Brexit - whats the difference.....

[Playford7]

Good morning fellow CM posters, this morning the UK has woken to stormy conditions I would like to point out this is not brexit related and the storm will soon pass in fact the mighty independent UK will push the storm into Europe and our shores will be left calm and sunny by Tuesday.

I was told leaving the EU was the cause of this stormy weather...

 

[steveh35]

EU commission reports Scotland's SNP to Brussels police for Brexit eve stunt.

Haha oh Nicola perhaps the EU don't love you as much as you think they do.

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[goatwack]

She has a brave heart, that Sturgeon

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Border checks? Project Fear!

And dear old Mr Johnson promised us there'd be no such thing, and he always keeps his word.

Oh.

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[ChopleyIOM]

What a difference an election makes.....

 

[sufferinsilence]

Let's wait for a poster who thinks that's fine tho, even if it's a broken promise.

 

[Playford7]

What a difference an election makes.....

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These things happen mate.
Seriously don’t be worried, Boris and the mastermind Cummings have it all in order.
The sky hasn’t fallen, we havnt all been infected with some super std as they said.
People are not losing jobs and Phillip schofield is gay.
All this anti-brexit nonsense is of no relevance mate. I’m just hoping for a massive no deal when the time comes.
also the labour in-fighting is most concerning, starmer the messiah of leave within labour has breached rules and being accused of most abhorrent things.. from labour haha
Couldn’t make this up, it’s like labour are eating labour haha

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Let's wait for a poster who thinks that's fine tho, even if it's a broken promise.

I'll see your 'broken promises are fine' and raise you an 'it's what I voted for'.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

This is a hugely significant development, the implications for British businesses and consumers can't really be overstated.

Brexit always meant everything getting more expensive, right? That was all part of the plan?

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Great podcast here but I'm only specifically recommending 90 seconds of it from 18m30s to 20m0s and you'll understand how it's going to go down before the start of 2021.

Johnson will give the EU enough of what it wants, and then just lie about it, correctly basing this strategy on enough folks thinking Brexit is 'done' and the detail of what happens next is too boring and complex for people to really care about.

(Either something very much like this will happen, or he really will go for a psycho No Deal style scenario, which would be pretty horrible.)

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[steveh35]

Great podcast here but I'm only specifically recommending 90 seconds of it from 18m30s to 20m0s and you'll understand how it's going to go down before the start of 2021.

Johnson will give the EU enough of what it wants, and then just lie about it, correctly basing this strategy on enough folks thinking Brexit is 'done' and the detail of what happens next is too boring and complex for people to really care about.

(Either something very much like this will happen, or he really will go for a psycho No Deal style scenario, which would be pretty horrible.)

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You link a 20 min "great" podcast but only recommend 90 seconds hmmm

 

[mack341]

The EU want close alignment, supposedly it's the french that are most obsessed about this, could be the old rivalry rearing its ugly head.

I thought there would be a uk civil servant fudge and they, in conjunction with the EU negotiators, would twist boris's arm, but I'm not sure he can give them the main items they want, future alignment with eu rules and using their court of choice to resolve disagreements. [interpretations etc..]

The main agreement/sticking points need to be resolved soon, however I wouldn't be overly concerned with no deal/wto terms if it means we can have more freedom to negotiate with countries around the world, and don't have to effectively pretend we're still in the EU and must follow their rules.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

You link a 20 min "great" podcast but only recommend 90 seconds hmmm

Oh by all means listen to the whole thing but it covers several subjects and it's a bit of a big ask to expect people to listen to a 48 minute podcast whilst wondering 'OK but what's the point?' - hence me condensing what I consider to be the most salient point into a couple of sentences and directing folks at a good summary of that in the podcast itself.

It ties in to what I've said before in this thread, there's a good chance now that Johnson will concede bucketloads of stuff to the EU before the end of the year (which realistically, is the only chance he'll get any sort of decent trade deal), and simply rebrand it (or outright lie about it, as he has the NI situation) as some sort of grand negotiating success, and the EU will go along with it as they've got what they want anyway. (As they did with Johnson throwing NI under the bus and proclaiming it as a grand UK negotiating victory and Barnier kept an admirably straight face.)

The GET BREXIT DONE tagline was very clever, because now Jane from Cheadle is happy that BREXIT IS DONE and her VOTE HAS BEEN RESPECTED and she really won't be paying any attention to trade deals that talk about Paragraph 34 Subsection 8 Clause 4b.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

The main agreement/sticking points need to be resolved soon, however I wouldn't be overly concerned with no deal/wto terms if it means we can have more freedom to negotiate with countries around the world, and don't have to effectively pretend we're still in the EU and must follow their rules.

The thing is mack, I still don't see why anyone thinks the UK is going to be any better at negotiating trade deals than the EU.

There are basically two types of country in the world:

1) Those that already have a trade deal with the EU, and therefore we are by default walking out on that trade deal and have to try and negotiate the same or better by ourselves. (Hint - we won't.)

2) Countries who don't currently have a trade deal with the EU, but want one. i.e. Australia. These countries are going to be keener to do a deal with the EU than us, simply due to the size of the EU trading bloc.

OK there are some that don't fall into either category, but seriously, who do think's going to come off best in a trade negotiation between the UK and the USA. (UK, hasn't negotiated a single trade deal since EU membership, or the USA, which has teams of the hardest nosed trade negotiators in the world.)

 

[goatwack]

The thing is mack, I still don't see why anyone thinks the UK is going to be any better at negotiating trade deals than the EU.

There are basically two types of country in the world:

1) Those that already have a trade deal with the EU, and therefore we are by default walking out on that trade deal and have to try and negotiate the same or better by ourselves. (Hint - we won't.)

2) Countries who don't currently have a trade deal with the EU, but want one. i.e. Australia. These countries are going to be keener to do a deal with the EU than us, simply due to the size of the EU trading bloc.

OK there are some that don't fall into either category, but seriously, who do think's going to come off best in a trade negotiation between the UK and the USA. (UK, hasn't negotiated a single trade deal since EU membership, or the USA, which has teams of the hardest nosed trade negotiators in the world.)

You've obviously never played The Patrician on Atari-ST

 

[mack341]

The thing is mack, I still don't see why anyone thinks the UK is going to be any better at negotiating trade deals than the EU.

There are basically two types of country in the world:

1) Those that already have a trade deal with the EU, and therefore we are by default walking out on that trade deal and have to try and negotiate the same or better by ourselves. (Hint - we won't.)

2) Countries who don't currently have a trade deal with the EU, but want one. i.e. Australia. These countries are going to be keener to do a deal with the EU than us, simply due to the size of the EU trading bloc.

OK there are some that don't fall into either category, but seriously, who do think's going to come off best in a trade negotiation between the UK and the USA. (UK, hasn't negotiated a single trade deal since EU membership, or the USA, which has teams of the hardest nosed trade negotiators in the world.)

yes but when the EU negotiate a trade deal they have to [supposedly] take into account all 27 members interests which of course may diverge, so they have to negotiate amongst themselves at the beginning and during trade talks. Not sure how the veto works in that situation but it must be like horse trading to get greece, portugal, italy, germany etc.. to agree on all aspects.

So it should be a simpler more focused process for the uk to negotiate trade deals singularly, it is true the US would dominate the uk but you don't kill off important [military/political] allies if you're sensible. We've got some of the best lawyers and experts on trade etc..which also gives us an advantage.

If the economies of PIGS decline further I can see that being a big problem to the EU, they may want out, or they may need extra money from the richer members of the EU.

I think at the end of the day nothing much will change for the uk, but it will be interesting how the 'fudged' agreement with the EU will play out; the hs2 decision shows this newly elected bojo govt like govts before will easily ignore the public will/wishes whenever they want to.

 

[vorcirion]

yes but when the EU negotiate a trade deal they have to [supposedly] take into account all 27 members interests which of course may diverge, so they have to negotiate amongst themselves at the beginning and during trade talks. Not sure how the veto works in that situation but it must be like horse trading to get greece, portugal, italy, germany etc.. to agree on all aspects.

So it should be a simpler more focused process for the uk to negotiate trade deals singularly, it is true the US would dominate the uk but you don't kill off important [military/political] allies if you're sensible. We've got some of the best lawyers and experts on trade etc..which also gives us an advantage.

If the economies of PIGS decline further I can see that being a big problem to the EU, they may want out, or they may need extra money from the richer members of the EU.

I think at the end of the day nothing much will change for the uk, but it will be interesting how the 'fudged' agreement with the EU will play out; the hs2 decision shows this newly elected bojo govt like govts before will easily ignore the public will/wishes whenever they want to.

Trump's US hasn't been sensible. They happily go after allies too so there's that.
Once EU has an agreement with its member states how to proceed with the UK...EU can use its economical power to force UK to make necessary concessions to make all EU member states happy. It's silly to read how UK has the better position here You're not the empire you used to be.

 

[steveh35]

Trump's US hasn't been sensible. They happily go after allies too so there's that.
Once EU has an agreement with its member states how to proceed with the UK...EU can use its economical power to force UK to make necessary concessions to make all EU member states happy. It's silly to read how UK has the better position here You're not the empire you used to be.

We shall see don't underestimate the power of the UK you might be in for a shock if you think we are a pushover.

 

[Playford7]

 

[Slottery]

Boris not happy to his staff?

 

[Playford7]

Boris not happy to his staff?

Well now our great leader has the power he’s able to dispose of them against what he’s wanting.
with the great professor Cummings behind him like a evil genius this great government is unstoppable.
we saw crazy Lisa nandy yesterday spewing her support for the trans community, so with in labour ironically it’s for the minority not the majority.
no wonder labour havnt a chance for at least ten years ha!
cheers momentum! your doing us blues a massive favour

 

[Nik]

Boris not happy to his staff?

you mean Dominic Cummings ...

 

[Slottery]

you mean Dominic Cummings ...

Sorry, i thought Boris is the great mastermind behind everything and Dom just his scout boy

 

[Nik]

Sorry, i thought Boris is the great mastermind behind everything and Dom just his scout boy

Dom is an unelected bureaucrat. The UK didn’t like the bureaucrats in the EU and decided to create their own ...

 

[mack341]

We've always had powerful bureaucrats influencing elected politicians but if their advice is bad and yet followed the elected politician will feel the heat from the voter, and policy can change that way.

That mechanism isn't available in the EU, it would actually be a good idea if the EU citizens were allowed to vote on who is the president, he/she could then run on a platfom of ideas and promises with a 4 year term?

 

[Playford7]

Dom is an unelected bureaucrat. The UK didn’t like the bureaucrats in the EU and decided to create their own ...

Silly point. He’s a advisor, we don’t elect advisors.
he’s also played labour perfectly and orchestrated brexit like Mozart.
The man is a composer of sanity and winning, call him mad, crazy or unelected (that’s not even a rationale argument)
But he’s certainly doing his job perfectly as intended.
Long may it continue.

 

[sufferinsilence]

Time for some comic relief once again.



Yes, I know nothing's changed yet and this was due to training new staff but atleast someone's getting used to what might happen in 2021.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Person who voted for less free movement upset to find that he now moves less freely.

 

[mack341]

No doubt if the immigration staff are EU based they're going to look at every detail slowly, probably been instructed to, all part of the game to make brits feel bad and that they made a mistake deciding to leave.

You'd think this leave voter would think a bit before posting like this, giving ammunition to the obsessed remainers like James Felton.

 

[steveh35]

What are you lot on about nothing has changed yet so if this person is stuck in a queue it isn't Brexit related stop trying to be clever.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

No doubt if the immigration staff are EU based they're going to look at every detail slowly, probably been instructed to, all part of the game to make brits feel bad and that they made a mistake deciding to leave.

You'd think this leave voter would think a bit before posting like this, giving ammunition to the obsessed remainers like James Felton.

Ahhh yes, 'The EU are punishing us' narrative

Brexit has consequences, we were told it was all sunny uplands, all the benefits and none of the costs or responsibilities.

For now we're still in transition, but come next January we'll just be another third country to the EU, and will be treated as such. It turns out the German car manufacturers and French cheese makers don't get to override EU policy after all.

 

[steveh35]

Ahhh yes, 'The EU are punishing us' narrative

Brexit has consequences, we were told it was all sunny uplands, all the benefits and none of the costs or responsibilities.

For now we're still in transition, but come next January we'll just be another third country to the EU, and will be treated as such. It turns out the German car manufacturers and French cheese makers don't get to override EU policy after all.

Like Australia, Canada, The US...... all those countries that cannot survive outside the EU....

 

[mack341]

I never for once thought it'd all be sunny uplands, that was not the issue, you can have temporary good and bad times economically, it was about restoring sovereignty and getting out of this EU straitjacket racket.

@ChopleyIOM how about the EU president having to be elected by the EU citizens, I mentioned this yesterday, wouldn't that improve the democracy of the whole thing?

 

[interlog]

Oh by all means listen to the whole thing but it covers several subjects and it's a bit of a big ask to expect people to listen to a 48 minute podcast whilst wondering 'OK but what's the point?' - hence me condensing what I consider to be the most salient point into a couple of sentences and directing folks at a good summary of that in the podcast itself.

It ties in to what I've said before in this thread, there's a good chance now that Johnson will concede bucketloads of stuff to the EU before the end of the year (which realistically, is the only chance he'll get any sort of decent trade deal), and simply rebrand it (or outright lie about it, as he has the NI situation) as some sort of grand negotiating success, and the EU will go along with it as they've got what they want anyway. (As they did with Johnson throwing NI under the bus and proclaiming it as a grand UK negotiating victory and Barnier kept an admirably straight face.)

The GET BREXIT DONE tagline was very clever, because now Jane from Cheadle is happy that BREXIT IS DONE and her VOTE HAS BEEN RESPECTED and she really won't be paying any attention to trade deals that talk about Paragraph 34 Subsection 8 Clause 4b.

You mean just like your videos then that contain a lot of waffle that ultimately get to the point

 

[09237653]

Like Australia, Canada, The US...... all those countries that cannot survive outside the EU....

Australia, Canada and The US are not located in and heavily reliant on trade from/through the EU though.

 

[steveh35]

Australia, Canada and The US are not located in and heavily reliant on trade from/through the EU though.

Switzerland, Norway, Iceland all survive and thrive fine outside the EU.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Quite. As a former Australian Prime Minister felt the need to point out.....

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[steveh35]

Quite. As a former Australian Prime Minister felt the need to point out.....

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View attachment 123206

Or the world's largest dictatorship as it should say, all those poor people in Norway what do they do not being in the club they must all be starving and jobless and begging for help.

 

[vorcirion]

Switzerland, Norway, Iceland all survive and thrive fine outside the EU.

Switzerland has their banks + nazi gold etc. Norway has a lot of oil. Iceland is well...Iceland. Pretty poor examples

 

[steveh35]

Switzerland has their banks + nazi gold etc. Norway has a lot of oil. Iceland is well...Iceland. Pretty poor examples

What ridiculous reasons, oil is on the way out especially for cars and middle east issues and saying Iceland is Iceland is just plain childish and proves you have lost the argument.

 

[Nik]

Switzerland, Norway, Iceland all survive and thrive fine outside the EU.

just in case you are not aware - all of the above mentioned countries are members of the EEA and are part of the Single Market ... the same market the UK wants to leave . Just saying

edited: And yes you are right - they are doing very well indeed !

 

[steveh35]

just in case you are not aware - all of the above mentioned countries are members of the EEA and are part of the Single Market ... the same market the UK wants to leave . Just saying

They are still not in the EU club.

 

[09237653]

Would that not also be the same single market they said we would stay in after leaving as most brexiteers promised before the referendum.

 

[vorcirion]

What ridiculous reasons, oil is on the way out especially for cars and middle east issues and saying Iceland is Iceland is just plain childish and proves you have lost the argument.

Iceland's population is 370k or so. It's pretty dumb to give Iceland as an example for this situation. Norway got plenty of money from oil for their wealth funds. It's like 1 trillion $ or something? (200k$ per person in Norway). So how about you give me better examples? Unless you've stockpiled some sheep worth of 200k per person in UK.

 

[sufferinsilence]

No doubt if the immigration staff are EU based they're going to look at every detail slowly, probably been instructed to, all part of the game to make brits feel bad and that they made a mistake deciding to leave.

You'd think this leave voter would think a bit before posting like this, giving ammunition to the obsessed remainers like James Felton.

I remember back in the days when we would go over to the UK the immigration stuff was a pain in the ass. Only ever on the British side I had to show my bags multiple times over, coming back we always passed customs without issues.

Anyway, I did post under the gentleman's tweet I know nothing's changed yet and this had another reason. He didn't at the time and was already annoyed

 

[sufferinsilence]

Iceland's population is 370k or so. It's pretty dumb to give Iceland as an example for this situation. Norway got plenty of money from oil for their wealth funds. It's like 1 trillion $ or something? (200k$ per person in Norway). So how about you give me better examples? Unless you've stockpiled some sheep worth of 200k per person in UK.

They were going on about their fishing rights so I guess it's fish instead of sheep.

 

[Playford7]

Iceland's population is 370k or so. It's pretty dumb to give Iceland as an example for this situation. Norway got plenty of money from oil for their wealth funds. It's like 1 trillion $ or something? (200k$ per person in Norway). So how about you give me better examples? Unless you've stockpiled some sheep worth of 200k per person in UK.

We have a goat on here we can sell

 

[paul7388]

We have a goat on here we can sell

Sell him f*ck all.

Just give him away if anyone will take him

 

[goatwack]

I'm cheap like that. For the right price you can have all the free movement and trade you desire

Just no Brexit Brough stuff

 

[mack341]

I remember back in the days when we would go over to the UK the immigration stuff was a pain in the ass. Only ever on the British side I had to show my bags multiple times over, coming back we always passed customs without issues.

Anyway, I did post under the gentleman's tweet I know nothing's changed yet and this had another reason. He didn't at the time and was already annoyed

Yes that was when we had a top tier border force... now they're more obsessed about bottles of water, people's trousers and belts, the shoes of elderly british pensioners just in case they've primed them with explosives

I think the twitter bloke was a bit of a plonker, I'm a leave voter, and wouldn't dream of moaning about that queue and blaming it on brexit, it's amazing how the legions of remainers find these posts, so far it's had 36 thousand replies and 8 thousand retweets, the majority no doubt ardent remainers [not including you in that btw, just the brit eu remainiacs]

The Brexit journey is bound to be rocky in places, that's the price we will have to pay to get free of the EU dictatorship, not just now but its potential moves in the future. They're not embracing democracy, they oppose populism, so I can see problems down the line.