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Bwin fairness

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by Okno, May 10, 2009.

    May 10, 2009
  1. Okno

    Okno Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Spy
    Location:
    Earth
    Hello,

    I have one question regardig Bwin's instant casino fairness.

    The software is Chartwell, which is known for extremelly streaky games (BJ included)

    So they have sent reload offer, and I and few of my friends accepted this

    So my theory is, they can pretty much see an 'abuser' aka low roller aka invited player, so 'abuser' is not rellevant here, but casinos call it like it, becasue ... it's another story, so I strongly believe they can edit individual players cards, which will come to his hands (It would be pretty easy to code such tool) and then this individual player lose much more than 'expected', but not just that - the whole bonus plus deposit. This happens (according to BB calculator once in 10k or more times), but in reality this happens one on 10 and less times. This is where I don't get it ... To win some lotery is more probably than having such unluck.

    So I'm curious what you think about it, it is possible to cheat the player in such way? Basically they can defend themselves that it's 'real loss' but when more players ahve such loss, it is less likely they can defent themselves like this.

    I know few players who have done this recent reload bonus and all of them (except one player) had loss in overal, far away from EV and 34% of them lost the entire bonus (150E) and plus some own deposited funds in 6000E wagering. The rest had profit of 1 to 87E and one of them had profit of 31E and the bonus.

    If I calculate all this data I get very less chance that this could happen.

    But the most curious thing is that nearly all of them reported to me that they had huge losses in first 1k wagering (or 70E down in 500E wagered) then no winnings, mosly just 5win-5lose-etc and then huge downswing again.

    I have never experienced such things in online nor offline casinos, so that is why it is very strange.

    I'm not saying that the whole casino is rigged, but for certain players it is. If someone tells me that Chartwell is fair fo years, that is also irrelevant as the games I have jsut won/lost, because everyone can rig it anytime for any short/long time period, believing that IF it was fair THEN it will be fair forever is BS too (in my opinion).

    Purpose of this post is not to attack bwin or cahrtwell, but just to find any answer of these weird stuffs.

    Thanks
     
  2. May 16, 2009
  3. Okno

    Okno Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Spy
    Location:
    Earth
    Nobody cares about strange results ? Or all of you are winning over there ?
     
  4. May 16, 2009
  5. kmay87

    kmay87 Meister Member PABnononaccred PABaccred2

    Occupation:
    Barrister
    Location:
    England
    Read about this for a long time. Don't know what to make of it. My personal results have been as expected.

    Cheating software - heard it all before.
    Cheating casinos - heard it all before.

    Hence why few others have commented, I would presume.
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. May 16, 2009
  7. Pinababy69

    Pinababy69 RIP Lisa

    Occupation:
    Crusader
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario - Canada
    In my case at least Kmay, you presume correctly. Coupled with the OP's statements below. How many "friends"? Online or off? Groups of people taking up a bonus offer sets off alarm bells for me. Are these friends from a forum, or in real life? If it's real life, are they playing on the same computer?

    But bottom line, yeah...another "rigging" thread....and I've promised myself to try and stay out of them as much as possible, for everyone's sake. :D

     
  8. May 16, 2009
  9. Tengil

    Tengil Senior Member

    Occupation:
    -
    Location:
    Finland
    I have indeed seen many horrible results with Chartwell, some call it Cheatwell. And these are experienced gamblers. So you are certainly not alone.
    I myself have some doubts of the randomness of Chartwell, it just seems too streaky.
    But until anything is proven..
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. May 16, 2009
  11. Okno

    Okno Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Spy
    Location:
    Earth
    Most of them are online (accross the World), but couple of offline (from my hometown) too, they all have their own PC. All accounts are real and not multiaccounting or whatever ... I just like to see stats and numbers, as fresh as possible.

    Bwin itself advertise bonuses and itself sends me email to call more and more friends (players) and is even paying money for that, so it is absolutelly bwins idea to be generous mathematically, but not even close in real results.
    I have never seen reload bonus so fast (month) after another, but that may be coinsidence...

    Number of all players is 26.

    And it is just way too weird that most of them lost most of the bonus in the 3rd or 4th part of wagering (In the end), something like last 1k wager and -90 or -140 eur or -100 to -200 in last 3k wagering.

    Just for example, they did well at Mybet/Coral (some lost entire bonus+some of deposit tho), but bwin (reload) was simply nightamre. Most of them (19) was players who knew this stuff before I did, and then I invited 6 friends. Those 19 players was always very close to EV...

    It can still be a "small" sample, but one thing can be stated even from such small sample and that is huge streakiness (some streaks goes as high as -4.4SD or 1:200000)

    Sorry for typos, my keyboard is broken...
     
  12. May 16, 2009
  13. kmay87

    kmay87 Meister Member PABnononaccred PABaccred2

    Occupation:
    Barrister
    Location:
    England
    I'll give you that.

    They send me frequent 100% matches up to 500 Euro, even though I haven't played there in a very long time. PartyGaming did the same. And yet strangely, both have been cited as having potentially unfair software.

    I'm not in a position to prove or disprove your comments. As I've said, I've heard a lot about this in the past. Personally, I just can't see it being true.
     

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