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Corona virus - Covid 19 discussion

Our illustrious Home Secretary Priti Patel vows to stomp on crime during these turbulent times.

So far there's mention of cocaine being smuggled in face masks, and speeding fines.

But regardless, I tend to believe her. After all, this woman's known for bullying co-workers and juniors

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Nice to see our german friends protesting about this lockdown. Slowly europe is reacting like a america.

This is much more that just a virus. Its about restricting our freedom whilst telling us a second wave is due. If second wave is due a lockdown is utterly pointless as we all cram out at once when its lifted.

Never been one for riots or protests, but this will be the final straw for many. Just hope when all hell breaks lose the right people are targeted.

These mp's on full wages whilst everyone else that struggles, bankers, the bad wealthy like branson and the beckams and bonanza creators.... Wont be enough police to control the mayhem.

Balance of control been wrong for a long time.
 
Yes naturally everyone wants this to be over, and yes the uncertainty's annoying and unsettling.

Fact is the only ones that end up rioting were morons to begin with whilst seizing the opportunity to showcase their loutishness. I think most law-abiding people wouldn't even entertain the idea

Nor can I see mothers/ parents donning balaclavas and lobbing molotov cocktails through Boots because the Government's extended lockdown by another month

'Peaceful' protests and Social Media heckling may ramp up however, in time
 
Yes naturally everyone wants this to be over, and yes the uncertainty's annoying and unsettling.

Fact is the only ones that end up rioting were morons to begin with whilst seizing the opportunity to showcase their loutishness. I think most law-abiding people wouldn't even entertain the idea

Nor can I see mothers/ parents donning balaclavas and lobbing molotov cocktails through Boots because the Government's extended lockdown by another month

'Peaceful' protests and Social Media heckling may ramp up however, in time

Tbf nothing worth nicking from boots :laugh::laugh::laugh:
 
Shit UK death numbers again today.We are nowhere near getting on top of it and its as dangerous as
ever,they need to be very careful about changing lockdown rules, hate to think where we would
be if we hadnt locked down.
The daily death figures are a joke, they are miles behind and it makes it much harder to tell if we are past the peak.
Hospital beds are a better way to tell how things are going as they are up to date, the graph below is up to the 23rd

cx44.png
 
Same for the California beach story. That's in Orange County. (Florida also has an Orange County)
Look at the data for Orange County, California.

orange-county-ca.JPG
 
Due to Qld's very low rate of infection/deaths, the state is starting to re-open many activities, although its borders to other states still remain closed.

"Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk (My note: her surname is pronounced Pallashay for anyone wondering) announced that Queenslanders will be able to go for a drive, sit at the beach, have a picnic, visit a national park and shop for non-essential items from midnight on Friday. "

Source: the infamous Daily Mail, although I first saw this news on the ABC News24 channel.

So... does this imply that a second wave of infections is not expected? All Australian states/territories have imposed a punitive lock-down system, and this could be why Australia's infection/death figures are so low per capita of population.

BUT....there is a downside to lockdown, and that is:

"Infectious diseases spread via contact between infectious and susceptible people. In the absence of any control measures, an outbreak will grow as long as the average number of people infected by each infectious person is greater than one.

But when an outbreak is brought under control by social distancing and other measures, it’s possible only a small proportion of the population will have been infected and gained immunity."


As there is still uncertainty about whether or not the initial infection guarantees any immunity to COVID-19 due to not enough antibodies being generated, how long there will be restrictions/curtailment of our usual daily activities?

It has been estimated that in a worst case scenario, possibly until late 2021, which is a frightening prospect when considering the economic and financial impacts this would cause, as well as the damage to everyone's mental health.
 
IMO whether the daily death toll rises or falls should have no bearing on restrictions being lifted (unless there is solid proof the virus has weakened significantly).

The only figure you need to look at is the daily number of “new cases”. The reason I say this is because as long as that figure remains consistent (which it has for several weeks in the UK) then the potential for deaths has neither increased or decreased therefore no conclusions can be drawn.

To explain that more in-depth, figures for 4 weeks could show a consistent number of “new cases” daily but a vast drop in the daily death toll. This may lead to people thinking that is a sign to go back to “normal” only to find 4 weeks later we see a big increase in the daily death toll.

This could possibly be explained as, more people from the first count were in a fit and healthy state and therefore recovered whereas the second batch were more susceptible to succumbing to the virus.

The conclusion being that a few months is not a long enough period from which to pull stats and make definite judgements. The simple analysis of risk assessment is to remove or minimise the hazard in question. Would easing restrictions based on what we know to date satisfy that criteria?
 
IMO whether the daily death toll rises or falls should have no bearing on restrictions being lifted (unless there is solid proof the virus has weakened significantly).

The only figure you need to look at is the daily number of “new cases”. The reason I say this is because as long as that figure remains consistent (which it has for several weeks in the UK) then the potential for deaths has neither increased or decreased therefore no conclusions can be drawn.

To explain that more in-depth, figures for 4 weeks could show a consistent number of “new cases” daily but a vast drop in the daily death toll. This may lead to people thinking that is a sign to go back to “normal” only to find 4 weeks later we see a big increase in the daily death toll.

This could possibly be explained as, more people from the first count were in a fit and healthy state and therefore recovered whereas the second batch were more susceptible to succumbing to the virus.

The conclusion being that a few months is not a long enough period from which to pull stats and make definite judgements. The simple analysis of risk assessment is to remove or minimise the hazard in question. Would easing restrictions based on what we know to date satisfy that criteria?

Hard to place much on the death count: be it with the doctors certifying if Covid was 'suspected' to be the main contributory factor, the primary cause of etc, independent, but not the main factor: heavily reliant on all doctors in all parts of the country singing from the same hymn sheet and, with such a new disease, that's going to be hard.

Whatever it is, i wouldn't like to be the one making the decisions: helluva lot of balls to be juggling
 
I found a very interesting infograph, might come in handy for some individuals.

Protecting Scientific Integrity

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Sheldon Krimsky reviews Thomas O. McGarity and Wendy E. Wagner’s Bending Science: How Special Interests Corrupt Public Health Research.

"...scientists conducting their work in different sectors of society are faced with different social and political contexts, and they may not exercise the same autonomy to investigate the natural world and report on their findings. In the United States, for example, government scientists who are expected to submit papers for talks and publications may be required to submit their papers to be vetted by policy members of their agency. In turn, the policy members may censor the language and conclusions prior to publication or distribution. This practice is illustrated by the recent controversies over “political editing” of scientific documents on global warming."

The rights and responsibilities of government and industry scientists are not as clear as they are for academic scientists. And while considerable attention is paid to academic freedom and investigator autonomy within universities, there too scientists can exercise self-censorship when they wish to please an external funder who has a financial or political interest in the outcome of their research.

Bending Science explores the multifarious ways that science has been distorted when its goals and practices are superseded by profits, issues of liability, politics, and industrial competitiveness. The book is structured around six core themes: “Shaping Science” (the use of contract research to acquire support for preexisting views); “Hiding Science” (suppressing knowledge that politically or economically motivated funders dislike); “Attacking Science” (manufacturing uncertainty around sound scientific results); “Harassing Scientists” (using litigation to force scientists to defend their published results in court); “Packaging Science” (selecting scientists to reach a predetermined outcome); and “Spinning Science” (reinterpreting or falsely interpreting scientific results to meet non-scientific agendas). A wealth of both vignettes and historical cases illustrate these six themes.

The authors, both law professors at the University of Texas, contribute a unique legal and regulatory perspective on current trends that compromise the integrity of and the public trust in science. A notable discussion is the conflict between trade secrecy and the public’s right to know. The conflict becomes palpable when companies negotiate out-of-court tort settlements that block public access to discovery documents that may provide valuable knowledge about certain products’ occupational or public health dangers.

------------

Science is an amazing thing, without it we'd still be in the middle ages, but let's not kid ourselves that it operates in a bubble free of influence from government and the corporations that fund and oversee it.
 
Well aware that the lockdown is important and probably the only thing preventing devestating death numbers
but whether we like it or not it got to be eased before irreversable damage is caused the the economy and
our social structure,we are already in a position where there will be reccession worse than any in living memory
some are saying in 300 years.Very easy to say the lockdown must continue,but the flip side is what kind
of country will be left when its all over.
 
Well aware that the lockdown is important and probably the only thing preventing devestating death numbers
but whether we like it or not it got to be eased before irreversable damage is caused the the economy and
our social structure,we are already in a position where there will be reccession worse than any in living memory
some are saying in 300 years.Very easy to say the lockdown must continue,but the flip side is what kind
of country will be left when its all over.

I keep seeing people post stuff like this (everywhere), but without anything to say how they think the lockdown should be lifted.

I think most cities are seeing higher numbers of cars out and about so clearly something needs to be done, but if that should be a full lockdown, or easing, I'm not sure.

Drove past a park this afternoon where the council closed the car park around 3 weeks ago to stop people driving there. There must have been 30 cars parked up on grass verges close by the gate, that was late afternoon when it had started to rain, you could see there had been at least twice that many earlier from the spaces. The police should be giving out tickets to them, as when people are constantly flouting the rules, it makes a mockery of the current situation. If they aren't going to enforce the rules, then re-open the car parks ffs.

The knock on effect of this to the economy must be horrendous already, the leisure trade must be close to being devastated, but I can't see pubs etc being open till close to, or even after, Christmas. Same with sporting events. Garages must be losing a fortune, as must Supermarkets, imagine how much fun it will be a week before Christmas if social distancing is still in force, which I expect will be the case.
 
I have no answers, I agree that while there is a lockdown it should be enforced properly, been walking the
the dog in the park, almost as busy as this time last year, most were sticking to the rules but quite a few were
sunbathing and never moved while I was there.No police in sight.
At the moment most of us have is pretty easy with the government bailing us out during the lockdown
but that cant carry on forever and what happens when there are no jobs to go back to.
Anyway Boris is back tomorrow he will save us.
 
I have no answers, I agree that while there is a lockdown it should be enforced properly, been walking the
the dog in the park, almost as busy as this time last year, most were sticking to the rules but quite a few were
sunbathing and never moved while I was there.No police in sight.
At the moment most of us have is pretty easy with the government bailing us out during the lockdown
but that cant carry on forever and what happens when there are no jobs to go back to.
Anyway Boris is back tomorrow he will save us.

I think, on the whole, here at least, most people are taking notice, but those who aren't should be stopped. We have the highest number of cases per 100k population in the UK at the moment (Sunderland) and it's hardly surprising considering how many people I see ignoring the rules, pretty much every time I go to a shop I end up having a go at someone. Most people are fine, but there are quite a few who think the rules don't apply.

The lass next door to me was living at her bf's when I moved in. They've obviously been arguing or something as she's been staying here for 3/4 days then going back to his with her son, but she's been here about a week now, in the last 24 hours, her Mam has been and was here till about 11pm last night, her bf has been twice today, her Dad has been today, 2 other lads in cars have been and one other lass. Hardly following the rules. I get that if she's going through a break up she's probably upset and wants some support, but both her mam and dad are easily in their 60's, so all she's doing is putting them at risk.
 
Protecting Scientific Integrity

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


Sheldon Krimsky reviews Thomas O. McGarity and Wendy E. Wagner’s Bending Science: How Special Interests Corrupt Public Health Research.

"...scientists conducting their work in different sectors of society are faced with different social and political contexts, and they may not exercise the same autonomy to investigate the natural world and report on their findings. In the United States, for example, government scientists who are expected to submit papers for talks and publications may be required to submit their papers to be vetted by policy members of their agency. In turn, the policy members may censor the language and conclusions prior to publication or distribution. This practice is illustrated by the recent controversies over “political editing” of scientific documents on global warming."

The rights and responsibilities of government and industry scientists are not as clear as they are for academic scientists. And while considerable attention is paid to academic freedom and investigator autonomy within universities, there too scientists can exercise self-censorship when they wish to please an external funder who has a financial or political interest in the outcome of their research.

Bending Science explores the multifarious ways that science has been distorted when its goals and practices are superseded by profits, issues of liability, politics, and industrial competitiveness. The book is structured around six core themes: “Shaping Science” (the use of contract research to acquire support for preexisting views); “Hiding Science” (suppressing knowledge that politically or economically motivated funders dislike); “Attacking Science” (manufacturing uncertainty around sound scientific results); “Harassing Scientists” (using litigation to force scientists to defend their published results in court); “Packaging Science” (selecting scientists to reach a predetermined outcome); and “Spinning Science” (reinterpreting or falsely interpreting scientific results to meet non-scientific agendas). A wealth of both vignettes and historical cases illustrate these six themes.

The authors, both law professors at the University of Texas, contribute a unique legal and regulatory perspective on current trends that compromise the integrity of and the public trust in science. A notable discussion is the conflict between trade secrecy and the public’s right to know. The conflict becomes palpable when companies negotiate out-of-court tort settlements that block public access to discovery documents that may provide valuable knowledge about certain products’ occupational or public health dangers.

------------

Science is an amazing thing, without it we'd still be in the middle ages, but let's not kid ourselves that it operates in a bubble free of influence from government and the corporations that fund and oversee it.

Figured you would bite mack :cheerleader:
 
IMO whether the daily death toll rises or falls should have no bearing on restrictions being lifted (unless there is solid proof the virus has weakened significantly).

The only figure you need to look at is the daily number of “new cases”. The reason I say this is because as long as that figure remains consistent (which it has for several weeks in the UK) then the potential for deaths has neither increased or decreased therefore no conclusions can be drawn.

To explain that more in-depth, figures for 4 weeks could show a consistent number of “new cases” daily but a vast drop in the daily death toll. This may lead to people thinking that is a sign to go back to “normal” only to find 4 weeks later we see a big increase in the daily death toll.

This could possibly be explained as, more people from the first count were in a fit and healthy state and therefore recovered whereas the second batch were more susceptible to succumbing to the virus.

The conclusion being that a few months is not a long enough period from which to pull stats and make definite judgements. The simple analysis of risk assessment is to remove or minimise the hazard in question. Would easing restrictions based on what we know to date satisfy that criteria?

It also depends on the amount of tests being done. Don't forget that the vast majority of people getting the virus are going through a mild illness or are even asymptomatic. So the more tests you do on people with flu-like symptoms the more people you're going to find that have the infection, and if you blanket test a whole town you'll find a load of people that either had the infection but still have virus particles or asymptomatic carriers along with ill people.

At some point deaths have to go down when the most vulnerable have passed away. Otherwise the virus is getting stronger and we have another issue to worry about.

Basically what we have to look out for is how many people have to be admitted to hospital and end up in ICU.
 
Sky News penned a piece on Iceland earlier and their relative successes in trampling the curve

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They've also opted to quarantine any travellers upon arrival. Imagine for one moment our Government having the sense to do that!

Much smaller population of course, but also many more people tested, many coming forward 'just to be sure'

One gets the sense they have a more societal-based mindset than......some of our compatriots
 
Evening all.
Before I start, I won’t be responding to this.
it’s by no means to flame or encourage any further discussion.
It’s my stance, and that is all.
Iam not a racist, infact I abhor any kind of racism.
I also don’t blame a single Chinese person or the country for the virus.
a good friend of mine however is Chinese, we been mates a good 15 years now and agrees with my thoughts on the Chinese communist state... (another story)
My research and personal findings do indeed point to China, where else can the virus come from?
i want to say that’s not bore from a racist opinion of the good Chinese people... not one bit and I find it offensive people took it that way.
I am genuinely sorry anyone took offence, I don’t wish to hurt nor upset anyone on this forum.
I’ve met some great people, and I’d not want to lose that.
about my comment ‘some cultures are better than others’
I do stand by this as it’s economic and basic fact, Iam not saying the people from others cultures mean less than me, I’m saying on a whole the culture has issues and needs to be talked about and addressed, sadly due to fake racism nonsense certain cultures can’t be addressed or be helped to be made better.
im sorry if I’ve upset, triggered or made any fellow member feel belittled.
I won’t change my thoughts, not one bit.
but I promise to be more mindful perhaps regarding the rhetoric I use.
Should anyone wish to contact me about my previous post I’m open to any friendly dialogue via PM. I post as me, I’m no warrior of the keys.
I truly hope ALL of you are well.
And send my finest regards.
Ben.
 
Dont think there any definate trend in the UK, figures up and down like a yoyo, todays half of yesterdays.
They need a standard method of recording irrespective of the day of the week and including all deaths.,
otherwise the published figures are meaningless and of little help to those who have to make the big decisions,
although they probably have much more accurate data than we get.
Regarding the way forward I think we should be looking way at the South Korea is tackling it, they have very low and stable death rates which will buy them time which has to be the only way out of this,they are very hot on contact tracing using all possible methods of identifying possibly infected people even cctv and credit card transactions.With the surveliance in the uk that should be a doddle,one of the things we have plenty of.
 
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Obviously we'll see minor fluctuations in the figures for Covid-related deaths for the foreseeable, but with them now seemingly stabilizing after circa 2 months, I'd suspect a semblance of normality within the next two, and lockdowns to be eased

Some Social Distancing guidelines may remain, though that'll be curious to see how they're implemented post-Covid 1st Wave
 
What do you all think of this COVID safe app in Australia?

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A lot of countries are implementing similar things, as with Iceland mentioned earlier. If coming into contact with a Covid-carrier they insta-quarantine you :laugh:

But actually (probably) a good idea I would have thought. Only issues are Android compatibility problems and the classic security vulnerabilities where people can nab all your phone's information.

Those teething problems aside, it's tickety-boo
 
What do you all think of this COVID safe app in Australia?

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In principal, these apps seem to be useful.

But I personally have some concers about them. One is the obvious privacy issue, how the apps use and store data collected.

Another concern is the effectiveness. If installing an app is voluntary (like it most likely is/will be in most countries), then it would need a lot of installations to be effective.

Plus, there is always the issue with false positives and possible policy changes based on that (inaccurate) data.
 
A lot of countries are implementing similar things, as with Iceland mentioned earlier. If coming into contact with a Covid-carrier they insta-quarantine you :laugh:

But actually (probably) a good idea I would have thought. Only issues are Android compatibility problems and the classic security vulnerabilities where people can nab all your phone's information.

Those teething problems aside, it's tickety-boo

I won't download it as I don't go much places only to work which is only a 2 min walk and local grocery store :)
 
In principal, these apps seem to be useful.

But I personally have some concers about them. One is the obvious privacy issue, how the apps use and store data collected.

Another concern is the effectiveness. If installing an app is voluntary (like it most likely is/will be in most countries), then it would need a lot of installations to be effective.

Plus, there is always the issue with false positives and possible policy changes based on that (inaccurate) data.
Oh you just had to be a Negative Nancy didn't you
 
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"She hedged when Cooper asked if she’d be willing to spend nights on casino floors alongside other visitors. “What’s the purpose of that? First of all, I have a family,” she said. "

Yeah, im sure none of the visitors if it reopened would have a family.
:rolleyes:
 
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"She hedged when Cooper asked if she’d be willing to spend nights on casino floors alongside other visitors. “What’s the purpose of that? First of all, I have a family,” she said. "

Yeah, im sure none of the visitors if it reopened would have a family.
:rolleyes:
A lot of these big businesses are getting tetchy as of late and showing their true colours. As though it's an inconvenience to them, and them only.

Same as with the Dutch football clubs who were irked that not getting promoted is unfair etc
 
A lot of these big businesses are getting tetchy as of late and showing their true colours. As though it's an inconvenience to them, and them only.

Same as with the Dutch football clubs who were irked that not getting promoted is unfair etc
She seems really concerned about her friends who owns casinos the working people.

 
Where's @News Hound for Las Vegas news?;)

I was watching and reading up last night, The possibilities are every 2nd slot machine will be turned off or slots removed, Like %50 of tables in restaurants or some will be removed, buffets will be more full service and they desperately want to re open as they are the most profitable some of them, Their should be deals and maybe some removal of fees but don't be surprised of resort fees are still charged. It could be a year for everything to be fully open again as they are looking at a slow reopening with shows being the last to reopen.
 

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