Cheaters Being Outed by Poker Sites.....

[paul02085]

In the last few days 2 of the best known online poker players have been banned from many poker sites for playing with multiple accounts.

JJProdigy- had $180k taken from his account for playing under 2 names in the same tournament. He has subsequently been banned by Party and Pokerstars.

ZeeJustin- was found to have been playing large tournaments with 6 different accounts at the same time. All of his money in those accounts was confiscated and he was banned by Party and is under investigation by Stars.

There will be many more well known players exposed in the coming weeks i believe.

Kudos to the poker sites for trying to clean up the damage caused by these cheaters.

 

[jetset]

Do you have any more detail on these, Paul?

 

[largeeyes]

The JJProdigy situation has been detailed very heavily on the 2+2 forums. It's probably one if the most talked about episodes in the history of that forum(sorta like the Pirate here).


Edit: The ZeeJustin situation is detailed in the same place, MTT area.

 

[paul02085]

Jetset, go to

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This could have major repercussions on the Internet Gambling bill being discussed in US especially since one of the 2 kids is only 16 years old!! Not good i am afraid.

 

[jetset]

Thanks, guys!

 

[managra]

In the last few days 2 of the best known online poker players have been banned from many poker sites for playing with multiple accounts.

JJProdigy- had $180k taken from his account for playing under 2 names in the same tournament. He has subsequently been banned by Party and Pokerstars.

ZeeJustin- was found to have been playing large tournaments with 6 different accounts at the same time. All of his money in those accounts was confiscated and he was banned by Party and is under investigation by Stars.
There will be many more well known players exposed in the coming weeks i believe.

Kudos to the poker sites for trying to clean up the damage caused by these cheaters.

Thanks for posting this, Paul. I am really shocked. These are purportedly well-known players, so they must have been around for a while and playing large tournaments. One had $180K confiscated and presumably he didn't accumulate that overnight. Why did it take sites like Pokerstars and Party so long to find out he had six different accounts all with the same IPO???

I visited the 2+2 MOAT (Mother Of All Threads) and there are probably good morsels of info here and there buried in it but i can't wade my way through it.

If this has been going on undetected for so long involving quite a few big name online players, you can just imagine how much collusion goes undetected which is a bit more difficult to detect than a guy playing the same tournament with 6 different accounts.

 

[amandajm]

The Poker Rooms were apparently well aware for a good while and never stopped it. Thereby there will be more. Alot more.

 

[jetset]

Jetset, go to

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This could have major repercussions on the Internet Gambling bill being discussed in US especially since one of the 2 kids is only 16 years old!! Not good i am afraid.

Thanks again for this, Paul - it certainly is an interesting lead and I imagine all the networks will be on red alert and looking at their counter-measures again. The age of these guys is especially worrying, quite apart from their laissez faire attitude toward honesty.

 

[managra]

This scandal is really bugging me and i spent a lot of time mulling about it this evening. Just this evening i read an AP article about internet gambling in which Ayre from Bodog was quoted saying that there would be a lot of consolidations because smaller pokerrooms have a tough time surviving (not really a surprise for anyone to hear this) There's also a trend of going public. It might be tough to legally go after a pokerroom headquartered in Timbukto but quite easy once they are listed on a stock-exchange somewhere.

I suspect that the fall-out of this scandal will be much more stringent requirements for new players, such as mandatory ID documentation, and painful and slow withdrawals. And yes, it will play right in the hands of American legislators so keen on making online gambling illegal in the US. Not just out of fear of the money laundering but also the "laxity" of the online pokerrooms and the corrosive influence on minors who, as this scandal shows, pokerrooms have not been able to keep out, blablabla.

 

[winbig]

This could have major repercussions on the Internet Gambling bill being discussed in US especially since one of the 2 kids is only 16 years old!! Not good i am afraid.

16? Sheesh. I guess it's too much to ask for online poker rooms/casinos to ask for ID up front, just like if you were to go to a b&m casino and looked underage. Until that happens, online gambling in the usa is going to be at risk bigtime.


Being realistic though, I doubt there will be any "Internet Police" preventing online gambling in the USA. There are some states that already have laws in place against gambling online, but I have never heard of anyone getting arrested for it.

 

[jetset]

Good posts, Managra and Winbig. This underage thing is worrying and I think you're probably right - there's bound to be some tightening up in the wake of these incidents, and that is possibly going to impact on the genuine players.

 

[GrandMaster]

This could have major repercussions on the Internet Gambling bill being discussed in US especially since one of the 2 kids is only 16 years old!! Not good i am afraid.

That would be guy with the account for his grandmother, wouldn't it? He should have a fine career in white collar crime ahead of him.

I am not impressed by the poker room's failure to verify his age or to spot that several people were playing from the same IP address. Does anyone know what's going to happen to the money confiscated from these cheaters?

 

[winbig]

I am not impressed by the poker room's failure to verify his age or to spot that several people were playing from the same IP address. Does anyone know what's going to happen to the money confiscated from these cheaters?

I doubt they were dumb enough to play from the same IP address. I'm assuming they used proxies from the area they registered in to connect to the sites. Even so, how in the world did they cash out? Fake ID's? Maybe they used friend's addresses that were in on it for a cut of the profits.

If the one was 16, how in the world did he deposit? I'm sure you can get a checking account if you're under 18, but cannot legally get a credit card. If that's the case, I would assume the credit card company would be contacting the poker room(s) for their money back. If it was his parents card, same solution.

oops, I forgot about the prepaid credit cards. If he (and others) abuse it like this, we can kiss this method of depositing goodbye in the near future.

 

[managra]

Being realistic though, I doubt there will be any "Internet Police" preventing online gambling in the USA. There are some states that already have laws in place against gambling online, but I have never heard of anyone getting arrested for it.

What the proposed legislation is aiming at is making it impossible to deposit. Right now, Americans cannot use credit cards for online gambling. They intend to make it impossible to deposit via the likes of Neteller. If such legislation would pass, the online gambling world undoubtedly would devise workarounds. But until then it would be hard to gamble online and our basic freedoms are being restricted.

 

[sweetdenny]

Grandmaster

Just picked up on your question about what will happen to this money that was confiscated. Simple answer is that the site will keep it there is no way that it will be returned to players who were cheated out of this money. I have had money confiscated by prima and trying to get a reply on what happens to the money was extremely difficult. It will be interseting to see what this major site does with this money i believe it will be kept by the site. I can understand that to distibute it to all of the people that it was won/cheated from. I cannot see how playign 6 ids in multi tournaments would have netted him that amount and it was more likely he was hitting the cash tables controlling half the table and accumulating it that way. It is not fair or just for the site to keep the confiscated funds and they should either run a freeroll with that as the prize fund so the money goes back to the players or donate it to a charity. If they are not going to do either of these things they should return it to the player who defrauded it i know they acted dishonestly and are cheats but i would rather the money went to them than the site keeping it.

 

[jetset]

From m y reading of that big thread, it seemed to me that the confiscated monies were the prizes in the tourney, and that this was then given to the second placed guy with all other prizewinners bumped up one in terms of reward.

Perhaps I interpreted that incorrectly?

 

[sweetdenny]

My take on it

From reading the very large post as well it seems to be that all his money was confiscated and in Justins statement he has said that most of the money was won from stts. He was a high stakes player who created new accounts so people wouldnt know who he was and he could use this to his advantage. He states that he didnt collude by using his multiple accounts if this is the case i believe he should get to keep his money but this is unlikely to happen. Also he states that he knew what he was doing was unethical so why he had that much money sitting in his account at one time i do not know. Im sure this will have hurt him but if he was being as succesfull as is being stated his cashouts should more than be enough to help him get over his loss. There are a lot more chetas out there getting away with a lot worse. All the posters over there have been very quick to slate his actions even though they have never been affected by him. I often wonder how many would have the same morals if they were in his position and had the chance to rake in 100k a week. People are often to quick to judge and say it is un sportsmanlike but i believe the majority of these posters would do exactly the same. Please but yourself in his shoes before making your judgements.

 

[largeeyes]

Your post about not being stupid enough to use different IPs was actually incorrect. Buried god knows how many posts in there, he describes how he could open multiple clients if he clicked fast enough. So yes, every one of the logins was the same IP. Unbelievable someone would be that careless with that sort of money.

 

[paul02085]

From reading the very large post as well it seems to be that all his money was confiscated and in Justins statement he has said that most of the money was won from stts. He was a high stakes player who created new accounts so people wouldnt know who he was and he could use this to his advantage. He states that he didnt collude by using his multiple accounts if this is the case i believe he should get to keep his money but this is unlikely to happen. Also he states that he knew what he was doing was unethical so why he had that much money sitting in his account at one time i do not know. Im sure this will have hurt him but if he was being as succesfull as is being stated his cashouts should more than be enough to help him get over his loss. There are a lot more chetas out there getting away with a lot worse. All the posters over there have been very quick to slate his actions even though they have never been affected by him. I often wonder how many would have the same morals if they were in his position and had the chance to rake in 100k a week. People are often to quick to judge and say it is un sportsmanlike but i believe the majority of these posters would do exactly the same. Please but yourself in his shoes before making your judgements.

ZJ was found to be playing 6 buyins in a large multi table tournament and he admitted to doing it. He also said he knows "friends" who play 10 buyins in a single tournament. Wonder what else him and his "friends" do?

You say people are all over him even though they have not been affected by him? How do you know that? Did he tell you? Did you believe him?

This is nothing but cheating. There may be other ways and maybe better ways to cheat but it is cheating none the less. Rating the quality of the cheating by saying "There are alot more chetas out there getting away with alot worse" is really laughable.

The fact is that Party Poker has a rule that says if you get caught playing with multiple accounts you will have your account closed and all funds seized. Zee Justin knew this and now he pays the price.

The really sad part is it will hurt online poker.

 

[sweetdenny]

FAO PAUL

__________________
Firstly the ten buy in issue if people enter into a multi tournament with a field size of over 1k whichwe are talking about here the advantage gained is minimal. It is the same as ten good players entering the same tournament the advantage only comes into effect when the player gets seated at the same table and colludes to gain an advantage justin has stated when this happened he did not collude the poker room reviewing the hands in question would be able to determine if this were true or not. Until it is proven that he colluded ie we see the hand history im sure justin would post this if he were not locked out his account. If the poker room releases this information and can prove he was using this position to his advantage then this is a whole other matter. But do you think the poker room will post the hand history or allow justin acces to this so he can prove his case i think not .

Secondly the point about people being all over him just read all the posts over on the other forum justin was a high stakes player are you trying to tell me the 100 plus posts are from high stakes players again i think not. If you can tell me this is the case then i will withdraw my point and apologise for getting it wrong. But i will expect you to prove to me that the majority of the players posting are people entering 500 sit n gos and entering the 500 sunday multi regualrly. I think you will find that the majority of the posters are low and medium limit players who will not have had the opportunity to make thousands of pounds a day by breaking the rule. I also know for a fact that some of the posters slating him have not even played a cash game online. Yet the still feel able ot judge him.

Also justin has never denied he didnt know there was a risk involved however the sites confiscating his money all in one go is not on. The sites knew about it previously and allowed it to carry on without takign any action (they only took action once was brought up on forums) or even issuing a warning is wrong also.

You say this will hurt online poker this is laughable as you put it. If anything this will only help online poker as it has rasied player awairness of this happening and therefore players will report more issues helping the rooms to stamp it out. Secondly it will hopfully force the rooms into being stricter with there sign up procedure again this is good keeping children out and promoting safer gaming. Aslo by putting the id checks in before allwoing people signing up will speed up the withdrawal time which again is good for online gaming.

Therefore could you please explain exactly how this high profile case of a cheater being exposed in public has been bad for online gaming.

 

[audri]

Thanks Paul for the info but I bet its only the beginning theres proberly alot more out there

 

[pokeraddict]

Lee Jones made a post in that 2200 post thread that he nailed Zeejustin cheating in their MTT's as well. ZJ won the Sunday special about 2 months ago at Pokerstars for $137,000.

This is obviously a huge slap in the face that people have been blatantly cheating and flaunting it. Most poker rooms have always allowed multiple entries from the same IP. One can only imagine that this will change quickly and those husband and wives that enter the same MTT's better be very careful. This could become a banning frenzy if this starts to snowball and more big names are brought down.

I feel sure Zee isnt the last big name to get brought down by this type of scandal. Grab some popcorn and sit tight.

Party also shut down his affiliate account costing him (and surely players who signed up under him) who knows how much money.

 

[Casinomeister]

...Therefore could you please explain exactly how this high profile case of a cheater being exposed in public has been bad for online gaming.

One of the main reasons is that both online casinos and poker rooms have been illustrating how they have been blocking underage players out of their establishments - obviously this is failing in a very public way. It only takes a couple of high profile incidents to derail any argument that pro-gaming legislators may have. Main stream media eat this up in a big way.

If online gaming is going to be legalized (regulated) for Americans, we'll probably see some sort of ridiculous paranoid ID checking that Americans are so famous for; i.e. carding anyone who appears under the age of forty at the door of some club. This will probably stunt any sort of poker/casino growth in the US.

 

[whiterat1]

If you think that is bad this will have all online gamblers running to the hills.

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[NoMouthToScream]

This situation is clearly cheating, and blatantly admitting to cheating. Partypoker's action to confiscate the funds from the account holder was perfectly within their terms. However, PP should think of some way to give back the money to the people who played in the tournament. In the end, it's basically the people who play who regulate how the games are played. If you want an honest game, report all the possible methods that people are using to cheat. Partypoker gets their rake regardless of how the games are won or loss.