Baptism by Fire - success Bet-at.eu - giving it a try

[Igor82]

OK...so I got a nice $25 welcome bonus no deposit (thanks Igor)

I made the WR and have $50 to withdraw.....but cannot withdraw until I register a deposit method....which means I need to make a deposit....which means, if I do, then withdraw, I won't be able to claim the first deposit bonus because the next one would be my second....

Help!

LOL nice problem to have.

Option 1)

Make the deposit you would have wanted to make anyway, if you are interested in depositing.

make your withdrawal to that deposit method. It will invalidate the bonus, however we will re-instate the bonus.

Option 2)

Send in your account details and we can manually add the payment method (you will need to verify it). We will then manually push the withdrawal out without you triggering a bonus. At this point your next deposit will trigger the FDB naturally.

Igor

 

[Nifty29]

LOL nice problem to have.

Option 1)

Make the deposit you would have wanted to make anyway, if you are interested in depositing.

make your withdrawal to that deposit method. It will invalidate the bonus, however we will re-instate the bonus.

Option 2)

Send in your account details and we can manually add the payment method (you will need to verify it). We will then manually push the withdrawal out without you triggering a bonus. At this point your next deposit will trigger the FDB naturally.

Igor

Thanks for the quick response Igor.

I'll take option 1. I was certainly going to deposit anyway, it was just that I saw the $25 bonus there that I wasn't expecting...and wasn't expecting to win from it LOL.

Will do it now.

Update - OK did option 1 and withdrew.

Should I wait for it to be processed before depositing again, and then contact support to add it manually?

 

[Igor82]

Thanks for the quick response Igor.

I'll take option 1. I was certainly going to deposit anyway, it was just that I saw the $25 bonus there that I wasn't expecting...and wasn't expecting to win from it LOL.

Will do it now.

Update - OK did option 1 and withdrew.

Should I wait for it to be processed before depositing again, and then contact support to add it manually?

Support will add it now - i informed them myself.

as you have a pending wd in process (docs are ok, right?) you can happily start spinning as soon as you see the bonus drop.

It will be titled EXPERIENCE REWARD but please note that it adopts the t&c's of the FDB you had initially chosen.

Ig

 

[Igor82]

Support will add it now - i informed them myself.

as you have a pending wd in process (docs are ok, right?) you can happily start spinning as soon as you see the bonus drop.

It will be titled EXPERIENCE REWARD but please note that it adopts the t&c's of the FDB you had initially chosen.

Ig

Nifty - you requested your deposited and full amount back(deposited and cleared). Meaning if I clear the full, the initial bonus awarded on your 25 deposit would have been invalidated anyway.

If you want to benefit from the match you need to leave the deposited balance in the account. Maybe its better if you come on chat.

igor

 

[AC7X]

I know I have missed something here and will feel silly once I am told but what's the reasoning with a 20 euro limit from credit and debit cards on deposits? How many times per day can you deposit?

I think the problem here is the colour choice on that page. At least on my laptop display it didn't actually look like the £20 was an editable text box, instead it looked as though that was just an amount already displayed on the page. Might be worth changing the colours so that the white text box stands out more strongly against the background.

 

[mn001]

Tried them with a €100 deposit and took the €100 bonus they offer.

It crashed just one time with an error code. Speed was somewhere between good and fast. Sent in my docs before this and was verified (I think) within a few hours.

Had a €5 free bonus aswell, but with a maximum cashout of €40 and that's just stupid IMHO. But I could decline it so no problems.

Overall I say it looks like a VERY good casino. I'm pretty sure I will play again soon.

Lost my deposit within minutes, but its gambling. Better luck next time...

 

[Igor82]

Had a €5 free bonus aswell, but with a maximum cashout of €40 and that's just stupid IMHO. But I could decline it so no problems.

I'm really happy to hear the positive comments, but why do you think max cashout on NDB is stupid?

I'm not challenging - I'm just curious so i can adapt if needed

 

[mn001]

I'm really happy to hear the positive comments, but why do you think max cashout on NDB is stupid?

I'm not challenging - I'm just curious so i can adapt if needed

Cap is ok for me, but not €40. If I win as a player I want to be happy and actually win something. I will never be happy with a €40 win as most of the times I will finish way over that amount. If it was €250 it would be OK and at €500 I would always be happy. Just what I think. And here it's no problem as I could just simply click deny on the bonus and no problems

 

[Igor82]

Cap is ok for me, but not €40. If I win as a player I want to be happy and actually win something. I will never be happy with a €40 win as most of the times I will finish way over that amount. If it was €250 it would be OK and at €500 I would always be happy. Just what I think. And here it's no problem as I could just simply click deny on the bonus and no problems

Cool. I Appreciate that. you'll get to see we're more up your alley than originally appears

It's all about segmentation for us, so longer the relationship more liberal the conditions. For now hit that deny button when you feel we're too scroogy hehe

 

[dionysus]

I'm fine with a $40 win. If it can then be re-played back into the casino with no WR and not have to WD it and deposit it back, is fine by me. If it caps at 40 and has to be withdrawn, it's a headache - if it can be played for further win, that's awesome. End of day though, free is free, and I'm not gonna turn my nose up at it

 

[incrediblestuff]

I only find NDB's with a max cashout are justified for first time players, i.e players that haven't deposited yet.
Otherwise it's a bit insulting: naturally i am speaking generally,about players like myself, that are loyal depositors at their favoured Casinos.

But NDB as welcome offer etc, are a perfect way to entice players to try out the various aspects of a possible new favourite

But if a player like mn001 makes the leap and deposits, offering him a fiver with a max cashout is less cool for various reasons:

The most valid one is, what if the player hits it big?
Do you think he will be happy about it, and come back to deposit some more, or, rather remember the disappointment of having the max cashout and decide to play elsewhere?

Also, imagine the player hits 120 (not big but well above the max) after w/r and is forced to play back some, or forfeit the 80+.
If he plays it back and hits even bigger=more disappointing.
If he forfeits it's less of a disappointment, but would you yourself re-deposit the cashed out amount or rather try your luck elsewhere?

I think most players would do the latter.

I can not see from what perspective a NDB with restrictions like this would be any good for either the player or the Casino.
Even if the 5 is/was w/r free it would.not be good enough.
I.m.o the implementation of a max cashout is only somewhat sensible for a Casino to protect themselves from bonus hunters/abusers and "AP's" on a welcome NDB, or on an insane match-up, but in that case it should be a juicy amount, enough to satisfy most punters, so something like 10x deposit.

That's my opinion, and i am providing you with it since you asked for feedback, and i would like to add that i only replied because i am interested in Bet-at-EU

I already expressed this, i think it is a very promising Casino, and so far so good!
Was going to make my first deposit two weeks back, right after i busted my budget in my favoured Casino(s).
I usually have a bit of extra cash lying around which then turns into a paysafe deposit, but i bought a tenner, and saw you only had 20 and upwards, so decided against it

I'll be joining the real-players soon though, i am keen to try it out and get that horrid lifetime RTP (from the NDB) out of sight!

Keep up the good work and you'll be accredited in no time.

 

[Igor82]

I only find NDB's with a max cashout are justified for first time players, i.e players that haven't deposited yet.
Otherwise it's a bit insulting: naturally i am speaking generally,about players like myself, that are loyal depositors at their favoured Casinos.

But NDB as welcome offer etc, are a perfect way to entice players to try out the various aspects of a possible new favourite

But if a player like mn001 makes the leap and deposits, offering him a fiver with a max cashout is less cool for various reasons:

The most valid one is, what if the player hits it big?
Do you think he will be happy about it, and come back to deposit some more, or, rather remember the disappointment of having the max cashout and decide to play elsewhere?

Also, imagine the player hits 120 (not big but well above the max) after w/r and is forced to play back some, or forfeit the 80+.
If he plays it back and hits even bigger=more disappointing.
If he forfeits it's less of a disappointment, but would you yourself re-deposit the cashed out amount or rather try your luck elsewhere?

I think most players would do the latter.

I can not see from what perspective a NDB with restrictions like this would be any good for either the player or the Casino.
Even if the 5 is/was w/r free it would.not be good enough.
I.m.o the implementation of a max cashout is only somewhat sensible for a Casino to protect themselves from bonus hunters/abusers and "AP's" on a welcome NDB, or on an insane match-up, but in that case it should be a juicy amount, enough to satisfy most punters, so something like 10x deposit.

That's my opinion, and i am providing you with it since you asked for feedback, and i would like to add that i only replied because i am interested in Bet-at-EU

I already expressed this, i think it is a very promising Casino, and so far so good!
Was going to make my first deposit two weeks back, right after i busted my budget in my favoured Casino(s).
I usually have a bit of extra cash lying around which then turns into a paysafe deposit, but i bought a tenner, and saw you only had 20 and upwards, so decided against it

I'll be joining the real-players soon though, i am keen to try it out and get that horrid lifetime RTP (from the NDB) out of sight!

Keep up the good work and you'll be accredited in no time.

Hey, thank you first of all

Above is a lengthy one and it's based on an assumption that this is how a loyal player is treated in terms of NDB CRM which is a superficial view on the matter. Not surprising as our loyalty approach gets uncovered via loyalty itself

The types of bonuses we have are countless and they are all used for different things. Likewise, the type of players we have fall into different loyalty segments and they too get more liberal rewards.

Not to sound cynical but one deposit does not a loyal player make.

This particular bonus was a free-for-all fiver to try the rabcat game. Free-for-alls include RNF's multi accounted that havent been blocked yet, and pretty much everyone else that falls into free-for-alls.

As such they are limited to max cashout as it protects our exposure.

Likewise, real-money-active players get daily, few-per-week, weekly and monthly NDB reloads based on the combination of their lifetime value, previous time frame losses, overall volume contributed, risk rating, RTP drop (or rise) and whether their volume is incremental or going down. Those NDB's which are given widely and most importantly with far more sense and understanding have very little or no limitations.

All of these things need to be taken into account if one is to discuss a case of a free fiver with max cap.

I don't mean to come off defensive, but i did want to clarify that our loyalty structure is not as clear cut as the previous posts would make it appear

Our CRM has LAYERS

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

 

[incrediblestuff]

Just from the reading of mn001 post i assumed it was a personal freebie, this is how it seemed

And my point was not to diminish your loyalty scheme, i just talked about loyalty in the broad sense, and do agree with you that one deposit does not make a loyal customer (me like your yoda pun ^.^): i am just saying that the chance is much bigger, for a first time depositor to become a loyal customer when the freebies offered are without max cashout, or, like mn001 and dionysus have posted whilst i was typing my lengthy one, with the possibility to keep on playing, or with a "decent" cap.

I also think that loyalty needs to be personally tailored as much as possible, and i do like the sound of that in your sentence:

Likewise, real-money-active players get daily, few-per-week, weekly and monthly NDB reloads based on the combination of their lifetime value, previous time frame losses, overall volume contributed, risk rating, RTP drop (or rise) and whether their volume is incremental or going down. Those NDB's which are given widely and most importantly with far more sense and understanding have very little or no limitations.

And just to be clear, it wasn't a critique at a random fiver freebie, but more an elaborate explanation of what most players have against max cashouts on freebies, especially when they already deposited

Had i know this fiver was a all around free for all promo, i would have understood immediately there was a cap.

The arguments are still valid to your general question

but why do you think max cashout on NDB is stupid?

though.

So yes, if we are discussing a free fiver with max cap, with all the info, i can take that with me, but without all the info, i can only speak as i did

I am going to try out your loyalty scheme soon Igor, sounds good to me!

 

[dionysus]

I missed a free for all fiver? was it mailed out?

 

[dionysus]

just got the mail
70X?...holy crap thats high for five bucks. I appreciate the fin, but phew, well, that's HUGE

 

[Igor82]

just got the mail
70X?...holy crap thats high for five bucks. I appreciate the fin, but phew, well, that's HUGE

woah, overzealous marketing team. i'll have a word...

i love them tho - they do keep me guarded

 

[dionysus]

lol, safe to say I didnt make WR. But it was a few minutes play time i didnt have

 

[Igor82]

its been dropped to x30.

Customers that have taken it up at x70 will have it re-awarded.

Igor

 

[Igor82]

its been dropped to x30.

Customers that have taken it up at x70 will have it re-awarded.

Igor

Good to go - all that got the bonus at x70 (sorry, that was indeed steep) will get it again on next login now with x30.

Max WD is at 50. that stays for now until i figure out how to take incredible's advice and format it into a marketing model with right safeguards in place.

Enjoy.

 

[dionysus]

I have to say, it's nice to see casinos and reps who listen to players - we arent always right (we want $, you guys want to make $, so of course, you have to only listen and balance it with common sense) but it seems so many make decisions and that's that, end of story. We hear a lot of lip service and some we dont hear from at all. So, well, kudos

 

[The Viking]

Good to go - all that got the bonus at x70 (sorry, that was indeed steep) will get it again on next login now with x30.

Max WD is at 50. that stays for now until i figure out how to take incredible's advice and format it into a marketing model with right safeguards in place.

Enjoy.

I got it at 70x, logged out and back in after reading this post, it wasnt there
also if it reappears is this $5 only for the olympus game, tried it out didnt really like it. Got a lot of bonus rounds though 3 free spins and 4 bonus rounds but, best paid only 10x the bet

 

[Igor82]

I got it at 70x, logged out and back in after reading this post, it wasnt there
also if it reappears is this $5 only for the olympus game, tried it out didnt really like it. Got a lot of bonus rounds though 3 free spins and 4 bonus rounds but, best paid only 10x the bet

try again in a few minutes.. i think the system is running the script and checking for eligbility (checks if you got it, then if you still have it, then if you got it and dont have it any longer - it will give it

If you give it a few minutes im sure it will pop in.

 

[incrediblestuff]

Lol, didn't even occur to me that i too am one of those "all" so i am definitely off to play now ^.^

As i am still a non depositor i do not mind the max cash out one bit, and who knows, maybe that slot will give me some insane bonus round and i will come to like it overall

You know my feedback was not with the intent of you dropping the w/r and raising the max cashout, but i do appreciate it of course.

And i have to agree with dio, you seem to be one of those golden apples...

 

[Igor82]

x70 PLUS max cashout didnt make sense.

It's over protective and to the general audience the response will be instead of

no way to keep or gain a customer so we changed it. Selfish reasons, really ;P

 

[akrus88]

my experience

I request withdraw on saturday 11am. After that sent in my documents in case they are needed. Sunday 3pm got email from the casino asking for couple more documents (screenie from skrill and another utility bill, as the other was outdated). So at 11pm sunday sent the new documents in. (Kudos for beeing strict with the docs.)

Today at 2pm got my money to my skrill account and an email message, that my account is verified and my withdrawal is processed.

After sending my first email and waiting 30h for an answer, Iwas a bit frustrated about the lack of live chat. But after all everything worked out smooth and really fast. Thanks for Igor and Bet-at.eu!

 

[Igor82]

I request withdraw on saturday 11am. After that sent in my documents in case they are needed. Sunday 3pm got email from the casino asking for couple more documents (screenie from skrill and another utility bill, as the other was outdated). So at 11pm sunday sent the new documents in. (Kudos for beeing strict with the docs.)

Today at 2pm got my money to my skrill account and an email message, that my account is verified and my withdrawal is processed.

After sending my first email and waiting 30h for an answer, Iwas a bit frustrated about the lack of live chat. But after all everything worked out smooth and really fast. Thanks for Igor and Bet-at.eu!

Akrus, i'm really happy it worked out! I'm sorry about taking a while but with doc checks we can ever be sure how long it takes which is why we stress on early delivery. Weekends and docs don't agree unfortunately It's always slower but im working on improving it.

I'm glad you are not frustrated any longer i hope to see you again.

Igor

 

[akrus88]

You will see me around for sure . Thanks!

 

[Igor82]

You will see me around for sure . Thanks!

i just re-read your original post - "lack of live chat" ? what time were you online? I have coverage from 9am to 1am GMT +2 every day.

if you were within that time frame and saw no chat active please let me know.

 

[akrus88]

i just re-read your original post - "lack of live chat" ? what time were you online? I have coverage from 9am to 1am GMT +2 every day.

if you were within that time frame and saw no chat active please let me know.

At saturday I was around 9am GMT, pretty sure it was after 9am. And at sunday I checked out around maybe 2pm. It showed both times live chat offline. Odd happening, might ofcourse be some weirdish bugn.
I just thought live chat does not operate on weekends . But good if that is not the case.

 

[Igor82]

At saturday I was around 9am GMT, pretty sure it was after 9am. And at sunday I checked out around maybe 2pm. It showed both times live chat offline. Odd happening, might ofcourse be some weirdish bugn.
I just thought live chat does not operate on weekends . But good if that is not the case.

no no defo not the case. Need to check the logs - i might drop you a PM for browser version if i see that chat was live at that time. I'll look for gaps.

 

[Jasminebed]

I have to say, $40 for a deposit player is cheesy. $50 okay, that's 10x, and it is free. $100 is better, even if you put a higher wagering on it. $100 you feel like you won something at least. In fact, if the wager is higher, and the chip value is higher, it's even tougher to withdraw, but the player gets more time and a small chance at a better cashout.

Gamblers, and especially slot players, are about small chances.

My two cents.

 

[Jasminebed]

Some apologies, I missed a page of the thread.

And I did see that it was available, today's just been busy.

But if you really want feedback on a game, $5 is not to evaluate a game.

Give us $50 with a $50 max cashout, you might get real feedback from some.

In the short time I've been playing with Bet-at, I'm ahead. I got lucky. You can't always lose. But I'm wise enough to know that I can't expect to stay that way, but I'll try to stay that way as long as I can! Had a couple of chances to cash out $300 or $400 dollars last session, cashed out $150. But you never know.

I'm well on my way to being a loyal player. You make me feel like my custom is valued, and since I'm prepared to lose, that's very important to me.

If I find it's some game Canadians can't play, I'll throw a hissy fit!

J/K, since Dion got his. But it crossed my mind when I read the email. I love a new game.

And I mostly love free. So send me all the free stuff even with horrible WRs as long as I'm still ahead. And I'm confident when I'm on the downhill slide, you'll see I continue to feel valued.

 

[Jasminebed]

Ty for the fiver. I thought the game dead boring, the whole thing was too white, and the sounds annoying. I did hit both freespins and the bonus round twice.

I don't think there's any big payoff potential I could see from paytable. One bonus round I failed, payed 5x bet. The other one I succeeded, won 10x bet.

I did have a problem claiming the cruise bonus. I wanted to join steerage (lower deck), but I was never given an option to pick, and now I'm upper deck, with more wagering than I think I'd make. Also, the meter shows only 6 days to complete, when you need seven days of deposits and wagers, and supposed to be almost to month end.

I'll try to visit tomorrow during support hours about the cruise bonus.

 

[Nifty29]

OK.

I have a gripe about the ID process requirements.

I'm happy to provide photo ID.

I'm happy to provide utility bill.

I am not happy with taking screenshots of my Neteller account showing transactions to the casino. I've never been asked for this in all my years, and I always thought it was an extra step requested when there was some doubt about the integrity of the players i.e. suspected fraud.

AFAIK, it is overkill and IMO an invasion of my Neteller account privacy. Neteller have already verified me, the account emails match up, my name matches up, so I just don't see the need for it.

I know KYC is important, but having to send screenshots etc makes me feel like a fraudster or something. As I said, I have never been asked to do this.

 

[dionysus]

edit: checked email -docs here fine

 

[Igor82]

OK.

I have a gripe about the ID process requirements.

I'm happy to provide photo ID.

I'm happy to provide utility bill.

I am not happy with taking screenshots of my Neteller account showing transactions to the casino. I've never been asked for this in all my years, and I always thought it was an extra step requested when there was some doubt about the integrity of the players i.e. suspected fraud.

AFAIK, it is overkill and IMO an invasion of my Neteller account privacy. Neteller have already verified me, the account emails match up, my name matches up, so I just don't see the need for it.

I know KYC is important, but having to send screenshots etc makes me feel like a fraudster or something. As I said, I have never been asked to do this.

Nifty, I'm sorry you feel that's too much. I've had players request and GET money back stating that someone else got into their account and that they "don't know" of this casino.

I don't need your account details - i need to see that you have sent ONE transaction. I already know you made that transaction because i received it, so i don't follow how is that invasion of your privacy? i don't need to see other casino transactions- i need to see ONE transaction made to us, so i can have a trail of it being sent by you.

You may think it's an overkill, while i lost out on not being diligent in the past.

PM me if you still have an issue with that and we'll work something out as always.

 

[Nifty29]

Nifty, I'm sorry you feel that's too much. I've had players request and GET money back stating that someone else got into their account and that they "don't know" of this casino.

I don't need your account details - i need to see that you have sent ONE transaction. I already know you made that transaction because i received it, so i don't follow how is that invasion of your privacy? i don't need to see other casino transactions- i need to see ONE transaction made to us, so i can have a trail of it being sent by you.

You may think it's an overkill, while i lost out on not being diligent in the past.

PM me if you still have an issue with that and we'll work something out as always.

THanks Igor.

I have sent a copy of the email confirmation I received from Neteller for the deposit, which only I could have access to....hope this meets your requirements.

 

[mattsgame]

OK.

I have a gripe about the ID process requirements.

I'm happy to provide photo ID.

I'm happy to provide utility bill.

I am not happy with taking screenshots of my Neteller account showing transactions to the casino. I've never been asked for this in all my years, and I always thought it was an extra step requested when there was some doubt about the integrity of the players i.e. suspected fraud.

AFAIK, it is overkill and IMO an invasion of my Neteller account privacy. Neteller have already verified me, the account emails match up, my name matches up, so I just don't see the need for it.

I know KYC is important, but having to send screenshots etc makes me feel like a fraudster or something. As I said, I have never been asked to do this.

Strange you have never been asked for this before, almost 80% if not more are asking players for a screenshot of their web wallet accounts these days. I have had to provide it myself on numerous occasions and most of them from the accredited list.

 

[Nifty29]

Strange you have never been asked for this before, almost 80% if not more are asking players for a screenshot of there web wallet accounts these days. I have had to provide it myself on numerous occasions and most of them from the accredited list.

Well maybe I have just been lucky...?

I would hope forwarding the confirmation email would be sufficient, given it shows exactly the same thing as a screenshot.

 

[Igor82]

THanks Igor.

I have sent a copy of the email confirmation I received from Neteller for the deposit, which only I could have access to....hope this meets your requirements.

Thanks - yeah my team informed me, that will do. Similarly to how scans of credit cards are requested to protect against charge backs, i try to keep a trail of the fact you on your own accord transferred money into the casino and it wasnt "your 7 year old son who used your Neteller account while your pc was unlocked".

Unfortunately, the requests for cashbacks and excuses of why people lost money and why "they didn't know" are getting more frequent by the minute and we have to curb the exposure as the burden of proof falls always on us.

Igor

 

[incrediblestuff]

Well maybe I have just been lucky...?

I would hope forwarding the confirmation email would be sufficient, given it shows exactly the same thing as a screenshot.

Not quite, an email could easily be forged, but the transaction shows the unique transaction ID.

The only time i got asked for such a thing was when i was proving a failed transaction.

I also hate verification processes.. i read a few times about one general ID verification, i think that's a swell idea
I often have decided against trying a new Casino just to not have to do yet another VP when i would happen to get lucky.

 

[Igor82]

Not quite, an email could easily be forged, but the transaction shows the unique transaction ID.
I think that's what its about.

The only time i got asked for such a thing was when i was proving a failed transaction.

I actually didn't know that the e-mail doesn't hold the transaction ID. In that case Nifty - I'd prefer a snip of the transaction. I spoke to my team and informed them im in direct contact but i wouldn't want to make exceptions due to CM. I only need the snip of the transaction alone - no other info.

 

[Blathaon]

This is pretty common nowadays, This is usually what they want. Some may want you to screenshot the personal details page in your ewallet to. I see no problem with this.

 

[Igor82]

I also hate verification processes.. i read a few times about one general ID verification, i think that's a swell idea
I often have decided against trying a new Casino just to not have to do yet another VP when i would happen to get lucky.

If we as operators could come together, possibly with help of providers themselves and create a central database of fraudsters and honoured customers where a user can join and sustain their validity (like credit check) - that would make the job of ID checks so much easier.

The problem remains with the regulators and banks. For example i have had charge backs approved and had to send the money back to players i KNOW are dishonestly charging back. I had their full KYC docs, i had the scans of their credit cards and in the end - we are still at the mercy of the originating bank. They hold the final decision and all the documentation in the world sometimes just isn't accepted.

LGA likewise, requires me to hold player KYC information and store it for an audit whenever an audit is required. Thing you speak of is absolutely fantastic, but it requires a joint effort of many regulators, many providers and many operators to work and frankly, i don't know who has such power to bring all these giants together to speak the same tongue.

 

[Nifty29]

Not quite, an email could easily be forged, but the transaction shows the unique transaction ID.

The only time i got asked for such a thing was when i was proving a failed transaction.

I also hate verification processes.. i read a few times about one general ID verification, i think that's a swell idea
I often have decided against trying a new Casino just to not have to do yet another VP when i would happen to get lucky.

The email I receive from Neteller shows the unique transaction ID, which I assume would be matched up with the casino's record .

So, still no difference AFAIC.

Example:

Dear Loser,

You have successfully transferred funds from your NETELLER account to a registered NETELLER merchant.

The following transaction has been debited from your account.

Transaction details:

Merchant Name: NRR
Amount: xxxx USD
Foreign Exchange Rate: 1.00000000
NETELLER Transaction ID: 111xxxxxxxxx602
Date: Jul xx 14:41

Should you have any questions or feel you have received this email in error, please contact NETELLER Support, available 24 hours a day.

Thank you for choosing NETELLER

 

[Igor82]

The email I receive from Neteller shows the unique transaction ID, which I assume would be matched up with the casino's record .

So, still no difference AFAIC.

Example:

Good to go then. Sorry for my lack of knowledge in this - i didn't expose myself to the entirety of the process and personally don't have a neteller account.

I'm told your WD was sorted though - this is ok now?

 

[Nifty29]

Good to go then. Sorry for my lack of knowledge in this - i didn't expose myself to the entirety of the process and personally don't have a neteller account.

I'm told your WD was sorted though - this is ok now?

Yep. All sorted.

Thanks Igor

 

[vinylweatherman]

If we as operators could come together, possibly with help of providers themselves and create a central database of fraudsters and honoured customers where a user can join and sustain their validity (like credit check) - that would make the job of ID checks so much easier.

The problem remains with the regulators and banks. For example i have had charge backs approved and had to send the money back to players i KNOW are dishonestly charging back. I had their full KYC docs, i had the scans of their credit cards and in the end - we are still at the mercy of the originating bank. They hold the final decision and all the documentation in the world sometimes just isn't accepted.

LGA likewise, requires me to hold player KYC information and store it for an audit whenever an audit is required. Thing you speak of is absolutely fantastic, but it requires a joint effort of many regulators, many providers and many operators to work and frankly, i don't know who has such power to bring all these giants together to speak the same tongue.

This is what we need. Pressure from within the industry to standardise the ID procedures for players so that some kind of centralised system can be used rather than players having to run the gauntlet of over zealous security procedures at any new site they join.

Hopefully, a centralised system would be better equipped and resourced to cope with national differences in documentation standards so that players are not faced with "impossible demands".

It's refreshing to see Nifty get a little hot under the collar over an ID issue that has "never happened before" to him

Quite a few players have faced this problem, having happily managed to get verified at all the casinos they have played at in the past and then confronted with what they see as an unreasonable or even impossible request with a withdrawal held to ransom.

I was always under the impression that an "internet statement will not do", which creates serious problems for players who have moved away from doing things "the old fashioned way" to managing their utility accounts online. If a screenshot of an online only deposit method is OK because said method does not post out statements then an online utility statement should also be accepted from utility providers that "don't post paper statements" to their customers.

I was always under the impression that it was impossible to make a chargeback from a Neteller deposit, and this is stated in the Neteller terms of service. If this IS happening, then Neteller have terms that say one thing, but policies that do another.

I suspect it will be impossible to stop the con artists who manage to charge back despite you having done full KYC, and sought proof of knowingly making the deposit from the player. They have not just found a means to con you, but they have found a means to con their banks and card providers into processing fraudulent claims.

For any chargeback process (where the transactions are legal in the players' country), merchants have the opportunity to challenge the customers' complaint with the bank or card issuer. It seems to be this step that is failing you, and although you have the proofs, they are not the right ones as far as the banks are concerned.

For cards, are you using the "3D secure" type systems for verifying deposits?

These require the cardholder to enter a password to validate the transaction, and the banks are less likely to believe a fraudster's argument that "someone else used my card details without my knowledge" if there is also a record that they also knew this additional password, that CANNOT be gleaned from stealing the card details, or even the card itself.

I have noticed that most casinos do NOT employ this step, which means that possession of the card (or details) and the holders' name and address is enough to register and pass all the initial KYC checks at a casino to make successful deposits on said stolen cards. This makes it easy to convince the bank that it was card and ID fraud (when they lose of course), and any proof the casino can provide can be said to be the further work of the card and ID thief.

Some casinos are now asking for bank and card statements, and even eWallet statements. The problem here, as demonstrated by Nifty's objections, is that such statements are "private", and show transactions that are unrelated to the casino in question. Due to the design of such statements, a fair bit of editing is required to remove what a player feels is "private and irrelevant information", but this sometimes makes them look like fraudsters BECAUSE they have done so much editing out of other private information, and this can change the whole approach of the security department to one of having a fraudster on their hands that they need to "bust" with further evidence.

With Neteller in particular, you ask for:-

Account number
Neteller email
Transaction ID

The problem is that the first two are one piece of information that is used at the login screen for Neteller, and thus makes the players' account less secure as only one unknown piece of information, the Neteller password, stands between a hacker and someone's Neteller account.

The transaction ID itself could be used in a "blagging" attack over the phone by an ID thief as a means of tricking staff into resetting the password of the Neteller account, with the thief already set up to intercept the email that the process triggers.

Neteller have at least now introduced a next level of security, so the thief would need to know a few random facts about the account holders' private life in order to successfully reset the password and take over the account.


Kasino King had his Moneybookers account hacked and emptied, yet he is no newbie, and didn't expect to get caught out. After a long fight, he still has no real idea of HOW the hacker managed it, and is sure he didn't do anything silly himself, but he of course has been providing documents to casinos for KYC. Such things make players even more wary of what is being asked of in KYC, especially when the request is something they have never encountered before.

 

[incrediblestuff]

The email I receive from Neteller shows the unique transaction ID, which I assume would be matched up with the casino's record .

So, still no difference AFAIC.

Example:

Lol @ example "dear loser" ^^

Funny though, i just rechecked, and it does not show in either my money received nor money sent confirmations...
Possibly this has something to do with V.I.P. level?
Truth be told, i mostly use MB, but before i posted i did check if the transaction I.D. showed..

 

[007sam]

Break the bank

Had play on break the bank this morning £9 spin. Didnt do much damage £400 in, checked out with £200. Had email few hours later complimentary £10 x20wr. Managed to convert to £50 cash (£70 highest) so checked that out. Won the other week so still little up, like it when casino gives you a bit back, £25 next time eh..... Cheers