Captaincookscasino effectively stolen my money...

[Gouldster]

Hey all, was directed here for help from a poker forum i post on. if anyone can give me advice it would be much appreciated...



So this is a bit of a long story but I'll try to keep it short.

I loves the slots, and signed up for some CD thing i got through the post: £500 free, keep what you win up to £150, that sort of thing. I know they're pretty much a scam, but. like I say, ilove the slots...

I won a bit, and had to deposit to claim winnings. So I used a pay as you go credit card to deposit, cos its a shady looking site. Captaincookscasino.com or something.

The pay as you go credit card is one I got for my missus a long time ago, she is the cardholder, but it is my account. Like to sign in and check balance and stuff is all my details, but her name on the front of card.

The casino account is in my name, and I guess you can see where this is going. Basically, I cleared the bonus and everything, which was well difficult and a complete scam. You have to wager 30x the amount of the bonus (£150) before you can cash out ANYTHING. Even the deposit you made.

But yeah, I actually won £1000, which I wanted to cash out to my bank. Cashed it out all fine.

This is all over about a week period.

today i get this email



According to our records, a credit / debit card registered on your account is not in your name. As per our terms and conditions, any winnings obtained from a credit card purchase which is not in the name of the account holder will be void.



Please click on the link below for the Terms and Conditions.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

As per the Terms and Conditions:

"9. If the Credit Card or E-wallet used to deposit and/or withdraw funds is not in the name of the individual registered on the Casino account, then all winnings will be void."



The cashin is void and a check will be sent out in the name of the credit card holder.



Please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any questions or require any further assistance.



Kind Regards,



Rhys

Casino Risk Management.


SO the question is, am i screwed out of the grand?

I have emailed them back saying the card is actually registered to me and my missus is just the cardholder etc. And sent them a screenshot of the account page with my name and address and stuff. But the wording on their terms and conditions is kinda vague to me. Just says if it is "not in the name..."

As far as I'm aware I'm perfectly entitled to use the card. Whatsmore I've used the card loads of times on other sites, such as pokerstars, fulltilt, coral and bingo liner UK with no problems. also seems a little bit dodgy that they were quite happy to sit on the deposit for about a week and only mentioned this when i won and tried to cash out...

So if any legal minds out there can wanna give their opinion, it would be much appreciated.

Or failing that, who do I actually complain to about this sort of stuff?

 

[RedAndi]

Pretty sure that is a T & C for just about every casino (at least that I have joined). Whatever you pay with has to have your own name on it, period. Fraud/Theft prevention being the reason I am sure. Gift cards would be an exception as they are one shot deals and have no registered payer name.

I am sure more experienced players will chime in and maybe have better info for you, but I think you are screwed.

The line that throws me off is that "a check will be issued to the name on the card". Not real clear on what they mean by that.

Also a question for you. When you used the card at other places were you able to cash out with no issue? Do some casinos allow CC's with a different name on them if you clear it with them prior to any transactions?

 

[Jasminebed]

Well, I think that credit cards need to be in your name is a standard term at most casinos. That would apply even for husband and wife. It is very important to read the terms and conditions when joining an online casino.

I can't even have someone else go and put funds on my prepaid card!

Looks like they will send a cheque to the missus for the deposit amount, make sure the address details they have are correct.

You might consider sending a copy of your marriage licence and a signed letter from your wife indicating that you had authority to use the card. I doubt this will get your winnings, but might clear matters up so you don't end up on a blacklist as a fraudster.

CasinoRewards has a rep here, you might contact them for advice.

 

[Gouldster]

Hey Redandi,

I think the "check is in the post..." line is in reference to the original £50 deposit.

With the cashout thing, I've never cashed out to the card itself, becuase it's a mastercard. But I;ve cashed out to my bank by a wire after having deposited with the card.

I mean my problem is with the wording in their terms and conditions, doesn;t say the casino account holder must be the name that appears on the card. Simply that the card must be in the name of the casino account holder. The card is registered to me, and is therefore, in my name.

I dunno, I guess you could say I'm stupid for not studying the T&Cs. But the whole thing has me very annoyed.

 

[takethemoney]

The problem you have and the reason the casinos are this way is because if your Girlfriend, or whomever's card you borrowed were to come forward at a later date and dispute the charge, the casino would have some explaining to do and could not fight the chargeback.

 

[RedAndi]

No you're not stupid.
I am sure most have run into issues with T & C at some point. You just have to be super careful when it comes to the T & C as we all know most casinos will go to great lengths to find ways to avoid paying due to the minutest details within them.

I would try to PM the rep like jasmine (I think it was jas) suggested. Worth a shot to talk to them about the card holder name thing. Good Luck!

 

[Gouldster]

thanks all,

yeah i posted this message to their rep before I put it on here. Still awaiting a reply from the casino themselves actually.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Hey Redandi,

I think the "check is in the post..." line is in reference to the original £50 deposit.

With the cashout thing, I've never cashed out to the card itself, becuase it's a mastercard. But I;ve cashed out to my bank by a wire after having deposited with the card.

I mean my problem is with the wording in their terms and conditions, doesn;t say the casino account holder must be the name that appears on the card. Simply that the card must be in the name of the casino account holder. The card is registered to me, and is therefore, in my name.

I dunno, I guess you could say I'm stupid for not studying the T&Cs. But the whole thing has me very annoyed.

This looks very odd to me, so no doubt it looks odd to the casino. I know that credit card accounts can be set up with more than one cardholder, but what is odd in THIS case is that although YOU have the account registered in YOUR name, the ONLY card on it belongs to your WIFE

The reason you have not had this trouble before is because you have been LUCKY. When a casino gets a NEW player, they run enhanced checks, and this is how they picked up on the card. When they took the money, it probably had your wife's name attached to it as a reference, which did NOT tally with the name on your casino account.

As with insurance companies, they look for an excuse NOT to pay, especially on a sign-up bonus, "common sense" has little to do with it, the terms allow them not to pay the winnings.

You should either have got yourself a card on this account, or had the casino account registered to your WIFE (with her permission of course), and played it jointly.

You should tidy up your card affairs BEFORE you run into this problem again, and remember to KEEP spent prepaid cards for quite a while after using them up, because some casinos ask the near impossible, a picture of back & front of a prepaid card long since used up and thrown away. It saves a lot of trouble to simply have this "in stock", just to surprise them

 

[RedAndi]

You should tidy up your card affairs BEFORE you run into this problem again, and remember to KEEP spent prepaid cards for quite a while after using them up, because some casinos ask the near impossible, a picture of back & front of a prepaid card long since used up and thrown away. It saves a lot of trouble to simply have this "in stock", just to surprise them

I keep them all AND I sharpie on each one the casino initials and the date I used it at said casino .

 

[Gouldster]

Hey,

yeah its not like a throwaway card. i dunno, its tuxedo-eccount one. you top it up in shops and stuff. when i joined up i set myself as the account holder, with my wife - my then girlfriend as the named cardholder.

the reason i got it for her was she never had a bank account as she was new to the uk. but then after she got a bank account she never used it. so i kept it for using online.

i dunno, as far as im aware, as the account holder i can use the card. its my name and address on the account page when you check online. and my details to log in. plus the card is linked to my paypal account with no problems, and if i remember correctly when buying goods online ive had to type my name in as billing info with it.

as far as i can see there's no issue of fraud here. they just think i didnt comply with the T&Cs... I think i did! I have contacted tuxedo tho, to make 100% sure i am correct in thinkin i can use the card.

anyway, i guess ill get some replies to my emails tomorrow. I will keep you informed.

Thanks for the imput guys

if nothing else, i'll be reading those terms and conditions next time

 

[vinylweatherman]

Hey,

yeah its not like a throwaway card. i dunno, its tuxedo-eccount one. you top it up in shops and stuff. when i joined up i set myself as the account holder, with my wife - my then girlfriend as the named cardholder.

the reason i got it for her was she never had a bank account as she was new to the uk. but then after she got a bank account she never used it. so i kept it for using online.

i dunno, as far as im aware, as the account holder i can use the card. its my name and address on the account page when you check online. and my details to log in. plus the card is linked to my paypal account with no problems, and if i remember correctly when buying goods online ive had to type my name in as billing info with it.

as far as i can see there's no issue of fraud here. they just think i didnt comply with the T&Cs... I think i did! I have contacted tuxedo tho, to make 100% sure i am correct in thinkin i can use the card.

anyway, i guess ill get some replies to my emails tomorrow. I will keep you informed.

Thanks for the imput guys

if nothing else, i'll be reading those terms and conditions next time

Strictly speaking, you are GIFTING your money to your wife to use. It's HER card, even though YOU set it up, and YOU funded it. There is no way the casino can tell from their end that this is OK. Tuxedo themselves may even think that although YOU registered the account, only your WIFE should be using the card.

Retailers tend to be less fussy when it comes to husband and wife sharing the same card, but casinos are REALLY tight on this. They are not going to accept your evidence that you can log in, show a screenshot with your details on the statement page, etc. After all, THEY face paying out £1000, and they don't want to if they can get out of it.
Think of casinos as you would an insurance company. Neither WANT to pay out a fortune, and will NOT do so if you have violated the "smallprint". Look at the scandal of critical illness insurance policies, where companies have declined to pay based on a visit to the doctor for "toothache", often as a CHILD, simply because you didn't declare it when applying, and are now dying of cancer. Payment has to be WRUNG out of them through the ombudsman, and it is sometimes the case with casinos, they MAY pay when a complaint is taken to an "ombudsman", such as eCogra. Crucial will be the reply that you get from Tuxedo. IF they say you should NOT have been using the card, you are pretty much screwed, if they say you CAN though, pursue the issue.

The card sounds similar to the Net+ card, and I am sure that ONLY the Neteller account holder is SUPPOSED to be using it, even though "couples" probably share these online.

 

[baabaa006]

I think you should get paid the full amount. If the casino wants to be active in stopping fraud/money laundering then wouldn't it be more valid to stop the deposit in the first place.

"9. If the Credit Card or E-wallet used to deposit and/or withdraw funds is not in the name of the individual registered on the Casino account, then all winnings will be void."

Is CaptainCooks casino now going to refund all deposits made by individual's with mismatch credit cards?

I'm sure they would have let you keep depositing for as long as you could with that very same card (until you wanted to withdraw).

 

[Gouldster]

thats my issue. this should have been picked up and the deposit request rejected or whatever you call it...

plus captain cooks is like part of a few casinos isnt it? with casino reward i think i got membership to 4 or 5 of them. sure i woulda deposited with this card one those also... cant be certain though.

still no reply from them, although their rep contactged me last night and said she would look into it.

 

[Gouldster]

Strictly speaking, you are GIFTING your money to your wife to use. It's HER card, even though YOU set it up, and YOU funded it. There is no way the casino can tell from their end that this is OK. Tuxedo themselves may even think that although YOU registered the account, only your WIFE should be using the card.

Retailers tend to be less fussy when it comes to husband and wife sharing the same card, but casinos are REALLY tight on this. They are not going to accept your evidence that you can log in, show a screenshot with your details on the statement page, etc. After all, THEY face paying out £1000, and they don't want to if they can get out of it.
Think of casinos as you would an insurance company. Neither WANT to pay out a fortune, and will NOT do so if you have violated the "smallprint". Look at the scandal of critical illness insurance policies, where companies have declined to pay based on a visit to the doctor for "toothache", often as a CHILD, simply because you didn't declare it when applying, and are now dying of cancer. Payment has to be WRUNG out of them through the ombudsman, and it is sometimes the case with casinos, they MAY pay when a complaint is taken to an "ombudsman", such as eCogra. Crucial will be the reply that you get from Tuxedo. IF they say you should NOT have been using the card, you are pretty much screwed, if they say you CAN though, pursue the issue.

The card sounds similar to the Net+ card, and I am sure that ONLY the Neteller account holder is SUPPOSED to be using it, even though "couples" probably share these online.

So i spoke to the people at Tuxedo today explained the whole situation and they said i am fine to use the card. They said the account is mine and the card is therefore mine.

Ive still heard nothing back from the casino or their rep, so I'm at a bit of a loss as to what to do now.

I would hazard a guess they will simply say that i breached the T&Cs. But I dont think I have. All seems to hang on their definition of the card being "in the name of..." the casino account holder.

Am I best to try and give them a call? Or simply wait for them to get back to me?

Thanks guys

 

[Jasminebed]

Gouldster, it might be best if you got Tuxedo to confirm in writing that it is your account to use.

 

[Gouldster]

Hey jasmine,

Thanks. Yeah the gentlemen I spoke to said I could simply print off the pages from the account, the statement shows the payment to the casino from the deposit, with my name and the account number at the top.

I emailed them a minute ago with the page attached. Probly shouldnt put the email up on here though.

He also said I could print the page where it list my missus as a cardholder. And if all else fails I could call them back and they will see what they can help with.

Time will tell I suppose... If I ever actually get a response from them.

 

[Gouldster]

Well the plot thickens.

I just recieved this email from the Casino.


Hello Andrew,



Sorry but in order to use a card which is not registered in your name, we required verification documents prior to making a purchase. Furthermore, I can see we emailed you on 08/05/2010 requesting these documents and you never sent in anything until after I emailed you explaining the winnings were void on 11/05/2010.



As previously explained, the terms and conditions clearly state: "9. If the Credit Card or E-wallet used to deposit and/or withdraw funds is not in the name of the individual registered on the Casino account, then all winnings will be void."



The name on the casino account is "********" and the name registered on the credit card is "*******".



As per my previous email, all winnings on the account are void and a cheque for £50 will be sent out in the name of "*********".



Thanks for your patience and if you have any other queries about this just let me know.



We are endlessly striving to better our service. If there is anything more we can do for you, or if we could improve your experience, please do not hesitate to let us know. We are always here for you - 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year.





Thank you and kind regards,



Rhys

Casino Risk Management



That is, excuse my language, but complete bulls**t!!! They sent me no email on the 8th. The first email I recieved from them was 11th when they told me I wasn;t getting payed.

Now it also seems that you can breach their terms and conditions if you send them some documents. Except that they won;t ask you for the documents and if you win they will stiff you.

To hell with privacy, here is my reply.



Please could you send me evidence of you emailing me on 08/05/2010 as I recieved no such email.

You have recieved verification from me as soon as I was notified of the problem. Verification which clearly states the card is registered to me.

It would seem to me now that you are simply trying to shirk your responsibilities of paying what is owed to me.

Whatsmore, your email is contradictory. One the one hand you claim that using a card in someone elses name is against your terms and conditions and therefore any winnings will be void. However you claim that had I had replied to your phamtom email with verification, there would be no problem.

This is all largely irrelevant however, due to the fact that as previously stated, I have not broken your terms and conditions.

This matter is in no way closed.

Yours sincerely,




Does this stink to anyone else... Because it does to me.

CaptainCrooks more like...

Anyone know who I can complain to? They are US based I guess and I'm in the UK.

 

[Nifty29]

Its really unfortunate as it would appear, going by what you are telling us, that you didnt deliberately try to defraud the casino.

However the terms state:

If the Credit Card or E-wallet used to deposit and/or withdraw funds is not in the name of the individual registered on the Casino account, then all winnings will be void."

....so you did in fact violate that term.

The part I dont understand is this:

Sorry but in order to use a card which is not registered in your name, we required verification documents prior to making a purchase. Furthermore, I can see we emailed you on 08/05/2010 requesting these documents and you never sent in anything until after I emailed you explaining the winnings were void on 11/05/2010.

The casino asked you to send in some documents from your partner, but you didnt send them. Surely if your partner was OK with it all and you werent trying to pull a fast one you would just get her to sign the docs and send them. If you had, you may not have been in this situation as it appears the casino was willing to throw you a lifeline (which they were not obliged to do) to allow you to be paid. As it is, they probably figured that the absence of a reply meant you werent going to follow it up and therefore you were probably trying to scam them - hence the deposit refund and confiscation of winnings.

You should put this down as a lesson learned and always make sure you use your own payment methods in the future. You should also make sure you reply to casino requests asap.

I dont like your chances of being paid now.

 

[Gouldster]

whoops! it appears they did email me on that date. I've just scoured my junk mail and found. Came from a different email address though.

Well I've sent them the info they asked for so we will just have to see.

 

[vinylweatherman]

whoops! it appears they did email me on that date. I've just scoured my junk mail and found. Came from a different email address though.
Well I've sent them the info they asked for so we will just have to see.

That is just stupid. They should ALWAYS use a valid account that the player is EXPECTING emails to come from, otherwise it WILL end up in a junk folder.

There is an element of trickery here, because it seems you ARE fully entitled to use this card, and this surely is up to the issuing BANK to determine, NOT a merchant.

It also seems they didn't make too much effort considering the SEVERITY of this issue. WHY no follow up to the email when they didn't hear back, a phonecall perhaps (they phone ME when they want a deposit, or have an extra offer for me).

It seems they did the minimum they could arguably get away with, and only made sure you were aware when it was too late, as they say it makes no difference now even if you CAN prove you are fully entitled to use the card.

They are treating this like a standard credit card, but it is not, it is more like a pre-paid gift card. You could alternatively have used UKash, bought at a Paypoint using this card, and the casino would have had no problem with this. Indeed, your WIFE could have bought the UKash voucher, and you could have used it.

This is the letter of the law ruling over common sense, and is just what consumers should expect from big business, especially insurance companies, and it seems, online casinos.

As you say, if this was such a problem, the DEPOSIT should have been blocked straight away, not credited for play and potential LOSS, and not released UNTIL they got a reply to their email, or you contacted them to ask why you were not able to play with your deposit.

 

[Cant_Get_Right]

whoops! it appears they did email me on that date. I've just scoured my junk mail and found. Came from a different email address though.

Well I've sent them the info they asked for so we will just have to see.

Well I hope things work out for you. But Casino Rewards can be very stubborn at times. Run out and get yourself a Four Leaf Clover, a Horse Shoe, a Rabbit's Foot and any other lucky charm. You're gonna need it. While dealing with their risk management dept. CR will avoid your winnings if you use autoplay. While playing with a bonus.

 

[Nate]

Well I hope things work out for you. But Casino Rewards can be very stubborn at times. Run out and get yourself a Four Leaf Clover, a Horse Shoe, a Rabbit's Foot and any other lucky charm. You're gonna need it. While dealing with their risk management dept. CR will avoid your winnings if you use autoplay. While playing with a bonus.

Thanks.. I WONT be depositing there... or any of these places with Shady withdrawal limits and T&C's..... funny thing is they accept your cash and if you lose it ... No problem... try and withdraw and OOPS!!! Houstan... We have a problem...

 

[Gouldster]

Hey all,

yeah, i wont be fightin the lock on my account too much i can tell you that.

i guess im kinda to blame here. but it winds me up.

"That is just stupid. They should ALWAYS use a valid account that the player is EXPECTING emails to come from, otherwise it WILL end up in a junk folder.

There is an element of trickery here, because it seems you ARE fully entitled to use this card, and this surely is up to the issuing BANK to determine, NOT a merchant.

It also seems they didn't make too much effort considering the SEVERITY of this issue. WHY no follow up to the email when they didn't hear back, a phonecall perhaps (they phone ME when they want a deposit, or have an extra offer for me).

It seems they did the minimum they could arguably get away with, and only made sure you were aware when it was too late, as they say it makes no difference now even if you CAN prove you are fully entitled to use the card.
"

yeah the email they are talkin about casme from Casinorewardssupport and went to junk mail. the emails i have had came from CaptainCooksSupport (i think?) and Casinorewardsriskmanagement and got through fine.

I think it would have been nice of Rhys to mention in the email sayin i wasnt gettin payed that they had emailed me asking for ID etc. This is no problem for me to provide.

I feel a bit like im floggin a dead horse here, but "ITS MY CARD!" haha...

 

[Mousey]

Do they still begin emails with "Ahoy there, Matey!" ?

Used to drive me nuts with the old fake pirate captain crap (for the very short time I played there).

 

[Gouldster]

Poste deleted whilst I await confirmation...