can you rig online blackjack? relates to Golden Palace

xkxrome0ox

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 11, 2004
Location
Los Angeles, CA
just curious... how hard would it be to rig or manually manipulate an online blackjack game on the casino side?
would there be any way to trace it?

just want to know if anyone has any idea...

i've dropped $20,000 at goldenpalace.com ... and i just don't feel all that great about it.
at first the casino software was running fine... gamespeed was good...
i was experiencing the usual up and down in winning/losing ...
lost $2800.. won it back... requested withdraw... deposited more money... lost $2500... won back $3300... then got caught in their long waiting period for the withdraw and reversed it to play some more
(it took a full month before that first withdraw for $2800 come through... and not before i had lost $20,000)

this is where things started getting sour
i got greedy and stepped up the bets... this is about the time when the casino software started lagging in between many card draws
usually just a second... sometimes as long as 10-15 seconds
but the lag was becoming more and more annoying

i talked to their online support.. and they told me they got a sudden rush of new players and that they were working to make the casino software run faster

so i started losing... and losing fast... and so often, i'd draw an ace when i doubled down on 11
and goldenpalace not checking for blackjack didn't help me in any way
and so often, i'd experience the lag of a few seconds before the dealer proceeded to draw a 5,6, even 7-card 20 or 21 against my hand

it almost felt like someone was sitting on the other end picking out the cards for each draw
is that possible?

now... i don't want to seem crazy... and i don't want to blame others for my mistake in blowing away $20,000 ... but i don't know if i was dealt a fair hand...

so i want to know... if such a thing would be possible
many people talk about "codes" in the RNG ... and that online casinos are rigged...
i want to know if there's any way to prove it

all in all, i've wagered more than $115,000 at goldenpalace alone
 

xkxrome0ox

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 11, 2004
Location
Los Angeles, CA
oh.. and this is just another issue that started popping up later on...
i played their "live dealer" roulette many times... and i had a decent time at it... would win some, lose some...
then all of a sudden, the casino only registered a few of my bets on the table... it'd mysteriously erase 7 out of 11 bets... or even 18 out of 20
and i would have hit some good winners on some of those spins

so i complained to online support... they forwarded the issue to their pitboss... got an email the next day... he agreed that the betting pattern did not match my usual one... he apologized for the problem... i was given a $100 bonus for my "consistent play" at goldenpalace (this is after i had dropped $13,000) ... i should have won more than $270 for two of those spins
anyway... i'd return to play roulette here and there... and it happened several more times
and this time, when i complained to online support... they just told me it's MY connection. i think not... how can my connection be the problem if i am clicking on "rebet" to bet the same numbers again... but only a few of those bets actually go through while the others are taken off the table?
so i stopped playing roulette.

i should have stopped playing blackjack too... but i was too busy trying to win back my money

i'm not saying i just kept losing without any good streaks... several times i've turned $200-300 into $2000-3000 ... but it was not enough... and i lost more and more ... and sometimes i could not win a single hand while the dealer's pulling out 5-6 cards to make 21



any and all feedback welcome.
 

bethug

Banned User - Winner of the "<a href="http://www.c
Joined
Apr 20, 2003
xkxrome0ox, please dont play there
if you want a fair chance play at intercasino or sands or william hill
also inetbetcasino.

Dont drop more than 200 in any playtec casino, they can monitor your play and change the odds.

before u play at any casino , please research the forums
and stick to intercasino or omini if your going to drop 20000
 

pooter1

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 6, 2004
Location
house
hmm, see my post a couple down about fair blackjack places.

Sounds like the same thing that happens to me. I too have noticed a lot of lagging between cards being pulled and had dealer pulling 6 and 7 card 20/21's to tie or beat me when the most cards I could get was 4 before busting out. This was in a microgaming casino though today that I played.

I dont know if it is actually cheating or not. I dont think there is anyway to really know. And I am not accusing them of that but like you mentioned though about the lag, seems like they are lining up the right cards to pull out on you to beat you. I also noticed dealer pulling way many 2's, aces and 3's to my getting 8/9/10's on a hit.

It amazed me how many 20's and 21 were had by dealer. Dunno, but I am glad it wasnt real money I was playing with.
 

kniepm

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 6, 2003
I'm no programer or hacker, but, it seems to me if the casino wanted to fix the game, they could do it without a noticable lag in playing time. (I.e. casino bar dealing seconds.) I play several Boss media casinos and notice different lag times betwen draws. It seems that the longer lags end up with a ten or face card showing up in the next series of draws. (I am assuming this may be an issue with my old video card but I don't know.) I have no reason to believe they cheat and continue to play at Gold Club and Diamond Club on a weekly basis.

xkxrome0ox, my best advise is to not chase your losses, throwing good money after bad. All the games carry a negative expectation for the player. If you find yourself ahead of the casino, its an anomoly (where's my spell checker) -- mathematics will tell you that if you play long enough, you will lose all your winnings and your deposit.

My first online experiences were with Golden Palace also, only because they had the most main stream advertising. After I found some microgaming, Boss, cryptologic, and yes, even RTG casinos, I never played on Golden Palace or any casino using their software again. Only later did I start reading in forums such as casino meister about their long lived reputation for shananigans.

I'll back up what bethug said. All the casinos he listed play fair and offer the quick payouts (within 48 hours during the week).

Good luck, have fun. I hope you hit a winning streak on a fast paying casino soon.
 

jpm

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 29, 2002
I think golden palace may still be on the meister's not recommended list. That being said, I would be pretty much convinced at this point, if I were in your shoes, that I was being screwed at this place. The b.s. about some of the bets not being registered when you hit rebet on roulette would have been the final straw to convince me. Mysterious lag on bj when you have certain hands, and the plethora of 5,6, & 7 card 20/21 hands would also lead me to believe that something is going on behind the scenes that is not quite kosher. Anyone know what the odds of a 7 card 21 is offhand?

Take your money to someplace on the meister's recommended casino list and get treated fairly and like the high roller you are. You should be getting alot more than $100 comp for that kind of issue after you drop $13k.
 

xkxrome0ox

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 11, 2004
Location
Los Angeles, CA
yeah... i discovered these forums a little too late...

i'm currently playing at omni... deposited $500... have worked my way up to $2900 ... i'm taking my time though... because it's when i got frustrated and rushed that i lost big

i'll continue to scour the forums for the "good" casinos
where people seem to have a fair experience
and keep casino hopping until i can recoup some of my losses

thanks in advance for your continued support.

p.s. lol @ "like the high roller you are" ... i'm no high roller by any means... just a big time sucker!
 

jpm

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 29, 2002
Its all relative, in respect to me you're a high roller!

btw, check out global-player.com for a nice variety of bj that seems to play pretty fair.
 

rainman

Dormant account
Joined
Oct 26, 2001
bethug said:
xkxrome0ox, please dont play there
if you want a fair chance play at intercasino or sands or william hill
also inetbetcasino.

Dont drop more than 200 in any playtec casino, they can monitor your play and change the odds.

before u play at any casino , please research the forums
and stick to intercasino or omini if your going to drop 20000
what do you think inter,sands and will hill do? they monitor your play and change the odds as well.
 

gfkostas

Ex-Bonus Whore
Joined
Sep 3, 2003
Location
UK
I would suggest cryptologic 1on1casino for all the high rollers out there
 

jpm

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 29, 2002
I really missed rainman while I was away!

rainman said:
what do you think inter,sands and will hill do? they monitor your play and change the odds as well.
 

GrandMaster

Ueber Meister
CAG
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Location
UK
kniepm said:
I'm no programer or hacker, but, it seems to me if the casino wanted to fix the game, they could do it without a noticable lag in playing time. (I.e. casino bar dealing seconds.) I play several Boss media casinos and notice different lag times betwen draws. It seems that the longer lags end up with a ten or face card showing up in the next series of draws. (I am assuming this may be an issue with my old video card but I don't know.)
I noticed the same thing, I am sure it is not video card related, because it happened to me on different computers, even on my most recent one. It is just annoying when you are sitting there, waiting for the next card and you know that it is going to be a 10 and you are going to bust. This seems to be a problem with BM software. I certainly agree that if a game were rigged, it would not need to take any longer to deal. There are other possible reasons for delays, general network congestion and these days, sadly, denial of service attacks.

Actually, I just played at a BM casino and the 10s were coming just as fast as the other cards.
 
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toofast4u

Dormant account
Joined
Oct 28, 2002
The question is not 'are they cheating' , but can you prove they are cheating??
And if you can prove they are cheating, can you do something about it?? I have noticed that even with casinos that were proved to be cheats, the worst that happened to them was just some bad press. But is there something more that can be done?? If any land based operation were proved cheating, you can bet your ass the FBI and the gaming comission would be on it like stink on you know what!!
 

TAR

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Joined
Jan 4, 2004
I just want to make sure..... is a 50 cent bet considered high roller style?
In land based casinos I know it's not, but on online I am not sure. Personally speaking, risking 50 cents a pop, I expect online casinos to kiss my schmekkiikii.

Tim AKA Mayo Man
 

xkxrome0ox

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 11, 2004
Location
Los Angeles, CA
managed to get my omni casino balance up to $5000.75 (initial deposit $500)
i'm going to cash out as soon as i can.
phone support told me that because i made the deposit by citadel, the payment has to "clear" and i can't withdraw yet
 

bethug

Banned User - Winner of the "<a href="http://www.c
Joined
Apr 20, 2003
i have one over 2000 on intercasino a few times , if they monitor players , they never gave me the voodoo switch yet.

xkxrome0ox, dont play no more until u get your cash, u dont want to lose it all back, then start over Good luck
 

Black21Jack

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 1, 2004
Location
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
I have found when playing RTG regular Blackjack that the software lags when I am going to bust with a 10. I can now know a few seconds before whether I am going to bust. It doesnt do me any good to know becuase the cards are already dealt and I am going to lose anyways but I do know that I will bust. If anyone can play for fun in an RTG casino and see if they notice, or if they have noticed this let me know. I love the RTG software but this makes me a little worried on the fairness. I have practiced and practiced and found it only does it when I bust my hand. Anyways let me know.

Thanks.
 

hhcfreebie

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Joined
Feb 22, 2003
Location
USA
If you want to analyze your play, the easy way is to calculate the total units lost and the total units wagered.
After that you can use the wizard's formula to see the probability:

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The hard way is to record every hand you play and do a chi-square test. To do so, you will need to learn a few basic concepts here:

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click on Blackjack - Addendum #2 to see how it is done.
You should be able to know how likely their software to be random.
I'd say you can catch a rigged software easily in a few thousands hands with the easy way. Maybe you can catch them in a thousand hands or so with the hard way.
I think most major softwares are random and fair. Unless an event as rare as 1 in 5,000 happen I won't consider it to be "rigged".
 

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