# Bars and Tripe! Odds are definitely Sods!

#### loganberry

##### Dormant account
I was wondering if any of you mathematical geniuses out there could throw some light on the following:

I have just finished playing a long session with Bars and Tripe, getting the 3 hat bonus a total of 32 times.

Every single time my pick gave me the lowest amount going. Every damned time. Not the middle amount, but always the lowest. It was absolutely heartbreaking to 'win' 250 coins when 25000 was frequently available. So my question is: what is the mathematical probability of this happening 32 times in a row?

Whenever I play Mad Hatters and get the cuckoo clock bonus there, I feel the odds are evenly balanced, as my picks result in sometimes winning, sometimes losing the highest amount on offer.

Definitely not my experience with Bars and Tripe.

I hestitate to say it....no I don't ..Is this game rigged?

Keeping in mind that I am not a math-head but merely a cursed 'picker' who always picks the lowest denom or gets the 'pooper' on the first or second pick (games like Pollenation) regardless of the game: I feel that players are not actually 'choosing' but only revealing what the game is giving us for the bonus.

The huge amounts they reveal that we did not win I regard as an MG 'neener neener neener'....

I feel that players are not actually 'choosing' but only revealing what the game is giving us for the bonus.

The huge amounts they reveal that we did not win I regard as an MG 'neener neener neener'....

Definatly sounds like their VP "double". You're right, it's predetermined.

IMO, showing the large amounts that you *could* win as being available only leads to some people thinking "damn, if I had only picked that one..." to keep 'em playing. Alot do know there's no rhyme or reason for picking in the bonus rounds, but yet there are a few out there that try and pick up on a pattern that simply doesn't exist.

Yes.. I am sure the game is simply 'displaying' the result as picked in the background. So... you hit spin, the RNG picks a number which corresponds to, say, a 10 win. The game could show this as a reel win or as a feature. If it's a picking feature you still pick 10 as this was what the RNG selected... the others are for show. Just like all the times on three-reel slots you get Jackpot, Jackpot, one above / below jackpot. It's to make you think "oh...next time it'll be there".

Well... I think that's how it works! I know Section 16 random 500 games in the UK work on that basis...

B.

Every single time my pick gave me the lowest amount going. Every damned time. Not the middle amount, but always the lowest. It was absolutely heartbreaking to 'win' 250 coins when 25000 was frequently available. So my question is: what is the mathematical probability of this happening 32 times in a row?

Whenever I play Mad Hatters and get the cuckoo clock bonus there, I feel the odds are evenly balanced, as my picks result in sometimes winning, sometimes losing the highest amount on offer.

Definitely not my experience with Bars and Tripe.

I hestitate to say it....no I don't ..Is this game rigged?
I'm not familiar with the game, but if there are 3 choices, and there is a 1/3 chance of drawing the lowest choice; then the odds of drawing the lowest choice 32 times in a row is roughly 1 in 500,000. It's safe to say there is more than a 1/3 choice of drawing the lowest result. Perhaps they use weighed odds, so that there is a 90+% chance of the lowest choice and a very low chance of the big wins.

The prize is more than likely chosen as soon as your bet reaches the server. In addition to this predetermined prize, it randomly selects another 2 amounts for show. The only purpose the other two choices serve is to create the illusion of a missed opportunity (or sometimes, a great pick on your part), and I am sure that nearly all "pick an object" type bonus rounds function in this manner.

AusVegas and Lasseters are decent enough to actually disclose that this is exactly how their bonus rounds function, for example:

Feature Game
Bunny Hunt Feature Game

In the Bunny Hunt slot machine game, the Bunny is the feature game symbol. When three or more Bunnies appear on a line which you are playing the feature game will activate.

The feature game is based on rabbit holes. Your choice in the feature game has no effect on the outcome of this game.

1. You will be presented with the bunny and four rabbit holes.
2. After the bunny has popped out of each hole, you can click on a hole. The bunny will then pop up out of his hiding place, and reveal your prize.

How the Feature Game Works

The feature game is designed to add "more excitement" to the game, and has no effect on the outcome of any spin.

Whether the feature game is displayed, is randomly determined by the game when you click the spin button. The winning symbols on the reels are simply covered by the feature game symbol, and when the reels stop, the feature game is displayed.

The win amount is calculated using the covered symbols, as the feature game symbol has no value. You can work out what the covered symbol is by looking at the total win and comparing it to the paytable. The feature game is simply a novel way to deliver to you the same win you would have received anyway.
-SlotsJunkie

Thanks, Slotjunkie! I had forgotten about that. I like it that they are up front about it.

Thanks, Slotjunkie! I had forgotten about that. I like it that they are up front about it.

Fair enough they are up front about it, but showing the lowest out of the 3 amounts 32 times in a row is just plain wrong IMO.

If it was random the chances of drawing the lowest result from 3, 32 times in a row is so remote it would never happen. (My calculater wont display it cause its too long LOL

roughly 1 in 500,000. \
Dumb mistake, sorry. 1 in 3^32 = 1 in 1.85 quadrillion... statistically impossible.

Because of the rigged/deceptive VP doubling at MG which really stunned me,
I am not willing to belive you have a case.

I have seen a 'high' prize about 20 times during my play on the slot, but only managed to pick it 3 or 4 times. This is a little below excepted, but it also caught my suspecion.

I find it highly unacceptable to cheat players this way. But I know a good reason it could be true. Like in Poker, you have people going on tilt and loosing a lot of money. Cheating players this way will manage to do the same. The picked the wrong hat, blame themself and get angry and they believe they were close to a big win if they had picked another hat. They keep playing believing they have a 1/3 chance to pick the good hat when one of they has a high prize.

Zoozie

Played again this morning (same Casino) and the picks were better - resulting in 25000 x 1, 12500 x 2, 10000 x 2, 7500 x 1, 5000 x 1, 750 x 2 and 250 x 1.

Have also noticed the same pattern with Moonshine, e.g. either 10 - 14 spins @ 3x or 4x or I pick the 'Start Spin Now' with my first pick. And whichever way it goes on my first pick, it remains that way for the entire time I am playing.

The only games with bonus picks I consider to be 'fair' are Cashanova and Mad Hatters - a mix of high and low consistently thoughout the entire game. A genuine case of sometimes I win, sometimes I lose.

What I found most upsetting about Bars and Tripe was that not once within 32 bonus picks did I win anything decent, and I am still having trouble accepting that as normal, particularly if the odds to achieve this really are as great as have been quoted above.

BTW, have noticed that with B&T, whenever I win a lot of scatters (4 and ocasionally 5), the Hats seem to be conspicuous by their absence.

Also found that with Mad Hatters - if the cuckoo clocks appear a lot, then those immensely cute little bunnies don't!

Thanks very much for everyone's input into this. Very dispiriting as I thought that it was all random! Anyway, should I deduce from all of this that if I am consistently 'picking' low, then I should go away and come back another day?

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