Brexit - whats the difference.....

[ChopleyIOM]

I recall a few years ago political satirists joking saying "imagine Trump and BJ were in power at the same time". Miraculously it has come true. Yesterday we have Trump posting a picture of a dog "That caught and killed the ISIS leader". BJ is just subservient to his banking masters. Wouldn't surprise me if this was all part of some shorting scheme on Sterling.

Oh make no mistake some people will be getting very rich out of all of this, just not the folks who voted for it.......

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Heh.

 

[EkJR]

Oh make no mistake some people will be getting very rich out of all of this, just not the folks who voted for it.......

The uncertainty will be making some super rich. They will keep extending this deadline until they have extracted every last copper they can.

 

[steveh35]

The majority in Parliament is ensuring the minority government is not getting away unchecked with things the majority don’t want. Democracy.

That would be the democracy of failing to implement the result of the referendum carried out in 2016 by making up laws with John Bercow and refusing an election 3 times.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

No laws have been 'made up' and refusing to grant Johnson his election is entirely within the scope of the Fixed Term Parliament act which was passed by, erm, the UK Parliament.

 

[EkJR]

That would be the democracy of failing to implement the result of the referendum carried out in 2016 by making up laws with John Bercow and refusing an election 3 times.

It's a remain parliament, what do you expect? One thing I would say is that the Mps are not being representative of their communities in instances. Leave places voting remain etc.

 

[steveh35]

No laws have been 'made up' and refusing to grant Johnson his election is entirely within the scope of the Fixed Term Parliament act which was passed by, erm, the UK Parliament.

Someone has caught Jeremy Corbyn running away from an election

 

[thr0b]

It's a remain parliament, what do you expect? One thing I would say is that the Mps are not being representative of their communities in instances. Leave places voting remain etc.

Is it? Are you sure? This parliament has had the opportunity to revoke A50 and to put a new referendum on the table several times. But it hasn’t. This parliament also agreed Boris’ lousy deal could go to a second reading, just not be passed in three days (less time than devoted to reviewing the wild animals in circuses act).

These are not the actions of a“remain” parliament, rather the actions of a parliament not letting an executive action its party policy unchecked.

But that’s the issue with the Leave campaign. Facts don’t matter.

 

[steveh35]

Is it? Are you sure? This parliament has had the opportunity to revoke A50 and to put a new referendum on the table several times. But it hasn’t. This parliament also agreed Boris’ lousy deal could go to a second reading, just not be passed in three days (less time than devoted to reviewing the wild animals in circuses act).

These are not the actions of a“remain” parliament, rather the actions of a parliament not letting an executive action its party policy unchecked.

But that’s the issue with the Leave campaign. Facts don’t matter.

Fact - parliament voted to leave the European Union when article 50 was triggered.
Fact - the SNP & Lib Dems have both stated they do not want to leave the EU and will do whatever it takes to remain.
Face -Jeremy Corbyn has asked for an election 50 times and when he was offered one he has rejected it 3 times.

 

[thr0b]

Corbyn is a tool, but he has consistently said he will vote for an election when No Deal is taken off the table. Which Boris refuses to do, because he wants No Deal. He only went back to the negotiating table when parliament passed an act forcing him to.

 

[steveh35]

Corbyn is a tool, but he has consistently said he will vote for an election when No Deal is taken off the table. Which Boris refuses to do, because he wants No Deal. He only went back to the negotiating table when parliament passed an act forcing him to.

Corbyn wants a general election, then he didn't want one until the EU granted an extension, then he didn't want one until no deal was off the table, now he doesn't want one because it will be dark on 12 December and the students will not be at university and the elderly don't go out in the winter.

Who is the one looking stupid at the moment it isn't Boris because some people open their eyes and see who stopped Brexit and a general election.

The Lib Dums and SNP at least have realised the voters are going to blame them and have woken up to an election.

 

[EkJR]

Is it? Are you sure? This parliament has had the opportunity to revoke A50 and to put a new referendum on the table several times. But it hasn’t. This parliament also agreed Boris’ lousy deal could go to a second reading, just not be passed in three days (less time than devoted to reviewing the wild animals in circuses act).

These are not the actions of a“remain” parliament, rather the actions of a parliament not letting an executive action its party policy unchecked.

But that’s the issue with the Leave campaign. Facts don’t matter.

Totally agree with the last statement, facts do not matter. Everyone voting to be poorer expect the richest. It's crazy shit.

 

[dunover]

The lame excuses Corbum comes up with are incredible. Students will have to go out in the dark - after all, they can't find pubs and bars after dark, can they? The elderly are retired pensioners who can go out in daylight to vote, or do they hibernate from November to March each year?

The simple fact is he doesn't want to risk the little bit of power that's landed in his Trotskyist lap.

Election before Brexit, he knows Liebore will be punished for obstructing it. Election after Brexit, Boris will have the momentum and be seen as the politician who actually got it done. So Corbum is crapping himself either way, so? NO ELECTION!

But hey! At least we won't have to roll our own pigs-in-blankets this Christmas.

 

[mack341]

Many remainers in this thread have often said the EU are the best negotiators, and will drive a hard bargain to get what's best in the EU's interests [which logically may not then coincide with ours in the long term] so any withdrawal deal is likely to contain drawbacks especially if the govt doing the negotiating didn't even have a working majority.

Let's have an election and then negotiate with brussels how you actually leave their club. No deal may be the most sensible option and to negotiate properly you have to be prepared to walk away otherwise you'd just accept anything, this is simple logic the lib dems etc.. seem unable to grasp, they'd rather live in airy-fairy land thinking the EU is wonderful.

One thing corbyn was right about a month ago or so, was asking what were the govt seeking in negotiations, boris replied it had to be kept all secret, but as we have a remain civil service at the top levels advising the govt in negotiations, I'd rather all the main details were on the table for the public to see, especially prior to this general election. So a quick snap election does have the disadvantage of leavers being hoodwinked without proper analysis of future policies, how many times has the british establishment/govt tricked or tried to trick the public?

 

[steveh35]

Totally agree with the last statement, facts do not matter. Everyone voting to be poorer expect the richest. It's crazy shit.

Don't talk such rot, if you was in prison and they said hey we are going to release you next week do you go oh my god no more meals four times a day no roof over my head, no job or do you go I'm getting out and have my freedom?

I just don't get people like EkJR who want to be shackled by this EU club who have no interest in the UK other than our money they are not interested in what is best for each country they are interested in what is best for Brussels.

 

[thr0b]

The lame excuses Corbum comes up with are incredible. Students will have to go out in the dark - after all, they can't find pubs and bars after dark, can they? The elderly are retired pensioners who can go out in daylight to vote, or do they hibernate from November to March each year?

The simple fact is he doesn't want to risk the little bit of power that's landed in his Trotskyist lap.

Election before Brexit, he knows Liebore will be punished for obstructing it. Election after Brexit, Boris will have the momentum and be seen as the politician who actually got it done. So Corbum is crapping himself either way, so? NO ELECTION!

But hey! At least we won't have to roll our own pigs-in-blankets this Christmas.

the student issue is that most are likely not to be registered to vote at their parents addresses, which is where they are likely to be on 12th December. This group is also the group least likely to vote Tory and more likely to vote Lib Dem. That date has been chosen by the Tories for a reason.

 

[EkJR]

Many remainers in this thread have often said the EU are the best negotiators, and will drive a hard bargain to get what's best in the EU's interests [which logically may not then coincide with ours in the long term] so any withdrawal deal is likely to contain drawbacks especially if the govt doing the negotiating didn't even have a working majority.

Let's have an election and then negotiate with brussels how you actually leave their club. No deal may be the most sensible option and to negotiate properly you have to be prepared to walk away otherwise you'd just accept anything, this is simple logic the lib dems etc.. seem unable to grasp, they'd rather live in airy-fairy land thinking the EU is wonderful.

One thing corbyn was right about a month ago or so, was asking what were the govt seeking in negotiations, boris replied it had to be kept all secret, but as we have a remain civil service at the top levels advising the govt in negotiations, I'd rather all the main details were on the table for the public to see, especially prior to this general election. So a quick snap election does have the disadvantage of leavers being hoodwinked without proper analysis of future policies, how many times has the british establishment/govt tricked or tried to trick the public?

No deal is not a sensible option, ever. Day 1 chaos. The economy and markets fucked instantly, hard border in Northern Ireland. Talking of Northern Ireland, not sure why the DUP are so against the deal for NI. They would have had the best of both worlds but can't bring themselves to vote for something that jeopardizes their precious union!

 

[thr0b]

Many remainers in this thread have often said the EU are the best negotiators, and will drive a hard bargain to get what's best in the EU's interests [which logically may not then coincide with ours in the long term] so any withdrawal deal is likely to contain drawbacks especially if the govt doing the negotiating didn't even have a working majority.

Let's have an election and then negotiate with brussels how you actually leave their club. No deal may be the most sensible option and to negotiate properly you have to be prepared to walk away otherwise you'd just accept anything, this is simple logic the lib dems etc.. seem unable to grasp, they'd rather live in airy-fairy land thinking the EU is wonderful.

One thing corbyn was right about a month ago or so, was asking what were the govt seeking in negotiations, boris replied it had to be kept all secret, but as we have a remain civil service at the top levels advising the govt in negotiations, I'd rather all the main details were on the table for the public to see, especially prior to this general election. So a quick snap election does have the disadvantage of leavers being hoodwinked without proper analysis of future policies, how many times has the british establishment/govt tricked or tried to trick the public?

so far, the Tories under Johnson have negotiated a deal that is worse than that they had under May, and gained a border in the Irish Sea which Johnson said only months ago that no Conservative government could ever accept. A truly skilled negotiator. Of the “bend me over and use me” style.

 

[EkJR]

Don't talk such rot, if you was in prison and they said hey we are going to release you next week do you go oh my god no more meals four times a day no roof over my head, no job or do you go I'm getting out and have my freedom?

I just don't get people like EkJR who want to be shackled by this EU club who have no interest in the UK other than our money they are not interested in what is best for each country they are interested in what is best for Brussels.

So unfettered access to a huge market and no tariffs is not a benefit then? Freedom of movement, again not a benefit?

 

[steveh35]

the student issue is that most are likely not to be registered to vote at their parents addresses, which is where they are likely to be on 12th December. This group is also the group least likely to vote Tory and more likely to vote Lib Dem. That date has been chosen by the Tories for a reason.

Just to correct the above most students are registered at both uni and home which is why they could vote twice last time and to be factual correct students finish on the 13 or 20 December and so now we can't have an election over Easter or in July or August or Septmeber because of the students.

Please talk sense.

 

[steveh35]

So unfettered access to a huge market and no tariffs is not a benefit then? Freedom of movement, again not a benefit?

Plenty of countries survive outside the EU I think Australia is pretty self sufficient as is Switzerland (and we know how the EU have tried to manipulate Switzerland this year) there is a world outside the EU it isn't the end of the world not to be in it.

 

[steveh35]

So let's look at it from this point of view

January - no election it will still be dark and might snow
February - no election it will still be dark and might snow
March - no election The clocks are still in winter time so it will be dark
April - no election - Easter students are at home, MPs on recess
May - yes we can have an election
June - yes we can have an election - oh wait people might have gone on holiday early to get cheap prices
July - no election - too hot might reach 36.7c again old people won't go out in the heat and students not at uni
August - no election - MPs' on recess, students at home, too hot
September - no election - students have not returned to uni
October - it's getting darker but a possibility
November - no election - too dark and cold
December - good grief no, too dark, too cold, students on leave, halls full of nativity plays, old people have gone into hibernation, ruin Christmas.

 

[EkJR]

Plenty of countries survive outside the EU I think Australia is pretty self sufficient as is Switzerland (and we know how the EU have tried to manipulate Switzerland this year) there is a world outside the EU it isn't the end of the world not to be in it.

I get that, but this is a huge market on our doorstep. So instead we say, we will have tariffs with our current biggest trading partner so that we can pursue other deals, deals with can take years and years to agree. It's madness!

 

[steveh35]

Corbyn has just agreed to support the election vote tonight

So we are on for an election BRING IT ON!!

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Plenty of countries survive outside the EU I think Australia is pretty self sufficient

So all we need to do now is rewind the clock hundreds of millions of years and ensure that the UK has the vast mineral and oil deposits that Australia does, and we'll be laughing!

Saudi Arabia does pretty well outside the EU as well. I wonder if they have anything to sell that the UK doesn't?

 

[dunover]

Corbum has agreed as said above, already getting flak from his own party.

The idiot wants votes for 16+17 year-olds and EU citizens, I wonder why? I mean EU citizens, isn't that like the Scots having another IndyRef and letting the English vote? It's a BRITISH election for BRITISH citizens. I suppose we can give an extra vote for households with 2 or more cats, or Japanese tourists can have a go too when they're walking around London?

 

[mack341]

Slight side diversion but food for thought for the remain camp

The one good thing about Brexit? Leaving the EU’s disgraceful farming system [by george monbiot of guardianista fame]

"I’m a remainer, but there’s one result of Brexit I can’t wait to see: leaving the EU’s common agricultural policy. This is the farm subsidy system that spends €50bn (£44bn) a year on achieving none of its objectives. It is among the most powerful drivers of environmental destruction in the northern hemisphere. Because payments are made only for land that’s in “agricultural condition”, the system creates a perverse incentive to clear wildlife habitats, even in places unsuitable for farming, to produce the empty ground that qualifies for public money. These payments have led to the destruction of hundreds of thousands of hectares of magnificent wild places across Europe.

Some landowners receive £1m or more. You don’t even have to live in the EU to take this money: you just have to own land here. Among the benefit tourists sucking up public funds in the age of austerity are Russian oligarchs, Saudi princes and Texas oil barons

......Yet even farmers have been hurt by these payments. European subsidies have helped turn farmland into a speculative honeypot, making it highly attractive to City financiers. The price of land has more than doubled since payments by the hectare were introduced, pushing it out of reach of most farmers. By reinforcing economies of scale, these subsidies have driven out small farmers and accelerated the consolidation of land ownership"

 

[EkJR]

Slight side diversion but food for thought for the remain camp

The one good thing about Brexit? Leaving the EU’s disgraceful farming system [by george monbiot of guardianista fame]

"I’m a remainer, but there’s one result of Brexit I can’t wait to see: leaving the EU’s common agricultural policy. This is the farm subsidy system that spends €50bn (£44bn) a year on achieving none of its objectives. It is among the most powerful drivers of environmental destruction in the northern hemisphere. Because payments are made only for land that’s in “agricultural condition”, the system creates a perverse incentive to clear wildlife habitats, even in places unsuitable for farming, to produce the empty ground that qualifies for public money. These payments have led to the destruction of hundreds of thousands of hectares of magnificent wild places across Europe.

Some landowners receive £1m or more. You don’t even have to live in the EU to take this money: you just have to own land here. Among the benefit tourists sucking up public funds in the age of austerity are Russian oligarchs, Saudi princes and Texas oil barons

......Yet even farmers have been hurt by these payments. European subsidies have helped turn farmland into a speculative honeypot, making it highly attractive to City financiers. The price of land has more than doubled since payments by the hectare were introduced, pushing it out of reach of most farmers. By reinforcing economies of scale, these subsidies have driven out small farmers and accelerated the consolidation of land ownership"

It's ok, help the farmers and rest of the economy plunges into darkness. It's cool though, we have a trade deal lined up with the Faroe Islands!

 

[goatwack]

Yes, great idea. Allow foreign nationals and tweens to vote

 

[sledge13]

Complete idiot!
16 year olds can't:
Drive a car
Drink Gamble
Leave education
Fight for their country
Get married
Buy cigarettes
Watch porn
Watch certain films
Go to an adult prison

But Labour Snp Libs etc give them it, we will forge and brainwash!!

 

[paul7388]

Complete idiot!
16 year olds can't:
Drive a car
Drink Gamble
Leave education
Fight for their country
Get married
Buy cigarettes
Watch porn
Watch certain films
Go to an adult prison

But Labour Snp Libs etc give them it, we will forge and brainwash!!

16 year olds can get married and leave education if they wish.

 

[cncas2123]

because facts change.

We elected this parliament to serve for a fixed five years. And the last parliament. Both have been/will be ended early because the Tories don’t like the results they’re getting.

it’s how democracy works. It’s not a one-off event. It’s fluid.

I understand that but isn’t a party manifesto the basis on which each party stands? If the main parties stood on a manifesto that stated they would honour the result of the referendum then obviously they should have carried that through, that’s what politics is all about , and that’s why general elections sort these things out .

 

[Kroffe]

Complete idiot!
16 year olds can't:
Drive a car
Drink Gamble
Leave education
Fight for their country
Get married
Buy cigarettes
Watch porn
Watch certain films
Go to an adult prison

But Labour Snp Libs etc give them it, we will forge and brainwash!!

I have it on good authority that 16 year olds are among the best there is when it comes to watching porn.
Source; Have been 16 years old.

 

[steveh35]

I have it on good authority that 16 year olds are among the best there is when it comes to watching porn.
Source; Have been 16 years old.

Do bears watch porn?

 

[Kroffe]

Do bears watch porn?

Not in the same way you guys do.
Theres this dude called David Attenborough that makes pretty racy videos.
He calls it "Art", but lets be real, its animals from different parts of the world mating.

 

[thr0b]

I understand that but isn’t a party manifesto the basis on which each party stands? If the main parties stood on a manifesto that stated they would honour the result of the referendum then obviously they should have carried that through, that’s what politics is all about , and that’s why general elections sort these things out .

it is reasonable for a party that didn’t win to go against its manifesto, as that manifesto was not successful.If the majority/ruling party goes against, then that’s different.

 

[Mr_Slot5]

With a bit of luck, the chickens will come home to roost and Labour will get trounced at the polling booths.

 

[News Hound]

Order Order! Order Order as UK Set to go to the Polls

 

[goatwack]

Labour are so desperate it wouldn't surprise me if they allow posthumous voters and family pets at the next GE

 

[News Hound]

Labour are so desperate it wouldn't surprise me if they allow posthumous voters and family pets at the next GE

That is actually a very good one LOL

 

[steveh35]

Something to cheer Chopley up

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[goatwack]

Great planning there

They not heard of the Rugby World Cup then

 

[EkJR]

Can someone, in a few bullet points, give me 5 benefits of Brexit?

 

[goatwack]

Can someone, in a few bullet points, give me 5 benefits of Brexit?

Get rid of forinnahs

Save the NHS and that

We'll be rich

Annoy Remainers because

Build trade deals with Samoa & co

 

[Kroffe]

Can someone, in a few bullet points, give me 5 benefits of Brexit?

Cant really speak for team-brexit, but i imagine something along these lines are the hopes.

• Increased independence of action.
• Increased political and economic nationalism.
• Lower immigration.
• Less ‘red tape’.
• Lower contributions to European budgets.
• Being able to make trade deals.
• Laws are proposed by people elected by the people

Edit: Goatwacks list is better.

 

[steveh35]

Can someone, in a few bullet points, give me 5 benefits of Brexit?

Freedom from the laws of the EU
Freedom from the laws of the EU courts
Not sending money to the EU to give to poorer countries
Doing trade deals with any country we choose not who the EU tell us we can trade with
Reduction in political beaurocracy no need for MEP's and have to mess around sending MEP's to European parliament

 

[ChopleyIOM]

A great explanation as to how we're most likely going to end up very closely aligned to the EU as part of a future FTA, and will probably end up choosing it over an FTA with the USA and other countries.

 

[EkJR]

Freedom from the laws of the EU
Freedom from the laws of the EU courts
Not sending money to the EU to give to poorer countries
Doing trade deals with any country we choose not who the EU tell us we can trade with
Reduction in political beaurocracy no need for MEP's and have to mess around sending MEP's to European parliament

Freedom from the laws of the EU? Those things like workers rights and the like. Yeah, that will be great..m

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Freedom from the laws of the EU? Those things like workers rights and the like. Yeah, that will be great..m

Your regular reminder that the UK objected to 72 out of over 34,000 EU laws.

None of which anyone will be able to list for you without checking on them first.

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[dunover]

Your regular reminder that the UK objected to 72 out of over 34,000 EU laws.

None of which anyone will be able to list for you without checking on them first.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

View attachment 117180

And 72 is disgusting - just ONE law forced upon what was once a sovereign state is exactly why we shouldn't be part of it. What other country, other than ones under armed occupation or colonization, gets forced to live under the laws of foreigners?

The disguising of facts within bullshit and non-contextual numbers always makes me laugh. A passenger aircraft has 40,000-odd parts, would you want to fly on one with 72 of them unchecked? Pfftttt...