Betting Partners forcing affiliates into Bitcoin

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
So it looks like it's either Bitcoins or it's nothing. :rolleyes:

Betting Partners are being dropped from Casinomeister by the end of the month.
 

shewoff

Senior Member
webby
mm1
Joined
May 13, 2015
Location
northeast
Not being an affiliate I would feel like they are taking my money out of my hand's and into someone whom I never met?I'm having a heck of a problem with bitcoin being my only method to be paid winning's from accredited site's?
I swear it seem's like they have no idea ,How to pay me in bitcoin's? I give them generated code and they give me denial's stating that the code is not a crypto-address?
I have tried 3 times now and wasted 144 hour's just to find out that they don't seem to understand the bitcoin code?I have sent copies of chat from my Circle CS and in it they state that the code's are valid and that there is no reason for denial? This is not easy as i can not let the cat out of the bag as to where the fund's are coming from?

And now a long week-end and nothing, back into the pending business day's for review? They have reviewed it 2 prior time's and said pay it and then nope it's not bitcoin code?

I will be honest I do not envy you guy's with 10's of thousand's to be paid?Good Luck! :thumbsup: Peace Out! Out Of The Mist! shewoff
 

Attachments

  • avatar115_1.jpg
    avatar115_1.jpg
    1.2 KB · Views: 146

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Not being an affiliate I would feel like they are taking my money out of my hand's and into someone whom I never met?I'm having a heck of a problem with bitcoin being my only method to be paid winning's from accredited site's?
I swear it seem's like they have no idea ,How to pay me in bitcoin's? I give them generated code and they give me denial's stating that the code is not a crypto-address?
I have tried 3 times now and wasted 144 hour's just to find out that they don't seem to understand the bitcoin code?I have sent copies of chat from my Circle CS and in it they state that the code's are valid and that there is no reason for denial? This is not easy as i can not let the cat out of the bag as to where the fund's are coming from?

And now a long week-end and nothing, back into the pending business day's for review? They have reviewed it 2 prior time's and said pay it and then nope it's not bitcoin code?

I will be honest I do not envy you guy's with 10's of thousand's to be paid?Good Luck! :thumbsup: Peace Out! Out Of The Mist! shewoff

What is the barrier to using Bitcoin direct, rather than going through this Circle account? One does not NEED a third party Bitcoin wallet, one can create one's own locally, although for security reasons it is suggested that it's kept on a Flash drive (and backed up), rather than left lying around on the hard drive of a PC connected to the internet.
 

secret2

irishbrit62
Joined
Nov 30, 2008
Location
New York, United States
What is the barrier to using Bitcoin direct, rather than going through this Circle account? One does not NEED a third party Bitcoin wallet, one can create one's own locally, although for security reasons it is suggested that it's kept on a Flash drive (and backed up), rather than left lying around on the hard drive of a PC connected to the internet.

This is what I was wondering.

Why can't I just use Bitcoin? Why do I need another, such as Coinbase?
 

shewoff

Senior Member
webby
mm1
Joined
May 13, 2015
Location
northeast
Good point vinyl.

But it is my understanding that you must have a bitcoin wallet to do business?Such as Circle/Core/Blither/Blockchain. I'am new to this like a new born babe.

But it is clear to me a laymen that I need a wallet to do business with them? If there is a way to create a wallet that will generate bitcoin code then more power to you. I'am not able to do this as it would appear to be a techy thing and I do not have the know how?

The wallet's are free and you only get hit for fee's if you use a CC and the cost of switching bitcoin's to US or Euro? Who get's that is a mystery?

But I do agree why do I have to use bitcoin? Well because being a US player my option's are sh-t as to what I can use to move my winning's to my hand's.This is to a degree my own fault because I choose to make a few buck's in a air of illegal gambling site's and jumping thru hoop's to get paid?

The real question is it worth it? I at this time am not sure?
I'm owed $2400.00 by a accredited casino that has lost the only real payout option I had (cardpay) and they are hell bent to try to drive me to play it all back. But they are very wrong I will wait until they realize that the code's are valid and they pay me. Period!

But truly if you have a way to use a wallet that is created by you and make's the payment's to you via bitcoin's I would very much like to talk about it.PM me if you have a easy way to get it done please?

Thank's again guy's I have had a hell of a week and it's not over yet? But it will be soon?Peace Out! Out Of The Mist! shewoff

P.S I believe that bitcoin is a system and the wallet's are the way to gain access? I may be wrong thou?
 

Attachments

  • avatar115_1.jpg
    avatar115_1.jpg
    1.2 KB · Views: 136
Last edited:

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Good point vinyl.

But it is my understanding that you must have a bitcoin wallet to do business?Such as Circle/Core/Blither/Blockchain. I'am new to this like a new born babe.

But it is clear to me a laymen that I need a wallet to do business with them? If there is a way to create a wallet that will generate bitcoin code then more power to you. I'am not able to do this as it would appear to be a techy thing and I do not have the know how?

The wallet's are free and you only get hit for fee's if you use a CC and the cost of switching bitcoin's to US or Euro? Who get's that is a mystery?

But I do agree why do I have to use bitcoin? Well because being a US player my option's are sh-t as to what I can use to move my winning's to my hand's.This is to a degree my own fault because I choose to make a few buck's in a air of illegal gambling site's and jumping thru hoop's to get paid?

The real question is it worth it? I at this time am not sure?
I'm owed $2400.00 by a accredited casino that has lost the only real payout option I had (cardpay) and they are hell bent to try to drive me to play it all back. But they are very wrong I will wait until they realize that the code's are valid and they pay me. Period!

But truly if you have a way to use a wallet that is created by you and make's the payment's to you via bitcoin's I would very much like to talk about it.PM me if you have a easy way to get it done please?

Thank's again guy's I have had a hell of a week and it's not over yet? But it will be soon?Peace Out! Out Of The Mist! shewoff

P.S I believe that bitcoin is a system and the wallet's are the way to gain access? I may be wrong thou?

I had a look at Bitcoin mining a while back, and if you download and install mining software, it also has a method for creating your own local Bitcoin wallet to hold any Bitcoin you happen to mine. It's an alternative to using a free third party wallet. However, having your own Bitcoin wallet doesn't help with the problem of exchanging Bitcoin to and from Dollars, for this you still need an exchange, which is probably what the third party wallets make easier by integrating exchange with their wallet.

A third party wallet isn't a problem in itself, it becomes a problem where, like Circle, you are getting all these problems that you should not be getting with the Bitcoin codes. Also, when you have your own wallet, you have no third party policing what you use Bitcoin for, which could possibly be the root of the problems with Circle. Third parties also make the process more vulnerable to errors because it creates a longer chain of transactions when moving deposits and withdrawals between player and casino, or affiliate program to affiliate.
 

Elgoog

Experienced Member
webmeister
Joined
May 13, 2006
Location
Europe
i have Bitcoin Core (QT) on my own computer, created an adress and is accepted by BP without any problem, which is logical, a bitcoin adress is a bitcoin adress, wherever it is generated.
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
BettingPartner casinos have been removed from the Accredited section at Casinomeister. It's a real shame that this company chooses dictatorship over partnership. :rolleyes:

Bodog has been accredited here since June 2004 - that's a 12 year relationship that apparently didn't matter to them. I on the other hand have taken flack and have publicly supported them by putting my reputation on the line by ensuring that their casino operations meet our accredited standards. I see that this had little meaning to them. Oh well, happy trails.
 

MichaelBluejay

Full Member
webmeister
Joined
Jun 16, 2004
Location
In Austin, Texas, man
I guess I'm an outlier on this one, as I see the requirement as reasonable and not so onerous. It's tough for some operators, especially the larger ones, to pay U.S. affiliates, because banks don't want to touch the money, even though there's nothing against the law about paying for advertising.

To make the change, I simply opened a wallet with a Bitcoin wallet service, Bovada pays me in Bitcoin, and the wallet service *automatically* converts the Bitcoins to U.S. dollars. So I never actually hold Bitcoins, and never have to deal with them at all. I can then transfer the dollars to my bank whenever I want. It's really painless. It never occurred to me to be up in arms about the change.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
I guess I'm an outlier on this one, as I see the requirement as reasonable and not so onerous. It's tough for some operators, especially the larger ones, to pay U.S. affiliates, because banks don't want to touch the money, even though there's nothing against the law about paying for advertising.

To make the change, I simply opened a wallet with a Bitcoin wallet service, Bovada pays me in Bitcoin, and the wallet service *automatically* converts the Bitcoins to U.S. dollars. So I never actually hold Bitcoins, and never have to deal with them at all. I can then transfer the dollars to my bank whenever I want. It's really painless. It never occurred to me to be up in arms about the change.

It's the fact that it's an ultimatum, not a dialogue, that has people up in arms. They also seem to have given little notice of this, and also seem to be applying it world wide, to affiliates who have no problems with the money going to their banks, and who might have problems with the tax authorities when their affiliate income "suddenly stops" because it's being received in Bitcoin and not necessarily being converted to fiat currency.

It may well be better for US affiliates who are having trouble with getting paid in fiat currency, but it would be better to offer it as an option rather than force it upon affiliates. They could even have Bitcoin as their "preferred method", and promote it to affiliates who contact them because they are having trouble with receiving their payments the usual way.

Many affiliates will have no experience of Bitcoin, and to them much of the news coverage has been negative, such as "Silk Road" and the "Dark web/criminal activity" angles.

We also have a thread here where US players are trying to use Bitcoin, but are running into all sorts of problems such as the casinos saying their Bitcoin code is invalid, but their Bitcoin wallet saying there is nothing wrong with it. They are also having problems with their chosen wallet, mostly about KYC, which shouldn't be an issue with Bitcoin proper.

As Bitcoin operates "outside the system", there is little or no redress if things go wrong.

This program could have handled it better, and could have provided detailed advice about Bitcoin, how it works, and how affiliates can prepare for it's use and convert their payments to fiat currency in a way that their banks will not make a fuss.
 

MichaelBluejay

Full Member
webmeister
Joined
Jun 16, 2004
Location
In Austin, Texas, man
I'm not convinced. Bitcoin is just a currency, just dollars, Euros, or pounds. Betting Partners could have told me that going forward they're going to pay me in Euros, pounds, or yen instead of dollars, and it would have been the same thing. Like I said, my wallet provider (essentially a bank) converts the Bitcoin that BP pays me into dollars automatically. I never hold Bitcoin, I never have to deal with Bitcoin.

As for taxes, that argument just seems bizarre. If you're not hiding income, then you simply account for your income, no matter where it's held. That's pretty simple.

All in all, this really seems like a non-issue to me.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
I'm not convinced. Bitcoin is just a currency, just dollars, Euros, or pounds. Betting Partners could have told me that going forward they're going to pay me in Euros, pounds, or yen instead of dollars, and it would have been the same thing. Like I said, my wallet provider (essentially a bank) converts the Bitcoin that BP pays me into dollars automatically. I never hold Bitcoin, I never have to deal with Bitcoin.

As for taxes, that argument just seems bizarre. If you're not hiding income, then you simply account for your income, no matter where it's held. That's pretty simple.

All in all, this really seems like a non-issue to me.

You seem very comfortable with Bitcoin, and you have also found a wallet solution that makes the conversion into Dollars seamless. However, if I was told I would have all my casino withdrawals paid in Euro, it would be an issue for me because I would be getting stung by conversion fees, rather than because the Euro was any less a currency than the Pound.

Other affiliates may never have touched Bitcoin, and with such short notice and no tuition being offered, just a "take it or leave it" approach, the fear of the unknown is going to be a big factor. The worry may well be that their money will be trapped in a currency that is useless for paying the bills in much of the real world, such as rent, utilities, etc.

In fact, one doesn't even need an external wallet, one can be set up on a flash drive, and with proper backup will be pretty secure.

The tax issue is about valuation, rather than declaring income. If it's held as Bitcoin, it's not something many tax offices are familiar with, and the problem may well be in declaring the equivalent value in the home currency. With currencies like Dollars and Euro, it's easier because the tax office can easily confirm the declared figures by looking at the currency exchanges.

What these affiliates really need is proper advice, otherwise they will have to walk away from the income they are getting from players they have already sent, even if they have decided to drop the program. US players may need to learn Bitcoin too, but the fact that many of the best casinos are reluctant to offer it even though there has been a major loss of options for withdrawals does little to enhance it's credibility as an alternative.
 

kahntrutahn

Dormant account
Joined
May 10, 2016
Location
Abroad
What these affiliates really need is proper advice, otherwise they will have to walk away from the income they are getting from players they have already sent, even if they have decided to drop the program. US players may need to learn Bitcoin too, but the fact that many of the best casinos are reluctant to offer it even though there has been a major loss of options for withdrawals does little to enhance it's credibility as an alternative.

Educating US players about bitcoin is a time sink, I agree. But a necessary evil in some markets, like mine, the offshore US-friendly poker market. We've created some walk-throughs for our clients and that has been helpful. Step by step all the way... so that it's virtually impossible to fail at setting up. It was time consuming, but worth it.

As for the best casinos not offering it, I can't speak for what you consider to be the best casinos. Online casino isn't our market. I can tell you that in our US poker market, all but one of the operators we work with have embraced bitcoin for deposits and withdrawals. And many of them are even beginning to actively push affiliates and players into btc. It's just so much cheaper for them, both in up front processing costs and in the fact that there is zero chance of chargebacks.
 
Top