Corona virus - Covid 19 discussion

[slotplayer]

Well at least a bunch of us did get to see the Monkees at a free radio summer concert in the early 1990's.

Well I'll update this just for the record, not that it matters, it was in 2001 and not at City Hall Plaza but at the Esplanade Hatch Shell.

 

[slotmaster]

Ford calling them yahoos was the greatest thing ever. Of course, people complained but it's exactly who and what we need in politics!

 

[slotmaster]

Only 20 people, their social distancing was on point I assume. And they were probably very polite too.

Hi Mister, Thank you for your wonderful post and you're looking wonderful today. " From a Canadian"

*What Canadians are really like*... SHUT THE F!@# UP YOU IGNORANT F!@#EN !@#HOLE and I just think of myself! which explains females pretty good as well.

Have no idea how people think like all Canadians are sweet and polite cause just spend a day in my city and you will see what I mean. (maybe some parts of Canada people are happy and polite)

 

[goatwack]

Leading the way as you'd expect

in incompetence

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[slotplayer]

A lot of people out today, biking, walking, etc.. Masks are mandatory starting this Wed. or $300 fine. Everyone wears a mask anyway.

 

[snorky510238]

Another thing I don’t get is they say lockdown was not implemented straight away to slow down the peak. How does that even make any sense?

Hypothetically we will say on March for 1st country X had 10,000 cases.

Example 1. Lockdown the country immediately, meaning the only people that will get the virus are the people who would have still gotten the virus in example 2. They either already have it or will catch it from someone they live with or they are a key worker but again nothing that doesn’t change in E.g. 2.

After “6 weeks”? All cases have an outcome and have been closed. There are no new cases.

Examples 2.
Leave everything as normal for 6 weeks so that some of the 10,000 that haven’t yet shown symptoms of the virus are free to carry on as usual unwittingly spreading it to another
5,000 who a week later have spread it to another 10,000 then to 20,000 then to 40,000 etc. Let’s not forget this was purposely done.

We now have the same scenario as example 1 where we go into lockdown but with 40,000 cases instead of the 10,000 we started with.

The peak, for example 1 cannot be higher than example 2. Just that in example 2 you have a peak that goes on for much longer (the current situation) so letting it spread to slow down the peak (unless I am missing something obvious) doesn’t hold any sway for me. All it has done is maintain the peak for much longer than was necessary.

 

[shadow123]

The lockdown should have been implemented asap when we saw what was happening in China,
Italy warned us time and time again but we just ignored them and our deaths are on par with theirs now.
We had every chance to learn from the misfortune of other countries but did absolutely nothing,
Dont know what their thinking was,I am a big fan of Boris but it happened on his watch and a lot
have people have died as a result.

 

[geordiecolin]

Interesting watch before the video gets pulled down. Lends more credence to this virus being man-made.

Fauci should be prosecuted for crimes against America and humanity.

 

[Harry_BKK]

The lockdown should have been implemented asap when we saw what was happening in China,
Italy warned us time and time again but we just ignored them and our deaths are on par with theirs now.
We had every chance to learn from the misfortune of other countries but did absolutely nothing,
Dont know what their thinking was,I am a big fan of Boris but it happened on his watch and a lot
have people have died as a result.

Here's a good documentary from Wuhan under lockdown. Good to compare how it's done everywhere else.

Note: The footage might have been "cleaned up" a little but I think it is still a good indication.

 

[bamberfishcake]

The lockdown should have been implemented asap when we saw what was happening in China,
Italy warned us time and time again but we just ignored them and our deaths are on par with theirs now.
We had every chance to learn from the misfortune of other countries but did absolutely nothing,
Dont know what their thinking was,I am a big fan of Boris but it happened on his watch and a lot
have people have died as a result.

Our lockdown and approach has been an absolute farce i think.

Too little, too late and its very hard to deny that we could have been much better prepared. Geographically we had a bonus in lead time which should have been used. Too much fire fighting and not enough pro-active, preventative measures, in my opinion.

Should have stopped all traffic immediately, apart from essential supplies and food. Rallied the captains of industry sooner to enable the nation to deal with the crisis. Possibly even flexed our financial muscle to gain some of the supplies fought over at the start.

Yesterday and today there are increasing numbers of people out and cars about. As far as i was aware nothing has been lifted yet. Still a shortage of supplies though i appreciate worldwide but other means such as universities and sme's could have been enabled. Not heard anything more about testing since the botched tests and again other means could and can still be employed.

Problem was too much uncertainty and not enough decisive action from Boris. He u-turned on his original plan from what i can tell once it had already been implemented. Decided against buying in stock and instead gave orders of manufacturing to his pals of industry, no doubt under pressure from the city.

I wouldnt mind so much but i have little faith going forward at the minute given nothing has improved really as far as i can see. Oh, hang on, toilet roll is no longer at a shortage. Supplies are steadily coming in and maybe, just maybe we are past the peak, unless i am missing something.

 

[shadow123]

Just got back from walking the dog in the local park, so busy I had trouble parking but almost everyone
was practicing social distance so not really a problem.One family were sat on a bench all the time I was
there , there are always some people who dont listen or care but generally everyone was behaving themselves.
Lot of traffic on the roads though, dont know where everyone was going on a Sundayi

 

[shadow123]

Not at all impressed with Hancock, always struck me as being slimey.Still not publishing a proper
breakdown of deaths to hide the number in care homes.Said the science about wearing masks
was weak ie they dont want to have to provide masks if it becomes compulsory.
Fortunately Boris overruled him

 

[Kroffe]

Just got back from walking the dog in the local park, so busy I had trouble parking but almost everyone
was practicing social distance so not really a problem.One family were sat on a bench all the time I was
there , there are always some people who listen or care but generally everyone was behaving themselves.
Lot of traffic on the roads though, dont know where everyone was going on a Sundayi

I know where!

 

[interlog]

Just got back from walking the dog in the local park, so busy I had trouble parking but almost everyone
was practicing social distance so not really a problem.One family were sat on a bench all the time I was
there , there are always some people who dont listen or care but generally everyone was behaving themselves.
Lot of traffic on the roads though, dont know where everyone was going on a Sundayi

Maybe they too drove to the local park to walk the dog?

 

[irish-ranger]

Maybe they too drove to the local park to walk the dog?

 

[Harry_BKK]

Last week a Republican memo leaked that showed their playbook to blame China for COVID-19 to deflect from Mr T's failings. There is a link to the memo in the article:

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Promptly, Mr Pompano has "enormous" evidence that it came from the Wuhan lab. Amazing how quick he was able to find it.

Just like he had "clear" evidence last year that showed the Iranians were responsible for the attacks on the ships in the Gulf of Oman and he repeatedly promised to present to the UN Security Council (not a shred until today).

And no surprise, he again does not cite any evidence whatsoever.

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[cncas2123]

Last week a Republican memo leaked that showed their playbook to blame China for COVID-19 to deflect from Mr T failings. There is a link to the memo in the article:

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Promptly, Mr Pompano has "enormous" evidence that it came from the Wuhan lab. Amazing how quick he was able to find it.

Just like he had "clear" evidence last year that showed the Iranians were responsible for the attacks on the ships in the Gulf of Oman and he repeatedly promised to present to the UN Security Council (not a shred until today).

And no surprise, he again does not cite any evidence whatsoever.

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Enormous evidence but then he says this - Pompeo stopped short of saying the virus was man-made, noting that he agreed with

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by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence that ruled out genetic modification or it having been man-made.

Typical in the Trumpian universe where you don't need truth or fact, you only need to keep repeating the lie and it will fuel the conspiracy theory and feed the base.

 

[Harry_BKK]

Enormous evidence but then he says this - Pompeo stopped short of saying the virus was man-made, noting that he agreed with

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by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence that ruled out genetic modification or it having been man-made.

Typical in the Trumpian universe where you don't need truth or fact, you only need to keep repeating the lie and it will fuel the conspiracy theory and feed the base.

Nothing shocks me anymore TBH (and especially after reading that memo) as to how far our US "friends" will go to spread misinformation to shield their Cult leader from criticism.

 

[Harry_BKK]

Enormous evidence but then he says this - Pompeo stopped short of saying the virus was man-made, noting that he agreed with

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by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence that ruled out genetic modification or it having been man-made.

Typical in the Trumpian universe where you don't need truth or fact, you only need to keep repeating the lie and it will fuel the conspiracy theory and feed the base.

Also found this on a different site:

He forgot really quickly that the last country who had to close a BSL-4 level lab was the US itself. Was in Sept 2019. Very short memory Mr Pompano.

Here a short list of the issues they found there and Mr Pompano has the audacity to call the Chinese laboratories "substandard":

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[goatwack]

For all we know Trump & Pompeo DO have irrefutable proof and are waiting to disclose it in its entirety, at the right time.

If anything Trump's leadership has been exemplary throughout this crisis, and doesn't deserve the criticism aimed at him

 

[Dinahnana]

The plot thickens, although I always believed that it came from a lab and the information in this video isn't one bit surprising. Some conspiracy theories turn out to be true. When the dust settles I think a thorough international investigation should take place and let the chips fall where they land so we can hope to prevent scenarios like this in the future.

 

[Harry_BKK]

The plot thickens, although I always believed that it came from a lab and the information in this video isn't one bit surprising. Some conspiracy theories turn out to be true. When the dust settles I think a thorough international investigation should take place and let the chips fall where they land so we can hope to prevent scenarios like this in the future.

No it doesn't.

 

[Kroffe]

Yeah, wasnt convinced when i saw the article on that right-wing propaganda paper, and isnt convinced by some random guy on youtube reading from said article.

Not saying it cant be that it was leaked from a lab in wuhan, but its not like this is proving it.

 

[Dinahnana]

Yeah, wasnt convinced when i saw the article on that right-wing propaganda paper, and isnt convinced by some random guy on youtube reading from said article.

Not saying it cant be that it was leaked from a lab in wuhan, but its not like this is proving it.

So if it came from the regular propaganda ridden leftest media outlet's it would be more trustworthy? Most media outlets are leftwing so if someone quotes a right-wing outlet it's automatically assumed to be propaganda? Do some research and channels like Serpentza and lawhy86 and their combined channel ADV China and ADV Podcasts have been speaking about this for a few months. These guys lived in China for many years and speak and read Chinese and what's in the video is a condensed version of what I have heard from these channels among others in the last few months. Not all sources are right-wing.

 

[Kroffe]

So if it came from the regular propaganda ridden leftest media outlet's it would be more trustworthy? Most media outlets are leftwing so if someone quotes a right-wing outlet it's automatically assumed to be propaganda? Do some research and channels like Serpentza and lawhy86 and their combined channel ADV China and ADV Podcasts have been speaking about this for a few months. These guys lived in China for many years and speak and read Chinese and what's in the video is a condensed version of what I have heard from these channels among others in the last few months. Not all sources are right-wing.

He is reading from dailymail, wich is no doubt a right-wing propaganda site, with poor sourcing on their articles (if any), mixed with what my favorite oompa loompa would call:

No, not all sources are right-wing, but the site he is reading from in the video is a poor excuse for a news-site.
Sounds like by what you are saying you wouldnt trust a left-leaning site, so why trust a right-leaning one?

 

[Dinahnana]

He is reading from dailymail, wich is no doubt a right-wing propaganda site, with poor sourcing on their articles (if any), mixed with what my favorite oompa loompa would call:

View attachment 130200

No, not all sources are right-wing, but the site he is reading from in the video is a poor excuse for a news-site.
Sounds like by what you are saying you wouldnt trust a left-leaning site, so why trust a right-leaning one?

I trust independent media more so there is that. Also, do the math lab was less than 400 metres from the so-called epicentre (the same lab that was studying Coronavirus, it was listed on its own website), China allowed people to leave China but not go to other places in China when they knew they had a serious problem on their hands. China waited quite a long time to let the WHO on the ground in Wuhan until late February I think. They released the RNA sequence in early January but not any virus samples. All of these facts are verifiably true so I approach the whole scenario like Occam's Razor.

 

[vorcirion]

I trust independent media more so there is that. Also, do the math lab was less than 400 metres from the so-called epicentre (the same lab that was studying Coronavirus, it was listed on its own website), China allowed people to leave China but not go to other places in China when they knew they had a serious problem on their hands. China waited quite a long time to let the WHO on the ground in Wuhan until late February I think. They released the RNA sequence in early January but not any virus samples. All of these facts are verifiably true so I approach the whole scenario like Occam's Razor.

What does it matter really? If it escaped from a lab...then that happened. Or are you suggesting that they used the virus as a weapon or what?

 

[Dinahnana]

What does it matter really? If it escaped from a lab...then that happened. Or are you suggesting that they used the virus as a weapon or what?

I think the release from the lab was accidental due to lax practices at the lab. I am suggesting they allowed the rest of the world to be infected as to lessen the economic impact on their own country. They were heavily advocating for keeping travel and trade open with China as they locked down Wuhan and told the WHO in January that there was no proof of human to human infection even though they knew that it was.

 

[vorcirion]

I think the release from the lab was accidental due to lax practices at the lab. I am suggesting they allowed the rest of the world to be infected as to lessen the economic impact on their own country. They were heavily advocating for keeping travel and trade open with China as they locked down Wuhan and told the WHO in January that there was no proof of human to human infection even though they knew that it was.

I decided to watch the video you linked and all of it seemed to be based on some dossier, that somehow only tabloids have seen. And when there's US involvement...I won't trust that one bit. It feels like a propaganda war and Trump and Pompeo won't give us the evidence.
If there were such evidence, I'm sure Trump would happily give it to the whole world asap since he has an election to win.

 

[bamberfishcake]

Not at all impressed with Hancock, always struck me as being slimey.Still not publishing a proper
breakdown of deaths to hide the number in care homes.Said the science about wearing masks
was weak ie they dont want to have to provide masks if it becomes compulsory.
Fortunately Boris overruled him

I have not seen or read about this. Funny how the science for wearing masks is weak. Whats weak about it then? Water droplets from infected plus mask = less infected water droplets doesnt it? Does 2 + 2 still = 4?

Im just asking because i think im hearing that a poltician is throwing doubt on the effectiveness of masks.

Is this not the kind of conversation you should be having with the village idiot not a politician.

Yes, its wonderful that Boris overruled him.

Hopefully its not political points scoring for our illustrious leader. You know, the kind of 'well i dont agree but the evidence points to....' u-turn that so many politicians do after they have had their version of spin put out there or the stage set by another.

Masks work. Unbelievable the idea they had no effect was stated from the start let alone still being discussed now.

If Hancock's stupid brain cannot compute that a mask is useful in a pandemic where the virus is contagious via water droplets then he is useless and simply too stupid to have his job.

What a true and absolute idiot - dont think i have ever called anybody that in my entire life so at least that makes him a special kind of idiot.

 

[bamberfishcake]

Anybody else seen this?

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Hancock is an idiot but my troubles are nowhere near as bad as that.

 

[goatwack]

Sky's been covering some of these regions, I think it was another part of Africa. People queueing for hours and so forth

This is not it but close enough

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And worse than that, it's not even these people are 'guaranteed' to receive anything. They could be waiting for 8 hours and then turned away

But yes, us Westerners having to stay at home in creature comforts waaaah

 

[sufferinsilence]

I trust independent media more so there is that.

"Independent" media. Show me some truly independent media outlets.

I'll help you: there are none!

 

[dionysus]

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[snorky510238]

I don’t like being negative but I am a realist and I personally think, this is just beginning. Imo anyone who thinks we are through the worst is delusional. Even thinking about easing restrictions is insanity for me. A month from now the majority of the world will be in chaos. To add fuel to the fire would be nothing short of madness.

Only my opinion which could be completely wrong as I don’t profess to be an expert, nor are my thoughts influenced by anything I have read. It just seems logical to me.

 

[dionysus]

I really don't think this is world-ending and civ is going to collapse anytime soon; we will however, probably have to learn to live a little differently than we are used to
and seeing as, as a species, we're mostly a self-entitled bunch of pricks, i dont much see it all as a bad thing

 

[goatwack]

Yes indeed, it's not as though people were overly tactile and sending their loving embrace to their fellow man before all this kicked off.

Streets were filled with phone-zombies already versed in social distancing, less concerned with human interaction and more with Instagram updates

I think when I'm finally released into the wild it'll be great social distancing from the social distancers, and best of all I'll be backed by law!

 

[mina1929]

Well the birds are out, having the best time

 

[sufferinsilence]

I don’t like being negative but I am a realist and I personally think, this is just beginning. Imo anyone who thinks we are through the worst is delusional. Even thinking about easing restrictions is insanity for me. A month from now the majority of the world will be in chaos. To add fuel to the fire would be nothing short of madness.

Only my opinion which could be completely wrong as I don’t profess to be an expert, nor are my thoughts influenced by anything I have read. It just seems logical to me.

What exactly do you think will happen when we ease restrictions, not all at once, but keep enforcing social distancing and wear masks?

I think masks are a vital part of this whole ordeal for the next year, year and a half. We downplayed it at first simply because we didn't have enough but now that we are at a point that there are enough available it should be atleast encouraged to wear them out in public.

I hope a 2nd or 3rd wave will be handled better, could it be worse than how we've handled it now?

 

[Harry_BKK]

I trust independent media more so there is that. Also, do the math lab was less than 400 metres from the so-called epicentre (the same lab that was studying Coronavirus, it was listed on its own website), China allowed people to leave China but not go to other places in China when they knew they had a serious problem on their hands. China waited quite a long time to let the WHO on the ground in Wuhan until late February I think. They released the RNA sequence in early January but not any virus samples. All of these facts are verifiably true so I approach the whole scenario like Occam's Razor.

You have not answered my questions from a few pages back and again repeat the same stuff without showing any clear evidence.

Here's a map where people travelled in the weeks 10 - 23 Jan. Two weeks before the lockdown. On 14th Jan, it was reported the first time that human-to-human transmission could be possible.

Each and every country could have had this information, if they were actively doing something to prepare for the oncoming "wave". SK, Singapore, HongKong, Taiwan and a few others did.

Each and every country also has exact data of travel patterns from China into their country, e.g. from which Chinese cities most people (Chinese, other foreigners and their own people) arrive at airports. By this time, any country could have seen which Chinese cities were the high-risk cities.

On 22nd Jan, the WHO announced that human-to-human transmission is happening. Did any of the European countries or the US start doing something on 22nd Jan or maybe on the 23rd Jan when China locked down Wuhan??? Anything, even the smallest action like taking temperatures at airport arrivals?

What exactly would you have promised yourself for the WHO to find out if they would be earlier on the ground? Have you read the protocol / course of action guide for WHO involvement when pockets of an illness are detected? FYI, the WHO was in Wuhan the first time on 21st Jan:

What would have been different if they would have released virus samples at that point? They released the complete genome of the virus on 7th Jan, IIRC. A German lab had a test ready by 16th Jan. Did any country start stocking up? Or start testing seriously?

These are verifiable facts of which you have shown none so far other than some vague accusations and a misleading video which shows no verifiable facts/evidence either. In the video, they cite a leak from the Five Eyes, well, where is the document?????

As for the right-wing media, please make the effort to read the Republican memo that leaked (and yes, you can see the full document, see my earlier post #5166) as to how all should pin the blame on China.

 

[ladyhawke]

[...] That said longer it goes on the more job cuts exist when it opens back up.

A disturbing possibility is that some industries are never going to fully recover, and unemployment could remain at an all-time high. Businesses have learned how to manage with fewer staff, and may be reluctant to re-employ some of their "non-essential" employees, assuming of course that many of these business are going to re-open at all.

Particularly affected will be the retail and hospitality industries, in that it is doubtful our pre-Coronavirus spending habits will return to normal any time soon. in fact, we could be looking at a period of real frugality after the destruction wreaked by COVID-19 on our personal wealth and circumstances. Are we really going to want to return immediately to buying the latest gadget that piques our interest, or a new car, or daily coffees, or eating out regularly, or other 'frivolous activities', when so many of us will have been relying on government welfare payments for survival, along with the very real likelihood of no job to return to.

Overall, approximately 50% of hospitality/retail workers have been affected to date. These are the lower-income earners, working in cafes, restaurants, shops, etc., on zero contracts, or a part-time or casual basis. The demographic involved here is mainly young people or women, often lacking the necessary skills to be able to retrain to another occupation. And even if that were a possibility, they would be vying with thousands of others for (presumably) the relatively few positions on offer.

But before our (in this case I am referring to Australia) economy could even begin to recover, many of our industries - farming, mining, education, tourism - rely on exports which in turn have a positive effect on domestic economic growth and employment. So unless a global recovery occurs almost simultaneously, I can't see how any country's economy could be sustainable in isolation.

 

[goatwack]

I know Mondays are historically downers but Jesus

 

[ladyhawke]

I know Mondays are historically downers but Jesus

Gotta keep up the 'I don't Like Mondays' theme going.

 

[dionysus]

Gotta keep up the 'I don't Like Mondays' theme going.

tell me why

 

[goatwack]

tell me why

The week's just started and you're causing a ruckus

reported

 

[ladyhawke]

tell me why

I guess it is because with all the doom and destruction going on worldwide, I can't take much more, so the silicon chip inside my head is on overload.

 

[slotplayer]

Monday you say.

 

[ladyhawke]

Monday you say.

I haven't heard this for YEARS. In fact, I don't think I have listened to it since about 1968. Used to love it, but now it sounds so tinny, and the vocals so nasal-ly.

But the lyrics are spot on...

Monday morning seems so bad
My idiotic postings seem to nag me

Or...on a more personal level....

Monday morning seems so bad
Goatwack seems to nag me

Or even...

Monday morning seems so bad
Dionysus seems to nag me

Rinse and repeat....rinse and repeat....rinse and repeat...

Disclaimer: I love you guys, I really do. You are all awesome and you brighten my day with your bon mots. A little sunshine in an otherwise grey life.

I even love the Bear. Even though I am not, and never will be, his hunny. I mean, how can you compete with this? (And would you even want to? )

 

[snorky510238]

What exactly do you think will happen when we ease restrictions, not all at once, but keep enforcing social distancing and wear masks?

I think masks are a vital part of this whole ordeal for the next year, year and a half. We downplayed it at first simply because we didn't have enough but now that we are at a point that there are enough available it should be atleast encouraged to wear them out in public.

I hope a 2nd or 3rd wave will be handled better, could it be worse than how we've handled it now?

I can see the need for everyone and their respective country to return to normal ASAP but we are already seeing a consistent number of daily cases.

This is set to increase as the likes of Russia, India, Brazil, (most of South America I fear), Canada and parts of Africa amongst others start to regularly record a much higher number of daily cases.

Irrespective of whether a specific country’s daily cases has decreased, apart from China, very few countries have seen a large reduction.

The question you have to ask yourself, is given that we are still going to see x number of daily cases whilst in lockdown (and we can only surmise what these figures will be) will easing restrictions create the potential for an unnecessary increase in the daily total of new cases?

The answer has to be yes? It cannot aid a decrease that is for sure. Easing restrictions even with all PPE in place will still lead to an increase in cases I think. I mean you will have thousands of people who will not abide by it for one reason or another. Again, the two metres thing makes me smile it really does. Where is all the history of the extensive medical research that backs up this theory. “Oh well we just took an educated guess as the virus was new”. It is just an estimate as far as I am concerned and not one I am prepared to trust. I mean if a work colleague told you they felt unwell and they thought it may be the virus, how close to them would you be prepared to get? Would you be comfortable for the rest of the day at two metres? Let’s not forget surface contamination either, everyone seems to be overlooking that now.

You also have to look at the control a country has over it’s masses. When you look at the clip @bamberfishcake posted of the queue for food in Africa, you realise social distancing is not even at the front of their thoughts, despite being told a hundred times probably.

 

[Kroffe]

tell me why