Question Asking for my overall RTP

[6HellsBells6]

Hello there,

Just wondered, If I have asked my current go to casino for my overall RTP since joining. Should they provide it? Or is it asking too much from them?

I asked them twice now over the course of this year, First time they told me I would receive an email with it, but never heard anything back.

Then last week, I asked again and was told the same thing but still never got it. So, I ask livechat and they told I could look through my history myself and figure it out.

But, on this site, the history is stats of Total spins on each game from every load up and just amount wagered and returned. Which would leave me with the head wrecking task off figuring out the difference from every time I loaded a game session.

Its doable but Fook that.

 

[Slottery]

Most of casinos do provide you all your gamehistory as CSV or other easy to crunch format, shouldn't be too much work for them. Just say that you want it and they should compile it for you, otherwise they might force you to ask all information they are holding from you, which includes all game history when you specify it, so easier for them just to provide all game history.

When you have that as CSV or other such format, you can easily calculate RTP:s for everything you want, all together, per game, per certain period etc..

 

[6HellsBells6]

Right, Well I will try again with them but the furthest i got with them is this

Then I asked, If they could provide further details as in the returns and they said that this was as much as they are able to do.

Even this screenshot doesn't come close to what I've played on the site. This next one is there recent response.

So, I don't know they do not seem to be very willing or helpful in providing me what I am asking for and the history page like I said i would have to manually calculate each and every single game session.

 

[09237653]

I once asked Casumo for my in/out/rtp on one game I dont think the CS even understood what I meant, after a few back and forth chats they eventually sent me a load of graphs with no data attached so i had a load of orange graphs and no way to make any sense of it, gave up in the end.

The best rtp/stats setup I have ever seen in any casino is videoslots 'my RTP' page, which shows your lifetime overall RTP with detailed information and graphs on individual slots play over the last 6 months.

 

[Slottery]

Right, Well I will try again with them but the furthest i got with them is thisView attachment 147085

Then I asked, If they could provide further details as in the returns and they said that this was as much as they are able to do.

Even this screenshot doesn't come close to what I've played on the site. This next one is there recent response.

View attachment 147087

So, I don't know they do not seem to be very willing or helpful in providing me what I am asking for and the history page like I said i would have to manually calculate each and every single game session.

Try to ask them to provide you spreadsheet with all your gaming transactions, depending what platform they are using, that's something they should for sure be able to get out from there, from some bit older ones it might be bit work for them but nothing they couldn't quite easily do.

If you get all your gamerounds in some semi decent format, calculating RTP is easy.

 

[6HellsBells6]

I once asked Casumo for my in/out/rtp on one game I dont think the CS even understood what I meant, after a few back and forth chats they eventually sent me a load of graphs with no data attached so i had a load of orange graphs and no way to make any sense of it, gave up in the end.

The best rtp/stats setup I have ever seen in any casino is videoslots 'my RTP' page, which shows your lifetime overall RTP with detailed information and graphs on individual slots play over the last 6 months.

View attachment 147088

Yeah nice , I like that about Videoslots. Haha yeah, I get you on some of the back and forths with Cs. But this site knows what I am asking for.

 

[6HellsBells6]

Try to ask them to provide you spreadsheet with all your gaming transactions, depending what platform they are using, that's something they should for sure be able to get out from there, from some bit older ones it might be bit work for them but nothing they couldn't quite easily do.

Ok, Thanks Slottery. I will try to be more specific with them and ask for a spreadsheet. And see what they say.

If you get all your gamerounds in some semi decent format, calculating RTP is easy.

Yeah, I understand that and was hoping with what they sent me with bets and spins pdf, If they had of included the returns then problem solved. But yeah when I pressed further for that, They were like no sorry that is all that i can provide you with.

So, Yeah again, I will ask for what you said and see how it goes.

Thanks for your help

 

[6HellsBells6]

So, I asked and got told by the Live Cs that he would have to forward my query to the financial department. Today I got the reply:

Sadly, every RTP rate is specific for each game and we do not have the tools to analyse them.

Therefore, we kindly ask you to check yourself with the help of the game description from the homepage of the game provider.

Seems to me it is too difficult for them to provide it.

 

[Slottery]

Seems mission impossible for them to understand that you only would need your all game transactions in CSV or another easily editable format, instead of that you have to make that sheet by adding your millions of game rounds one by one from your game history.....

Tools to analyze RTP is quite complicated but most learn it latest in secondary school, if you know amount of you have bet and amount these bets have returned, then that analyse is qutie simple math done in second with calculator

Sometimes it feels challenging to communicate with supports and trying to make them understand what you exactly want, think we have good example here

 

[6HellsBells6]

Seems mission impossible for them to understand that you only would need your all game transactions in CSV or another easily editable format, instead of that you have to make that sheet by adding your millions of game rounds one by one from your game history.....

Tools to analyze RTP is quite complicated but most learn it latest in secondary school, if you know amount of you have bet and amount these bets have returned, then that analyse is qutie simple math done in second with calculator

Sometimes it feels challenging to communicate with supports and trying to make them understand what you exactly want, think we have good example here

Haha yeah looks like I'm gonna have to do it the hard way.

 

[Kroffe]

I once asked Casumo for my in/out/rtp on one game I dont think the CS even understood what I meant, after a few back and forth chats they eventually sent me a load of graphs with no data attached so i had a load of orange graphs and no way to make any sense of it, gave up in the end.

The best rtp/stats setup I have ever seen in any casino is videoslots 'my RTP' page, which shows your lifetime overall RTP with detailed information and graphs on individual slots play over the last 6 months.

View attachment 147088

Yeah, the videoslots rtp&just overall stats available are miles ahead of any other site ive seen.
Sidenote: What the hell did you hit on the rift to get that kind of rtp haha

 

[DreamRJ]

*snipped*

 

[Kroffe]

As a whole though. I like their slots for low rolling on at times. They can keep you playing mostly when they are in a good mood. You can not win that much on them though. Max win on average on most of their slots is around 500X

But they do have a few that you can win about 1000X on I think too.

I have had some decent wins on them over the years too. Had 500X multiple times on a few of their slots.

I know the visuals are out dated, but I like the old school style of them.

 

[DreamRJ]

View attachment 147165

lmao yep. thanks for pointing it out.

 

[KasinoKing]

Right, Well I will try again with them but the furthest i got with them is thisView attachment 147085

Then I asked, If they could provide further details as in the returns and they said that this was as much as they are able to do.

Even this screenshot doesn't come close to what I've played on the site. This next one is there recent response.

View attachment 147087

So, I don't know they do not seem to be very willing or helpful in providing me what I am asking for and the history page like I said i would have to manually calculate each and every single game session.

Well obviously you can find the THEORETICAL RTP of all those games, but why exactly do you want to find your actual personal RTP?
You could work it out if you knew exactly how much you won or lost on each game.

But to be honest, with those relatively low number of spins played, your RTP's could be anything from 20% to 2,000% = pretty meaningless.
Much like my stats at VS on games I have only played a small number of spins on...

KK

 

[6HellsBells6]

Well obviously you can find the THEORETICAL RTP of all those games, but why exactly do you want to find your actual personal RTP?
You could work it out if you knew exactly how much you won or lost on each game.

But to be honest, with those relatively low number of spins played, your RTP's could be anything from 20% to 2,000% = pretty meaningless.
Much like my stats at VS on games I have only played a small number of spins on...

View attachment 147176

KK

Well, That was just a sample of how they provided me some stats. I have 11 months of play here every week. I could manually do it but it is about a 100 pages or more because each load up off a game is viewed as a new session.

I guess I am looking for the overall RTP because I think it's pretty bad like somewhere between 50 and 60%, not that it will make much difference on my play there but I just want too see, how bad it really is.

For me to manually to do this, It is going to take me a better part of a day and then some, if i can be bothered to constantly click and paste.

So, call it lazy or whatever but I can't believe a casino in 2020, Doesn't have the tools at their disposal too provide me with my overall stats.

And like I said it won't make much of a difference but at least it would confirm it for me.

I once asked William Hill for the same and they provided it within a day and they said my overall RTP was 70% after a year and a half of play and they added it was bad and below average, so I just closed my account there and then.

So, I asked this question because it seems strange to me , that they are not able to provide it with all the analyze tools available to them nowadays.

 

[Slottery]

Providing your whole gamehistory in spreadsheet really shouldn't be mission impossible, you seem to be from Ireland so taking guess you are playing under MGA license so if they ever been audited with MGA standards (like they most probably are) they should be used to request that "Provide XYZ asap" like 30 biggest depositors with their transaction histories and all other fun stuff. Don't believe they start to copy paste them line by line but most of platforms least you can get them at least month by month which is then easy to merge together.

 

[6HellsBells6]

Hi Slottery,

Yeap, Irish here to be sure, to be sure . It is also a MGA license but i think they hold duel licenses with Curacao which I am only after discovering.

Yeah, I replied too the email yesterday asking again , If they simply could provide me with a spreadsheet of all my gaming history. I haven't got a response as of yet and I don't really expect to either.

So, I give up on asking and will just have to do the mind numbing task of copying and pasting everything myself.

 

[Reelsoffun]

Well obviously you can find the THEORETICAL RTP of all those games, but why exactly do you want to find your actual personal RTP?
You could work it out if you knew exactly how much you won or lost on each game.

But to be honest, with those relatively low number of spins played, your RTP's could be anything from 20% to 2,000% = pretty meaningless.
Much like my stats at VS on games I have only played a small number of spins on...

View attachment 147176

KK

Yeah totally agree we all have games that we have played only a little and the variance in RTP can be huge, mine for example is currently,

1.92% to 6199.72%

 

[Reelsoffun]

Hi Slottery,

Yeap, Irish here to be sure, to be sure . It is also a MGA license but i think they hold duel licenses with Curacao which I am only after discovering.

Yeah, I replied too the email yesterday asking again , If they simply could provide me with a spreadsheet of all my gaming history. I haven't got a response as of yet and I don't really expect to either.

So, I give up on asking and will just have to do the mind numbing task of copying and pasting everything myself.

You might be better off asking for total wagers for a game and wins for same game if they can provide that you can get your RTP for each game at least by doing it yourself and same for your overall total RTP for site.

Total wins / total wager * 100 = RTP %

 

[09237653]

Yeah, the videoslots rtp&just overall stats available are miles ahead of any other site ive seen.
Sidenote: What the hell did you hit on the rift to get that kind of rtp haha

on the rift i had 2 spins and hit the bonus.

also the reason i have load of mega low png in my bottom 10 is from chasing four wins a in a row achievements.

 

[KasinoKing]

I guess I am looking for the overall RTP because I think it's pretty bad like somewhere between 50 and 60%, not that it will make much difference on my play there but I just want too see, how bad it really is.

Which casino is this???
The games in your list are all from regulated providers - no casino can run slots at less than the minimum setting - unless they are fake cloned games at a casino with a fake license...
Believe me, I know that games can sometimes FEEL like they're only paying out 25% - but that doesn't mean they've been "tweaked" - it's just a run of bad luck

KK

 

[6HellsBells6]

You might be better off asking for total wagers for a game and wins for same game if they can provide that you can get your RTP for each game at least by doing it yourself and same for your overall total RTP for site.

Total wins / total wager * 100 = RTP %

Yeah, I asked for that now again and I am told it will be a few days to provide me with that. So, I will hope that they will actually provide it this time. Last time they told me that, they never followed through,

But here's hoping.

 

[6HellsBells6]

Which casino is this???
The games in your list are all from regulated providers - no casino can run slots at less than the minimum setting - unless they are fake cloned games at a casino with a fake license...
Believe me, I know that games can sometimes FEEL like they're only paying out 25% - but that doesn't mean they've been "tweaked" - it's just a run of bad luck

KK

Hi KK,

Yeah I will wait to see if I am right on my overall RTP before naming them. But I can't see that they are not legit. I'm taking a break from their site now because it is like pouring money into a never ending black hole.

It wouldn't bother me that much, if i got a little playtime for my fair few deposits. But it feels like at this stage that I am paying for every deadspin.

I understand having a run of bad luck but I have never experienced a run this bad. It is like playing against myself on this site. I made another thread earlier this year asking if the amount of depositing players on a site would effect outcome on my play there.

Because that is all that I can figure why this site seems to be so bad. As in, there is not much money going through the site, so it has got nothing to pay out.

But I don't know if that falls on the Casino or Game providers?

 

[KasinoKing]

I understand having a run of bad luck but I have never experienced a run this bad. It is like playing against myself on this site. I made another thread earlier this year asking if the amount of depositing players on a site would effect outcome on my play there.

Because that is all that I can figure why this site seems to be so bad. As in, there is not much money going through the site, so it has got nothing to pay out.

But I don't know if that falls on the Casino or Game providers?

I think you are misunderstanding how slots and casinos work.
The way a game plays has NOTHING whatsoever to do with how many people are playing, or how many players or how much money the casino has.

Slots are basically glorified scratchcards - it doesn't matter if you buy them from a huge supermarket or a tiny corner shop, your winning chances are exactly the same.
The only slight variation from one casino to another, is if one casino is running a lower TRTP version of the games.

KK

 

[6HellsBells6]

I think you are misunderstanding how slots and casinos work.
The way a game plays has NOTHING whatsoever to do with how many people are playing, or how many players or how much money the casino has.

Slots are basically glorified scratchcards - it doesn't matter if you buy them from a huge supermarket or a tiny corner shop, your winning chances are exactly the same.
The only slight variation from one casino to another, is if one casino is running a lower TRTP version of the games.

KK

Ok, Great KK.

Yeah, I honestly do not, but really appreciate your time to explain that to me. Thanks for that.

Yeah, My view has always being like playing at a land based casino. Or poker machines. Obviously when enough money has been put through them, they are going to pay out at some stage.

Like this place I used to work at installed a new pinball type gambling machine. And from the start it paid out, a good few times and with well over the TRTP and then i watched over the weeks and months, How it was just on the take with a few seldom wins here and there. But always working to be within the realm of that TRTP.

But thanks man,

I do appreciate your input there.

 

[Takkaone]

The best rtp/stats setup I have ever seen in any casino is videoslots 'my RTP' page, which shows your lifetime overall RTP with detailed information and graphs on individual slots play over the last 6 months.

The stats provided by videoslots are okayish, as long as you keep the amount bet per spin in a pretty narrow range for each slot... What they call RTP% at videoslots is basically just your net-loss% / net-win% on a specific slot or during a specific timeframe because the formula they use is:

Total wins / total wager * 100 = RTP %

According to this formula 1000 dead spins each for 1€ and then 1 spin for 100€ paying 1100€ would equal 100% RTP (which obviously is nonsense for any non-compensated game).

The real RTP% in this example would be a shocking 1.099% ...... (1000 bets paying 0x + 1 bet paying 11x)

Of course this example is not realistic and quite exaggerated but here an example from my own gameplay on gemix:

If we ignore just that one big win betting way more than my average would change my LIFETIME-RTP% according to videoslots from 102.7% to 94.55%... Again, this way of calculating RTP% only makes (at least some) sense for compensated games / if every single spin IS NOT an independent event.

If we assume that every single spin is an independent event AND that betsize does not influence the outcome of a spin, we need to look at each spins result in terms of "x * bet amount".... (Sum of every spins results in "x*bet") / (total number of spins)= real RTP

 

[KasinoKing]

The stats provided by videoslots are okayish, as long as you keep the amount bet per spin in a pretty narrow range for each slot... What they call RTP% at videoslots is basically just your net-loss% / net-win% on a specific slot or during a specific timeframe because the formula they use is:

How do you know they work it out like that?
I don't really understand "net-loss% / net-win%" anyway

RTP % should be worked out like this: ((Total net loss (or win) + Total Wagers) / Total Wagers) x100
e.g.
You place £500 of bets and lose £100
-100 + 500 = 400
400/500 = 0.8
0.8 x 100 = 80%
or
You place £500 of bets and win £100
+100 + 500 = 600
600/500 = 1.2
1.2 x 120 = 120%

According to this formula 1000 dead spins each for 1€ and then 1 spin for 100€ paying 1100€ would equal 100% RTP (which obviously is nonsense for any non-compensated game).

The real RTP% in this example would be a shocking 1.099% ...... (1000 bets paying 0x + 1 bet paying 11x)

Sorry - but that's just not right.
I think you are confusing Actual RTP with Theoretical RTP.

In your example the actual RTP IS 100%.
Bet €1,100, Win €1,100 - it HAS to be 100%.
But if you stopped playing after the 1000 losing spins, your RTP would be 0%

KK

 

[09237653]

The stats provided by videoslots are okayish, as long as you keep the amount bet per spin in a pretty narrow range for each slot... What they call RTP% at videoslots is basically just your net-loss% / net-win% on a specific slot or during a specific timeframe because the formula they use is:



According to this formula 1000 dead spins each for 1€ and then 1 spin for 100€ paying 1100€ would equal 100% RTP (which obviously is nonsense for any non-compensated game).

The real RTP% in this example would be a shocking 1.099% ...... (1000 bets paying 0x + 1 bet paying 11x)

Of course this example is not realistic and quite exaggerated but here an example from my own gameplay on gemix:

View attachment 147428

If we ignore just that one big win betting way more than my average would change my LIFETIME-RTP% according to videoslots from 102.7% to 94.55%... Again, this way of calculating RTP% only makes (at least some) sense for compensated games / if every single spin IS NOT an independent event.

If we assume that every single spin is an independent event AND that betsize does not influence the outcome of a spin, we need to look at each spins result in terms of "x * bet amount".... (Sum of every spins results in "x*bet") / (total number of spins)= real RTP

Yes it can be skewed by stakes changing but I only tend to play 10p games anyway so its not a problem for me, the detailed stats can be checked on a session by session basis and also filtered by date but the detailed stats are only kept for the last 6 months.

But at the end of the day total out divided by total in is the RTP whatever stakes you used.

when my RTP was new my own RTP on reactoonz was showing 107% over 200,000 spins but that was skewed by getting lucky on 40p spins but most play being 20p spins.

 

[Takkaone]

You place £500 of bets and lose £100
-100 + 500 = 400
400/500 = 0.8
0.8 x 100 = 80%
or
You place £500 of bets and win £100
+100 + 500 = 600
600/500 = 1.2
1.2 x 120 = 120%

I would call that number something along the lines of "total return on investment"... But then i could also just look at my total amount deposited / withdrawn.

Sorry - but that's just not right.
I think you are confusing Actual RTP with Theoretical RTP.

In your example the actual RTP IS 100%.
Bet €1,100, Win €1,100 - it HAS to be 100%.
But if you stopped playing after the 1000 losing spins, your RTP would be 0%

Seems my definition of RTP and what that number should tell me is just different (or more likely i am using the wrong term).

To me my RTP should tell me how close / far away my results on a specific game are from the Theoretical RTP of that game (which i am pretty sure is calculated or tested using a fixed betsize).

And i think to get this information we have to eliminate betsize as a deciding factor -> look at the return% of every single spin...


Disclaimer: I am not a native speaker and to quote my math-teacher back in the days "mathematically challenged"... Combine these two things and it gets kinda difficult to express myself on this kind of topic

 

[Kroffe]

I always assumed rtp was just money in vs money out.
So bet €100, win €100, = 100% rtp.
Does not matter if you changed betsize during the time you were betting that €100, its still 100% return to player as long as the slot spits €100 back out, right?

 

[Takkaone]

@trancemonkey : i bet you already extensively covered the topic of "RTP" in your encyclopedic threads ;-) ... but maybe you could still chime in on this topic / the definition of RTP or direct me to your most relevant post about it?

 

[KasinoKing]

I always assumed rtp was just money in vs money out.
So bet €100, win €100, = 100% rtp.
Does not matter if you changed betsize during the time you were betting that €100, its still 100% return to player as long as the slot spits €100 back out, right?

Correct!
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Happy Christmas!