Beware Bet365 RTP Change

[PMKFRUITPRO]

Jeez nobody is raging.

And besides it was you who called me deluded.

Deluded for playing at the ONLY UK facing casino who has top RTP across the board and some Netents as high as 99%.

I don’t care for free spins or tournaments or any of that somethimg for nothing nonsense. All I care about is getting the best bang for my buck long term.

And I can assure you, that you will on 96%+ more than u will on 94%.

If you like getting free spins then head over to William hill. Daily deposit offers for 60-100 free spins but of course there is a price to pay for that……. Diabolical RTP.

But if you think the casino controls what ur gonna win and bonus frequency and what they pay you then that’s irrelevant I guess.

I just think that you ran like a god on bass games early on, Litterally lottery odds to get what u were describing and now like others tried to warn you it’s not a common occurrence at all on those games and the flip side is brutal. Which you are now experiencing.

Hope that’s not to angry for you!!!

 

[avfcalex23]

I looked at those screenshots and couldn't see anything wrong, big bass always played like that for me

What you suggest about RTP and certain times, controlling every aspect etc. just wouldn't be worth it.

Firstly it would be illegal according to the UK regs. The big UK companies are turning over billions every year and making between 300m-500m profit. It would be extremely unlikely for any one of them let alone the smaller companies to risk those kinds of profits to be exposed for doing something so unnecessary either by players or even their competitors who would probably love to take their market share.

Secondly they can do plenty of things to increase profits like go for lower RTP versions, like is happening, or even just introduce/promote other products with better margins or faster turnaround than slots i.e. bingo 70-85% RTP, in-house progressive jackpots 85% RTP etc.

Thirdly to change the RTP at certain times or profile players and control every aspect of a slot would require a hell of a lot of additional programming and all the overheads that come with it like additional servers and staff, to do something that is illegal. It would be like a slot company having to implement a simpler version of all the real-time monitoring and feedback that goes into something like google maps. Would be ridiculous tbh.

Also, just for fun, what if it's the site's that you do well at that could be up to something

Personally I was way more skeptical of slots that played too well when I first started, just always felt like I was being set up for something!

A fair and polite response once more. Who knew, there’s some decent people on this site

I’ll take into account your points and stop whining like a little b for a while… keep telling myself it must just be a bad run lol.

 

[lukey141]

I think many people (myself included) sometimes forget we're supposed to be losing when we sit down to spin.

It doesn't matter if you play at 96% or 94% or 92% it's still a losing proposition. That being said if you're a £1 better losing 4p a spin is a significantly better option to losing 6 or even 8p.

You do a small amount of spins and get wrecked and then it's like well you didn't do enough spins to even out variance. Then you do a larger number of spins and see you're still down at which point it's like well that makes sense because if the game is lining up to RTP you should expect to be down.

You either hit a lucky early bonus and never touch the game again or you're always going to end up losing. Hell even a 20kx max win on your first spin if you play long enough you'll give it all back and more.

From the screenshots you posted a while back on the big bass games you had some sort of generational run, made all the more impressive that it was on lower RTP games. Not the normal experience for most people though. When I hammered away on the games, admittedly the early few versions, my experience was the base game struggled to keep the balance up and without a bonus you were cooked. Then too frequently the bonus would be a 15-20x scripted min win. These were all played on max rtp on various sites a number of years ago. I also won 6 free spins on a 92% version last night and got 2 bonuses in those spins, a 92x and a 43x. So yeah any RTP version can pay in a small sample if you get lucky with the RNG.

 

[2Slots]

The mods making @avfcalex23 and @PMKFRUITPRO make up for the good of the forum

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

Nico was to blame!!

 

[Avernite]

...you guys get bonuses on big bass games?

 

[PeenyBunslinger]

There’s literally no need for you to be getting annoyed on a casino forum on the internet.

I’ll take into account your points and stop whining like a little b for a while…

And yet you're suddenly much more receptive to the exact same information you've already been given multiple times, presented to you in the exact same way as before. So maybe there was?

And you're allowed to whine, you're encouraged to whine. That's what the "screenshots that suck" thread is.
What you shouldn't do is post nonsense conspiracies to explain basic maths, ask people if it makes any sense, then after it's explained that it doesn't, you shrug your shoulders and say in so many words, "Don't care. I'm convinced. Anyone who doesn't agree with me is a casino nuthugger." That's obstinate, obnoxious behaviour and it's annoying on an internet forum, in a letter, in speech or any other way that it's communicated.

 

[avfcalex23]

And yet you're suddenly much more receptive to the exact same information you've already been given multiple times, presented to you in the exact same way as before. So maybe there was?

And you're allowed to whine, you're encouraged to whine. That's what the "screenshots that suck" thread is.
What you shouldn't do is post nonsense conspiracies to explain basic maths, ask people if it makes any sense, then after it's explained that it doesn't, you shrug your shoulders and say in so many words, "Don't care. I'm convinced. Anyone who doesn't agree with me is a casino nuthugger." That's obstinate, obnoxious behaviour and it's annoying on an internet forum, in a letter, in speech or any other way that it's communicated.

I’ve got a wild idea, click my profile, select the ‘ignore’ tab and scroll on with your merry day. No one is forcing you to read my obstinate obnoxious opinions and even more so spend your time replying to them.

 

[avfcalex23]

Jeez nobody is raging.

And besides it was you who called me deluded.

Deluded for playing at the ONLY UK facing casino who has top RTP across the board and some Netents as high as 99%.

I don’t care for free spins or tournaments or any of that somethimg for nothing nonsense. All I care about is getting the best bang for my buck long term.

And I can assure you, that you will on 96%+ more than u will on 94%.

If you like getting free spins then head over to William hill. Daily deposit offers for 60-100 free spins but of course there is a price to pay for that……. Diabolical RTP.

But if you think the casino controls what ur gonna win and bonus frequency and what they pay you then that’s irrelevant I guess.

I just think that you ran like a god on bass games early on, Litterally lottery odds to get what u were describing and now like others tried to warn you it’s not a common occurrence at all on those games and the flip side is brutal. Which you are now experiencing.

Hope that’s not to angry for you!!!

Much nicer, and appreciated

For what it’s worth, you say you don’t care for free spins. Duelz is currently giving me ten free spins a day along with sister site NYspins and I hit £10.90 off ten 10p free spins with a x10 wagering requirement earlier. Managed to wager it and withdraw £65 from free spins. I will never ever knock any site that gives out free spins, even though I had a cheeky moan at Mr Q last week when they text me as a good will gesture after my horrific run.

ST doesn’t offer anything like that, and is actually the only casino I play on that doesn’t offer anything in the way of promotions.

I really want to actually prove to you that I believe what I’m saying is correct. What would you consider an adequate sample size to work with? Is 50,000 spins enough? I am happy to grind 10p spins over a certain time period on ST, Casumo, PP, Duelz and All British, the five casinos I have used the most…. And post my results.

 

[PeenyBunslinger]

You’re another one on here that I just don’t want to ever hear from. Every time your name comes up it’s

select the ‘ignore’ tab and scroll on with your merry day.

 

[lukey141]

Much nicer, and appreciated

For what it’s worth, you say you don’t care for free spins. Duelz is currently giving me ten free spins a day along with sister site NYspins and I hit £10.90 off ten 10p free spins with a x10 wagering requirement earlier. Managed to wager it and withdraw £65 from free spins. I will never ever knock any site that gives out free spins, even though I had a cheeky moan at Mr Q last week when they text me as a good will gesture after my horrific run.

ST doesn’t offer anything like that, and is actually the only casino I play on that doesn’t offer anything in the way of promotions.

I really want to actually prove to you that I believe what I’m saying is correct. What would you consider an adequate sample size to work with? Is 50,000 spins enough? I am happy to grind 10p spins over a certain time period on ST, Casumo, PP, Duelz and All British, the five casinos I have used the most…. And post my results.

Ultimately if you decide Slots Temple is not for you and you prefer the lower RTP versions at other sites that then also offer additional incentives that's a valid decision. I'd love to see the actual maths behind 96% with no extras and 94% with some free spins or other kickbacks. I have to believe that extra 2% is worth way more than some 10/20p spins. Casino's will have run the numbers and come to this too else they'd not be offering it.

For what it's worth overlooking the 1p tournament on Slots Temple is a mistake. I've taken the first place (£100) spot on the 1p daily 5 times since I started using the site a bunch september last year and I took 2 months off entering in that time.

Your EV on the free ones is pretty crap given just how many people enter but the daily 1p one is well worth it. Even if it maxes out at 3000 entries that's £30 of entries playing for £200 of prizes. That means £170 extra s dished out between all entrants. Doing all 25 entries generates £1.67 of EV minus the entry you're still netting £1.42 a day in value. That is £500 over the course of the year for spinning slots risk free. If you want to spin slots AND have a chance of winning actual money with 0 risk this is as good as it gets.

That's not even to mention that less popular games can get only 2000-2500 entrants which will bump the EV up a bunch.

 

[PeenyBunslinger]

I have to believe that extra 2% is worth way more than some 10/20p spins.

Is it a fact Slots Temple doesn't do free spins? I remember someone posted a while back about cashing out on (I think 50) free spins from ST. He might've won them in a tournament or through a provider promotion, but I was left with the impression he'd gotten them from ST. Maybe they do birthday free spins?

 

[lukey141]

So they used to offer it might have been £3? to use as 10p/20p/50p spins (you could choose) each Sunday on a set game as long as you wagered £50 the previous week. That promo stopped running last year, probably as part of the cutbacks they had to do to allow them to keep RTP at 96% with the tax increases.

They also occasionally pay out tournament spots with free spins instead of money so it could have been that if it was recent.

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

Much nicer, and appreciated

For what it’s worth, you say you don’t care for free spins. Duelz is currently giving me ten free spins a day along with sister site NYspins and I hit £10.90 off ten 10p free spins with a x10 wagering requirement earlier. Managed to wager it and withdraw £65 from free spins. I will never ever knock any site that gives out free spins, even though I had a cheeky moan at Mr Q last week when they text me as a good will gesture after my horrific run.

ST doesn’t offer anything like that, and is actually the only casino I play on that doesn’t offer anything in the way of promotions.

I really want to actually prove to you that I believe what I’m saying is correct. What would you consider an adequate sample size to work with? Is 50,000 spins enough? I am happy to grind 10p spins over a certain time period on ST, Casumo, PP, Duelz and All British, the five casinos I have used the most…. And post my results.

Prove to me what?? I don’t get what it is ur trying to prove to me?? That the lower rtp math models at other casinos play better then the higher ones. Or that slots temple is rigged???

I’ve actually played quite a lot of big bass stuff over the last couple of months. I’ve had some nice wins too. I only play with the enhanced bonus chance on (which is a little vague in its description tbf) stating a higher chance? Yes but how much higher!! With the older prags it use to state double chance but for just 25% stake increase. Now it’s 50% or in some case double the stake amount but you don’t know what ur getting for it. IMO it should be stated exactly what it is ur getting for ur extra money.

I also got deeply involved in the new races reel repeat the other day. Everything turned on for £1.50 a pop but just 60p base stake. I mean wtf? It’s just so brutal playing it in that way. I was £300 deep in 25 mins. You Litterally need a bonus every 30 odd spins to have a chance of getting a game out if it. I seemingly got rather unlucky with the repeats as well as about my first 10 bonuses didn’t repeat once!!

I got a slightly improved game the next time I tried it but it’s just to brutal. With the usual shite base game if you can’t hit bonuses ur in a world of trouble within minutes!!

I often play them on 20p base 30p enhanced and use them to do bonus hunts on as they can bonus fairly quickly tbf. However without that on I’ve gone a rediculous amount of spins for them to land and with the dreadful base game and mostly shite features when they do land I can’t see how people play them normally without the enhanced. Endless dead spins with nothing happening most of the time.

With regards to free spins and tournaments etc etc I’m just not really that interested. Don’t get me wrong I’ll take all the freebies I’m offered but I’ve no interest in tournaments etc.

I use certain casinos for certain games but will never entertain playing a 94% slot when I can play it at 96% somewhere else. To me that is slotting suicide and makes no sense what so ever. That’s not to say of course u can’t still get lucky on the lower ones but again, long term the difference is enormous in game time.

In terms of better promos etc etc. Paddy Power look after me. But then that’s because I’ve played a LOT of bonanza there and I mean a lot. I get £25 in bonus funds with no wagering every monday and they’ll drop me £40-£60 as a games bonus now and again with no wagering. Plus all sorts of freebies and money back on the betting side of it. Again I won’t touch their mid level RTP stuff at all. Annoyingly they reduced all play n go and prags a while back and as a result have never had a single penny off me on those since.

I’d rather slots temple ditched all tournaments completely and what little free spins they give out and chucked a bonus with wagering to the regular players but it’s unlikely to happen. And as much as I champion the fact they’re the only uk casino with max across the board they’ve pissed me off by slapping a £500 monthly limit on me just recently.

I just think it’s hard enough to get a game as it is these days and I want to give myself the best chance of achieving that. So it’s max only for me. The minute that goes I won’t be playing.

 

[mack341]

Recently, I had hit my monthly deposit limits at the couple of places I play, all I had left was Virgin games and I fancied a go on a bass game.

Now theirs are on the chronically pathetic 92%rtp, but I decided I will only deposit £10, thus limiting the damage.

Because they're so many bass games I can't actually remember which one it was, might have been the 007 mission one or lake wotsit. But anyway it wouldn't stop bonusing, for that sum of money I got at least 15 bonuses, but none of them paid anything much or got to the 2x spin section, I seem to recall getting my balance up to £22 or 19, that was the high mark. ( I think I then raised my stake to 20p )

My theory in the end was they had decided to increase the bonus frequency to offset the limitations of the base game caused by a 92 rtp, you the player felt lucky and excited to get all these bonuses but they had reduced their potential significantly compared to even the 94.5% versions.

In the end it was a pointless pursuit, yes I could have taken the £22 but then it's hard to find any games on that site which are even 94%, so it's stop playing or odds on lose the lot shortly.

I suppose a similar difference could exist between the 94.5 bass games and the highest versions (96%?), in that the 94.5 might bonus more frequently and therefore there is a chance of getting a reasonable gain with a flurry of bonuses, but if you then play on it will take you back below where you started. Whereas if you can bonus the 96% versions, on average the bonus feature will pay more, and then take the balance over to another 96% game and hopefully build a balance worth withdrawing.

 

[TheAddict]

@mack341

Gotta say, mate. You must have been desperate for a punt!
£7.50 max on 10p spins at 94% if you're sweating and shaking to the point you can't type your login correctly, but no, not 92%, ya blooming nutter!

Still, I think the theory sounds plausible. 96% base game can do 60+ spins without a win, so Lord knows what the 92% base game might be able to achieve in the base, and how noticeable that might quickly become if with very few interruptions.

More features on average would ceartinly help mask the base game horror, acting as a distraction from the otherwise likely to quickly become evident dead base game they're spinning through.
Inevitability leaving the player pissed off over the crappy bonus result once it plays out, rather than taking a moment to consider what it cost to get there, thus returning back to the grind with gritted teeth and wanting another crack, but with their cheeks now lubed and spread as far apart as possible, getting ravaged down below in ways simply inconceivable to the 96%'ers.

Sorry to hear you lost the £22 though.

 

[mack341]

@mack341

Gotta say, mate. You must have been desperate for a punt!
£7.50 max on 10p spins at 94% if you're sweating and shaking to the point you can't type your login correctly, but no, not 92%, ya blooming nutter!

Still, I think the theory sounds plausible. 96% base game can do 60+ spins without a win, so Lord knows what the 92% base game might be able to achieve in the base, and how noticeable that might quickly become if with very few interruptions.

More features on average would ceartinly help mask the base game horror, acting as a distraction from the otherwise likely to quickly become evident dead base game they're spinning through.
Inevitability leaving the player pissed off over the crappy bonus result once it plays out, rather than taking a moment to consider what it cost to get there, thus returning back to the grind with gritted teeth and wanting another crack, but with their cheeks now lubed and spread as far apart as possible, getting ravaged down below in ways simply inconceivable to the 96%'ers.

Sorry to hear you lost the £22 though.

I know, it's the only time I've actively decided to play a 92% slot with deposited money, I think I convinced myself I was doing a sort of Chopley experiment! And to experience for myself just how bad these games could be...and then to confuse me it bonuses about every 20 spins, but by about the 10th one I'm fully fckd off, swearing at it 'just get me to the 2x spins ffs!!'

Never again...I think even their dead or alive is 92rtp , bonanza is 94.5 - how f***ing generous! I have located a few games on there that are still 96% but they play suspiciously bad compared to my previous experience of them.

 

[PeenyBunslinger]

Wouldn't it make more sense to keep the frequency of hits more or less the same between RTPs and just reduce how much they payout on average instead of kneecapping the base game and replacing those hits with worthless bonuses?

Presumably they don't want people noticing a difference between RTPs, so I would've assumed consistency is important.

 

[mack341]

Wouldn't it make more sense to keep the frequency of hits more or less the same between RTPs and just reduce how much they payout on average instead of kneecapping the base game and replacing those hits with worthless bonuses?

Presumably they don't want people noticing a difference between RTPs, so I would've assumed consistency is important.

I've played the 94.5 versions quite a bit, and though they can give you a flurry of bonuses in a short space, say 6 in a hundred spins, I've never experienced 15 in an hour.

Yes I suppose they could keep the same hit rate in the base game (not particularly good on any bass game) but make them smaller wins, but then it costs more to get each bonus, whereas on my experience - by no means qualifying as a sample but then who would obtain a decent size on 92% games - they've definitely kneecapped the bonus payouts, but retained or increased frequency, and probably cut some fish block wins in the base game.

So the excitement level was there because of the number of bonuses made it feel like things were happening, but when you look at the overall movement in the balance, for such a number of bonuses, it was worse.

The casino wants to maintain as much as possible the feeling of excitement from a game across different rtp versions, as that is what will keep people playing, and in the bass games the excitement is seeing those scatters land, the base game has never been that exciting in itself.

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

Enhanced on or off??

 

[2Slots]

I’ve actually played quite a lot of big bass stuff over the last couple of months. I’ve had some nice wins too. I only play with the enhanced bonus chance on (which is a little vague in its description tbf) stating a higher chance? Yes but how much higher!! With the older prags it use to state double chance but for just 25% stake increase. Now it’s 50% or in some case double the stake amount but you don’t know what ur getting for it. IMO it should be stated exactly what it is ur getting for ur extra money.

I mentioned this elsewhere I think but last year I tested big bass games on demo quite a bit with the turbo spin doing 100 spins a time.

I'd just seen the enhanced options at the time and wasn't willing to blindly spend money on them even if I only play min stakes. Because the turbo spin is so fast I got through a lot of spins in no time every time i tried.

By the end I estimated the original and splash would average 1/100 bonus frequency i.e. every 100 spins would frequently get at least one bonus or it could drop a few bonuses and then go dead but the average seemed to be 1/100. The longest Splash went one time without a bonus was 8 tries or 800 spins before I stopped.

I did the same with the enhanced ones (1000 and horse racing i think) trying with enhanced on and off. It seemed like with the enhanced off the bonus frequency was around 1/200 and with it on it was 1/100 so I just assumed that those ones are designed cleverly/slyly by doubling the bonus frequency and then making you pay extra to get 1/100.

I could be wrong but I did give them a hell of a lot of spins, didn't keep stats but I was keeping tabs on the bonus hits over each 'session'.

I won't play enhanced slots at all now, as you said they never state what you get. They should have to state what the bonus frequency is when on and off to make it clear.

 

[Lemon]

Personally, I'd say the RTP% is adjusted by changing the hit rate of the bonus. That's where all the money is.

The base game return on this infestation of Big Bass Bullshit slots is pretty low isn't it? Even lower than the original Fishing Frenzy. I'd argue that on games like Amazon it's a lot lower than that. The point being there's not much to play with and any changes might be noticed quite quickly.

On a game like Splash, let's say the base game returns 36% and the bonus has a hit rate of 1 in 100, for an average bonus return of 60x. There's your 96% RTP. To reduce that by 2% you only need to push the bonus hit rate out to 1 in 103.45 and that isn't going to be noticed until you've got huge sample size. In the short term you won't notice it at all, mid-term you might just think you've been unlucky. Maybe if you play 100k spins on two different maths versions and log the bonus occurrences you might then start to see a distinct difference but who the fuck wants to play 200k spins manually at their own expense just to prove some sort of point?

These games have multiple reelsets for the base game and bonus and each one of those has millions of spin combinations - even a reelset with just 25 positions on each reel has nearly 10 million combinations. You're wasting your time and money thinking you can tell two version of the maths apart from normal casual play. You need to know that you're looking in the right place to start with. One of the main challenges with reducing the RTP% on a slot is to disguise it as much as possible so the average punter playing an average number of spins over an average session won't notice the difference.

 

[gonzo fonso]

for me i have played a few games on 94% rtp that were on 96% rtp and its massive,not a great experience at all,oh well it will mean a lot less playing for me over a few sites

 

[mack341]

Enhanced on or off??

Off, and that's how I normally play it.

Whenever I have done the extra 50% stake for increased chance of a bonus, it never seems to make much of a difference.

What I do like doing instead is upping the stake after a long time with no bonus, I don't get carried away but it has paid off. I think the highest stake I've played the bass games at is 60p, I would never start the game at that level though, it could get behind by £100+ without much problem.

 

[mack341]

Out of curiosity I just tried to view my games history to see if I could find out which Bass it was, and whether I can see the bonuses in the list of spins, however it says the function is down for "technical reasons" fecking useless these sites.

I don't play there that often so it should be possible to track it back - if the actual function is fixed anytime soon - I expect the anticipation amongst forum readers is already building for the results and reveal of which 92% Bass game it was.

 

[satchnz]

Is it a fact Slots Temple doesn't do free spins? I remember someone posted a while back about cashing out on (I think 50) free spins from ST. He might've won them in a tournament or through a provider promotion, but I was left with the impression he'd gotten them from ST. Maybe they do birthday free spins?

They’ve given me 50 free spins a couple of times from £50 deposits. Not really sure what triggered them though.

 

[steakfortea]

Yep the whole of Betfred games use to max rtp on every game now there all at 94% or lower

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Personally, I'd say the RTP% is adjusted by changing the hit rate of the bonus. That's where all the money is.

The base game return on this infestation of Big Bass Bullshit slots is pretty low isn't it? Even lower than the original Fishing Frenzy. I'd argue that on games like Amazon it's a lot lower than that. The point being there's not much to play with and any changes might be noticed quite quickly.

On a game like Splash, let's say the base game returns 36% and the bonus has a hit rate of 1 in 100, for an average bonus return of 60x. There's your 96% RTP. To reduce that by 2% you only need to push the bonus hit rate out to 1 in 103.45 and that isn't going to be noticed until you've got huge sample size. In the short term you won't notice it at all, mid-term you might just think you've been unlucky. Maybe if you play 100k spins on two different maths versions and log the bonus occurrences you might then start to see a distinct difference but who the fuck wants to play 200k spins manually at their own expense just to prove some sort of point?

These games have multiple reelsets for the base game and bonus and each one of those has millions of spin combinations - even a reelset with just 25 positions on each reel has nearly 10 million combinations. You're wasting your time and money thinking you can tell two version of the maths apart from normal casual play. You need to know that you're looking in the right place to start with. One of the main challenges with reducing the RTP% on a slot is to disguise it as much as possible so the average punter playing an average number of spins over an average session won't notice the difference.

Yeah but what you would be able to tell after 200K spins is that the lower maths model version will have taken, on average, over 50% more money off you. (Assuming a drop from 96% to 94%, once you get down to 92% and suchlike, the numbers are even grimmer.)

I agree that over the 'average session' the player won't notice a difference, but ultimately every individual session on a game can be viewed as one long single extended session, and that's where those differences in RTP will make themselves felt as a function of mathematical certainty.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

20p a go, 200K spins at 96%, you're going to lose £1,600.

Drop that to 94% and you're losing £2,400.

92% - That'll be £3,200 please.

Absolutely nothing matters to you more as the player than RTP.

This is not theoretical either, it took me nearly 600,000 spins to pull a jackpot ball out of the bag on Dice Fusion at 3Dice.

 

[Lemon]

Yeah but what you would be able to tell after 200K spins is that the lower maths model version will have taken, on average, over 50% more money off you. (Assuming a drop from 96% to 94%, once you get down to 92% and suchlike, the numbers are even grimmer.)

I agree that over the 'average session' the player won't notice a difference, but ultimately every individual session on a game can be viewed as one long single extended session, and that's where those differences in RTP will make themselves felt as a function of mathematical certainty.

 

[mack341]

20p a go, 200K spins at 96%, you're going to lose £1,600.

Drop that to 94% and you're losing £2,400.

92% - That'll be £3,200 please.

Absolutely nothing matters to you more as the player than RTP.

This is not theoretical either, it took me nearly 600,000 spins to pull a jackpot ball out of the bag on Dice Fusion at 3Dice.

View attachment 218868
View attachment 218869
View attachment 218870

On the basis of doing 10 spins in a minute (rhino & probably Bonanza) 200,000 spins equates to 333 hrs according to my maths, almost 14 days solid playing, I think that would make losing £1600 more than a fair expectation if I think back to my slot sessions. Get the wrong side of Bonanza and it can take that amount a lot quicker.

Just goes to show this entertainment product is one of the most expensive going, I'd be all for govt casinos that offer games at 98 rtp and all profits go to hmrc, better than 92% games and profits go to the owners of William hill etc...

Are there any rules regarding scratch cards, a minimum payback or rtp, or can Camelot etc just sell whatever they want via newsagents and kiosks?

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Are there any rules regarding scratch cards, a minimum payback or rtp, or can Camelot etc just sell whatever they want via newsagents and kiosks?

They can basically do whatever they want, as long as they tell you what the RTP and odds are.

Direct timestamped link to the relevant section.

 

[catsdeadnow]

I think many people (myself included) sometimes forget we're supposed to be losing when we sit down to spin.

It doesn't matter if you play at 96% or 94% or 92% it's still a losing proposition. That being said if you're a £1 better losing 4p a spin is a significantly better option to losing 6 or even 8p.

You do a small amount of spins and get wrecked and then it's like well you didn't do enough spins to even out variance. Then you do a larger number of spins and see you're still down at which point it's like well that makes sense because if the game is lining up to RTP you should expect to be down.

You either hit a lucky early bonus and never touch the game again or you're always going to end up losing. Hell even a 20kx max win on your first spin if you play long enough you'll give it all back and more.

From the screenshots you posted a while back on the big bass games you had some sort of generational run, made all the more impressive that it was on lower RTP games. Not the normal experience for most people though. When I hammered away on the games, admittedly the early few versions, my experience was the base game struggled to keep the balance up and without a bonus you were cooked. Then too frequently the bonus would be a 15-20x scripted min win. These were all played on max rtp on various sites a number of years ago. I also won 6 free spins on a 92% version last night and got 2 bonuses in those spins, a 92x and a 43x. So yeah any RTP version can pay in a small sample if you get lucky with the RNG.

9⁹⁹99

 

[avfcalex23]

Prove to me what?? I don’t get what it is ur trying to prove to me?? That the lower rtp math models at other casinos play better then the higher ones. Or that slots temple is rigged???

I’ve actually played quite a lot of big bass stuff over the last couple of months. I’ve had some nice wins too. I only play with the enhanced bonus chance on (which is a little vague in its description tbf) stating a higher chance? Yes but how much higher!! With the older prags it use to state double chance but for just 25% stake increase. Now it’s 50% or in some case double the stake amount but you don’t know what ur getting for it. IMO it should be stated exactly what it is ur getting for ur extra money.

I also got deeply involved in the new races reel repeat the other day. Everything turned on for £1.50 a pop but just 60p base stake. I mean wtf? It’s just so brutal playing it in that way. I was £300 deep in 25 mins. You Litterally need a bonus every 30 odd spins to have a chance of getting a game out if it. I seemingly got rather unlucky with the repeats as well as about my first 10 bonuses didn’t repeat once!!

I got a slightly improved game the next time I tried it but it’s just to brutal. With the usual shite base game if you can’t hit bonuses ur in a world of trouble within minutes!!

I often play them on 20p base 30p enhanced and use them to do bonus hunts on as they can bonus fairly quickly tbf. However without that on I’ve gone a rediculous amount of spins for them to land and with the dreadful base game and mostly shite features when they do land I can’t see how people play them normally without the enhanced. Endless dead spins with nothing happening most of the time.

With regards to free spins and tournaments etc etc I’m just not really that interested. Don’t get me wrong I’ll take all the freebies I’m offered but I’ve no interest in tournaments etc.

I use certain casinos for certain games but will never entertain playing a 94% slot when I can play it at 96% somewhere else. To me that is slotting suicide and makes no sense what so ever. That’s not to say of course u can’t still get lucky on the lower ones but again, long term the difference is enormous in game time.

In terms of better promos etc etc. Paddy Power look after me. But then that’s because I’ve played a LOT of bonanza there and I mean a lot. I get £25 in bonus funds with no wagering every monday and they’ll drop me £40-£60 as a games bonus now and again with no wagering. Plus all sorts of freebies and money back on the betting side of it. Again I won’t touch their mid level RTP stuff at all. Annoyingly they reduced all play n go and prags a while back and as a result have never had a single penny off me on those since.

I’d rather slots temple ditched all tournaments completely and what little free spins they give out and chucked a bonus with wagering to the regular players but it’s unlikely to happen. And as much as I champion the fact they’re the only uk casino with max across the board they’ve pissed me off by slapping a £500 monthly limit on me just recently.

I just think it’s hard enough to get a game as it is these days and I want to give myself the best chance of achieving that. So it’s max only for me. The minute that goes I won’t be playing.

I’ve never had more than fiver every Monday from Paddy. Similarly to you, with them dropping you cash… I’ve logged onto casumo a fair few times and had £10 free cash bonuses and to my amazement they gave me £50 cash ready to withdraw in January. They’re random, and I haven’t had Many of them but nice when you get them.

ST have also slapped a £500 deposit limit on me too, it seem they’ve done that with a lot of players on here.

In terms of proving to you anything, I’m tired and I’ll have to revisit this at a later date because it’s all getting a bit exhausting now. Wish I’d never started the thread

Edit: oh and as for race reel repeat - I’ve had zero luck on that too which is rare for a big bass slot especially in the first few days / weeks they have paid me handsomely. It’s a brutal new addition and I don’t actually find the extra chance bonus hunt makes too much of a difference. Reel repeat is the same.

 

[TheAddict]

Ain't logged into Playgrand in a while, but did so today. Had a popup upon login mentioning "game rules may have changed" and suggesting to check the rules before each session to find out exactly what suprise is in store for ya on each game.
I assume it's the same across all White Hat gaming, no doubt they've probably done a lot more providers too. I only checked two games; DOA is now further down on the RTP scale, dropping again from 94% to 92% and BOD is now down again, from 94% to 91.5% . Nasty.