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can you rig online blackjack? relates to Golden Palace

Discussion in 'Online Casino and Poker Complaints - old section' started by xkxrome0ox, Mar 11, 2004.

    Mar 11, 2004
  1. xkxrome0ox

    xkxrome0ox Dormant account

    Los Angeles, CA
    just curious... how hard would it be to rig or manually manipulate an online blackjack game on the casino side?
    would there be any way to trace it?

    just want to know if anyone has any idea...

    i've dropped $20,000 at goldenpalace.com ... and i just don't feel all that great about it.
    at first the casino software was running fine... gamespeed was good...
    i was experiencing the usual up and down in winning/losing ...
    lost $2800.. won it back... requested withdraw... deposited more money... lost $2500... won back $3300... then got caught in their long waiting period for the withdraw and reversed it to play some more
    (it took a full month before that first withdraw for $2800 come through... and not before i had lost $20,000)

    this is where things started getting sour
    i got greedy and stepped up the bets... this is about the time when the casino software started lagging in between many card draws
    usually just a second... sometimes as long as 10-15 seconds
    but the lag was becoming more and more annoying

    i talked to their online support.. and they told me they got a sudden rush of new players and that they were working to make the casino software run faster

    so i started losing... and losing fast... and so often, i'd draw an ace when i doubled down on 11
    and goldenpalace not checking for blackjack didn't help me in any way
    and so often, i'd experience the lag of a few seconds before the dealer proceeded to draw a 5,6, even 7-card 20 or 21 against my hand

    it almost felt like someone was sitting on the other end picking out the cards for each draw
    is that possible?

    now... i don't want to seem crazy... and i don't want to blame others for my mistake in blowing away $20,000 ... but i don't know if i was dealt a fair hand...

    so i want to know... if such a thing would be possible
    many people talk about "codes" in the RNG ... and that online casinos are rigged...
    i want to know if there's any way to prove it

    all in all, i've wagered more than $115,000 at goldenpalace alone
  2. Mar 11, 2004
  3. xkxrome0ox

    xkxrome0ox Dormant account

    Los Angeles, CA
    oh.. and this is just another issue that started popping up later on...
    i played their "live dealer" roulette many times... and i had a decent time at it... would win some, lose some...
    then all of a sudden, the casino only registered a few of my bets on the table... it'd mysteriously erase 7 out of 11 bets... or even 18 out of 20
    and i would have hit some good winners on some of those spins

    so i complained to online support... they forwarded the issue to their pitboss... got an email the next day... he agreed that the betting pattern did not match my usual one... he apologized for the problem... i was given a $100 bonus for my "consistent play" at goldenpalace (this is after i had dropped $13,000) ... i should have won more than $270 for two of those spins
    anyway... i'd return to play roulette here and there... and it happened several more times
    and this time, when i complained to online support... they just told me it's MY connection. i think not... how can my connection be the problem if i am clicking on "rebet" to bet the same numbers again... but only a few of those bets actually go through while the others are taken off the table?
    so i stopped playing roulette.

    i should have stopped playing blackjack too... but i was too busy trying to win back my money

    i'm not saying i just kept losing without any good streaks... several times i've turned $200-300 into $2000-3000 ... but it was not enough... and i lost more and more ... and sometimes i could not win a single hand while the dealer's pulling out 5-6 cards to make 21

    any and all feedback welcome.
  4. Mar 11, 2004
  5. bethug

    bethug Banned User - Winner of the "<a href="http://www.c

    xkxrome0ox, please dont play there
    if you want a fair chance play at intercasino or sands or william hill
    also inetbetcasino.

    Dont drop more than 200 in any playtec casino, they can monitor your play and change the odds.

    before u play at any casino , please research the forums
    and stick to intercasino or omini if your going to drop 20000
  6. Mar 11, 2004
  7. pooter1

    pooter1 Dormant account

    hmm, see my post a couple down about fair blackjack places.

    Sounds like the same thing that happens to me. I too have noticed a lot of lagging between cards being pulled and had dealer pulling 6 and 7 card 20/21's to tie or beat me when the most cards I could get was 4 before busting out. This was in a microgaming casino though today that I played.

    I dont know if it is actually cheating or not. I dont think there is anyway to really know. And I am not accusing them of that but like you mentioned though about the lag, seems like they are lining up the right cards to pull out on you to beat you. I also noticed dealer pulling way many 2's, aces and 3's to my getting 8/9/10's on a hit.

    It amazed me how many 20's and 21 were had by dealer. Dunno, but I am glad it wasnt real money I was playing with.
  8. Mar 11, 2004
  9. kniepm

    kniepm Dormant account

    I'm no programer or hacker, but, it seems to me if the casino wanted to fix the game, they could do it without a noticable lag in playing time. (I.e. casino bar dealing seconds.) I play several Boss media casinos and notice different lag times betwen draws. It seems that the longer lags end up with a ten or face card showing up in the next series of draws. (I am assuming this may be an issue with my old video card but I don't know.) I have no reason to believe they cheat and continue to play at Gold Club and Diamond Club on a weekly basis.

    xkxrome0ox, my best advise is to not chase your losses, throwing good money after bad. All the games carry a negative expectation for the player. If you find yourself ahead of the casino, its an anomoly (where's my spell checker) -- mathematics will tell you that if you play long enough, you will lose all your winnings and your deposit.

    My first online experiences were with Golden Palace also, only because they had the most main stream advertising. After I found some microgaming, Boss, cryptologic, and yes, even RTG casinos, I never played on Golden Palace or any casino using their software again. Only later did I start reading in forums such as casino meister about their long lived reputation for shananigans.

    I'll back up what bethug said. All the casinos he listed play fair and offer the quick payouts (within 48 hours during the week).

    Good luck, have fun. I hope you hit a winning streak on a fast paying casino soon.
  10. Mar 11, 2004
  11. jpm

    jpm Dormant account

    I think golden palace may still be on the meister's not recommended list. That being said, I would be pretty much convinced at this point, if I were in your shoes, that I was being screwed at this place. The b.s. about some of the bets not being registered when you hit rebet on roulette would have been the final straw to convince me. Mysterious lag on bj when you have certain hands, and the plethora of 5,6, & 7 card 20/21 hands would also lead me to believe that something is going on behind the scenes that is not quite kosher. Anyone know what the odds of a 7 card 21 is offhand?

    Take your money to someplace on the meister's recommended casino list and get treated fairly and like the high roller you are. You should be getting alot more than $100 comp for that kind of issue after you drop $13k.
  12. Mar 11, 2004
  13. xkxrome0ox

    xkxrome0ox Dormant account

    Los Angeles, CA
    yeah... i discovered these forums a little too late...

    i'm currently playing at omni... deposited $500... have worked my way up to $2900 ... i'm taking my time though... because it's when i got frustrated and rushed that i lost big

    i'll continue to scour the forums for the "good" casinos
    where people seem to have a fair experience
    and keep casino hopping until i can recoup some of my losses

    thanks in advance for your continued support.

    p.s. lol @ "like the high roller you are" ... i'm no high roller by any means... just a big time sucker!
  14. Mar 11, 2004
  15. jpm

    jpm Dormant account

    Its all relative, in respect to me you're a high roller!

    btw, check out global-player.com for a nice variety of bj that seems to play pretty fair.
  16. Mar 11, 2004
  17. rainman

    rainman Dormant account

    what do you think inter,sands and will hill do? they monitor your play and change the odds as well.
  18. Mar 11, 2004
  19. gfkostas

    gfkostas Ex-Bonus Whore

    I would suggest cryptologic 1on1casino for all the high rollers out there
  20. Mar 11, 2004
  21. caruso

    caruso Banned User - repetitive violations of 1.6 - troll

    Casino apologist
    I would suggest you consider stopping gambling.
  22. Mar 11, 2004
  23. jpm

    jpm Dormant account

    I really missed rainman while I was away!

  24. Mar 12, 2004
  25. GrandMaster

    GrandMaster Ueber Meister CAG

    Mathematician by day, online gambler by night.
    I noticed the same thing, I am sure it is not video card related, because it happened to me on different computers, even on my most recent one. It is just annoying when you are sitting there, waiting for the next card and you know that it is going to be a 10 and you are going to bust. This seems to be a problem with BM software. I certainly agree that if a game were rigged, it would not need to take any longer to deal. There are other possible reasons for delays, general network congestion and these days, sadly, denial of service attacks.

    Actually, I just played at a BM casino and the 10s were coming just as fast as the other cards.
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2004
  26. Mar 14, 2004
  27. toofast4u

    toofast4u Dormant account

    The question is not 'are they cheating' , but can you prove they are cheating??
    And if you can prove they are cheating, can you do something about it?? I have noticed that even with casinos that were proved to be cheats, the worst that happened to them was just some bad press. But is there something more that can be done?? If any land based operation were proved cheating, you can bet your ass the FBI and the gaming comission would be on it like stink on you know what!!
  28. Mar 14, 2004
  29. TAR

    TAR Dormant account

    I just want to make sure..... is a 50 cent bet considered high roller style?
    In land based casinos I know it's not, but on online I am not sure. Personally speaking, risking 50 cents a pop, I expect online casinos to kiss my schmekkiikii.

    Tim AKA Mayo Man
  30. Mar 15, 2004
  31. xkxrome0ox

    xkxrome0ox Dormant account

    Los Angeles, CA
    managed to get my omni casino balance up to $5000.75 (initial deposit $500)
    i'm going to cash out as soon as i can.
    phone support told me that because i made the deposit by citadel, the payment has to "clear" and i can't withdraw yet
  32. Mar 15, 2004
  33. gfkostas

    gfkostas Ex-Bonus Whore

    And why's that?
  34. Mar 15, 2004
  35. bethug

    bethug Banned User - Winner of the "<a href="http://www.c

    i have one over 2000 on intercasino a few times , if they monitor players , they never gave me the voodoo switch yet.

    xkxrome0ox, dont play no more until u get your cash, u dont want to lose it all back, then start over Good luck
  36. Mar 15, 2004
  37. Black21Jack

    Black21Jack Dormant account

    Courier driver
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    I have found when playing RTG regular Blackjack that the software lags when I am going to bust with a 10. I can now know a few seconds before whether I am going to bust. It doesnt do me any good to know becuase the cards are already dealt and I am going to lose anyways but I do know that I will bust. If anyone can play for fun in an RTG casino and see if they notice, or if they have noticed this let me know. I love the RTG software but this makes me a little worried on the fairness. I have practiced and practiced and found it only does it when I bust my hand. Anyways let me know.

  38. Mar 15, 2004
  39. hhcfreebie

    hhcfreebie Dormant account

    If you want to analyze your play, the easy way is to calculate the total units lost and the total units wagered.
    After that you can use the wizard's formula to see the probability:

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    The hard way is to record every hand you play and do a chi-square test. To do so, you will need to learn a few basic concepts here:

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    click on Blackjack - Addendum #2 to see how it is done.
    You should be able to know how likely their software to be random.
    I'd say you can catch a rigged software easily in a few thousands hands with the easy way. Maybe you can catch them in a thousand hands or so with the hard way.
    I think most major softwares are random and fair. Unless an event as rare as 1 in 5,000 happen I won't consider it to be "rigged".

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