Brexit - whats the difference.....

[goatwack]

I thought Brown did pretty well during his term, and largely underappreciated. Not perfect by any stretch, but what I personally consider the last credible Labour leader. After his resignation I saw Labour flounder somewhat, from which they've not quite recovered as of yet.

Brown was given short shrift for his underwhelming public speaking, and we've moved away from boring politicians doing their job to whatever 'this' is, on all sides. I know Ed Miliband got vilified but honestly, I'd rather have seen him at the helm than the 'class of 2022'!

 

[pinnit2014]

Starmer is probably being closely advised by Blair on how to handle things, he knows all about putting on a mask in order to win votes, playing the old left and disaffected tories.

View attachment 169664

Look at that baby face though?

So innocent, yet so full of evil intent for things to come.

 

[Mr_Slot5]

Look at that baby face though?

So innocent, yet so full of evil intent for things to come.

A valuable lesson about how easy it is to be duped by charisma and charm.

 

[pinnit2014]

I thought Brown did pretty well during his term, and largely underappreciated. Not perfect by any stretch, but what I personally consider the last credible Labour leader. After his resignation I saw Labour flounder somewhat, from which they've not quite recovered as of yet.

Brown was given short shrift for his underwhelming public speaking, and we've moved away from boring politicians doing their job to whatever 'this' is, on all sides. I know Ed Miliband got vilified but honestly, I'd rather have seen him at the helm than the 'class of 2022'!

Yeah, his part there was underwhelming in the sense that i thought here we go: someone who gets economic growth and can be a sensible voice in the whacky races that can sometimes be the Labour Party. He certainly seemed more open to listening to those other than the radical Unionised element of the party. Had a certain ring about John Smith about him when he started.

 

[Mr_Slot5]

I thought Brown did pretty well during his term, and largely underappreciated. Not perfect by any stretch, but what I personally consider the last credible Labour leader. After his resignation I saw Labour flounder somewhat, from which they've not quite recovered as of yet.

Brown was given short shrift for his underwhelming public speaking, and we've moved away from boring politicians doing their job to whatever 'this' is, on all sides. I know Ed Miliband got vilified but honestly, I'd rather have seen him at the helm than the 'class of 2022'!

There’s a video on YT of Brown being torn to shreds by Farage over his selling off of the gold reserves on the cheap. All Brown could do is sit there smirking.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

So yes, Britain's no better off for it, and many politicians involved in its process long-gone. David 'Blub' Cameron, gone. Theresa 'Robot' May, gone. Boris 'DUDE' Johnson, soon to go, couldn't give a flying fig. And as for Sir 'Beer' Starmer and Angela 'Chav' Rayner, well, I wouldn't bank on them sorting Britain's problems out either, nor any current Labour troupe, as the party's in a worse state than the Tories (hard to believe)

'Chav' Rayner eh?

Here's Johnson's new (and I swear I'm not making this up)...... Education Secretary.

 

[mack341]

 

[interlog]

In the meantime that is the Utopia that is Europe where corruption and behind the scenes favouratism is unheard of:

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[ChopleyIOM]

In the meantime that is the Utopia that is Europe where corruption and behind the scenes favouratism is unheard of:

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'Utopia'

 

[interlog]

'Utopia'

View attachment 169882

Just bringing in a a little bit of a balance to this debate, that's all. But you're right, I shouldn't have written Utopia, but perhaps UTOPIA

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Just bringing in a a little bit of a balance to this debate, that's all. But you're right, I shouldn't have written Utopia, but perhaps UTOPIA

Literally three years ago in this very thread I was essentially describing the EU as 'not great, but on balance we're better off in than out, and from a position where we have the influence to change things we don't like, rather than sitting outside the tent trying to piss in'.

It's possible to be pro-EU membership without cracking into a magnificent stiffy about how great the EU is, because I don't think the EU is that great, I never have, I think it's an imperfect solution to a terrible problem (constant war in Europe and endless disputes) that we'd have been better served by remaining a key player inside the union, rather than the whingeing toddler we've been reduced to outside the union.

 

[mack341]

I remember those posts Chop, but they do kind of clash with calling Brexit the biggest pile of s**t, when it has literally had no time to bed in, and officially began 3 months before a world wide covid pandemic [with unheard of economic shutdown] and now war and mass inflation, you can hardly claim it's had a good chance to work and the govt's undivided time and attention to sort out issues.

It's possible to be pro-EU membership without cracking into a magnificent stiffy about how great the EU is, because I don't think the EU is that great, I never have

The thing is as the EU goes along it is getting worse, more dictatorial, like a runaway train with no democratic mandate controlling it.

It is a lobbyist's dream where decision makers are not answerable in any kind of meaningful way to the public. Big firms like lots and lots of regulations, it acts as a barrier of entry to smaller firms for the market they are in, they cannot afford the compliance costs.

 

[Mr_Slot5]

I remember those posts Chop, but they do kind of clash with calling Brexit the biggest pile of s**t, when it has literally had no time to bed in, and officially began 3 months before a world wide covid pandemic [with unheard of economic shutdown] and now war and mass inflation, you can hardly claim it's had a good chance to work and the govt's undivided time and attention to sort out issues.

It's possible to be pro-EU membership without cracking into a magnificent stiffy about how great the EU is, because I don't think the EU is that great, I never have

The thing is as the EU goes along it is getting worse, more dictatorial, like a runaway train with no democratic mandate controlling it.

It is a lobbyist's dream where decision makers are not answerable in any kind of meaningful way to the public. Big firms like lots and lots of regulations, it acts as a barrier of entry to smaller firms for the market they are in, they cannot afford the compliance costs.

As I remember, a lot of the remainers said that it needed reform from within and we could influence that.

My question is, how?

Much easier to get our own house in order without dependency on the whims of an oversized 'club'

 

[Webzcas]

People harping on about rejoining the EU are the same as the Nationalists north of Carlisle who keep on banging the drum for another independence referendum.

Sorry but referendums are not General Elections. They are, as asserted by Alex Salmond himself back in 2013/14, a once in a generation event.

I get it, people don't like we have left the EU, likewise the supporters of Scottish Independence don't like still being part of the UK. But that I am afraid is democracy.

We have to all collectively work with the hand we have been dealt and make it the best possible outcome it can be.

In around 20 - 30 years, then by all means have another referendum.

 

[pinnit2014]

People harping on about rejoining the EU are the same as the Nationalists north of Carlisle who keep on banging the drum for another independence referendum.

Sorry but referendums are not General Elections. They are, as asserted by Alex Salmond himself back in 2013/14, a once in a generation event.

I get it, people don't like we have left the EU, likewise the supporters of Scottish Independence don't like still being part of the UK. But that I am afraid is democracy.

We have to all collectively work with the hand we have been dealt and make it the best possible outcome it can be.

In around 20 - 30 years, then by all means have another referendum.

Well, not all the time....

Lisbon Treaty and Ireland?

 

[Webzcas]

Oh yes, when the EU put pressure on Ireland to rerun the vote. Sound similar? LOL

 

[pinnit2014]

Did they not come out with: We'll just keep putting it to you until you say yes? (

In Holyrood in Scotland, whilst she wouldn't admit it, that's what Nicky S is saying to her cronies

 

[Webzcas]

SNP are a one policy party who are unable to even launch a ferry let alone administer properly the departments devolved to the Scottish Parliament.

Notice they are not saying much about Pincher, would it be because Blackford rallied the SNP troops ( MPs ) to support Grady??? hmmmm

Sorry, but the SNP IMO are a hate filled party, who only care about sowing discord and division. They hate anything south of Gretna and do not care about how Scotland would operate as an independent country, as long as Scotland is no longer in a union with those damn Sassenachs, that is all that matters.

However, now that Special Agent Johnson has been usurped, Sturgeon's PretendyRef plans have been all but holed below the waterline.

 

[dunover]

SNP are a one policy party who are unable to even launch a ferry let alone administer properly the departments devolved to the Scottish Parliament.

Notice they are not saying much about Pincher, would it be because Blackford rallied the SNP troops ( MPs ) to support Grady??? hmmmm

Sorry, but the SNP IMO are a hate filled party, who only care about sowing discord and division. They hate anything south of Gretna and do not care about how Scotland would operate as an independent country, as long as Scotland is no longer in a union with those damn Sassenachs, that is all that matters.

However, now that Special Agent Johnson has been usurped, Sturgeon's PretendyRef plans have been all but holed below the waterline.

View attachment 169906

Shame we didn't express such childish sentiments when thousands of Scots came down to populate towns like Corby when the giant steelworks was open etc.

Far more important than these two clowns is the fact that on every continent there are cemeteries where Smith, Jones, MacDonald and Murphy lie side by side in a period of 300 years or more, having built the most successful and inventive country in the history of mankind between them and in three or more instances sacrificed themselves in their thousands for the freedom of the rest of the world by the UK refusing to kow-tow to dictators from Napoleon to Hitler. Without which you wouldn't have a precious EU, or UN.

So stroppy Sturgeon and her power-mad cronies may get her erected outside Holyrood in the form of a modern day bronze Bodicea eventually, paid for in Euros but they won't change history....

 

[dpp00]

Did they not come out with: We'll just keep putting it to you until you say yes? (

In Holyrood in Scotland, whilst she wouldn't admit it, that's what Nicky S is saying to her cronies

yes indeed i was here for that vote i remember well the minister live on radio saying well just keep havin it till we get the right answer,

of course also well to remember oxfam put us in the top 15 most corrupt country's in the world obviously well out of date

cause were easily in the top 6

 

[dunover]

'Chav' Rayner eh?

Here's Johnson's new (and I swear I'm not making this up)...... Education Secretary.

View attachment 169809

Yes, a finger, but at least she didn't whip up her dress and give a quick flash of her clout. Slightly classier than LieBore.

I'm waiting for one of the candidates to pull a moonie next time....

 

[Spikie]

The Euro is getting hammered at the moment, the exchange rate is today at parity with the USD , last time this happened was in 2002.

 

[sufferinsilence]

So, what's the consensus on Brexiting "Mo Farah"?

 

[goatwack]

Hussain was going to get Hussexited, but the cops decided it happened way too long ago to care, so we'll be keeping the Mo-bot and knighthood

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Brexit described as a 'nightmare' by, erm, Grant Shapps.

Admitting it's been a nightmare means either:

1. It need not have been and Brexit has been bungled, or

2. We were lied to, and they knew it was going to be a nightmare.

 

[bamberfishcake]

Brexit described as a 'nightmare' by, erm, Grant Shapps.

Admitting it's been a nightmare means either:

1. It need not have been and Brexit has been bungled, or

2. We were lied to, and they knew it was going to be a nightmare.

People act like it's surprising that the UK government have fucked up. They fuck everything, so it's no surprise that Brexit has been bungled.

To leave though, was the decision of the people. Anything after that is down to the clowns you keep voting in each time

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Well the Tories have had a straight run at it for twelve years now, and the 'nightmare' of a 'bungled' Brexit (not my words!) wouldn't have happened at all if Cameron hadn't shit his pants at the sight of Farage closing in on his flanks, and therefore decided to go down the referendum route in the first place.

It's worth remembering that if we rewind to early 2016, the EU was hardly on the radar of what most voters were even remotely concerned about.

 

[Mr_Slot5]

Well the Tories have had a straight run at it for twelve years now, and the 'nightmare' of a 'bungled' Brexit (not my words!) wouldn't have happened at all if Cameron hadn't shit his pants at the sight of Farage closing in on his flanks, and therefore decided to go down the referendum route in the first place.

It's worth remembering that if we rewind to early 2016, the EU was hardly on the radar of what most voters were even remotely concerned about.

So you preach democracy yet are saying the referendum should never have happened?

I’ll say something, if we’d been given a referendum over the Lisbon Treaty and people felt like they had more say, Brexit would probably never have happened.

 

[goatwack]

What's of most concern is the incessant repetition of people incapable of simply accepting a result that didn't go their way, as their way is the only way. Nor the acceptance that sometimes results are shown to be close, with fine margins determining the victor, as was the case with ol' Brexit.

It was the result of the time, and has been reverse-engineered to within an inch of its life to suit, as though it's the only contentious democratic process to have ever not lived up to its promise

Strange then to be of the belief that the CM readership, or even on an individual basis is to be held to account on behalf of a historic event that none of us could have altered if we tried. And yet, we'll hear the same regurgitated utterings as though anything will be changed somehow.

I never once envisaged Brexit to have been something short-term, with lands overflowing with milk and honey, much like any serious political act that was historically as fraught as this one, but rather a generational outcome whose 'yields' we'd not witness for a good number of years yet.

Yet somehow Brexit is 'the one' that brings instant dividends ?

Still no word or thoughts on how we could all move forward, or anything constructive of note, you know, as we're all stuck with it now. Because seemingly shouting "Brexit was a travesty!" ad infinitum is the catalyst that nullifies the original Referendum - or so I'm told!

 

[TheAddict]

Holy shit, its been 6 years? 2191 days spent waking up and reading brexit moans on twitter. Savage.

 

[goatwack]

Holy shit, its been 6 years? 2191 days spent waking up and reading brexit moans on twitter. Savage.

You used the online calculator for that, didn't you. Don't deny it

 

[ChopleyIOM]

So you preach democracy yet are saying the referendum should never have happened?

I’ll say something, if we’d been given a referendum over the Lisbon Treaty and people felt like they had more say, Brexit would probably never have happened.

The referendum never needed to be called in the first place, it was basically a cowardly act by Cameron because he didn't have the moral courage to fight off Farage's racist anti-immigrant baiting rhetoric and have a sensible debate around the legitimate concerns their were around the EU, and instead took the easier option of pledging to hold a referendum.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

What's of most concern is the incessant repetition of people incapable of simply accepting a result that didn't go their way, as their way is the only way. Nor the acceptance that sometimes results are shown to be close, with fine margins determining the victor, as was the case with ol' Brexit.

It was the result of the time, and has been reverse-engineered to within an inch of its life to suit, as though it's the only contentious democratic process to have ever not lived up to its promise

Strange then to be of the belief that the CM readership, or even on an individual basis is to be held to account on behalf of a historic event that none of us could have altered if we tried. And yet, we'll hear the same regurgitated utterings as though anything will be changed somehow.

I never once envisaged Brexit to have been something short-term, with lands overflowing with milk and honey, much like any serious political act that was historically as fraught as this one, but rather a generational outcome whose 'yields' we'd not witness for a good number of years yet.

Yet somehow Brexit is 'the one' that brings instant dividends ?

Still no word or thoughts on how we could all move forward, or anything constructive of note, you know, as we're all stuck with it now. Because seemingly shouting "Brexit was a travesty!" ad infinitum is the catalyst that nullifies the original Referendum - or so I'm told!

Because Brexit isn't finished yet, as demonstrated by the fact the UK is on the brink of breaking international law over the Northern Ireland Protocol. There are still debates to be had around things we could align with the EU on in terms of regulation to ease some of the mountains of red tape that British exporters are drowning in and that has caused many importers to simply not bother with the UK at all.

The referendum was just 'in or out' of the EU, it didn't even specify that we should leave the Single Market and Customs Union, but that was the road Theresa May decided to go down, and Boris Johnson saw to conclusion.

It's not about nullifying the referendum and its results, the UK left the EU, it happened, but our current and future relationship with the EU is not set in stone, it can and will alter as the months and years roll by, in all kinds of ways that don't involve rejoining.

The first step in fixing a problem is acknowledging that there is one, and Brexit is causing us all sorts of problems that we need to work on fixing.

 

[paul7388]

Surprised you have not mentioned yet Chopley how the Euro is at its lowest ever and now less than a dollar. So guess even without Brexit we would be fucked as I am sure you know.

All the things you are mentioning going wrong in UK are happening in Europe.
High inflation. Petrol and fuel prices sky high. Cost of living going through the roof.

But we know none of that fits your narrative . Let's just blame all the UK problems on Brexit when the rest of Europe is suffering the same.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Surprised you have not mentioned yet Chopley how the Euro is at its lowest ever and now less than a dollar. So guess even without Brexit we would be fucked as I am sure you know.

All the things you are mentioning going wrong in UK are happening in Europe.
High inflation. Petrol and fuel prices sky high. Cost of living going through the roof.

But we know none of that fits your narrative . Let's just blame all the UK problems on Brexit when the rest of Europe is suffering the same.

Sheesh this is hard work. I don't blame 'all' the UK's problems on Brexit, (find me one single post where I ever say that, spoiler alert, you won't), I cite it as contributory factor to the problems the UK is facing. It's an extra drag on the UK and its economy, on top of the other worldwide pressures that other economies are facing, and we are facing too.

 

[paul7388]

Sheesh this is hard work. I don't blame 'all' the UK's problems on Brexit, (find me one single post where I ever say that, spoiler alert, you won't), I cite it as contributory factor to the problems the UK is facing. It's an extra drag on the UK and its economy, on top of the other worldwide pressures that other economies are facing, and we are facing too.

So okay we know the problems Britain has. So tell me how we would actually be better of if still in Europe.

As people keep saying and you seem to avoid the whole of Europe is in same mess as us. And they can't blame it on Brexit. So where is the actual evidence Brexit has made things so much worse.

As all the things you mention happening here partly to do with Brexit are happening in every country. In fact things are actually worse in some.

 

[Spikie]

So okay we know the problems Britain has. So tell me how we would actually be better of if still in Europe.

As people keep saying and you seem to avoid the whole of Europe is in same mess as us. And they can't blame it on Brexit. So where is the actual evidence Brexit has made things so much worse.

As all the things you mention happening here partly to do with Brexit are happening in every country. In fact things are actually worse in some.

There is no evidence…. Inflation is insanely high around the world . All governments are hated by the people on the street in every country .

Same shit. Different countries.

But it is harder to take a ham sandwich across the border , that is obviously catastrophic ?

I smuggle beef OXO cubes in my suitcase every time I fly , and I’m not in prison so far ?


I might start smuggling Heinz baked beans too , currently 1.80 euro a tin in the supermarkets . I remember when it was around 20p a can …

 

[ChopleyIOM]

A withering assessment of the impact of Brexit on the UK's travel industry, it has been absolutely ruinous and it won't be getting better anytime soon. UK Gov has been myopic and useless (no surprises there).

 

[interlog]

And here was me thinking that the staff shortages was as a result of Covid when staff were layed off and the slow reaction by Companies recruiting in a timely manner when the travel restrictions were lifted.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

And here was me thinking that the staff shortages was as a result of Covid when staff were layed off and the slow reaction by Companies recruiting in a timely manner when the travel restrictions were lifted.

Well that's what the report is about, from within the actual industry itself, that concludes Brexit has been an absolute disaster for the UK's travel industry - with all the evidence to prove it.

 

[interlog]

Well that's what the report is about, from within the actual industry itself, that concludes Brexit has been an absolute disaster for the UK's travel industry - with all the evidence to prove it.

So you're saying that what I said was wrong then?

 

[paul7388]

Well that's what the report is about, from within the actual industry itself, that concludes Brexit has been an absolute disaster for the UK's travel industry - with all the evidence to prove it.

Maybe it was.

But I would be more Inclined to think the fact Covid cancelled all holidays. Put some Airlines out of business, cancelled most flights laying off the majority of staff would have had a much more major impact.

I mean this is the first summer in last 3 years where holidays are getting booked in vast numbers. And even then covid is still causing problems.

But yeah fact Covid has basically ruined the travel industry. Shut many hotels and businesses. Laid off the majority of airline staff that are hard to now replace does not sound as good. Blaming it on Brexit is way better lol.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

So you're saying that what I said was wrong then?

Did you watch the clip? It's only two minutes long.

As the guy says, the UK travel industry employed a large number of EU workers, a lot of them went home during Covid and haven't bothered to return because of all the hassle and red tape involved in coming back to the UK, so they've just remained and worked in the EU.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Maybe it was.

But I would be more Inclined to think the fact Covid cancelled all holidays. Put some Airlines out of business, cancelled most flights laying off the majority of staff would have had a much more major impact.

Yes, and that is why it's important that we listen to, y'know, the actual travel industry and its representatives on this issue, because they know the facts of the case, more so, I would suggest, than those of us pontificating about it on a set of online casino forums. (And I include myself in that, so when the UK travel industry issues a report that says Brexit has been a disaster, and lists all the reasons for it, and cites its evidence, I listen to what they're saying, because they know more about it than I do.)

 

[interlog]

Did you watch the clip? It's only two minutes long.

As the guy says, the UK travel industry employed a large number of EU workers, a lot of them went home during Covid and haven't bothered to return because of all the hassle and red tape involved in coming back to the UK, so they've just remained and worked in the EU.

I don't give two hoots about the guys opinion, cause that is what it is.

Here is a fact for you. I went on holiday recently and experienced the following problems: (1) airport lounge closed due to staff shortages (2) chaos at airport security due to staff shortages (2) some of the hotel restaurants closed due to staff shortages

Location of incidents: Crete

Shall we blame that on Brexit too shall we?

Nope, it was because they are struggling to recruit since the pandamic

 

[interlog]

Breaking news: Dutch airport struggling with staff because of Brexit

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[paul7388]

Yes, and that is why it's important that we listen to, y'know, the actual travel industry and its representatives on this issue, because they know the facts of the case, more so, I would suggest, than those of us pontificating about it on a set of online casino forums. (And I include myself in that, so when the UK travel industry issues a report that says Brexit has been a disaster, and lists all the reasons for it, and cites its evidence, I listen to what they're saying, because they know more about it than I do.)

Other reports also say Covid destroyed the travel Industry.

Seriously I can give you the benefit of the doubt about price rises and trade etc.

But clear fact is Coronavirus destroyed the tourism. Look at all the cases of no tourists hotels closed. Airlines went bust as no flights. Sustained period of no travel abroad leading to airline staff and airport staff getting made redundant.

Was going to say you can not seriously believe Brexit caused more damage than Covid to travel industry but actually believe you do.

Let's see. What would cause more damage. Red tape and more restrictions entering other countries. Or having no bloody flights or way to enter the countries as it is banned.

I know what one most would see causing the most damage, yet you still argue not true lol.

 

[paul7388]

Okay was thinking of a simpler way to put things. So let's ask Chopley for your honest opinion on this idea as i believe you are an intelligent man.

Let's forget about Covid , Brexit and all the other stuff going on .

Say you owned an airline. What in your honest opinion would cause your airline most damage.

1. Having more red tape, delays entering other countries and added expenses.

Or 2. Not being able to enter any countries at all. Having all your flights grounded for a year. Having to lay-off your staff as no income etc.

So would you say 1 or 2. I know just about everyone would say obviously number 2 would cause more damage. Do you agree or are you still saying number 1.

 

[interlog]

Okay was thinking of a simpler way to put things. So let's ask Chopley for your honest opinion on this idea as i believe you are an intelligent man.

Let's forget about Covid , Brexit and all the other stuff going on .

Say you owned an airline. What in your honest opinion would cause your airline most damage.

1. Having more red tape, delays entering other countries and added expenses.

Or 2. Not being able to enter any countries at all. Having all your flights grounded for a year. Having to lay-off your staff as no income etc.

So would you say 1 or 2. I know just about everyone would say obviously number 2 would cause more damage. Do you agree or are you still saying number 1.

The mere fact that across Europe and the world airlines and airports are experiencing problems and are cancelling flights should tell anybody it has nothing to do with it all having to do with Brexit

 

[paul7388]

Did you watch the clip? It's only two minutes long.

As the guy says, the UK travel industry employed a large number of EU workers, a lot of them went home during Covid and haven't bothered to return because of all the hassle and red tape involved in coming back to the UK, so they've just remained and worked in the EU.

Just reread that and noticed.

You are blaming it on Brexit. Yet you say yourself the guy said Covid made the workers return home not Brexit. Brexit might make it harder to return but Covid was reason they left in first place. So obviously Covid had bigger impact as without it they would not have been forced home lol.