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Brexit - whats the difference.....

goatwack said:
I can see the correlation, and it's a perfectly logical assessment

God bless this thread. Welcome back
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Just remember that correlation and causation are not the same thing.

Like how theres a correlation between ice-cream sales and shark attacks in USA.
One could easily blame the people selling ice-cream, because the shark attacks increase when their sales increase.
But is it their fault? Maybe people tend to be around sharks a bit more during the summer when its hot, and perhaps people also seek out ice-cream more when its summer?

I wish i could stay and talk more about this, but i cant stay in one thread for to long, the admins are on to me.

Youwill.gif
nevercatch.gif
mealive.gif
pereblue.gif

Mwahahaha
 
Kroffe said:
Just remember that correlation and causation are not the same thing.

Like how theres a correlation between ice-cream sales and shark attacks in USA.
One could easily blame the people selling ice-cream, because the shark attacks increase when their sales increase.
But is it their fault? Maybe people tend to be around sharks a bit more during the summer when its hot, and perhaps people also seek out ice-cream more when its summer?

I wish i could stay and talk more about this, but i cant stay in one thread for to long, the admins are on to me.

View attachment 115001View attachment 115002View attachment 115003View attachment 115004
Mwahahaha
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Reported for vibrancy
 
Ministers are reportedly worried that it will become commonplace amongst British truckers, rather than Europeans, as they wait in the long queues.

“Do Europeans even do dogging?” the minister asked. “There is something deeply British about dogging.”

Tss. These anonymous pro-Remain cabinet ministers I tell ya
 
Merkel tells Johnson in plain terms the UK cannot leave the EU

in basic terms the UK needs a deal to leave the EU, no one can agree a deal and no deal is now apparently illegal under the agreements of power sharing in NI, if the UK leaves with no deal it has to offer the ROI a say on NI and NI cannot leave the EU under the NI agreement without ROI agreeing.

"Merkel said that if Germany wanted to leave the EU they could do it no problem, but the UK cannot leave without leaving Northern Ireland behind in a customs union and in full alignment forever.

"She said that Ireland is the government's special problem and Ireland must at least have a veto on Northern Ireland leaving.

"Merkel said that the prime minister should tell Northern Ireland that it must stay in full alignment forever, but that even this would not eliminate customs issues.

So as us Brexiteers suspected all along we are trapped in this club and there is no way out what a surprise.
 
Merkel in charge, an Eu army upcoming (which Farage warned us about and was dismissed by Clegg etc)...Germans in charge and a new army, well done remainers....
 
Well if she told him a few home truths then fair enough, the EU position has never changed on any of this stuff.

Mind you, if Merkel denied it I'd certainly trust her word over Johnson.

Decent piece here:

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The statement about Northern Ireland staying in the customs union is just the harshest possible spin on a basic practical reality of Brexit, one which it is tiresome to repeat but which we must anyway or risk losing all contact with objective reality: Customs and regulatory checks exist between separate customs and regulatory territories.

They entail checks at premises, or away from the border, or on the border, or more likely some combination of the three. Tech will get you some way towards minimising them, but the only way to eliminate them completely is to align on regulations and stay in the same customs territory.

There's no new position - not on the EU side, or on the basis of the functioning of the world. Gravity still operates, rain still falls from the sky, nothing can travel faster than the speed of light. And these facts about customs and regulations still hold true as well.

What we are seeing is the next stage of the No.10 strategy. They put forward a deal they knew would not work. It breached pretty much every EU red line. It made no sense on its own terms. It betrayed the government's own commitments. It was undeliverable and untenable: the crumpled paper an out-of-control British government pulled out its mouth and handed to teacher.
 
mack341 said:
So does this mean the EU will not offer an extension and we can leave on the 31st with 'no deal' and then just see what happens in NI?

It seems the EU mask, that I mentioned before, has slipped off the face to reveal an ugly truth.
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No merkel is saying no deal is illegal as ni powersharing states ireland has to have a say in anything to do with ni and it is illegal under the treaty signed.so uk cannot leave under no deal legally as ni cannot leave customs union without Ireland agreeing
 
...the EU ugly truth? that they totally denied they would form an army, gormless Nick Clegg etc calling down Farage who said they would form an army...

and here we are the German run EU now forming a super army, remainers you might as well go piss on some world war 2 graves you traitors
 
sledge13 said:
...the EU ugly truth? that they totally denied they would form an army, gormless Nick Clegg etc calling down Farage who said they would form an army...

and here we are the German run EU now forming a super army, remainers you might as well go piss on some world war 2 graves you traitors
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Here's a movie recommendation for you:
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steveh35 said:
No merkel is saying no deal is illegal as ni powersharing states ireland has to have a say in anything to do with ni and it is illegal under the treaty signed.so uk cannot leave under no deal legally as ni cannot leave customs union without Ireland agreeing
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It can't be as clear cut as this, otherwise boris, the AG etc.. would've known this yonks ago, his recent conference speech doesn't seem to reflect it, that 'no deal' is illegal.

Also remainers like dominic grieve would've been singing this from the rooftops for months, he is also a qc and former AG, so if No deal was legally forbidden by the GF agreement he'd said it months ago.

The fact that sky news and the bbc's kuenssberg are referenced quite a lot on delivering this breaking news, leads me to think it is yet more remainer BS, but only time will tell.

The EU is desperate to keep us in at all costs, ignoring democracy and the will of the people, pah that's nothing. No way can we ever go back to paying them £10 billion to stay in this dictatorship, enough's enough.
 
sledge13 said:
...the EU ugly truth? that they totally denied they would form an army, gormless Nick Clegg etc calling down Farage who said they would form an army...

and here we are the German run EU now forming a super army, remainers you might as well go piss on some world war 2 graves you traitors
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OK, OK - I doubt this was a prime motivation for remainers and it's not fair to assume they agree with this or to call them traitors just on the basis that they are indeed supporting remain. Try and keep it a bit more polite please!

FTR this goes back to the old argument - it's NATO that keep the peace in Europe, so we already effectively have a unified defence capability should it be required so I am not sure how this idea would be much use. Even now, for example in the Gulf near Iran, some countries are willing to send vessels there i.e. the UK, some aren't so I can hardly see this idea working anyway.
 
Regarding this murky merkel development, DUP leader Arlene Foster was quoted today as saying:

'The comments from the German Chancellor to the Prime Minister that Northern Ireland must remain in the EU Customs Union forever now reveal the real objective of Dublin and the European Union.

'For the United Kingdom to be asked to leave a part of its sovereign territory in a foreign organisation of which the UK would no longer be a part and over which we would have no say whatsoever is beyond crazy. No UK Government could ever concede such a surrender.

'The EU is not interested in a negotiated outcome at this time. Their position is the UK can only leave with a deal if it agrees a binding piece of international law permanently tying either the whole country or a part of it to the EU's legal order over which it has no control.

'The true purpose of the 'backstop' is now in the open for all to see. Those who eagerly supported the backstop as the best of both worlds can now see the error of that assessment. It was neither temporary nor an insurance policy.'

--------------

I always knew this backstop was a bs trap, surely remainers must be slightly embarrassed that the EU which they want us all to pander to and obey, is so capable of deception and underhand negotiating as this.
 
dunover said:
OK, OK - I doubt this was a prime motivation for remainers and it's not fair to assume they agree with this or to call them traitors just on the basis that they are indeed supporting remain. Try and keep it a bit more polite please!
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'A bit more polite'?

Max only reopened this thread a day ago and already those of us who are arguing the Remain case passionately but politely are being called 'traitors' and told that we should piss on the graves of dead British soldiers.

Posts like that are a perfect distillation of why Brexit is so utterly toxic and so completely fucked.
 
dunover said:
OK, OK - I doubt this was a prime motivation for remainers and it's not fair to assume they agree with this or to call them traitors just on the basis that they are indeed supporting remain. Try and keep it a bit more polite please!

FTR this goes back to the old argument - it's NATO that keep the peace in Europe, so we already effectively have a unified defence capability should it be required so I am not sure how this idea would be much use. Even now, for example in the Gulf near Iran, some countries are willing to send vessels there i.e. the UK, some aren't so I can hardly see this idea working anyway.
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"keep it polite" he said, and for the first time he used "remainer" instead of "remoaner".
:p

Thanks for leading the way, in these times of ever increasing foul-language.

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Will be interesting to see how this all turns out.
One things for sure, this circus still has alot of fuel left.

Edit: With circus i meant the whole brexit deal, but i guess the same can be said for this thread. =)
 
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Kroffe said:
One things for sure, this circus still has alot of fuel left.
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Oh for sure. Let's say that Johnson somehow manages to wangle through a No-Deal Brexit on October 31st.

On November 1st we'll be starting years and years of negotiations with the EU trying to put back together some semblance of all the stuff we had prior to leaving.

This thing won't be done for years, probably a decade or more.

'Leave Means Leave', except it doesn't.
 
ChopleyIOM said:
Oh for sure. Let's say that Johnson somehow manages to wangle through a No-Deal Brexit on October 31st.

On November 1st we'll be starting years and years of negotiations with the EU trying to put back together some semblance of all the stuff we had prior to leaving.

This thing won't be done for years, probably a decade or more.

'Leave Means Leave', except it doesn't.
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The ones going crazy nuts are the remainers, they are the ones screaming doom and gloom, protesting on the streets, going to court abusing Leavers as thick and stupid and uneducated, the leavers here are just sitting back letting the EU take the fall and Boris take the next election.
 
Jean claude Juncker, commission president dismissed suggestions that the bloc will be to blame for failure to get an agreement, jibing that Britain had committed the 'original sin' of trying to leave.

So we are to be punished for daring to leave.
 
I use the term 'remoaner' for those in denial about the Brexit referendum result, who cover their ears with their hands and sing "LA LA LA LA". These are the group that cannot accept they lost, ignore the democratic result of the 2016 poll and want to revoke Article 50. They don't realise that the genie is out of the bottle, you cannot unring the bell.

A remainer is generally a pragmatist who accepts we voted to leave but would like to do so in a negotiated deal in order to minimize what they see as any negative consequences.
 
In a way it's the governing class's fault, politicians and the media who don't want brexit enacted; by dithering and failing to honour a fair, large turnout vote, they've encouraged people who voted remain to believe there is a chance the result can be annulled if enough fuss and backlash is stirred up.

It didn't have to be this way, we could have made an orderly exit from the EU following on from the referendum result, and then the reality that it was nothing to fear would've dawned on remain voters.
 
mack341 said:
It's the vikings invading us all over again, how much of this material are the danes sending to us :eek2: and what are these ivf doctors doing, swimming in the stuff :eek: :laugh:
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If this isn't a reason to check the ingredients on your facial moisturisers, imported from there, I don't know what is :eek2:
 
This is a really good article about Brexit, it explores errors that were made on all sides (including the EU's positions), and explains in forensic detail how we've ended up where we have.

It's a long read but I guarantee you'll learn from it. (I certainly did.)

How did Brexit become a “do-or-die” project deliverable only through an abrupt divorce that threatens to do lasting damage both to the economy and the constitutional integrity of the UK? Back in 2016, neither the official nor the unofficial Leave campaigns advocated crashing out—instead, the expectation was that the UK would negotiate a close partnership with our European neighbours with an orderly transition to the new terms.

Changing from that course should have required a deliberate choice. National sovereignty was, after all, the animating ideal behind Brexit: Britain voted to “take back control.” Life would not necessarily be easy outside the EU, but at least the UK would be free to make its own decisions.

But looking back at the last three years, the most striking aspect of the way London has played its hand has been its reluctance—even its inability—to make any real choices at all. Doors have been slammed on viable options, negotiations fumbled for lack of direction and hard choices consistently ducked.

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News this morning that Johnson has finally seen the light on how catastrophic No Deal would be, and is now trying to get a deal, basically any deal, anything that avoids No Deal.

This is not a good negotiating position, and the EU know it.

115256


 
Just about sums it up. Watch out folks, the ultimate polished turd, the most magnificent pig with lipstick on it ever seen, will shortly come lumbering into view.

It doesn't even matter now, a shit deal, a disastrous no deal, even revoke, the damage is done, the country is riven, roughly half the population are going to be fucked off whatever happens, and the wounds will take decades to heal, if they ever heal at all.

Well done Brexit, well fucking done.

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I as a leaver and many others would have respected a remain result and it would have been done and dusted....by denying the biggest referendum result in history, and Labour etc still ready to block ANY FORM OF BREXIT, it is the democracy denying disgrace that have caused this fair vote to be destroyed.
 

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