New Slot Announcement Bonanza by Big Time Gaming

[Reelsoffun]

So what your really saying then is really a standard 12 spin bonus with no pre win is worth 86.4x average, but in reality its worth even less and that just dont seem to be the case, which implies the math model is different, as I strongly suspect

I did not work on the game so wouldn't know and no one does

 

[lukey141]

The only thing we know for sure is that in order to hit 96% RTP buys have to pay an average of 86.4x back. Since you go straight into a 12 spin bonus every time with a starting win of 0 that has to mean all 86.4x is coming from those 12 spins (+ any retriggers).

Now again I don't know this but this is what people say. Bonanza bonuses are not predetermined but each spin is random. Assuming that is accurate then yes BTG could use different weighted reels for their buys vs spun in bonuses. But it seems more likely they are the same reels.

EG: Natural GOLD with no tumble start with 0 win, 12 spins. That should pay on average 86.4x because the setup is exactly like a bought bonus.

Technically it would be possible to track this if you noted specifically every 0 start win natural bonus though it's a lot of effort to prove something that isn't really all that important anyway.

The extra juice comes from the times where you're tumbling in wins beforehand or start with more spins.

From my data so far I have had 34 bonuses that were natural GOLD (+ 1 natural GOLD+5 which I have removed). Now I know that some of these will have paid a bit before but obviously tumbled GOLD will always pay something or it couldn't have tumbled while natural can (and more often is) straight in with 0 win.


So 34 natural bonuses have paid an average 89.7x.

Meanwhile I've had 67 tumbled in bonuses which includes +5. Those have paid 107.4x on average.

I know it's a small sample but the pattern that is starting to show from that is natural bonuses pay less because they are only ever 12 spins and more likely to have 0 or very small pre bonus wins. It's already quite close the the 86.4x buy figure and is probably explained away by pre bonus wins on the naturals that I haven't noted but will surely have happened.

I'll start to keep track of prebonus wins to get a better picture of this though.

 

[lukey141]

I was able to go back and see where I had taken screenshots of bonuses triggering. Not that many but a couple to mention at least.

What really stands out is this. The 13 naturals I have data for 12 were 0x, 1 paid 6x.

For the tumbles I've got 22 entries. The average win on a tumbled bonus is 6.9x. As I always round down so a 4.9x win would only be listed as 4x the actual number is going to be a bit higher.

Then the final point is that a bought bonus will always be an average of 12.0000 spins because you simply can't start with more.

Meanwhile across all 103 bonuses the average start spin I'm getting is 12.58. So every bonus is getting over half a spin extra on average which will be bumping up the average X.

All that being said I can see a world where the reels used for a bought vs spun in bonus are the same. The only reason the average wins are different is due to what happens before the bonus starts.

 

[Reelsoffun]

I get what your saying and agree with most of it, I meant the same in a round about way. In some ways I regret not tracking the pre win amount on features, however mathematically and for arguments sake it’s all part of the same game round.

But also however even the buy ones, although can’t start with pre wins or more than the 12 they do have to allow for the retriggers, which as you rightly say puts the average up so you have to ask yourself where does that extra RTP get accounted for as it can’t charge you more, and even only a few extra x average would make it worth more than you pay for buys so there has to be some difference.

Let’s say over long period those retriggers on buys are worth an extra 5x ( by my data on normal bonuses show extra 9x on average last time I checked on just one retrigger ) but let’s just say 5x as that not unreasonable so this would now add to the 86.4x we know about, making it actually a winning proposition which we both no will not be the case so I feel there is either something being tweaked on the buy version, or most likely there are not the same feature parameters of buy vs natural.

I have to be careful what I say as I’m under NDA’s but would love to explain how at least one provider was doing bonus buys and it’s totally not what you would even imagine.

 

[lukey141]

Well yes sure but at the same time you can retrigger in a bought bonus and a regular one. We have no way to know if the odds of said retrigger are identical in both situations.

Likewise the extra payouts from retriggers will already be accounted for in the expected average.

So say you never got a retrigger on a bought bonus you only got an 81x average. You need the retrigger bonuses to cover that extra 5x.

But you are right, I haven't got any real idea this is purely speculation based on the numbers available. I wouldn't at all be surprised to hear it's completely different. It's unfortunate as the numbers all line up to sell the story that makes sense but maybe it's just a red herring.

Also from my small sample I've had 9 retrigger bonuses that started as 12 spins (so 17 total). The average win on them so far is only 77x. I'm obviously running very poorly on them and can't really make a meaningful comparison. Meanwhile my 12 spin start no retrigger bonuses (85 of them) are at 101x average.

So basically as of now when I see a retrigger I should expect a worse outcome haha

 

[Jono777]

Mini Rant:

Fuck me this thing was hungry tonight

200x loss in just over 20 mins on min bet

Gol'ing like crazy but alas, as per, no D

 

[lukey141]

Sounds similar to what I just witnessed.

103x in, all gone in 10 and a half minutes. WTF

The game just pooped out 33% RTP giving me just 154 spins from my 103x deposit.

I don't think I've ever had a deposit go as fast and poorly as that. No tease, biggest win a 5x. Holy shit.

 

[sufferinsilence]

Honestly, the past months most of my sessions on other slots have been like that.

I lost over 30 deposits (always relatively small ones mind you) in a row in a week or so and am on a break now. All my deposit limits are on €10/week so it's useless to even deposit. On a couple of deposits I would get ahead but then the next game would destroy my balance. There comes a point where it's not fun anymore.

 

[lukey141]

Yeah I've set heavy limits on my accounts. Given back way too much lately.

Will go back to poker for entertainment. At least there I can make money in the long run, it's just so much more effort than just clicking spin!