Btg how do you get away with it

[mack341]

I'd quite like a ask jeeves alternative to alexa, it was a good idea at the time but needed a bit more going on

 

[neon claws]

It's a pointless exercise anyway- BTG would say; "no we didn't change the maths" and the OP would say "then how do you explain THIS" while posting an unlabeled graph of his last 36 spins.

 

[kennygamerboy]

It's a pointless exercise anyway- BTG would say; "no we didn't change the maths" and the OP would say "then how do you explain THIS" while posting an unlabeled graph of his last 36 spins.

You need to pipe down you’ve got far to much to say. Bonanza and the rest of there slots are disgusting rigged filth and it will all come out in the wash in good time

 

[Halvor]

You need to pipe down you’ve got far to much to say. Bonanza and the rest of there slots are disgusting rigged filth and it will all come out in the wash in good time

Or maybe you need to handle swings in the rtp better and stop accusing a company of wrong doing just because of a bad return on a very limited amount of spins?

 

[kennygamerboy]

Or maybe you need to handle swings in the rtp better and stop accusing a company of wrong doing just because of a bad return on a very limited amount of spins?

That’s just one site are you dumb. I play on a lot of sites and btg games have been rigged filthy and robbing since 12th april

 

[Halvor]

That’s just one site are you dumb. I play on a lot of sites and btg games have been rigged filthy and robbing since 12th april

I guess BTG and the operators are conspiring against you then! My bad...

 

[thr0b]

That’s just one site are you dumb. I play on a lot of sites and btg games have been rigged filthy and robbing since 12th april

I’ve been doing better out of BTG since 12th April. Go figure.

 

[dunover]

BTG - a purveyor of high-volatility slots which thus go on pronounced streaks of tightness and occasionally benevolence. Your opinion tends to reflect what part of the curve you are on.

 

[aceking123]

It's a pile of shit period.
Still awaiting to see these mega hits the owners stated happen from time to time.

Fools gold hahaha

 

[Kroffe]

Its worse, with bonanza its just fools gol.

 

[neon claws]

You need to pipe down you’ve got far to much to say.

Typical "slots are rigged" player- can't accept responsibility for their own losses and so take it as a personal affront when people (rightly) disagree with their ridiculous, easily disproven theories.

 

[mack341]

Not sure they are 'easily disproven', the slots and casino industry is hardly the most transparent entity, basically the end user has to trust the system, which means that all the businesses act with honesty and integrity, and the regulating bodies know the technical side inside out, and their system of checks is very thorough. As people have mentioned previously look at VW and the emissions scandal, which involved software tricks deceiving the tests.

 

[neon claws]

Not sure they are 'easily disproven', the slots and casino industry is hardly the most transparent entity, basically the end user has to trust the system, which means that all the businesses act with honesty and integrity, and the regulating bodies know the technical side inside out, and their system of checks is very thorough. As people have mentioned previously look at VW and the emissions scandal, which involved software tricks deceiving the tests.

It's quite simple to prove.
First, take your argument; in this case- the RTP of bonanza has been reduced since 12th April or whatever. Then find statistically significant evidence to support that.

Statistically significant evidence is not you getting peeved you had a bad run for a few thousand spins.
If you distrust the publicly available figures at videoslots, slot tracker etc. then start logging your own results.

At the end of your study you have statistically undeniable proof that the RTP is not as advertised and that slot tracker, videoslots, any other site displaying RTP, the game developers, the testing houses are all frauds, that would be huge.

And yet, throughout the hundreds of these type of threads no one has ever bothered to try and prove their accusations that they are so sure of. Why is that? Because they want to be able to continue to blame external forces for their own actions.

 

[mack341]

It's quite simple to prove.
First, take your argument; in this case- the RTP of bonanza has been reduced since 12th April or whatever. Then find statistically significant evidence to support that.

Statistically significant evidence is not you getting peeved you had a bad run for a few thousand spins.
If you distrust the publicly available figures at videoslots, slot tracker etc. then start logging your own results.

At the end of your study you have statistically undeniable proof that the RTP is not as advertised and that slot tracker, videoslots, any other site displaying RTP, the game developers, the testing houses are all frauds, that would be huge.

And yet, throughout the hundreds of these type of threads no one has ever bothered to try and prove their accusations that they are so sure of. Why is that? Because they want to be able to continue to blame external forces for their own actions.

But wouldn't people say 'well you haven't done enough spins', it's unlikely you'd be able to if the slot was being feral to you.

Coral was running misadvertised rtp slots for months, which suggests the ongoing ukkgc checks are not great. We never know if the testing houses found such and such faults, look at that netent streetfighter exploit that slipped past the testing, have the playing public access to the explanation?

I'd find it hard to believe that anyone who regularly slots hasn't a few times felt the pattern of spin results seemed 'off' or odd, scripted etc...therefore anyone posting such thoughts doesn't offend me, for want of a better way of putting it after i've only managed 3hrs sleep tonight

Edit: I do think tracking resullts is a good idea, makes it more scientific and you can compare periods, then decide if you're happy. If i ever get a new, more capable PC i think i'll use one, would be interesting.

 

[Halvor]

We never know if the testing houses found such and such faults, look at that netent streetfighter exploit that slipped past the testing, have the playing public access to the explanation?

The test labs do not look for exploits, they look for issues with compliance, RTP etc.

If you want to point the finger at anyone for street fighter, It would be Netent and their internal QA. Also a bit of topic seeing how they actually made the game play at a higher than wanted RTP by making it abusable

 

[mack341]

The test labs do not look for exploits, they look for issues with compliance, RTP etc.

If you want to point the finger at anyone for street fighter, It would be Netent and their internal QA. Also a bit of topic seeing how they actually made the game play at a higher than wanted RTP by making it abusable

Yes but with such an exploit those in the know first can make the most of it. I think the testing labs should look for exploits and bugs, as part of being thorough.

I sit somewhere in the middle on this topic, reading both pov, but I am skeptical abt business integrity and how competent the ukgc are.
Maybe having the thought 'it's rigged' is part of stopping when it's no longer fun, helps folk to quit, rather than spiral and chase. Disagree by all means but personal attacks and digs slip in too much imo.

 

[Halvor]

Yes but with such an exploit those in the know first can make the most of it. I think the testing labs should look for exploits and bugs, as part of being thorough.

I sit somewhere in the middle on this topic, reading both pov, but I am skeptical abt business integrity and how competent the ukgc are.
Maybe having the thought 'it's rigged' is part of stopping when it's no longer fun, helps folk to quit, rather than spiral and chase. Disagree by all means but personal attacks and digs slip in too much imo.

But why should they? Studios do their own QA, and it's not up to a test lab to decide if the mechanics of a game live up to their standards, and frankly neither are most of them capable of. They're not mathematicians.

 

[mack341]

But why should they? Studios do their own QA, and it's not up to a test lab to decide if the mechanics of a game live up to their standards, and frankly neither are most of them capable of. They're not mathematicians.

Probably the same reason as the VW scandal, things can be hidden in software. I thought I recall Trance saying they do look at the code but I may have been imagining that.

 

[Kroffe]

I mean, in theory its simple to prove if the rtp is running as it should.
In reality, doing the millions of spins required (if not billions) is not so simple.
Im guessing the people complaning about small sample sizes wouldnt be satisfied unless you do the same number as they did in testing, so probably a couple billion if not hundreds of billions of spins, simple eh?

Theres pretty much zero transparency when it comes to testing and results.
Example, Doa 94% version was taken down from videoslots some months back, was down for a loooong time.
What was wrong with it? Did it run at 200% rtp, did it run at 20% rtp? Should i as a player be entitled to a refund for playing a broken game?

No way to find out, game was down for a couple months, then it was back again.
Do you as a player want to know why it was taken down, tough luck.

And its not like i can reach out to spelinspektionen/ukgc and say 'hey i think this game is f*cked' and they will test to see if it is indeed f*cked.
I mean, i can reach out to them, but good luck getting them to do anything besides collecting license fees.

 

[Kroffe]

In short

Easy to test if rtp running as its supposed to, kind of.
Realistic/possible for a player to do it, not even close.

 

[shadow123]

Apart from a few dogs, have found most BTG games play reasonably consistant and fair.Having said that I get the feeling
that there is a quite a lot of stuff going off in the background we dont know about.
At least as far as I know there is only one rtp setting for each game and that never changes, a rarity for most developers.
One game which always seemed to play well under the rtp for me was Donuts until a couple of big hits which put it bang on target.

 

[neon claws]

In short

Easy to test if rtp running as its supposed to, kind of.
Realistic/possible for a player to do it, not even close.

I don't think it would take all that many spins to be able to extrapolate where the RTP is going to converge, I'd want to ask @trancemonkey or someone who had experience testing how many spins you'd usually expect to get within 1-2% of RTP.

From personal tests in the past I've come within 3% of advertised RTP within a few thousand spins on about half a dozen games.

 

[Kroffe]

I don't think it would take all that many spins to be able to extrapolate where the RTP is going to converge, I'd want to ask @trancemonkey or someone who had experience testing how many spins you'd usually expect to get within 1-2% of RTP.

From personal tests in the past I've come within 3% of advertised RTP within a few thousand spins on about half a dozen games.

Yeah, you could land within a couple % with a couple thousand spins.
But depending on how volatile the game is, a couple thousand spins could leave you waaaay off aswell.
I mean just look at the bonanza thread and you will see going a couple thousand spins without seeing a bonus happens every now and again.

Same for games like Doa/Wtb.
If you dont get the 5 scatters or wildlines every now and again, you are screwed as far as getting close to the theoretical rtp.
And i know from experience you can easily go many many thousands of spins without getting either.

Im not saying bonanza is not paying out as it should or doa/wtb, but i think that as a player, reliably testing if a game is running as it should is not really possible/reasonable to expect anyone to do.

As example, over 51k spins im about 3% below theoretical rtp on bonanza. (looked at about one years worth of spins)
How many more spins should i be expected to do before i approach the 96% its supposed to give back?
The winstreak needed to push that 93% up to the theoretical rtp of 96% would be the stuff of legends.

 

[X-Raided]

I love BTG games.. What I like to do when BTG slots are treating me like a $2 hoe is stop playing them and try some other providers.

What I don't do is try to muscle the games to perform my way and spin 100's of spins trying to get a huge win out of frustration
because they've been performing badly.

How many more threads will we see of "slots are rigged" because players want the games to perform how they want?

We play to lose, have fun doing it and sometimes, very rarely, get surprised by a nice win.

 

[Kroffe]

I love BTG games.. What I like to do when BTG slots are treating me like a $2 hoe is stop playing them and try some other providers.

What I don't do is try to muscle the games to perform my way and spin 100's of spins trying to get a huge win out of frustration
because they've been performing badly.

How many more threads will we see of "slots are rigged" because players want the games to perform how they want?

We play to lose, have fun doing it and sometimes, very rarely, get surprised by a nice win.

The thing is leaving them alone for a few days, hours etc shouldnt make a difference if the games work as they are supposed to.
Rememeber that every spin is supposed to be random and have the same chance at hitting that big win,
So 'muscle the game' does not exist, every spin no matter when you make it have the same chance, right?
A bad session supposedly have the same chance as a good session to spit out a win at any given moment.
So leaving them for other games should make zero difference.

I always play to lose so to speak, but i still think there could be alot more transparancy about whats going on in the background.
Like Btg saying there is only one version of bonanza. Scatters not appearing in max megaways spins on some sites kind of implies there might be more than one version, but try getting Btg to actually answer whats going on and all you get is silence.