Brexit - whats the difference.....

[mack341]

Well known left wing Remainer agitators, (checks notes), oh, right, The Daily Mail - print their guide to a No Deal Brexit.

This is the paper that ran this front page, if you recall.

View attachment 112310

SPOILER ALERT - Literally everything gets worse. Feel free to scan down the list and let me know about any good news you find.

Don't worry though, there's no need to stockpile food.

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I think the mail switched to a soft/no brexit position when the new editor geordie greig too over from paul dacre, they moaned like merry hell when theresa's deal wasn't passed, saying mps had blocked brexit. When most people knew theresa's deal was worse than remaining, as we'd still be basically in but with no say as before, and with no direct legal right of leaving.

They made some silly comparison today between the £ turnover of fishing [725m] and the shop harrods [2 billion] but they failed to see that fishing would still employ many more local people than a single fancy retail shop that mostly imports luxury goods made elsewhere. After I read that I gave up bothering to read the rest of the article.

 

[dunover]

Well known left wing Remainer agitators, (checks notes), oh, right, The Daily Mail - print their guide to a No Deal Brexit.

This is the paper that ran this front page, if you recall.

View attachment 112310

SPOILER ALERT - Literally everything gets worse. Feel free to scan down the list and let me know about any good news you find.

Don't worry though, there's no need to stockpile food.

View attachment 112311

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Don't tell me you're one of the gullible who spent £350-odd or whatever it was on one of these 'Brexit Survival Packs' with aspirins, bog rolls and loads of dried pasta in?

And when I pointed out the other day I'm better off with a plummeting Pound as I receive a fair chunk of my pay in Euros each month, the insinuation was 'I'm alright, f*ck you Jack'. Yet it's newsworthy when a load of lefty 'fringe' performers get their capitalist hats on and seek the highest recompense they can with a bit of attention to, ermmmm, currency!!

Think of the huge savings the NHS can make with the costs of treating obesity-based illnesses when we ration food and have a healthier leaner population as we did after WW2!! Wayne and Waynetta won't be able to guzzle cans of cheap French pisswater lager or overfeed their Kyle and Kylie on industrial-sized packs of Haribos (the most bland-tasting and shittiest confectionery ever made, surely?) and family packs of biscuits and crisps any more. So Boris's extra money could in reality be realized for the NHS.

Tell me any NECESSARY foodstuff we cannot source from outside the E-USSR if required? That doesn't mean Edam, Brie or bloody Lambrusco by the way.

 

[vorcirion]

Don't tell me you're one of the gullible who spent £350-odd or whatever it was on one of these 'Brexit Survival Packs' with aspirins, bog rolls and loads of dried pasta in?

And when I pointed out the other day I'm better off with a plummeting Pound as I receive a fair chunk of my pay in Euros each month, the insinuation was 'I'm alright, f*ck you Jack'. Yet it's newsworthy when a load of lefty 'fringe' performers get their capitalist hats on and seek the highest recompense they can with a bit of attention to, ermmmm, currency!!

Think of the huge savings the NHS can make with the costs of treating obesity-based illnesses when we ration food and have a healthier leaner population as we did after WW2!! Wayne and Waynetta won't be able to guzzle cans of cheap French pisswater lager or overfeed their Kyle and Kylie on industrial-sized packs of Haribos (the most bland-tasting and shittiest confectionery ever made, surely?) and family packs of biscuits and crisps any more. So Boris's extra money could in reality be realized for the NHS.

Tell me any NECESSARY foodstuff we cannot source from outside the E-USSR if required? That doesn't mean Edam, Brie or bloody Lambrusco by the way.

Just an honest question: do you care what happens to your citizens in Brexit? Or is it just what happens to Dunover?

 

[ChopleyIOM]

'Poor people won't be able to eat as much junk food and dunover's pay in Euros will be worth more because the pound will tank'

I wonder why they didn't put that on the side of a bus.

 

[DaftDog]

Oh, pity the fools who fall for slogans on sides of buses and the charm of unscrupulous politicians who peddle hate, for they could never afford to emigrate when the shit does hit the fan.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Well at this rate we'll have adopted the Euro as our currency by proxy, as it'll be worth the same as the pound.

Meanwhile the disaster capitalists (who were, funnily enough, pro-Brexit and contributed to the Leave campaign), are getting ready to make bank out of the misery of others.

Seriously folks, you've been sold a con.

 

[dunover]

'Poor people won't be able to eat as much junk food and dunover's pay in Euros will be worth more because the pound will tank'

I wonder why they didn't put that on the side of a bus.

They did round here:

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I'll give that a Like as it made me chuckle, although we are now at the point where no one's even trying to pretend that there's anything 'good' about Brexit, apart from this nebulous concept of 'taking back control' from the horrible EU that passes all those laws we hate, the laws that no one can ever name a single one of if you ask them to.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Good cartoon in The Economist.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

A very sobering assessment of the UK's situation by a former US Treasury Secretary. (So, y'know, someone who really knows what he's talking about. Still, I'm sure dunover will be along soon to tell us how completely wrong he is about everything.)



I'll even transcribe it for you.

'Britain has no leverage. Britain is desperate. Britain has nothing else. It needs an agreement very soon, when you have a desperate partner that's when you strike the hardest bargain. I mean, the last thing you do is quit a job before you look for your new one. In the same way, establishing absolutely that as a matter of sacred principle you're leaving Europe, has to be the worst way to give you leverage with any new potential partners.'

What do you reckon, does this guy know what's talking about?

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[goatwack]

Hmmm. Only marginally worse than my CV

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Turns out a single departing member of the EU doesn't get to dictate things to the remaining 27 after all.

Has fucking ANYTHING the Leave side campaigned with turned out to be anything other than total bollocks?

 

[nikantw]

That's the thing. It shouldn't be about who is more powerful, it should be about finding the best deal for everybody.

It proves both that there is a problem in EU and that Brexit doesn't solve anything, only makes it worst for everyone but Trump.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

That's the thing. It shouldn't be about who is more powerful, it should be about finding the best deal for everybody.

We already had a fantastic deal, it's called being a member of the EU.

This is Brexit in a nutshell. We already had the best deal as an EU member. Any Brexit deal would by definition be worse than being an EU member. No Deal will be disastrous. (And arguably already is, look at what it's cost the UK in terms of jobs, lost investment, lost businesses and organisations (the European Medicines Agency leaving London, for example), and the fall in the value of the pound - and this is just with it being 'priced in', No Deal hasn't even happened yet.)

It seems the realisation is finally dawning on even ardent Leavers such as Gove that there are negative consequences for leaving, and that things are going to get worse for everyone apart from ultra-rich disaster capitalists who are rubbing their hands together at the 'financial opportunities' of a No Deal Brexit. (Opportunities for them, that is, everyone else can just get fucked as far as they're concerned.)

 

[mack341]

Just putting this out there for consideration as it was written in the Daily Telegraph back in 2000 [so 19 years ago] when people in large numbers still bought newspapers, make of it what you will:

Euro-federalists financed by US spy chiefs
"DECLASSIFIED American government documents show that the US intelligence community ran a campaign in the Fifties and Sixties to build momentum for a united Europe. It funded and directed the European federalist movement.

The documents confirm suspicions voiced at the time that America was working aggressively behind the scenes to push Britain into a European state. One memorandum, dated July 26, 1950, gives instructions for a campaign to promote a fully fledged European parliament. It is signed by Gen William J Donovan, head of the American wartime Office of Strategic Services, precursor of the CIA.

The documents were found by Joshua Paul, a researcher at Georgetown University in Washington. They include files released by the US National Archives. Washington's main tool for shaping the European agenda was the American Committee for a United Europe, created in 1948. The chairman was Donovan, ostensibly a private lawyer by then.

The vice-chairman was Allen Dulles, the CIA director in the Fifties. The board included Walter Bedell Smith, the CIA's first director, and a roster of ex-OSS figures and officials who moved in and out of the CIA. The documents show that ACUE financed the European Movement, the most important federalist organisation in the post-war years. In 1958, for example, it provided 53.5 per cent of the movement's funds.

The European Youth Campaign, an arm of the European Movement, was wholly funded and controlled by Washington. The Belgian director, Baron Boel, received monthly payments into a special account. When the head of the European Movement, Polish-born Joseph Retinger, bridled at this degree of American control and tried to raise money in Europe, he was quickly reprimanded.

The leaders of the European Movement - Retinger, the visionary Robert Schuman and the former Belgian prime minister Paul-Henri Spaak - were all treated as hired hands by their American sponsors. The US role was handled as a covert operation. ACUE's funding came from the Ford and Rockefeller foundations as well as business groups with close ties to the US government.

The head of the Ford Foundation, ex-OSS officer Paul Hoffman, doubled as head of ACUE in the late Fifties. The State Department also played a role. A memo from the European section, dated June 11, 1965, advises the vice-president of the European Economic Community, Robert Marjolin, to pursue monetary union by stealth.
It recommends suppressing debate until the point at which "adoption of such proposals would become virtually inescapable".

Why is the political union and federalisation project so important to the EU, and what was wrong with a simple trade bloc?

All that needs to happen now is a free trade deal. Tariffs hurt both sides of the channel, does the EU really want that to happen, in order to bring us to heel?

 

[Gaz237]

We already had a fantastic deal, it's called being a member of the EU.

This is Brexit in a nutshell. We already had the best deal as an EU member. Any Brexit deal would by definition be worse than being an EU member. No Deal will be disastrous. (And arguably already is, look at what it's cost the UK in terms of jobs, lost investment, lost businesses and organisations (the European Medicines Agency leaving London, for example), and the fall in the value of the pound - and this is just with it being 'priced in', No Deal hasn't even happened yet.)

It seems the realisation is finally dawning on even ardent Leavers such as Gove that there are negative consequences for leaving, and that things are going to get worse for everyone apart from ultra-rich disaster capitalists who are rubbing their hands together at the 'financial opportunities' of a No Deal Brexit. (Opportunities for them, that is, everyone else can just get fucked as far as they're concerned.)

Weather you think we had the best deal by being a member of Europe, means nothing.

The British public have voted to LEAVE. It really is as simple as that.

Cherry picking arguments against leaving, again mean nothing.

Good, bad or ugly. Leaving is what the public wanted, so lets get on with it.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Why is the political union and federalisation project so important to the EU, and what was wrong with a simple trade bloc?

I have no idea mack, but it doesn't really matter, does it? Because it's not what's on offer and never has been.

However, I'd suggest as a starting point that as a continent. Europe has been ravaged by war for centuries, and the EU has brought about the longest and most prosperous period of peace in our history.

All that needs to happen now is a free trade deal. Tariffs hurt both sides of the channel, does the EU really want that to happen, in order to bring us to heel?

So the one thing that needs to happen is the exact thing that the EU said was not available since before the referendum was even held, and surprise surprise isn't on offer now either.

The four freedoms of EU membership are indivisible, we were told this well before anyone cast a vote in the referendum, no one can reasonably claim to be surprised or accuse the EU of being 'inflexible' now.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Weather you think we had the best deal by being a member of Europe, means nothing.

The British public have voted to LEAVE. It really is as simple as that.

Cherry picking arguments against leaving, again mean nothing.

Good, bad or ugly. Leaving is what the public wanted, so lets get on with it.

But that literally makes no sense Gaz, typing LEAVE in capital letters doesn't change the fact that the very day after we crash out of the EU with No Deal, we'll have to go straight back to them the very next day to start trying to sort out everything that gets broken overnight, or in other words, y'know, a Deal.

Except whatever Deal we get will be a lot worse than what we've got now.

And don't think the USA are going to come to our rescue, they've got some of the hardest and most ruthless trade negotiators in the world, they'll rip us to pieces. If think we're subservient to the EU, wait and see what the USA will do to us.

'The British public voted to walk off the edge of this cliff, cherry picking arguments against walking off the edge of the cliff mean nothing, walking off the edge of the cliff is what the public wanted, so let's get on with it.'

 

[Gaz237]

But that literally makes no sense Gaz, typing LEAVE in capital letters doesn't change the fact that the very day after we crash out of the EU with No Deal, we'll have to go straight back to them the very next day to start trying to sort out everything that gets broken overnight, or in other words, y'know, a Deal.

Except whatever Deal we get will be a lot worse than what we've got now.

And don't think the USA are going to come to our rescue, they've got some of the hardest and most ruthless trade negotiators in the world, they'll rip us to pieces. If think we're subservient to the EU, wait and see what the USA will do to us.

'The British public voted to walk off the edge of this cliff, cherry picking arguments against walking off the edge of the cliff mean nothing, walking off the edge of the cliff is what the public wanted, so let's get on with it.'

The simple fact was, we are leaving, get used to it.

What ever deals are negotiated after that fact, are simply that, after leaving, and will be what they will be. Good bad or ugly.

 

[mack341]

I have no idea mack, but it doesn't really matter, does it? Because it's not what's on offer and never has been.

However, I'd suggest as a starting point that as a continent. Europe has been ravaged by war for centuries, and the EU has brought about the longest and most prosperous period of peace in our history.



So the one thing that needs to happen is the exact thing that the EU said was not available since before the referendum was even held, and surprise surprise isn't on offer now either.

The four freedoms of EU membership are indivisible, we were told this well before anyone cast a vote in the referendum, no one can reasonably claim to be surprised or accuse the EU of being 'inflexible' now.

Even if an inflexible approach to the four freedoms hurts their own members economies, they are indivisible?

How come then japan and canada have signed mutually beneficial (free) trade deals with the EU?

 

[steveh35]

I have no idea mack, but it doesn't really matter, does it? Because it's not what's on offer and never has been.

However, I'd suggest as a starting point that as a continent. Europe has been ravaged by war for centuries, and the EU has brought about the longest and most prosperous period of peace in our history.



So the one thing that needs to happen is the exact thing that the EU said was not available since before the referendum was even held, and surprise surprise isn't on offer now either.

The four freedoms of EU membership are indivisible, we were told this well before anyone cast a vote in the referendum, no one can reasonably claim to be surprised or accuse the EU of being 'inflexible' now.

Did Yugoslavian war in the 1990s suddenly fall from your memory. it's funny how remainers always state there has been peace since 1945 on European soil but seem to forget about Yugoslavia also Ukraine isn't exactly peaceful is it?

 

[ChopleyIOM]

The simple fact was, we are leaving, get used to it.

What ever deals are negotiated after that fact, are simply that, after leaving, and will be what they will be. Good bad or ugly.

I am used to it, I just think it's a ridiculous act of self-harm and will continue to debate that position.

Also, I don't remember anyone talking about us having to scrabble around for 'ugly' deals when the referendum was held.

 

[goatwack]

Don't forget the Cod War in 1958

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Did Yugoslavian war in the 1990s suddenly fall from your memory. it's funny how remainers always state there has been peace since 1945 on European soil but seem to forget about Yugoslavia also Ukraine isn't exactly peaceful is it?

I absolutely didn't state there has been peace in Europe since 1945.

 

[steveh35]

I absolutely didn't state there has been peace in Europe since 1945.

EU has brought about the longest and most prosperous period of peace in our history.
In that case your statement is wrong as the EU has not brought about the longest period of peace if you include Yugoslavia and Ukraine plus IRA from 1971 to 1997 (and now if include the splinter groups).

 

[paul7388]

EU has brought about the longest and most prosperous period of peace in our history.
In that case your statement is wrong as the EU has not brought about the longest period of peace if you include Yugoslavia and Ukraine plus IRA from 1971 to 1997 (and now if include the splinter groups).

To be fair neither Yugoslavia or Ukraine were or are members of the EU.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

How come then japan and canada have signed mutually beneficial (free) trade deals with the EU?

The ones that took over five years to negotiate and another three years to implement you mean?

That's probably something we should have thought about before deciding to crash out of the EU without any such deal in place at the end of October.

 

[steveh35]

To be fair neither Yugoslavia or Ukraine were or are members of the EU.

Remainers state that there has been peace in EUROPE since 1945 not the EU but they claim the EU has brought peace to Europe which is a lie.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

EU has brought about the longest and most prosperous period of peace in our history.
In that case your statement is wrong as the EU has not brought about the longest period of peace if you include Yugoslavia and Ukraine plus IRA from 1971 to 1997 (and now if include the splinter groups).

So if we include things that have nothing to do with what I was saying, then I'm wrong?

Does Star Wars count as well? That happened in 1977 so I guess we could add it into the mix.

 

[dunover]

I have no idea mack, but it doesn't really matter, does it? Because it's not what's on offer and never has been.

However, I'd suggest as a starting point that as a continent. Europe has been ravaged by war for centuries, and the EU has brought about the longest and most prosperous period of peace in our history.

Bollocks. NATO has. Sod-all to do with the EU. Look what happened in the Balkans too, and WHO actually helped there? And try getting EU countries to put their fair share into the defence budget of 2%+ GDP
Guess who does? Yep, muggins UK, Estonia and believe it not, Greece.

The EU relies on a friggin' expensive nuclear shield paid for by the US and UK, which means they can ponce away what they should be spending for their armed forces on other less important things.

 

[paul7388]

Remainers state that there has been peace in EUROPE since 1945 not the EU but they claim the EU has brought peace to Europe which is a lie.

Think the argument is showing that since EU formed there has been peace between it's member states and trying to show why Britain an Isolated Island is Better in than out.

All depends on what peoples perspective is and what matters. Makes no odds to me.

But you have people like Sturgeon in Scotland wanting rid of Nuclear Deterrent and same with Corbyn in England. And with all the cuts to armed forces you can see why some people would feel safer in especially with Russia playing games. But that is a totally different debate from Brexit.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Bollocks. NATO has. Sod-all to do with the EU. Look what happened in the Balkans too, and WHO actually helped there? And try getting EU countries to put their fair share into the defence budget of 2%+ GDP
Guess who does? Yep, muggins UK, Estonia and believe it not, Greece.

So will we not need to spend on defence once we leave the EU then? Or will it be better because we can just spend on our own defence and won't have to worry about those pesky friends and allies of ours in Europe?

Also, our army and navy are not in good shape at the moment, if we got into any sort of major ruckus we'd be needing help right off the bat.

 

[steveh35]

Remain group article:

The EU was created to ensure peace in a continent torn by centuries of conflict that culminated in WW2. Within the European Economic Area, there has been no war since 1945; this peace, known as Pax Europaea (European peace), is the longest since the end of Pax Romana in 180 CE. For this achievement, the EU was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 2012.

They really do like to omit the parts they don't want to remember.

 

[TheAddict]

Star Wars totally counts.

 

[dunover]

So will we not need to spend on defence once we leave the EU then? Or will it be better because we can just spend on our own defence and won't have to worry about those pesky friends and allies of ours in Europe?

Also, our army and navy are not in good shape at the moment, if we got into any sort of major ruckus we'd be needing help right off the bat.

Yes, you're right, and we DO spend the dosh! That should tell you how far worse things are for the other EU countries who can barely raise a frigate or two.
And just who has shed blood down the centuries sorting out tinpot dictators in mainland Europe, like Napoleon, The Kaiser and Adolf etc. while we were in peace with at least a form of democracy? Yep, muggins UK. The former is what led to the creation of Belgium, ironically where the seat of power is for this calamitous pile of crap EU Parliament. So given all that blood and money sacrificed, you think they've got a right to whine about the Channel Islands, Gibraltar etc?

Maybe when we are out, we can spend a few more billion each year replenishing our military hardware as opposed to subsidizing Spanish tomatoes with our contributions.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Remain group article:

The EU was created to ensure peace in a continent torn by centuries of conflict that culminated in WW2. Within the European Economic Area, there has been no war since 1945; this peace, known as Pax Europaea (European peace), is the longest since the end of Pax Romana in 180 CE. For this achievement, the EU was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 2012.

They really do like to omit the parts they don't want to remember.

And what does any of that actually have to do with Brexit and why crashing out of EU at the end of October without a deal is anything other than a terrible idea?

 

[pinnit2014]

Don't forget the Cod War in 1958

Here’s me thinking we are all pacifishts

 

[mack341]

The ones that took over five years to negotiate and another three years to implement you mean?

That's probably something we should have thought about before deciding to crash out of the EU without any such deal in place at the end of October.

I was talking about the principle not the actual time it took to negotiate as I thought you said a free trade deal was non negotiable once we left the club due to the four tenets/freedoms.

For us It shouldn't really take that long to negotiate the terms of a deal as we've been trading on free terms for the last 40 odd years. Take may's deal and strip out the one sided stuff for instance. 'no, no' say the eu, 'the backstop is essential.'

Also wasn't barnier quoted as saying "I’ll have done my job if, in the end, the deal is so tough on the British that they’d prefer to stay in the EU”.

 

[steveh35]

And what does any of that actually have to do with Brexit and why crashing out of EU at the end of October without a deal is anything other than a terrible idea?

You brought up the subject of the EU being peaceful and prosperous not me pal.

 

[goatwack]

Here’s me thinking we are all pacifishts

We're Louvars not fighters

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Yes, you're right, and we DO spend the dosh! That should tell you how far worse things are for the other EU countries who can barely raise a frigate or two.
And just who has shed blood down the centuries sorting out tinpot dictators in mainland Europe, like Napoleon, The Kaiser and Adolf etc. while we were in peace with at least a form of democracy? Yep, muggins UK. The former is what led to the creation of Belgium, ironically where the seat of power is for this calamitous pile of crap EU Parliament. So given all that blood and money sacrificed, you think they've got a right to whine about the Channel Islands, Gibraltar etc?

Napoleon was over 200 years ago dude. And I see we're on Adolf again, so back to World War II.

 

[goatwack]

 

[dunover]

Napoleon was over 200 years ago dude. And I see we're on Adolf again, so back to World War II.

Instead of relying on sound bites and tweets from crazed democracy-deniers on the remoaner side, I suggest you read up on how and why the EC/EEC/EU came into being, and when it was first mooted, even mentioned by Churchill - yep - 1945.

 

[Matti]

Bollocks. NATO has. Sod-all to do with the EU. Look what happened in the Balkans too, and WHO actually helped there? And try getting EU countries to put their fair share into the defence budget of 2%+ GDP
Guess who does? Yep, muggins UK, Estonia and believe it not, Greece.

The EU relies on a friggin' expensive nuclear shield paid for by the US and UK, which means they can ponce away what they should be spending for their armed forces on other less important things.

So you want to leave the EU because some NATO members, that are also members of the EU, don't live up to the commitment made to NATO??

 

[ChopleyIOM]

So whilst dunover is banging on about Napoleon (!?!?!), WWII and Churchill, here's Britain's actual head of counter terrorism speaking in the year 2019 (as opposed to the year 1945), explaining why a No Deal Brexit will harm the UK's security and make it more vulnerable to serious crime and terrorism.

Let the game of 'MSM', 'Project Fear', 'Liberal Remoaner', 'You lost, get over it' etc Word Bingo start now!

In fairness this is not particularly new, and these concerns were raised years ago, but were of course airily waved away as 'Project Fear', which like so much of 'Project Fear' is now turning out to be 'Project Imminent Reality'.

Speaking in a wide-ranging interview in which he also warned that boosts to police and security service numbers were no longer enough to combat terrorism, he said: “We can make them [the damaging effects] less, but they would be slower systems. Those systems and tools were developed in the EU for very good reason. They were very good. We had just signed up to biometric sharing.

“In a no deal we’d lose all that. We’d have to renegotiate it.”

The three key measures are fast access to intelligence and data through the Schengen Information System II database, as well as passenger name records, and the ability to use European arrest warrants.

Basu said: “We have done a lot of contingency planning to put things in place. But there are some things you can’t put in place. So there is no contingency planning for not being given passenger name records.

“It would create an immediate risk that people could come to this country who were serious offenders, either wanted or still serial and serious offenders committing crimes in this country, and we would not know about it. It creates that risk.

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[steveh35]

So whilst dunover is banging on about Napoleon (!?!?!), WWII and Churchill, here's Britain's actual head of counter terrorism speaking in the year 2019 (as opposed to the year 1945), explaining why a No Deal Brexit will harm the UK's security and make it more vulnerable to serious crime and terrorism.

Let the game of 'MSM', 'Project Fear', 'Liberal Remoaner', 'You lost, get over it' etc Word Bingo start now!

View attachment 112461

In fairness this is not particularly new, and these concerns were raised years ago, but were of course airily waved away as 'Project Fear', which like so much of 'Project Fear' is now turning out to be 'Project Imminent Reality'.

Speaking in a wide-ranging interview in which he also warned that boosts to police and security service numbers were no longer enough to combat terrorism, he said: “We can make them [the damaging effects] less, but they would be slower systems. Those systems and tools were developed in the EU for very good reason. They were very good. We had just signed up to biometric sharing.

“In a no deal we’d lose all that. We’d have to renegotiate it.”

The three key measures are fast access to intelligence and data through the Schengen Information System II database, as well as passenger name records, and the ability to use European arrest warrants.

Basu said: “We have done a lot of contingency planning to put things in place. But there are some things you can’t put in place. So there is no contingency planning for not being given passenger name records.

“It would create an immediate risk that people could come to this country who were serious offenders, either wanted or still serial and serious offenders committing crimes in this country, and we would not know about it. It creates that risk.

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[bamberfishcake]

Heard on the radio that if we leave we might not be able to get vital medicine that we get through europe - I cannot take anymore lies or scaremongering!

I said from day one we would not leave. They have stalled and stalled and stalled and along the way you can bet your bottom dollar that the instigators of this farce have made a fortune from the uncertainty and chaos and will continue to do so.

One fact remains, if (i think when) we do not leave, democracy in the UK dies, if it hasnt already.

If the public did vote to jump off of a cliff because the government gave us the option to vote to jump off of a cliff then we should jump off of a cliff. I know some people disagree but dont listen to all the bull about leaving. The EU was a great idea but we have never made it the economic powerhouse that it could have been and have slowly fallen down the rank of world influence. We should have left when we said and struck trade deals with the rest of the world. If a man is selling you Apples and you decide to go buy some elsewhere do you think he will refuse you if you return to buy more?

Democracy is not always about the winning choice but it is about giving everybody a say and doing what the majority vote for. If they do not honour the vote then they have no respect for it and should be removed from their positions.

We still have one of the biggest financial hubs of the world with billionaires from the world over residing in our capital. Do you think they are going to continue to play in the UK if they cant get some medicine or the range of luxury goods they want.

Dont believe the hype!

 

[ChopleyIOM]

If the public did vote to jump off of a cliff because the government gave us the option to vote to jump off of a cliff then we should jump off of a cliff.

So what about the 48% of Remain voters who didn't vote to jump off a cliff?

What about the folks within the 52% who voted to Leave who weren't actually voting to jump off a cliff, and who believed what they were told about what a great and easy deal the UK would get?

To use the WWII evocations that dunover is so fond of, imagine if the folks in the shelters during the Blitz had learned that 52% of the people in there had voted for the bombs.....

 

[ternur]

So whilst dunover is banging on about Napoleon (!?!?!), WWII and Churchill, here's Britain's actual head of counter terrorism speaking in the year 2019 (as opposed to the year 1945), explaining why a No Deal Brexit will harm the UK's security and make it more vulnerable to serious crime and terrorism.

Let the game of 'MSM', 'Project Fear', 'Liberal Remoaner', 'You lost, get over it' etc Word Bingo start now!

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In fairness this is not particularly new, and these concerns were raised years ago, but were of course airily waved away as 'Project Fear', which like so much of 'Project Fear' is now turning out to be 'Project Imminent Reality'.

Speaking in a wide-ranging interview in which he also warned that boosts to police and security service numbers were no longer enough to combat terrorism, he said: “We can make them [the damaging effects] less, but they would be slower systems. Those systems and tools were developed in the EU for very good reason. They were very good. We had just signed up to biometric sharing.

“In a no deal we’d lose all that. We’d have to renegotiate it.”

The three key measures are fast access to intelligence and data through the Schengen Information System II database, as well as passenger name records, and the ability to use European arrest warrants.

Basu said: “We have done a lot of contingency planning to put things in place. But there are some things you can’t put in place. So there is no contingency planning for not being given passenger name records.

“It would create an immediate risk that people could come to this country who were serious offenders, either wanted or still serial and serious offenders committing crimes in this country, and we would not know about it. It creates that risk.

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Another negative consequence related to security has been the sloppy and unsafe use of the SIS database which the UK had restricted access to and will have no access after brexit. In fear of losing even the restricted access, the UK made illegal copies of the database. But used the static version, resulting in working with outdated data.

And even worse, the UK let private sector companies access that data. Some of them are US based companies, and they might be forced to hand that data over to US government if requested under the Patriot Act.

Well done

 

[dunover]

So what about the 48% of Remain voters who didn't vote to jump off a cliff?

What about the folks within the 52% who voted to Leave who weren't actually voting to jump off a cliff, and who believed what they were told about what a great and easy deal the UK would get?

To use the WWII evocations that dunover is so fond of, imagine if the folks in the shelters during the Blitz had learned that 52% of the people in there had voted for the bombs.....

Now your logic has really 'jumped off a cliff'.

So if the nightmare of Corbum winning a GE comes to pass, can the 65-70% who didn't vote for him demand a 're-vote'??