Brexit - whats the difference.....

[ChopleyIOM]

Have you not heard of the 'Green Pound' whereby the state used to regulate UK farming in order to maintain production and profitability and ensure food supply? It used to work, well before the CAP. As I recall it when a small child, we had fish (taken by the French and Spanish now) beef, chicken, lamb, potatoes strawberries, cheese, milk etc. and definitely weren't starving pre-EEC.

All this crap you're quoting is based on the unfounded assumption that the UK govt. would NOT keep the subsidy up, presently given by the E-USSR. So it goes like this:

UK pays £10bn plus into this stinking kleptocracy so Poles can build new roads and Estonians chicken sheds.
E-USSR generously returns half of it in the form of subsidies, regional developments grants and other things.
The UK is essentially being treated like a child being told how to spend their own pocket money.

Post E-USSR:

UK pays bugger-all into bastard Brussels and can directly maintain these subsidies and grants themselves without sending money to the E-USSR first, whereby they send SOME of it back as happens with the insane system at present. Simples.

The whole poxy set-up is basically Germany assuaging its guilt for WW2 and the French with their inferiority complex relishing the power they have over the UK, something which they've not been able to achieve in centuries. Have you noticed their leaders are always short-arses with a Napoleon complex?

The EU is basically an unholy alliance of Shakin' Stevens and Micro Macron, the German - French duopoly and they can both go and find a hole to plot their grand Eurostate plans in - without us.

Why are you consistently so abusive about people from other European countries?

I see them as my friends, my neighbours, and my allies.

All you seem to want to do is hurl abuse at them.

And no one's saying we were starving 40 years ago, but to suggest that it's possible to rip up four decades' worth of trade integration with our closest friends and neighbours, and somehow have it turn out to be a good thing is a flight of fantasy.

EDIT - And name dropping World War 2 again, really? Why are Leave folks so obsessed with WW2?

 

[mack341]

So how come none of the remoaners are highlighting the new deal the EU has signed thats going to destroy the Irish farming sector, and the UK sector if we remain in the EU? This new deals allows for the Eurozone to be flooded with cheap South American meat in return for getting EU access into the service sector.
At least if the UK can get out of the EU they can negotiate their own deals and possibly protect the farming industry, and maybe in a few years when the Irish farming sector is defunct there might be a vote for an Irish EU exit.....

"Environmental groups, whose influence is stronger in the new European Parliament, argue the agreement could exacerbate deforestation."

So more neoliberal economics at the cost of the planet, trying to grow and raise cheap meat in poor countries where they don't have lots of natural pasture like us, but unique non renewable rainforest instead.

"The majority deforestation in the Amazon Basin since the 1960s has been caused by cattle ranchers and land speculators who burned huge tracts of rainforest for pasture. Brazilian government data indicates that more than 60 percent of deforested land ends up as cattle pasture"

Well done the EU...not.

 

[sufferinsilence]

I just watched boris's interview yesterday with the bbc [on some boat or dockside] and he said the EU have been confused in the last three years by Theresa may's position, basically leaving but staying in, and with his new clearer idea of what leaving means and some goodwill, he believes a free trade deal can be made, plus agreements on security, and the other side issues etc..

Ofcourse deals will be made but they won't be made solely on the UK's terms and conditions... The issue is that most Brexiteers will see any compromises that are even slightly pro-EU as bad and "look at how Brussels is still trying to keep us down".

 

[dunover]

Why are you consistently so abusive about people from other European countries?

I see them as my friends, my neighbours, and my allies.

All you seem to want to do is hurl abuse at them.

And no one's saying we were starving 40 years ago, but to suggest that it's possible to rip up four decades' worth of trade integration with our closest friends and neighbours, and somehow have it turn out to be a good thing is a flight of fantasy.

EDIT - And name dropping World War 2 again, really? Why are Leave folks so obsessed with WW2?

Not fair - I was ridiculing the LEADERS not the people, and the misappropriation of UK money! It's not us that are WW2 obsessed, but more the Germans - don't mention the War! I love Europe and always have, but I don't need a poxy EU parliament to let me do so. As is usual with most institutions made for the ruling elite at huge expense, it's not the people at fault but the way they've been systematically conned by politicians.

And spare me from the absolute halfwits who spout on about 'change it from within' (yeah right, with 11% of the EU parliament where we can do sweet zilch as a nation) and then proceed to peddle the idea that this is somehow preferable to 100% of the UK parliament. It isn't. Never was. Never will be. Hence 17.6 million people wanting out, winning the referendum, a fact which some want to forget...

 

[mack341]

Ofcourse deals will be made but they won't be made solely on the UK's terms and conditions... The issue is that most Brexiteers will see any compromises that are even slightly pro-EU as bad and "look at how Brussels is still trying to keep us down".

But other than the backstop I'm not sure what the EU want from us? At the moment we have a trade deficit with the EU member states, so free trade is already benefitting them more than us, but they want that to change back to tariffs and lose $ millions

 

[dunover]

Well at least the pound is doing well out of all of this.

Oh, hang on.

I doubt that hedge fund managers in Geneva are 'Remoaners', they're hard-nosed financial realists who realise that the UK is about to commit a massive act of economic self-harm.

Doubtless the pound will bounce back once we've managed to negotiate amazing trade deals to sell lamb chops to Japan.

The pound sterling is now at its weakest vs a basket of other currencies since Bloomberg began tracking it in 2004. Weaker than during financial crisis. Weaker than post referendum.

View attachment 112034

And there you've kinda shot your own argument down. The stupid Euro (responsible in part for Greece's slow recovery as a worthless Drachma would have naturally made their goods and services cheaper instead of being tied into it) is something we luckily did not join. Nor the Swedes, Poles, Danes etc.

So we hear all about the 10% tariffs on a no-deal exit, from your remainer friends. Pound falls 10% and the cost of exports remains static for EU countries, natural economic balancing. It makes exports to non-EU countries far cheaper, wait for the Norwegians to pile into Newcastle on the ferries for cheap UK goods lol...

Yes, our imports become dearer. In a free market this will enable profitable competitive UK manufacturers to grow and develop in areas of commerce where the terms of trade once favoured other nations. That's the beauty of a truly free market status as opposed to the centralized kollectiv the EU seem to prefer. We are more flexible than you think, but then again it's easier to predict failure than success and you only seem to listen to the doomsayers.....

 

[ChopleyIOM]

So loads of stuff gets more expensive for most people, but 'profitable competitive UK manufacturers' become better off somehow. Are you a 'profitable competitive UK manufacturer'? Do you know anyone who is? Were any of these manufacturers calling out for a No Deal Brexit prior to 2016?

Also, the vast majority of UK manufacturers have already rung the alarm bell on No Deal, because they rely heavily on incredibly efficient supply chains that are facilitated by EU membership, along with the freedom of trade it offers them.

I guess the Confederation of British Industry (CBI) are just doomsaying Remoaners as well then?

But fear not I suppose, dunover has got it all worked out!

If all this stuff is so easy, why has absolutely no one managed to solve it all as cleanly and efficiently as you have?

Still, at least we have a government of True Believers now, so it'll be sorted out soon I guess.

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[dunover]

So loads of stuff gets more expensive for most people, but 'profitable competitive UK manufacturers' become better off somehow. Are you a 'profitable competitive UK manufacturer'? Do you know anyone who is? Were any of these manufacturers calling out for a No Deal Brexit prior to 2016?

Also, the vast majority of UK manufacturers have already rung the alarm bell on No Deal, because they rely heavily on incredibly efficient supply chains that are facilitated by EU membership, along with the freedom of trade it offers them.

I guess the Confederation of British Industry (CBI) are just doomsaying Remoaners as well then?

But fear not I suppose, dunover has got it all worked out!

If all this stuff is so easy, why has absolutely no one managed to solve it all as cleanly and efficiently as you have?

Still, at least we have a government of True Believers now, so it'll be sorted out soon I guess.

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View attachment 112040

Efficient? Like when the French are on strike at the channel ports every 5 minutes? UK manufacturers will resolve shortfalls, they always do - it's called 'market forces' and that trumps everything in economic terms. Think back to N.Sea oil and the economic circumstances which made its extraction viable whereas before he oil crisis it wasn't. If there's an opportunity for profit, companies will take it.
The CBI always thinks short-term, as they did when the vote went against them and the bleating started, only to be proven false back then.

Sure, a no-deal will mean short term adjustments and even some turmoil if it comes to it, but economics is a transient entity, nationhood and freedom is permanent. Leavers are prepared to buy our freedom back, nobody is going to die over it, it's a bloodless coup.

The Pound can fall as far as it wants, as I get paid in Euros mainly anyway thus like many will gain in the short term before things settle. Then again, I'll lose out if I buy a new German car. It's swings and roundabouts.

P.S. I could have sworn we had air freight, cross-channel goods and efficient delivery before 1973? Is 1973 some kind of apocryphal event, when a bright light appeared over Britain and changed our lives forever?

 

[mack341]

We've had three years [four if you include the run up to the vote] for businesses affected to look at alternative plans and solutions, if they need extra help I'm sure the dept for business/trade will assist as much as they can.

I hear about these supply chains, but don't know of any real examples of how it works. It sounds like we've tied ourselves up in such a load of bureaucratic rope for the last 30 years, that acting/trading like a normal country is now difficult and we have to relearn how to go about it...

 

[ChopleyIOM]

The Pound can fall as far as it wants, as I get paid in Euros mainly anyway thus like many will gain in the short term before things settle. Then again, I'll lose out if I buy a new German car. It's swings and roundabouts.

I'm sure all the people who lose their jobs (and already have done) will be delighted to hear that you've done so well out of their poverty.

I don't remember anyone talking about 'turmoil' (which is a word you just used), it was all supposed to be super smooth and easy because they'd come begging to us, right?

Honestly dunover, find me a single Leave pledge from 2016 that ran along the lines of:

'Sure, a no-deal will mean short term adjustments and even some turmoil if it comes to it'

It doesn't exist, because 'some turmoil' isn't a vote winner in a prosperous, democratic country that's about to make itself deliberately less prosperous and more turbulent.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

We've had three years [four if you include the run up to the vote] for businesses affected to look at alternative plans and solutions, if they need extra help I'm sure the dept for business/trade will assist as much as they can.

Not really, because business and industry was told all along they'd get a great deal, and a really easy great deal at that, so why spend a shitload of money preparing for an eventuality you've been told won't happen?

Basically they've been given three months' notice to prepare for No Deal or get fucked.

Plus, how does a small UK business prepare an 'alternative plan' for the EU Customs Union, for example? It's not exactly something they can draft and enact themselves, is it?

 

[sufferinsilence]

The Pound can fall as far as it wants, as I get paid in Euros mainly anyway thus like many will gain in the short term before things settle.

Great argument

 

[TheAddict]

The riots in Paris for the 30th weekend in a row not reported by the mainstream media BBC SKY etc, yet all over the Hong Kong trouble...simple these protests are against the EU darlingboy Macron while his soldiers beat the public to a pulp, this is the EU in action...hiding the truth about their unelected mafia literally bankrupting countries like Greece etc while they sit in their gold plated offices.

You liberal leftist muppets keep banging on that 0.1% voted for Boris...ok how many out of 500 million+ had a say in the new EU leader?

ZERO - MAFIA IN ACTION

Someone gets it.

 

[mack341]

Not really, because business and industry was told all along they'd get a great deal, and a really easy great deal at that, so why spend a shitload of money preparing for an eventuality you've been told won't happen?

Basically they've been given three months' notice to prepare for No Deal or get fucked.

Plus, how does a small UK business prepare an 'alternative plan' for the EU Customs Union, for example? It's not exactly something they can draft and enact themselves, is it?

I dunno... I haven't got a clue, I think I'm what they call up north a 'barmpot', maybe a bb 'barmpot brexiteer'

I must say though Chop your brexit post frequency has risen dramatically with the conservative's anointing of Bojo, you're getting concerned now about the real prospect of no-deal happening?

Effectively it seems bojo's moved the goalposts of the discussion for remainers, under theresa may it was more 'lets have another referendum and stop brexit, full stop', but now it's 'lets stop no-deal'.

The EU say the only way to do that is vote for theresa's agreement which failed to win a majority three times, but boris has decided the backstop proposal is a dead duck. I think the 39 billion is also now going to be used as a bargaining chip. Maybe we'll have to pay some more in addition to get a free trade deal...

Who knows where the future is going to take us, but the financial sector in london [the city of london] is an important centre and hub of world trade, that's not going to change because we've dropped out of the EU club.

This is a bit of an esoteric point but most of the billionaires in the world, I'd say, speak english as their first or second language and not german or french, that does count for something [at least at the moment] add in the commonwealth ties, strong links to the usa, china, hong kong, japan. That's more than the french have probably got going for them. [btw I'm not anti french, just making the point we are not in that bad a shape compared to some countries]

 

[dunover]

I'm sure all the people who lose their jobs (and already have done) will be delighted to hear that you've done so well out of their poverty.

I don't remember anyone talking about 'turmoil' (which is a word you just used), it was all supposed to be super smooth and easy because they'd come begging to us, right?

Honestly dunover, find me a single Leave pledge from 2016 that ran along the lines of:

'Sure, a no-deal will mean short term adjustments and even some turmoil if it comes to it'

It doesn't exist, because 'some turmoil' isn't a vote winner in a prosperous, democratic country that's about to make itself deliberately less prosperous and more turbulent.

I notice you selectively quoted me out of context there, conveniently forgetting that I also stated I would pay more for some imported items, i.e. a German car.

Of course there will be adjustments - we expected that when voting to leave this monstrosity. The situation is that an accumulation of little adjustments made over the past 2 decades, often surreptitiously by unelected officials as well as traitorous governments of both colours here, will be resolved in a short space of time when we leave. What price do you consider worth paying for the return of sovereignty and freedom?

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I notice you selectively quoted me out of context there, conveniently forgetting that I also stated I would pay more for some imported items, i.e. a German car.

Of course there will be adjustments - we expected that when voting to leave this monstrosity. The situation is that an accumulation of little adjustments made over the past 2 decades, often surreptitiously by unelected officials as well as traitorous governments of both colours here, will be resolved in a short space of time when we leave. What price do you consider worth paying for the return of sovereignty and freedom?

See now this is the rewriting of history that's already well underway. The Leave side campaigned under the banner of how fantastic everything was going to be, with the EU crawling on their hands and knees to give us amazing trade deals, whilst we would have £350M more a week to spend on the NHS, and there was 'literally no downside' to Brexit.

Now we're told these 'adjustments' were expected all along (except everyone just forgot to mention them at the time, I guess), and the UK pound is now currently the second worst performing currency in the world. The worst is the Madagascan Ariary, for completeness.

These are ruthless financial markets, they don't care about belief, or courage, or patriotism, or Blitz spirit or any of that other nonsense. They're increasingly now pricing the pound factoring in a No Deal Brexit, we'll be at parity with the Euro at this rate.

Just expected adjustments though, right? Still, at least the Euros you get paid in will be worth more, which I'm sure everyone will be delighted about as their shopping gets more expensive.

 

[goatwack]

We are marginally out-performing Monopoly Money if that's any consolation

 

[dunover]

See now this is the rewriting of history that's already well underway. The Leave side campaigned under the banner of how fantastic everything was going to be, with the EU crawling on their hands and knees to give us amazing trade deals, whilst we would have £350M more a week to spend on the NHS, and there was 'literally no downside' to Brexit.

Now we're told these adjustments were expected all along (except everyone just forgot to mention them at the time, I guess), and the UK pound is now currently the second worst performing currency in the world. The worst is the Madagascan Ariary, for completeness.

These are ruthless financial markets, they don't care about belief, or courage, or patriotism, or Blitz spirit or any of that other nonsense. They're increasingly now pricing the pound factoring in a No Deal Brexit, we'll be at parity with the Euro at this rate.

Just expected adjustments though, right? Still, at least the Euros you get paid in will be worth more, which I'm sure everyone will be delighted about as their shopping gets more expensive.

View attachment 112079


View attachment 112078

Yeah, and in 1985 it got down to $1.04 against the USD - so what?

 

[mack341]

See now this is the rewriting of history that's already well underway. The Leave side campaigned under the banner of how fantastic everything was going to be, with the EU crawling on their hands and knees to give us amazing trade deals, whilst we would have £350M more a week to spend on the NHS, and there was 'literally no downside' to Brexit.

Now we're told these 'adjustments' were expected all along (except everyone just forgot to mention them at the time, I guess), and the UK pound is now currently the second worst performing currency in the world. The worst is the Madagascan Ariary, for completeness.

These are ruthless financial markets, they don't care about belief, or courage, or patriotism, or Blitz spirit or any of that other nonsense. They're increasingly now pricing the pound factoring in a No Deal Brexit, we'll be at parity with the Euro at this rate.

Just expected adjustments though, right? Still, at least the Euros you get paid in will be worth more, which I'm sure everyone will be delighted about as their shopping gets more expensive.

View attachment 112079


View attachment 112078

I've never felt being a member of the EU was making the UK a richer, wealthier place, perhaps neutral at very best or worse off. If this all about economics and being better off, why does the vote largely split down political party, age, and ethnic background lines? Those with a liberal, modern left outlook [ worship policies of t.blair and vince cable ] think it's the bee knees, and the rest of us think it's massively overrated and causing more problems than it's worth. The EU structure and institution mind you, not the continent of europe, two very different things...

Regarding currency, if you took germany out of the arithmetic, I bet the euro would be performing worse, and be valued at about 25% less too.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

£2.1bn to prepare for a No Deal Brexit and to ensure (amongst other things) that we still have supplies of critical medicines.

Because if there's one thing we were short of as a member of the EU, it's medicines, right?

Remember when Theresa May told a nurse there was 'no magic money tree' to give her a small pay rise?

Better to spend it on a massive act of self-inflicted economic harm, I guess.

 

[dunover]

£2.1bn to prepare for a No Deal Brexit and to ensure (amongst other things) that we still have supplies of critical medicines.

Because if there's one thing we were short of as a member of the EU, it's medicines, right?

Remember when Theresa May told a nurse there was 'no magic money tree' to give her a small pay rise?

Better to spend it on a massive act of self-inflicted economic harm, I guess.

View attachment 112107

I find it comforting to know impending issues are being addressed. Don't forget, the EU also gets medicines from the UK. Two of the 5 largest are UK companies, GlaxoSmithKline and AstraZeneca, so perhaps try and be a bit more balanced eh?

 

[mack341]

£2.1bn to prepare for a No Deal Brexit and to ensure (amongst other things) that we still have supplies of critical medicines.

Because if there's one thing we were short of as a member of the EU, it's medicines, right?

Remember when Theresa May told a nurse there was 'no magic money tree' to give her a small pay rise?

Better to spend it on a massive act of self-inflicted economic harm, I guess.

View attachment 112107

Isn't part of this to tell the EU [and the mps in the HOC] we are serious about leaving this time, talk is cheap but putting money into something shows you mean business. I'm pleased the govt are starting to put measures in place, are the EU spending money doing the same? stockpiling medicines sourced from the uk etc.. [I see Dun above already covered this point ] medicines are critical products that in general have a longish shelf life, so it's not going to be money wasted by us in that regard.

I appreciate you're still finding the prospect of us leaving very worrying and a big leap into the dark...bojo's natural high energy seems to have finally got whitehall to set the wheels in motion for leaving, something, as largely remainers, they hate doing but they can't put up much more resistance now in this situation.

When the HOC returns, that's when the 'remainer' action by mps will heat up, this is going to be a really interesting period of british politics, whether they can halt the 'leave' proceedings..there was talk/chatter yesterday that boris is interested in an extra 2 year hiatus for the trading rules/implementation period to allow business to adapt.

Bojo is one for getting out and about and doesn't seem to have any problem or difficulty meeting the public, most mps find it hard to be natural in these situations. I think he is starting to win people over, and re energise/galvanise the country with his 'can-do' attitude rather than 'can't-do' which was very much the basis of May's constipated approach.

 

[steveh35]

£2.1bn to prepare for a No Deal Brexit and to ensure (amongst other things) that we still have supplies of critical medicines.

Because if there's one thing we were short of as a member of the EU, it's medicines, right?

Remember when Theresa May told a nurse there was 'no magic money tree' to give her a small pay rise?

Better to spend it on a massive act of self-inflicted economic harm, I guess.

View attachment 112107

If remainers had let the UK leave on 29 March then there would be no need for any of this extra money to be spent.

 

[colinsunderland]

If remainers had let the UK leave on 29 March then there would be no need for any of this extra money to be spent.

Why not? Would it also cause everyone who is ill to get better?

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Part of a sensitive internal government document has been leaked to Sky News, this was never supposed to be for public consumption.

It outlines 'first day, first fortnight, first month' scenarios of a No Deal Brexit.

This is what everyone was voting for, right?

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Oh sorry, I remember, dunover said they're 'expected adjustments'. Silly me.

'Consumer panic and food shortages' = Adjustments.

 

[dunover]

LOL...I had to laugh at the Brecon by-election reporting. The Brexit parties pulled around 52% of the votes cast, the result was pretty much identical to the 53% Leave vote in that constituency and the remoaning LD's won by manipulation as two other parties pulled out to ensure this artificial result.

Food shortages lol.... are the wolf packs going to be returning to the north atlantic? Am I the only one who sees opportunity for UK farmers and manufacturers to fill the gaps wherever possibly to ensure more domestically-produced goods?

 

[vorcirion]

Chopley keeps bringing opinions from experts etc. who can have a pretty good guess what's going to happen in Brexit. Of course it might not be totally accurate.
Could you leavers show some kind evidence or opinions from experts that think that nothing really bad is going to happen? Or is it just based on: "it'll be alright, because I say so!"?

 

[steveh35]

LOL...I had to laugh at the Brecon by-election reporting. The Brexit parties pulled around 52% of the votes cast, the result was pretty much identical to the 53% Leave vote in that constituency and the remoaning LD's won by manipulation as two other parties pulled out to ensure this artificial result.

Food shortages lol.... are the wolf packs going to be returning to the north atlantic? Am I the only one who sees opportunity for UK farmers and manufacturers to fill the gaps wherever possibly to ensure more domestically-produced goods?

No one won last night
Lib Dems did a pact with minor parties like the Greens who withdrew from running
Tories didn't get the boris bounce and were suffering from the reason it was called in first place
Brexit Party vote fell apart due to Boris' brexit talk and they stupidly didn't withdraw from the race like the Greens to give the Tories the edge.
The Labour Party? sorry who? oh yeah the one run by the man with the dodgy beard & his militant cronies.

Boris should call an election under First Past The Post Lib Dems can't win and Labour are nothing he probably walk a majority by default.

 

[mack341]

LOL...I had to laugh at the Brecon by-election reporting. The Brexit parties pulled around 52% of the votes cast, the result was pretty much identical to the 53% Leave vote in that constituency and the remoaning LD's won by manipulation as two other parties pulled out to ensure this artificial result.

Food shortages lol.... are the wolf packs going to be returning to the north atlantic? Am I the only one who sees opportunity for UK farmers and manufacturers to fill the gaps wherever possibly to ensure more domestically-produced goods?

This is also a snapshot and reminder to the tories what will happen if they don't fulfill brexit, a general election loss, I can see this result strengthening boris's resolve for the 31st oct exit. The commons majority is not important as they didn't in reality have one with all the remainers in the party. This also puts farage back in the game, he can't be dismissed, the tories might need to agree a pact regarding seats to be fought.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Food shortages lol.... are the wolf packs going to be returning to the north atlantic? Am I the only one who sees opportunity for UK farmers and manufacturers to fill the gaps wherever possibly to ensure more domestically-produced goods?

Problem 1 - The vast majority of seasonal farm labour is from Eastern Europe, UK farmers are already having trouble harvesting their crops and warn that they will simply rot in the fields in a No Deal Brexit scenario. People from Europe already don't want to come here to work. (See also massive staff shortages in the NHS already.)

Problem 2 - In many regards the British population are not actually that keen on a lot of what we produce, we're very used to having availability of everything all year round. These supply chains will be horrendously disrupted, stuff we're used to seeing on the shelves won't be there.

And then in the case of lamb, for example, we like lamb chops and legs, but the rest we don't really eat, which is why so much of it gets exported to places where the rest of the animal is eaten.

UK farmers are simply not geared up to operating without their ready supply of labour, and do not produce a lot of what we like to eat. Sure that could be done in time but maybe it would have been good to start arranging all that before setting a date to crash out of the EU in 90 days time.

Just a thought.

 

[steveh35]

This is also a snapshot and reminder to the tories what will happen if they don't fulfill brexit, a general election loss, I can see this result strengthening boris's resolve for the 31st oct exit. The commons majority is not important as they didn't in reality have one with all the remainers in the party. This also puts farage back in the game, he can't be dismissed, the tories might need to agree a pact regarding seats to be fought.

Farage could be blamed by some Brexit supporters ironically if Brexit never happens in effect with The Brexit Party choosing not to withdraw from the by election he has given a H of C seat to a remainer.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

No one won last night

Quick fact check.

The Lib Dems won.

 

[steveh35]

Quick fact check.

The Lib Dems won.

Oh just remember was it a month or so ago when Brexit Party won Euros with 31% who was adding up the remainer parties results and putting them together to claim remain had won?

 

[mack341]

Farage could be blamed by some Brexit supporters ironically if Brexit never happens in effect with The Brexit Party choosing not to withdraw from the by election he has given a H of C seat to a remainer.

But the civil service are probably advising boris to ignore and freeze out farage, they don't want him to have a say in the negotiations, as he'll be against a soft brexit or the type of brexit the remainer civil service can tolerate. Just hope nigel doesn't go off and do a bit of mountain climbing, walking in the woods or another flyover in a small plane...

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Oh just remember was it a month or so ago when Brexit Party won Euros with 31% who was adding up the remainer parties results and putting them together to claim remain had won?

I didn't claim the Remain parties had 'won', I pointed out that they'd polled more votes combined than the Leave parties did.

'Winning' the popular vote doesn't necessarily equal winning an election, and vice versa, as we saw with Racist Trump in the USA.

 

[steveh35]

But the civil service are probably advising boris to ignore and freeze out farage, they don't want him to have a say in the negotiations, as he'll be against a soft brexit or the type of brexit the remainer civil service can tolerate. Just hope nigel doesn't go off and do a bit of mountain climbing, walking in the woods or another flyover in a small plane...

If the Lib Dems want to use dirty tactics and get into bed with Greens & Welsh Remainers then Tories and Brexit will have to do same or else you get what you got last night.

 

[steveh35]

I didn't claim the Remain parties had 'won', I pointed out that they'd polled more votes combined than the Leave parties did.

'Winning' the popular vote doesn't necessarily equal winning an election, and vice versa, as we saw with Racist Trump in the USA.

So if you add up last night then combined-
Tories 39.0 + Brexit 10.5 plus UKIP 0.8% is 50.3%
Lib Dems 43% inc Greens & Welsh party
Assume Labour are split so their 5.3% become 2.65 to both parties that leaves

Tories/Brexit/UKIP/Labour 53%
Lib Dems/Labour 45.65%

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Chopley keeps bringing opinions from experts etc. who can have a pretty good guess what's going to happen in Brexit. Of course it might not be totally accurate.
Could you leavers show some kind evidence or opinions from experts that think that nothing really bad is going to happen? Or is it just based on: "it'll be alright, because I say so!"?

You might have a bit of a long wait on that one, old chap

Even the Leaver's favourite economist, Patrick Minford, cheerfully admits that the UK car industry will be 'destroyed' by Brexit. (And not even just a No Deal Brexit, at that.)

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[dunover]

So if you add up last night then combined-
Tories 39.0 + Brexit 10.5 plus UKIP 0.8% is 50.3%
Lib Dems 43% inc Greens & Welsh party
Assume Labour are split so their 5.3% become 2.65 to both parties that leaves

Tories/Brexit/UKIP/Labour 53%
Lib Dems/Labour 45.65%

Which exactly mirrors the referendum result in the same seat.

Hang on @ChopleyIOM - you were saying the other day cars would become dearer due to the fall in Sterling, now suddenly imports will become cheaper?? What about the tariffs too?

Remain did NOT win the EU elections at all, basing the count the same way Steve has above (which is clearly the most accurate and fair way to do so) the result pretty much reflected the 2016 referendum.

The Brexit party won, in exactly the same way you pointed out the LibPhlegms won Brecon. That's because the Brexit-supporting parties didn't manipulate the result by all standing at once.

 

[mack341]

Chop, do you think that every one of these articles published by the corporate owned (remainer) msm is 100% true/accurate with no scaremongering or exaggeration at all?

 

[steveh35]

Chop, do you think that every one of these articles published by the corporate owned (remainer) msm is 100% true/accurate with no scaremongering or exaggeration at all?

Of course he does he is a remainer everything is true if it disagrees with Brexit no matter how absurd it is.

 

[vorcirion]

Chop, do you think that every one of these articles published by the corporate owned (remainer) msm is 100% true/accurate with no scaremongering or exaggeration at all?

Are you saying that they are lying? Let's say it's 50% true...only half as bad as they claim. That's an acceptable result for you?

 

[vorcirion]

Chop, do you think that every one of these articles published by the corporate owned (remainer) msm is 100% true/accurate with no scaremongering or exaggeration at all?

But yeah please bring your own evidence or opinions from your experts to the discussion.

 

[steveh35]

I mean goodness me how do countries like Australia and Canada and others cope without being in the EU and living under their rules, the EU is too powerful as poor old Switzerland is finding out, I mean the EU really doesn't like countries who don't want to be in their little club.

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[mack341]

Of course he does he is a remainer everything is true if it disagrees with Brexit no matter how absurd it is.

I don't think though these articles are based in the realm of the absurd, that would be too obvious and wouldn't work as anti leave propaganda which is obviously the intention of the media and establishment/corporate remainers....that's also the point vorcirion is obviously missing, evidence/articles/opinion for the opposite viewpoint will be hard to find not because brexit has no benefit or validity but because the media is corporate owned/funded and they favour the EU federal project [after all it's been good for the big business interests]- biased against brexit in other words, so very unlikely to write/publish articles at their cost extolling it.

 

[mack341]

I mean goodness me how do countries like Australia and Canada and others cope without being in the EU and living under their rules, the EU is too powerful as poor old Switzerland is finding out, I mean the EU really doesn't like countries who don't want to be in their little club.

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Maybe this EU sentiment against switzerland is related to brexit after all the swiss are a major finance and banking centre like the uk, so they may have strong reciprocal links to london...[just pondering this conspiracy theory out aloud for anyone wishing to look into it ] maybe to isolate us further so we eventually have to rejoin the EU?

in fact it says in that article:

" The fall-out from the dispute is being closely watched in Britain as a test case for how EU shares may be traded in London after the country leaves the bloc. "

mmm...

 

[colinsunderland]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Government reveals new Brexit bus. <a href="

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">pic.twitter.com/UMdRva3lcO</a></p>&mdash; Have I Got News For You (@haveigotnews) <a href="">August 1, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="

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" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Global artists at this year's Edinburgh Festival refuse to be paid in sterling.

Again, this all seems fine and is definitely what people had in mind when voting in the 2016 referendum.

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“No one wants to do deals in sterling anymore . . . so you’ve got to do all the arrangements in dollars and euros,” Mr Linehan told the Financial Times in an interview, ahead of the opening of the three-week festival on Friday.

The pound has suffered another torrid week with sterling dropping to a 30-month low on Thursday against the dollar. On the same day, the governor of the Bank of England, Mark Carney, warned that a no-deal Brexit could lead to a further plunge in the currency’s value. The organisers’ concern is an example of the spreading impact of Brexit on economic and social life in the UK.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Well known left wing Remainer agitators, (checks notes), oh, right, The Daily Mail - print their guide to a No Deal Brexit.

This is the paper that ran this front page, if you recall.

SPOILER ALERT - Literally everything gets worse. Feel free to scan down the list and let me know about any good news you find.

Don't worry though, there's no need to stockpile food.

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