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Casino is asking me for "notarized ID"

Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Location
Amsterdam
Hello,

Today I encounterd something weird wich I never have seen before, this online casino does not accept a scanned copie of my ID card but actually wants me to send in a "hard copy" in other words "physical evidence" to there post adres via the postmail, wich is in the Philippines.

This is what they wrote to me:

We have received the document you sent and we would like to kindly advise you that we are requesting for a hard copy of your notarized ID sent to our postal address.

Once we have received the said document, only then will we be able to check on your withdrawal request.

So is this a normal procedure because I have no clue what to do now, im not going to send in my actual ID card to them so all they could receive is a copy made with a scanner, wich is the same as the ID scan I already send them.
 
This is a common procedure if you have played at a Playtech White label casino. I think it stinks.

What casino is this?
 
Yeah... I'm also interested to know the name of the casino?

I think that in order to receive an informed response you will probably have to tell us what casino this is first.
 
Its Euro Max Play Casino, but what I dont get is that there sistercasinos; 7 Regal, Del Rio and Winner dont have this procedure, in fact I never had this request before and I played allot of casinos.

But does this mean they request my plastic ID card or just a printed copy of it ?
 
They are not accredited here and they are known for this kind of trick. Winner affiliates have a rep here!

It was a long time ago he logged in but he will probably get a notification if you send him a PM.
 
Ok but what do I ask of him ?

And what do you mean by trick, that does sound bad.

You can ask why they want a notarized doc now, when they have your details before. And yes, I call it a trick when they don't allow players to email pictures of their ID instead. It's as they want that players can't meet their requests.
 
Hello,

Today I encounterd something weird wich I never have seen before, this online casino does not accept a scanned copie of my ID card but actually wants me to send in a "hard copy" in other words "physical evidence" to there post adres via the postmail, wich is in the Philippines.

This is what they wrote to me:

We have received the document you sent and we would like to kindly advise you that we are requesting for a hard copy of your notarized ID sent to our postal address.

Once we have received the said document, only then will we be able to check on your withdrawal request.

So is this a normal procedure because I have no clue what to do now, im not going to send in my actual ID card to them so all they could receive is a copy made with a scanner, wich is the same as the ID scan I already send them.

This means you have to send the casino a physical document (not a "virtual doc." like the one you sent by e-mail).
In this case, you have to go to a Notary, ask for a notarized copy of your ID card and send the respective paper sheet issued by the Notary (the notarized copy, with a "white stamp" on it) to the casino postal address, by post mail (inside an envelope).

If I may suggest, you'd better not to do that with the casino you mentioned, because besides their "not accredited" condition here at CM, the destination to send such an important document being Philippines is something really untrustworthy and scary, actually.

I can't see this kind of procedure otherwise as to be meant to discourage the players to claim their winnings, sorry to say.
 
That does suprises me because I had no problems at all with cashin out at casino Del Rio and other sister casinos of them, isnt that strange ?

No... Del Rio is on the No Can Do List here while Winner isn't. While these casinos are all part of the same group IMO you'd be better off looking at them individually.
 
That does suprises me because I had no problems at all with cashin out at casino Del Rio and other sister casinos of them, isnt that strange ?

Its the risk you take by playing at non-accredited or no-can-do casinos.

You've been around long enough to know the pitfalls, so its tough to have sympathy for you.

The whole thing is a ruse to make you play back your winnings and it stinks (unless of course there is a legitimate reason I.e. they think your ID is fake etc)
 
Ok I didnt know that, then I learned something new today.

So this money they still own me, should I even bother geting them that ID file or is this just a scam and they wont pay ?

Im wondering if any other people have cashed out there because the casino is up and running for some time already.
 
Ok I didnt know that, then I learned something new today.

So this money they still own me, should I even bother geting them that ID file or is this just a scam and they wont pay ?

Im wondering if any other people have cashed out there because the casino is up and running for some time already.

Only you can answer that. If you put in $25 and are cashing out $75, probably not worth it. If you put in a $100 and are cashing out $1500 then yes, it's probably worth trying to figure out some type of solution. I would definately try the rep, it can't hurt.

I hate hearing stories like this. But I also don't understand when there are so many accredited casinos why people persist in playing at ones that are known to have issues. Hope you get it resolved.
 
It's usually something they pull when the withdrawal is too much for the player to just walk away. It also seems very odd that they don't have an office where they are actually licensed to deal with such sensitive documents. It really shows what a sham some of these licenses are when a casino appears to have no actual presence in the country that issued the license.

The Philippines has had a bad reputation for looking after sensitive material, but the government there are trying to improve things. Recently, Neteller eased it's stance on the Philippines as a "hot bed of fraudsters" and seems to be accepting customers, even though with limited services and certainly no gambling transactions.

If the document actually reaches the Playtech building, it should be safe, it's one of the most secure business premises in Manila. The worry is related to the risk of interception in transit.

It is similar to the situation in India where call centres are the source of significant data leaks. The government sees this as a national security issue as if not controlled, it will kill the Indian call centre industry as customers already don't trust that their personal data is secure, so incidents that prove them right are disastrous. Penalties are pretty severe if caught, but the problem is doing the catching.

There are also risks in emailing the usual scanned copy to the casino, this too can be used in much the same way as an intercepted postal copy.

So far, I have not seen any incident that can be traced to a document having been stolen from Playtech's verification centre in Manila. If such a thing did happen, the embarrassment to Playtech, a public listed company in London, would force them to change this procedure.

They may even be forced to change this procedure for UK players at least within the next couple of years, or stay out of the UK market altogether.
 
Thank you for your response and this information, I never expirienced anything like this and that was also the reason why I tought this would be a scam or that they dont want to pay me. The only thing that I want to know is if its normal to send such documents and if you guys would do it, its a amount of 154 euros wich is allot for me but if the case is that they want to fraud my ID then im not going to do it ofcourse. I read your warnings but I still dont know for sure if anything bad is going to happen for sure.

The exact adress they gave me is:

ID Verification
14/F Yuchengco Tower 1,
RCBC Plaza, 6819 Ayala,
Makati City 1200,
Philippines
 
Thank you for your response and this information, I never expirienced anything like this and that was also the reason why I tought this would be a scam or that they dont want to pay me. The only thing that I want to know is if its normal to send such documents and if you guys would do it, its a amount of 154 euros wich is allot for me but if the case is that they want to fraud my ID then im not going to do it ofcourse. I read your warnings but I still dont know for sure if anything bad is going to happen for sure.

The exact adress they gave me is:

ID Verification
14/F Yuchengco Tower 1,
RCBC Plaza, 6819 Ayala,
Makati City 1200,
Philippines

That's them, Paragon International Customer Care, 100% owned subsidiary of Playtech. If anything does turn bad, you can hold Playtech responsible under EU law. Here in the UK, it has been made quite clear that companies that outsource our data to companies outside the EU cannot duck their responsibilities under UK data protection laws, be that India (the more popular outsource destination) or somewhere more exotic.

That is also a very secure building (once your data gets there). Many countries have their embassy functions there, and this involves the secure handling and safekeeping of some very sensitive data indeed.

Even if a white label Playtech said send the documents to a more local office, all they do is post it to Manila in any case (one even admitted it, saying that that's where it was handled, but that it was wrong to ask EU players to send it direct). They don't seem to understand the issue, it's not about HOW it ends up there, the worry is WHERE it ends up, a country that seems at odds with casinos targeting the "Western World", and a country where online gambling is deemed illegal.

There are worse places to send your documents to though, play at the Virtual Group, and they will end up in Costa Rica or Panama, maybe even Belize.

For Playtech, being a company listed in London, it is in their interests for nothing shady to happen to documents sent by players to their chosen verification centre in Manila. Virtual Group, on the other hand, only have to fear the wrath of the authorities in Costa Rica, Panama, or Belize if the documents from a player get mishandled.

Although there have been leaks of player data from casinos, they seem to have happened at their support offices, and from casinos run on a small budget licensed in questionable locations.

The post here in the UK isn't safe either, many items get lifted from sorting offices because the Royal Mail have been lax in vetting and supervising staff, so the problem is not unique to places like the Philippines.

Many of our risk assessments of such places may be wrong. We mostly get our idea of risk based on what the banks say, and unfortunately for the Philippines, this has been rather negative until recently.

I recall Neteller being asked why they had banned customers from the Philippines even for non gambling transactions. Apart from the obvious reason for not offering gambling transactions to customers in the Philippines, they worried that the country's policing of finance was too lax, and thus presented too high a risk of fraud (mostly money laundering). A change of heart indicates that things in the Philippines are going in the right direction, and these new business parks (see address above) are as secure as any in Europe, far removed from the traditional image of roughly built "shacks" serving as business premises that some might have.

The main worry for players should be WHY they are being asked this. A genuine request, or a stalling tactic from a casino that thinks someone is an "advantage player", but has not broken any terms, so they want to make getting paid as hard as possible as a deterrent.
 
That's them, Paragon International Customer Care, 100% owned subsidiary of Playtech. If anything does turn bad, you can hold Playtech responsible under EU law. Here in the UK, it has been made quite clear that companies that outsource our data to companies outside the EU cannot duck their responsibilities under UK data protection laws, be that India (the more popular outsource destination) or somewhere more exotic.

That is also a very secure building (once your data gets there). Many countries have their embassy functions there, and this involves the secure handling and safekeeping of some very sensitive data indeed.

Even if a white label Playtech said send the documents to a more local office, all they do is post it to Manila in any case (one even admitted it, saying that that's where it was handled, but that it was wrong to ask EU players to send it direct). They don't seem to understand the issue, it's not about HOW it ends up there, the worry is WHERE it ends up, a country that seems at odds with casinos targeting the "Western World", and a country where online gambling is deemed illegal.

There are worse places to send your documents to though, play at the Virtual Group, and they will end up in Costa Rica or Panama, maybe even Belize.

For Playtech, being a company listed in London, it is in their interests for nothing shady to happen to documents sent by players to their chosen verification centre in Manila. Virtual Group, on the other hand, only have to fear the wrath of the authorities in Costa Rica, Panama, or Belize if the documents from a player get mishandled.

Although there have been leaks of player data from casinos, they seem to have happened at their support offices, and from casinos run on a small budget licensed in questionable locations.

The post here in the UK isn't safe either, many items get lifted from sorting offices because the Royal Mail have been lax in vetting and supervising staff, so the problem is not unique to places like the Philippines.

Many of our risk assessments of such places may be wrong. We mostly get our idea of risk based on what the banks say, and unfortunately for the Philippines, this has been rather negative until recently.

I recall Neteller being asked why they had banned customers from the Philippines even for non gambling transactions. Apart from the obvious reason for not offering gambling transactions to customers in the Philippines, they worried that the country's policing of finance was too lax, and thus presented too high a risk of fraud (mostly money laundering). A change of heart indicates that things in the Philippines are going in the right direction, and these new business parks (see address above) are as secure as any in Europe, far removed from the traditional image of roughly built "shacks" serving as business premises that some might have.

The main worry for players should be WHY they are being asked this. A genuine request, or a stalling tactic from a casino that thinks someone is an "advantage player", but has not broken any terms, so they want to make getting paid as hard as possible as a deterrent.

This is a Playtech special for big winners. Not satisfied with 96-hour pending many impose, a big winner will be asked to teleport himself to some third-world address along with a USB stick holding his DNA string, provide a retinal scan and be accompanied by an MP or preferably the Prime Minister of his/her home country.
I think we should refer the OP to the Vernons or BetVictor? thread where a chap won over 70k and had to jump through hoops to get paid. I see nowt's changed.....:mad:
 
yup its certainly playtech special. Been there done that. What i dont understand is why european customers have to send their id to philippines, which is not even properly regulated regarding the safe handling of important documents. I can understand the requests , even though i don't like it but the place to send the documents for EU customers should reside within european union, not philippines.
 
yup its certainly playtech special. Been there done that. What i dont understand is why european customers have to send their id to philippines, which is not even properly regulated regarding the safe handling of important documents. I can understand the requests , even though i don't like it but the place to send the documents for EU customers should reside within european union, not philippines.

It should, but it turns out that all they do where they offer an EU address is then forward them to Manila for verification. This is the problem, everything is actually run from the Philippines, they have no presence other than the servers and a tiny "maildrop" office within the EU.

I also find the EU governments' inaction over this annoying. Passport scans, some notarised, are all being stored and handled in the Philippines, and as players we have no choice as the request to send something to Manila only comes when a very significant win is outstanding. Of course players are going to do it, no matter how reluctantly, if there is 70K that they are never going to see until they do.

If the risk is deemed too high, the governments should speak out. Playtech is listed in London, and so the UK government can put a stop to this practice in an instant if they felt it threatened national security (passports). I expect they don't because the UK embassy to the Philippines is probably in that same building, or it's twin.
 
There actually is not even a drop office for european customers. Its only for UK customers. Thats what i was told when i was asked for the notarized documents on vernons.
 
There actually is not even a drop office for european customers. Its only for UK customers. Thats what i was told when i was asked for the notarized documents on vernons.

What this reveals is that places like "Vernon's casino" are not actually UK companies at all. They are companies based in the Philippines that have licensed the brand of Vernons in order to lend a veneer of respectability to their casino. They have this UK office, but this seems only to be a forwarding address. They also have no EU address at all.

If something goes wrong, and a player gets the authorities involved, they may be in for a shock, and I mean the AUTHORITIES. I don't think they have a clue that this arrangement exists where what it a UK listed company is running casinos sporting well known UK brands out of offices in the Philippines, and that vast numbers of UK and EU driving licenses, utility bills, and even passports are on file in a Manila business park (most would be the bog standard scans via email, but they would be "clear" enough for misuse, else the casinos would have rejected them).

The UK authorities certainly expect that players' details are verified, but I expect they also expect this information to be processed and stored in a country considered compliant with EU data protection procedures.
 
I think if the player wants their money, then they really have no choice but to comply.

As it's been said, there's no evidence of data leaks from that company.

It does seem strange for such a small amount, but we've seen that before too. It could be a stalling technique, hoping you will play back your win, or just not bother for a relatively small amount.

If you don't comply, it will be likely be viewed as suspicious, and could lead to the same request at other Playtechs, with you account being flagged as "suspicious" in the database they sometimes deny having.
 
I think we covered this some years back , maybe one of the old gang will remember. A notorized doc. is easy , just present your ID and form you wish to sign and have notorized , it just proves with the seal (stamp) that you have made this form a legal doc. This could be different in other countries , ect , just speaking as a US Notory myself.

It does cut down on fraud and I can understand a casino's point in doing so, cause if your not the person on that ID , no right minded Notory will afix his/ her seal on any document , the risk is to high as a notory has to be bonded and appointed by a Goverment /State / Local county official.

The cost should not be no more than 1.00 per sheet, most do not charge and if you go to your bank , there is usually no cost at all.

Laurie
 
I think we covered this some years back , maybe one of the old gang will remember. A notorized doc. is easy , just present your ID and form you wish to sign and have notorized , it just proves with the seal (stamp) that you have made this form a legal doc. This could be different in other countries , ect , just speaking as a US Notory myself.

It does cut down on fraud and I can understand a casino's point in doing so, cause if your not the person on that ID , no right minded Notory will afix his/ her seal on any document , the risk is to high as a notory has to be bonded and appointed by a Goverment /State / Local county official.

The cost should not be no more than 1.00 per sheet, most do not charge and if you go to your bank , there is usually no cost at all.

Laurie

This simple and cheap procedure is hard to find for some. Someone earlier struggled to get it done for less than £150, and took so long searching among other things the casino decided they were guilty even without the documents.

The problem depends on how you look. If you ask solicitors offices, they will quote the high fees and will not volunteer the information that you might be able to get it done much cheaper elsewhere. It seems one has to find a notary that is "freelance", rather than being part of a solicitor's practice. Here the fee would be around £5 per document. It's probably not so easy getting this done by the bank any longer because many have done away with branches with local managers to big call centres and branches that are really there to sell you stuff when you visit to pay money in.
 
To have something notarized here is not very cheap. All solicitors can become notaries, but some don't go to the expense of purchasing the actual seal. Private ones usually charge MORE than lawyers here, with $100 being an average kind of price.

There is a certified true copy that is a sworn affidavit as well, much cheaper, and most bank main branches would have one here. I think such a service is available at the post office in the UK if memory serves me correctly.

No idea of the costs in the Netherlands.
 
Wow , that much to notorize a document, that is insane, I hardly ever charge.
It seems to me that one in another country could go to their local Court House , Deed Recording offices and find someone who wil do this for a much cheaper rate .

These casinos expecting this from players outside the US should not expect a player to pay such a sum , it is outrageous and is taking advantage of the player.

I had no idea on the notory charges outside of the US , just crazy in my op.

I still see the notorized docs as being a good thing when warrented to prevent fraud , only when the fee is min. or at no charge , outside of that the fee should be reimbursed to players by the casino if over a certain amount.

If a casino is out to screw you , they will , it will be the better casinos that will work with you and offer to help cover high fees !

A happy player is a happy depositor and thats what good casinos thrive upon unless you get involved with a hit and run casino, then your just SOL:(

Laurie
 
To have something notarized here is not very cheap. All solicitors can become notaries, but some don't go to the expense of purchasing the actual seal. Private ones usually charge MORE than lawyers here, with $100 being an average kind of price.

There is a certified true copy that is a sworn affidavit as well, much cheaper, and most bank main branches would have one here. I think such a service is available at the post office in the UK if memory serves me correctly.

No idea of the costs in the Netherlands.

That doesn't seem any different really, except that it is cheaper.

For the purposes of the casino, which is to be sure that the document they have been given is a "true copy" of an original document, rather than a forgery, this should be enough. As someone else said, full Notary fees are high because such a service is meant for high value matters, such as a document covering a business transaction worth millions of dollars. In the world of casinos, only the big network progressives have this kind of value.

So, have these casinos discovered that fraudsters have been ripping them off with fake presentations of "a certified true copy that is a sworn affidavit "?
 

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