it's that bad already mentally? You want some real talk? Here we go: the longer this goes on the more people will commit suicide because they don't see an end to it. The collateral damage we talk about? You're causing it because you think wearing a mask is useless and going to the pub is a godgiven right, not the people that are pro-lockdowns and strict measures.

This isn't the government trying to control you. In 1918 that's what people thought too btw.

 

[Harry_BKK]

Not only in Britain... It's up to people's behaviour how long this is going to take and sadly those that follow rules and guidelines as much as possible have to suffer for those that "don't believe in it". Sure, it's sad that businesses fail and people lose jobs but the longer we stay stuck in this the longer we'll have measures going and the longer the economy will suffer.

Do the "non-believers" really think it's that bad already mentally? You want some real talk? Here we go: the longer this goes on the more people will commit suicide because they don't see an end to it. The collateral damage we talk about? You're causing it because you think wearing a mask is useless and going to the pub is a godgiven right, not the people that are pro-lockdowns and strict measures.

This isn't the government trying to control you. In 1918 that's what people thought too btw.

Yep, it is GB and beyond. That is why I highlighted the footnote as it says it was similar globally.

As for your last sentence, that is absolutely true. I've read tons of old newspaper pages from those two years I found in online archives. Surprisingly or maybe better said, unsurprisingly, the tone, language and attidute have not changed one iota, sadly.

That is one reason I said in this thread repeatedly: "read the damn history" only to be told by some that they are not interested. Too bad, as it would show exactly what went wrong and what things got the situation under control.

The vaccine, if ever there will be one, is still months and months away. So this will continue - lockdown, numbers go down, lift restrictions, people get careless, numbers go up, lockdown etc etc.

 

[slotplayer]

I usually try and not criticize unless it pertains to my part of the world or the MSM but Pubs are super spreaders.

Pubs and Clubs have been closed here in my state since the beginning. They won't be opening until phase 4, which is when/if a vaccine is available. I'm not much of a drinker so personally I could care less when they open but there are restaurants that serve alcohol with a meal. Not to mention liquor stores are open, so its not like the drinkers are going without. No one is complaining that I know of, not even on the news.

 

[Playford7]

Yep, it is GB and beyond. That is why I highlighted the footnote as it says it was similar globally.

As for your last sentence, that is absolutely true. I've read tons of old newspaper pages from those two years I found in online archives. Surprisingly or maybe better said, unsurprisingly, the tone, language and attidute have not changed one iota, sadly.

That is one reason I said in this thread repeatedly: "read the damn history" only to be told by some that they are not interested. Too bad, as it would show exactly what went wrong and what things got the situation under control.

The vaccine, if ever there will be one, is still months and months away. So this will continue - lockdown, numbers go down, lift restrictions, people get careless, numbers go up, lockdown etc etc.

What do you make of the barrington declaration?..

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Yep, it is GB and beyond. That is why I highlighted the footnote as it says it was similar globally.

As for your last sentence, that is absolutely true. I've read tons of old newspaper pages from those two years I found in online archives. Surprisingly or maybe better said, unsurprisingly, the tone, language and attidute have not changed one iota, sadly.

That is one reason I said in this thread repeatedly: "read the damn history" only to be told by some that they are not interested. Too bad, as it would show exactly what went wrong and what things got the situation under control.

The vaccine, if ever there will be one, is still months and months away. So this will continue - lockdown, numbers go down, lift restrictions, people get careless, numbers go up, lockdown etc etc.

As the wise old saying goes, 'Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it'.

Personally, I'd like to see the Venn Diagram that shows how voting for Brexit and being a 'Covid-Rebel' intersect....

 

[ChopleyIOM]

What do you make of the barrington declaration?..

Old URL

 

[cncas2123]

What do you make of the barrington declaration?..

This is the one that was signed by such famed medics as Harold Shipman, Frankenstein and Micky Mouse????
Thought it was already pretty much disproven?

 

[ChopleyIOM]

This is the one that was signed by such famed medics as Harold Shipman, Frankenstein and Micky Mouse????
Thought it was already pretty much disproven?

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But among the signatures, which are publicly available on the website, are dozens of fake names. These include ‘Professor Ita Rôle Italy Pudding and dessert expert’, ‘Dr Brian Blessed Doctor in Winged Flight, Z-Cars and Booming Laughter’, ‘Dr Johnny Fartpants’ and ‘Professor Notaf Uckingclue’, among others.

 

[Playford7]

This is the one that was signed by such famed medics as Harold Shipman, Frankenstein and Micky Mouse????
Thought it was already pretty much disproven?

Pretty much yes, that said I agree with the premise of what’s written in it.

I’m no virus denier but in the U.K. the handling has been nothing short of comical and massive overkill (excuse the pun)

protect the vulnerable, people with pre existing conditions and the elderly but let the rest of us carry on as normal as the danger of this virus is minute.

I’ve been in hospital x2 on the past month and it’s literally empty, maybe the Covid ward was jam packed to the rafters I don’t know, but what I saw was a ghost town.

people can’t have ops, physio and basic health care Not to mention cancer treatment due to this mass over reaction.

the measures in Wales are just frankly laughable like lol out loud funny, utter nonsense.

circuit breakers, fire breaks Haha piss off!.. it’s a virus that over 99% of people won’t even be affected by.

open everything up, get back to normal just protect yourself if your old or vulnerable.

 

[Harry_BKK]

What do you make of the barrington declaration?..

In addition to @ChopleyIOM 's post.

Coronavirus

 

[Kroffe]

One more time, do yourself a favour and read in detail the history of the 1918 pandemic. Especially the period from the second wave to the third and the end.

You are always trying to make me read things.
Is there no 1918 pandemic movie i can watch?
And not a documentary, those are only good if theres nature&animals in them.

Bonus points if Halley Berry is starring in the movie.

 

[mack341]

Good article from a practicing doctor in stockholm:

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quotes:

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, in terms of number of deaths per 100,000 population. Ever. And I don’t mean the least deadly September, I mean the least deadly month. Ever. To me, this is pretty clear evidence of two things. First, that covid is not a very deadly disease. And second, that Sweden has herd immunity.

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, the response from proponents of further lockdown was that the reason September was such an un-deadly month, was because everyone has already died earlier in the pandemic. To me, that seems like a pretty self-defeating argument. Why?
Because 6,000 people have died of covid in Sweden, a country with a population of 10,000,000 people. 6,000 people is 0,06% of the population. If it is enough for that tiny a fraction of a population to die of a pandemic for the pandemic to peter out so completely that a country can have its least deadly month ever, then the pandemic was never that deadly to begin with.

The average person who died in the 1918 pandemic was in their late 20’s. So each death in the 1918 pandemic actually meant around 50 years more of life lost per person than each death in the covid pandemic. Multiply that by the fact that it had a 19 times higher death rate, and the 1918 flu was in fact 950 times more deadly than covid, in terms its capacity to shorten people’s lives.

Ok, I’ve discussed the fatality rate of the 1918 flu pandemic, and compared that to covid. But what about the fatality rate of the common cold viruses that are constantly circulating in society? How does covid compare to them?

Many people think that the common cold viruses are harmless. But in fact, among elderly people with underlying health conditions, they are frequently deadly.

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found that, among frail elderly people, rhinovirus is actually more deadly than regular influenza. In that study, the 30 day mortality for frail elderly people admitted to hospital due to a rhinovirus infection was 10% . For frail elderly people admitted to hospital due to influenza, 30 day mortality was 7% .

What is my point? If you are old and frail, and have underlying health conditions, then even that most harmless of all infections, the so called “common cold”, can be deadly. In fact, it often is. Covid-19 is not a unique disease, and does not appear to have a noticeably higher mortality rate than the so called “common cold”.

There is one final aspect to all this that needs to be discussed. And that is the effect of covid on overall mortality. If it turns out that covid has no effect on overall mortality, then that really brings in to question why we are locking down, since we’re not actually preventing any deaths. So, what is the effect of covid on overall mortality?

Let’s look at Sweden, since that is perhaps the country that has taken the most relaxed approach of any to preventing spread, and which should therefore also reasonably be expected to have had the highest impact on its overall death rate. From January to September 2020,

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. That is less than both 2017 and 2018. In fact, 2020 is so far the third least deadly year in Swedish history.

What does this mean? It means that covid, a supposedly deadly viral pandemic, has not killed enough Swedes to have any noticeable impact on overall mortality.

I am not saying that covid is nothing, or that it doesn’t exist. I am saying that it is a virus with a marginal effect on longevity. And yet, public policy in most countries has been driven by doomsday scenarios based on completely unrealistic numbers. To put it simply, we’ve acted like we’re dealing with a global ebola outbreak, when covid is much more like the common cold.

-------------

Obviously any person dying of this new disease is sad but in terms of epidemiology and the macro side of things, the numbers are calculated in a neutral, statistical way; if the lockdowns in the uk have had an effect then without them are people suggesting we would have had 80,000 dead?

It's looking to me when you compare sweden's numbers to the uk, the lockdown hasn't had the effect [of saving lives from covid] we'd expect, and in due course could take more lives from the collateral damage effect.

 

[Harry_BKK]

Pretty much yes, that said I agree with the premise of what’s written in it.

I’m no virus denier but in the U.K. the handling has been nothing short of comical and massive overkill (excuse the pun)

protect the vulnerable, people with pre existing conditions and the elderly but let the rest of us carry on as normal as the danger of this virus is minute.

I’ve been in hospital x2 on the past month and it’s literally empty, maybe the Covid ward was jam packed to the rafters I don’t know, but what I saw was a ghost town.

people can’t have ops, physio and basic health care Not to mention cancer treatment due to this mass over reaction.

the measures in Wales are just frankly laughable like lol out loud funny, utter nonsense.

circuit breakers, fire breaks Haha piss off!.. it’s a virus that over 99% of people won’t even be affected by.

open everything up, get back to normal just protect yourself if your old or vulnerable.

Three examples for your slightly flawed thinking ( I could list more):

1. Family of 5 or more lives together in one house. Two have some kind of pre-existing condition that put them at risk. Would you still be all for: "but let the rest of us carry on as normal "? Same goes for a work environment. 50 workers, 10 are at risk. What do you do? What would be your plan?

2. The last months have shown that the virus attacks not just the lungs but other organs too, leading to a rather sizeable percentage of so-called longhaulers. They will be in danger to have their lives cut short by 10, 20 or more years. We don't know as it is a new disease. What will be the human and financial cost for those cases? Now, let's say you get infected and become a longhauler, would you be OK to have 20 years cut off your life and insist "but let the rest of us carry on as normal "?

3. The main problem with pandemics is that it overwhelms the medical system. None would be capable to handle an influx past a certain threshold. What do you do then? Any plan?

On another note, don't they look like brothers or something? FYI, he faced similar backlash as Dr Fauci yet he was right about his warnings but people did not want to listen and preferred to "let the rest of us carry on as normal ".

 

[Playford7]

Three examples for your slightly flawed thinking ( I could list more):

1. Family of 5 or more lives together in one house. Two have some kind of pre-existing condition that put them at risk. Would you still be all for: "but let the rest of us carry on as normal "? Same goes for a work environment. 50 workers, 10 are at risk. What do you do? What would be your plan?

2. The last months have shown that the virus attacks not just the lungs but other organs too, leading to a rather sizeable percentage of so-called longhaulers. They will be in danger to have their lives cut short by 10, 20 or more years. We don't know as it is a new disease. What will be the human and financial cost for those cases? Now, let's say you get infected and become a longhauler, would you be OK to have 20 years cut off your life and insist "but let the rest of us carry on as normal "?

3. The main problem with pandemics is that it overwhelms the medical system. None would be capable to handle an influx past a certain threshold. What do you do then? Any plan?

On another note, don't they look like brothers or something? FYI, he faced similar backlash as Dr Fauci yet he was right about his warnings but people did not want to listen and preferred to "let the rest of us carry on as normal ".

View attachment 143702

Haha they do look uncannily similar, just watched a interview on Andrew marr with him about 5 minutes back oddly enough.

and you can list a million scenarios but the reality is harry it’s just really not that deadly to the majority, and we as a majority need to go out and work, we have bills and kids to look after.

not to mention other health issues far more dangerous than Covid that needs addressing and can’t be due to the mass hysteria and lockdowns all over the place.

cant see any vaccine for a long time, so what do we do? All hide indoors and not work, let our debts mount up while jobs and more lives are lost because of fear mongering?

cant continue like this forever, we will see more scenes like London yesterday and in Naples as time goes on as people have frankly had enough, lives are being ruined by this.

it’s great if you work from home, don’t socialise or hardly ever leave the house, but the majority are not like that and want there lives and freedoms back.

 

[Harry_BKK]

Good article from a practicing doctor in stockholm:

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quotes:

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, in terms of number of deaths per 100,000 population. Ever. And I don’t mean the least deadly September, I mean the least deadly month. Ever. To me, this is pretty clear evidence of two things. First, that covid is not a very deadly disease. And second, that Sweden has herd immunity.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

, the response from proponents of further lockdown was that the reason September was such an un-deadly month, was because everyone has already died earlier in the pandemic. To me, that seems like a pretty self-defeating argument. Why?
Because 6,000 people have died of covid in Sweden, a country with a population of 10,000,000 people. 6,000 people is 0,06% of the population. If it is enough for that tiny a fraction of a population to die of a pandemic for the pandemic to peter out so completely that a country can have its least deadly month ever, then the pandemic was never that deadly to begin with.

The average person who died in the 1918 pandemic was in their late 20’s. So each death in the 1918 pandemic actually meant around 50 years more of life lost per person than each death in the covid pandemic. Multiply that by the fact that it had a 19 times higher death rate, and the 1918 flu was in fact 950 times more deadly than covid, in terms its capacity to shorten people’s lives.

Ok, I’ve discussed the fatality rate of the 1918 flu pandemic, and compared that to covid. But what about the fatality rate of the common cold viruses that are constantly circulating in society? How does covid compare to them?

Many people think that the common cold viruses are harmless. But in fact, among elderly people with underlying health conditions, they are frequently deadly.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

found that, among frail elderly people, rhinovirus is actually more deadly than regular influenza. In that study, the 30 day mortality for frail elderly people admitted to hospital due to a rhinovirus infection was 10% . For frail elderly people admitted to hospital due to influenza, 30 day mortality was 7% .

What is my point? If you are old and frail, and have underlying health conditions, then even that most harmless of all infections, the so called “common cold”, can be deadly. In fact, it often is. Covid-19 is not a unique disease, and does not appear to have a noticeably higher mortality rate than the so called “common cold”.

There is one final aspect to all this that needs to be discussed. And that is the effect of covid on overall mortality. If it turns out that covid has no effect on overall mortality, then that really brings in to question why we are locking down, since we’re not actually preventing any deaths. So, what is the effect of covid on overall mortality?

Let’s look at Sweden, since that is perhaps the country that has taken the most relaxed approach of any to preventing spread, and which should therefore also reasonably be expected to have had the highest impact on its overall death rate. From January to September 2020,

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

. That is less than both 2017 and 2018. In fact, 2020 is so far the third least deadly year in Swedish history.

What does this mean? It means that covid, a supposedly deadly viral pandemic, has not killed enough Swedes to have any noticeable impact on overall mortality.

I am not saying that covid is nothing, or that it doesn’t exist. I am saying that it is a virus with a marginal effect on longevity. And yet, public policy in most countries has been driven by doomsday scenarios based on completely unrealistic numbers. To put it simply, we’ve acted like we’re dealing with a global ebola outbreak, when covid is much more like the common cold.

-------------

Obviously any person dying of this new disease is sad but in terms of epidemiology and the macro side of things, the numbers are calculated in a neutral, statistical way; if the lockdowns in the uk have had an effect then without them are people suggesting we would have had 80,000 dead?

It's looking to me when you compare sweden's numbers to the uk, the lockdown hasn't had the effect [of saving lives from covid] we'd expect, and in due course could take more lives from the collateral damage effect.

Aaah, how cute mack.... finally found something again? This time going for herd immunity again?

You do know that this guy graduated in September 2019 and is an assistant physician in a big hospital with no experience in infectious diseases whatsoever?

Funny though I read some of his earlier articles. You see I search the internet too, in fact I still had his blog in my history. His opening statement:

"Ok, I want to preface this article by stating that it is entirely anecdotal and based on my experience working as a doctor in the emergency room of one of the big hospitals in Stockholm, Sweden, and of living as a citizen in Sweden."

Keep digging mack!

 

[Harry_BKK]

Haha they do look uncannily similar, just watched a interview on Andrew marr with him about 5 minutes back oddly enough.

and you can list a million scenarios but the reality is harry it’s just really not that deadly to the majority, and we as a majority need to go out and work, we have bills and kids to look after.

not to mention other health issues far more dangerous than Covid that needs addressing and can’t be due to the mass hysteria and lockdowns all over the place.

cant see any vaccine for a long time, so what do we do? All hide indoors and not work, let our debts mount up while jobs and more lives are lost because of fear mongering?

cant continue like this forever, we will see more scenes like London yesterday and in Naples as time goes on as people have frankly had enough, lives are being ruined by this.

it’s great if you work from home, don’t socialise or hardly ever leave the house, but the majority are not like that and want there lives and freedoms back.

Nobody, not a single soul on this planet, is gunning for a complete lockdown. You can always reopen in the safest possible way - SK, Taiwan, Australia, NZ, SG, TH are just a few examples.

It is the lack of discipline and the assumed "godgiven right" of a good portion of the population who thinks they do not have to listen to any advice - medical, governmental etc. - that keeps the pandemic going.

Let's face it, hardly any Western nation had a proper lockdown in the first place, not a good plan how to get the pandemic under control. Everyone hoped it would "magically disappear".

 

[mack341]

Aaah, how cute mack.... finally found something again? This time going for herd immunity again?

You do know that this guy graduated in September 2019 and is an assistant physician in a big hospital with no experience in infectious diseases whatsoever?

Funny though I read some of his earlier articles. You see I search the internet too, in fact I still had his blog in my history. His opening statement:

"Ok, I want to preface this article by stating that it is entirely anecdotal and based on my experience working as a doctor in the emergency room of one of the big hospitals in Stockholm, Sweden, and of living as a citizen in Sweden."

Keep digging mack!

You can clearly see he is quoting figures and sources in the article I posted; the quote you have provided does not preface this article, was that from one earlier in the year?

It is not about digging, I saw the article linked on ivor cummins' twitter, why don't you refute the points he has made in this article?

edit: it is also quite clear from the attacks and disregard of the highly qualified doctors, Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, Dr. Sunetra Gupta and Dr. Martin Kulldorff, that age or experience matters not one iota to the proponents of lockdown in the uk.

 

[Playford7]

Nobody, not a single soul on this planet, is gunning for a complete lockdown. You can always reopen in the safest possible way - SK, Taiwan, Australia, NZ, SG, TH are just a few examples.

It is the lack of discipline and the assumed "godgiven right" of a good portion of the population who thinks they do not have to listen to any advice - medical, governmental etc. - that keeps the pandemic going.

Let's face it, hardly any Western nation had a proper lockdown in the first place, not a good plan how to get the pandemic under control. Everyone hoped it would "magically disappear".

I totally agree harry a proper lockdown at the start maybe even for 2 months should of been done, 100% Full lockdown, no exceptions.

this stop start and dilly dally approach from the conservatives has been farcical from the get go.

And it’s not a lack of discipline harry, you can’t just treat people Like mindless robots whom are expected to comply with there masters commands at will and have full faith said masters have there best interests at heart.

When people are losing business they worked for and livelihoods they built up for years they have a bloody right to be outraged and speak what they feel.

People have every right to agree or disagree, right or wrong. That’s what living in a free nation is all about, I speak from the U.K. so can’t comment for elsewhere, but I’m glad I’m not under a dictatorship like China, I like my freedom and free will and choice.

if I personally choose not to comply that’s down to me, nobody else. (I have stuck to the rules-well common sense based ones) but if I don’t want to that’s my right, like someone’s right to want to adhere to what they are told.

 

[Harry_BKK]

You can clearly see he is quoting figures and sources in the article I posted; the quote you have provided does not preface this article, was that from one earlier in the year?

It is not about digging, I saw the article linked on ivor cummins' twitter, why don't you refute the points he has made in this article?

edit: it is also quite clear from the attacks and disregard of the highly qualified doctors, Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, Dr. Sunetra Gupta and Dr. Martin Kulldorff, that age or experience matters not one iota to the proponents of lockdown in the uk.

I am not saying a country needs a full lockdown for years, nor do I like it in the least but I bear with it. We had 2 months and have been reopening slowly since. No one has gone hungry, the economy starts to come back and we still wear masks/social distance/avoid large gathering. It is really that simple mack.

Plus, Sweden has only very few places with high population density which helps in containing the spread. And it's not like they had no restrictions. People listened better, that is the main difference IMO.

To your edit: The Barrington Declaration folks - what exact plan did they come up with with all their experience? Would be nice to see proper proposals from people who are such "highly qualified doctors".

 

[mack341]

Found that quote, was from his article on the 4 aug:

Ok, I want to preface this article by stating that it is entirely anecdotal and based on my experience working as a doctor in the emergency room of one of the big hospitals in Stockholm, Sweden, and of living as a citizen in Sweden. As many people know, Sweden is perhaps the country that has taken the most relaxed attitude of any towards the covid pandemic. Unlike other countries, Sweden never went in to complete lockdown. Non-essential businesses have remained open, people have continued to go to cafés and restaurants, children have remained in school, and very few people have bothered with face masks in public.

Covid hit Stockholm like a storm in mid-March. One day I was seeing people with appendicitis and kidney stones, the usual things you see in the emergency room. The next day all those patients were gone and the only thing coming in to the hospital was covid. Practically everyone who was tested had covid, regardless of what the presenting symtom was. People came in with a nose bleed and they had covid. They came in with stomach pain and they had covid.

Then, after a few months, all the covid patients disappeared. It is now four months since the start of the pandemic, and I haven’t seen a single covid patient in over a month. .

-------------

 

[mack341]

This is an experiment in embedding a chart off that site, as I can't copy and paste:

edit: didn't work

 

[Harry_BKK]

This is an experiment in embedding a chart off that site, as I can't copy and paste:

edit: didn't work

BTW, I am still waiting for your answer to post a plan, a sound proposal, an alternative....anything really....that those brilliant Barrington doctors you lauded have published. I searched high and low. Nada.

 

[cncas2123]

BTW, I am still waiting for your answer to post a plan, a sound proposal, an alternative....anything really....that those brilliant Barrington doctors you lauded have published. I searched high and low. Nada.

You are forgetting the rules of the game Harry, its only the people who think that Coronavirus is dangerous and a worldwide threat that have to provide evidence.
The people who believe its a bluff, its blown out of proportion or that its merely a Flu never have to have anything to back this up, they can just churn out the same old conspiracy theory videos and sites and its up to everyone else to prove that its wrong.

 

[Playford7]

You are forgetting the rules of the game Harry, its only the people who think that Coronavirus is dangerous and a worldwide threat that have to provide evidence.
The people who believe its a bluff, its blown out of proportion or that its merely a Flu never have to have anything to back this up, they can just churn out the same old conspiracy theory videos and sites and its up to everyone else to prove that its wrong.

I can mention being in hospital twice and them being like a ghost town, also many people tested with little or no symptoms at all.

those who where Ill ‘a couple next door to me, both teachers’ had the wuhan wheezer, tested positive.
nothing but a bad cold they both said.

yes, if you have pre existing or underlying problems it can be nasty, just like the flu I suppose.
Or if your elderly.

the rest of us are at little to no risk at all of even becoming poorly.

the measures are ridiculous and blown all out of proportion, utterly not justified in any way at all, speaking of the U.K. here.

that’s my experience above, not a conspiracy or from MSM which you lot love bless your cottons.

I’ll not be complying with any of this nonsense any longer.

 

[cncas2123]

I can mention being in hospital twice and them being like a ghost town, also many people tested with little or no symptoms at all.

those who where Ill ‘a couple next door to me, both teachers’ had the wuhan wheezer, tested positive.
nothing but a bad cold they both said.

yes, if you have pre existing or underlying problems it can be nasty, just like the flu I suppose.
Or if your elderly.

the rest of us are at little to no risk at all of even becoming poorly.

the measures are ridiculous and blown all out of proportion, utterly not justified in any way at all, speaking of the U.K. here.

that’s my experience above, not a conspiracy or from MSM which you lot love bless your cottons.

I’ll not be complying with any of this nonsense any longer.

The only reason that the deaths are so low in the UK is because of the months of lockdown and special measures.
I dont think that full lockdown is either an option or a solution, I think for that to work properly it should have been done 6 or 7 weeks ago when numbers started creeping up again. At that stage we should have locked down and had a fit for purpose track and trace system in place.
My personal thoughts are that we need to develop a new normal were we all take more care with our surroundings and we all take responsibility for our own actions and realise the consequences of the actions.
I would have restaurants/cafe's/Pubs and entertainment venues opened, but they would need a certificate to prove that they have good measures in place for customer safety etc, and good cleaning and sanitization zones. The same with hairdressers, barbers, nail bars and spa's, let them open as long as they have the good practice in place and look after their patrons.
I would also have limited crowds at sporting events, again as long as they have the measures in place.
Its all about trying to limit the exposure and for me houseparties, overcrowded pubs and clubs dont have and can never have the right measures in place, but if everyone takes personal responsibility and venues help us to take the responsibility, why dont we open them up?

 

[dealer wins]

I honestly dont believe the March "3 week lol" lockdown saved a single life, in fact it probably increased deaths. Let alone the 26000 excess deaths in the home, the 1000s and 1000s of looming cancer deaths coming from lack of timely treatment.

Lockdowns are a disaster all round, and as we shall soon see, the poverty coming because of them will kill millions and millions all around the world.

 

[mack341]

BTW, I am still waiting for your answer to post a plan, a sound proposal, an alternative....anything really....that those brilliant Barrington doctors you lauded have published. I searched high and low. Nada.

I've just been playing some slots courtesy of Guntis' kind prize and comp...sorry to keep you waiting

Well you'd target your actions at protecting the most vulnerable, be that by age or a condition that increases the risks from covid.

So they could apply for priority assistance in order to isolate themselves if they wished to, [ the yorkshire lady of 83 yrs in that vid didn't want to be shut indoors and had already had the virus and recovered] that would be financial assistance/work from home help/shopping help.

Perhaps we should have used the german track and trace system as it seems to work better than our specially designed, costs billions, super-duper one.

I can agree with keeping the masks on inside shops if it helps, but get the NHS working back as normal, cut all the fear propaganda in the msm, find a more accurate test than pcr or adjust the figures to take into account the problems with it.

------------

You may have missed the latest front cover of Time, what right does Klaus frigging schwab have to dictate that we need his new normal~great reset as reaction to covid; if his davos buddies stop dodging tax all the time we could save a lot of lives improving our health system - just by that alone.

 

[Playford7]

Covid: Wales' lockdown supermarket rules to be 'clarified'

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realised its idiotic and back tracking already

 

[pinnit2014]

So, clothes aren't essential?

Guess the neighbours are in for a treat when I head out in 5.

 

[Harry_BKK]

I've just been playing some slots courtesy of Guntis' kind prize and comp...sorry to keep you waiting

Well you'd target your actions at protecting the most vulnerable, be that by age or a condition that increases the risks from covid.

So they could apply for priority assistance in order to isolate themselves if they wished to, [ the yorkshire lady of 83 yrs in that vid didn't want to be shut indoors and had already had the virus and recovered] that would be financial assistance/work from home help/shopping help.

Perhaps we should have used the german track and trace system as it seems to work better than our specially designed, costs billions, super-duper one.

I can agree with keeping the masks on inside shops if it helps, but get the NHS working back as normal, cut all the fear propaganda in the msm, find a more accurate test than pcr or adjust the figures to take into account the problems with it.

------------

You may have missed the latest front cover of Time, what right does Klaus frigging schwab have to dictate that we need his new normal~great reset as reaction to covid; if his davos buddies stop dodging tax all the time we could save a lot of lives improving our health system - just by that alone.

View attachment 143743

I meant a plan from those doctors. Easy to put out some 1-page declaration with no real arguments other than saying this is bad and that is bad and by the way that is bad too.

BTW, I dread putting the mask on being an eyeglass wearer (short & far-sighted). Try wearing one and then go from 35 degrees to a 20 degrees AC mall. You can't see a thing and every time you breathe out, it is fogging up again. Hence, I would be the first to simply throw it into the bin. But I do my duty as it should be expected between us fellow humans to do our part in slowing/prohibiting the spread. There is not a single person in SG walking (other than people doing sports like running) without a mask. Everyone gets registered when you enter a facility - mall, restaurant, cinema etc etc. Fast contact tracing in place. Protections set-up where needed. All a pain in the butt, but it works.

It's all just so different from what I see happening in Europe or the US.

 

[Playford7]

I meant a plan from those doctors. Easy to put out some 1-page declaration with no real arguments other than saying this is bad and that is bad and by the way that is bad too.

BTW, I dread putting the mask being an eyeglass wearer (short & far-sighted). Try wearing one and then go from 35 degrees to a 20 degrees AC mall. You can't see a thing and every time you breathe out, it is fogging up again. Hence, I would be the first to simply throw it into the bin. But I do my duty as it should be expected between us fellow humans to do our part in slowing/prohibiting the spread. There is not a single person in SG walking (other than people doing sports like running) without a mask. Everyone gets registered when you enter a facility - mall, restaurant, cinema etc etc. Fast contact tracing in place. Protections set-up where needed. All a pain in the butt, but it works.

It's all just so different from what I see happening in Europe or the US.

That’s the thing, the systems we have in place here in the U.K. are flawed and frankly don’t work.

it’s why people are getting fed up, they (Our government) are implementing these idiotic lockdown and measures Because they need to buy time, it’s abundantly clear they messed up and they know it.

the tiers, madness like in Wales are just smoke and mirrors to cover up from the governments incompetence.

 

[dealer wins]

I've just been playing some slots courtesy of Guntis' kind prize and comp...sorry to keep you waiting

Well you'd target your actions at protecting the most vulnerable, be that by age or a condition that increases the risks from covid.

So they could apply for priority assistance in order to isolate themselves if they wished to, [ the yorkshire lady of 83 yrs in that vid didn't want to be shut indoors and had already had the virus and recovered] that would be financial assistance/work from home help/shopping help.

Perhaps we should have used the german track and trace system as it seems to work better than our specially designed, costs billions, super-duper one.

I can agree with keeping the masks on inside shops if it helps, but get the NHS working back as normal, cut all the fear propaganda in the msm, find a more accurate test than pcr or adjust the figures to take into account the problems with it.

------------

You may have missed the latest front cover of Time, what right does Klaus frigging schwab have to dictate that we need his new normal~great reset as reaction to covid; if his davos buddies stop dodging tax all the time we could save a lot of lives improving our health system - just by that alone.

View attachment 143743

That vile Klaus Schwab. Matt Hancock is a big fan, see this official speech transcript by him in 2017.

The whole thing is starting to stink more than a pile of manure.

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[Harry_BKK]

That’s the thing, the systems we have in place here in the U.K. are flawed and frankly don’t work.

it’s why people are getting fed up, they (Our government) are implementing these idiotic lockdown and measures Because they need to buy time, it’s abundantly clear they messed up and they know it.

the tiers, madness like in Wales are just smoke and mirrors to cover up from the governments incompetence.

It is always easy to blame the government for everything that goes wrong in our lives. I have seen pics and news from the UK, no way that people were distancing, there were little to no masks etc etc. So I would give it maybe a 50:50 rating as to who is to blame.

 

[Slottery]

Over 1% of population tested positive so far here, new ones coming between 100-200 a day, masks mandatory everywhere outside (some exceptions like jogging, smoking eating etc.. but in general).

Probably healthy lifestyle keeps so many people still alive.

Malta appears to be the most obese country within the European Union - according to Eurostat and the World Health Organization.

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With 26% - meaning one out of four adults - being obese, Malta is far ahead on the obesity scale, comparable to other EU countries.

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For children, the situation is worse in Malta, as 40% of all children are obese there. The prevalence of obesity has increased from 23% in 2002 to 25% in 2015.

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EDIT: Tourism of course been tacking massive hit and loads of traval related businesses are strugling and many stopped for operating (as most can't forecast how long and what gonna happen within next year or so), accommodation is almost free atm. saw some hotel offering monthly rates from 250€ and when checking booking.com now, you find even there prices from 519€/month includig breakfast....

Next year would probably bee quite good timing to buy something from this island, hotels, restaurants, apartments most probably available with quite reasonable price after 10+ years of huge increase (or seem to be 74.89% from some stats but guess it's quite big for 10 years) in especially properties.

Like my landlady decided to to sell apartment i'm living (over year ago), found after some months looking somebody to pay 400k€ (!?!?!?!?) from this place, told by then that i could pay 150-200k€, then buyers loan didn't get approved by bank and now could be happy to get over that 200k€, timing is everything when living in housing boom...

 

[Harry_BKK]

You may have missed the latest front cover of Time, what right does Klaus frigging schwab have to dictate that we need his new normal~great reset as reaction to covid; if his davos buddies stop dodging tax all the time we could save a lot of lives improving our health system - just by that alone.

View attachment 143743

Trust me mack, you and I would be no different in his position.

I don't know much about him, nor did I ever follow the Davos stuff. It surely has not impacted me on how I lived my life so far.

 

[Playford7]

It is always easy to blame the government for everything that goes wrong in our lives. I have seen pics and news from the UK, no way that people were distancing, there were little to no masks etc etc. So I would give it maybe a 50:50 rating as to who is to blame.

In fairness harry everywhere near me have been, pubs and restaurants are super strict and have all precautions in place.

same for shops and schools, Isabelle’s anyhow.

in the summer we did have loads of mass gatherings at beauty spots, also the BLM marches, they where exempt from Covid restrictions for some reason.

and no you can’t always blame the government, but imo had they done this properly from day one then don’t think we would be here now, but we won’t ever know I guess, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

 

[sufferinsilence]

Is it that hard to understand that when hospitals have to dedicate more personnel to covid-patients other care goes down? Hence other wards are emptier and there is not that much going on in other parts of the hospital.

They can't just have those that work in the covid-wards hop over to the other ones because of safety measures. They could create 1000s of extra regular beds and ICU beds but if you don't have the right personnel it's useless too.

So yes, in the end more people with diseases that could've been cured when caught in the early stages might die and be part of the collateral damage.

What do you propose? Not admitting people with corona? Putting them in the general wards without protection?

I think both pro- and anti-lockdown people agree on more than we actually see on the surface. We both want to get back to normality for one but we would also love for the collateral damage to be as low as possible, just what we don't agree on is which way is best.

Oh, and a story about Sweden vs Netherlands on Twitter. Especially read the last part:
"Can I please be clear that Sweden is a county with 10m people with like 5x the size of the Netherlands. They’re able to do this because they don’t live on top of each other. NL still has 10k cases a day. WEAR A MASK. Wash your hands and keep distance."

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[shadow123]

Still dont know why the UK didnt ask around and buy a track annd trace system with a proven record of working
from another country, surely better than pouring billions into one that had to be scrapped, then producing another which stll isnt up to the job.Money is money, why would any country refuse to sell it.
(well apart from a few obvious ones).Way back we were promised a world beating system, still waiting.
Obviously the software is only part of the system,organizing people to run it properly seems to be a problem,
but if you have a proven app to start with.