Ask me anything (about slots)!

[PMKFRUITPRO]

Haha yes it’s a full blown clue! Can take what u wish!!

I’d never be asking questions like that on a public forum if I had!!

OK i’ll Ask another question along the same lines.

When games do get updated (for whatever reason) do they have to go through all the compliance nonsense again? As if they were new games being released?

For example Thunderkicks Fruit Warp seems to get updated every week!! What’s the score when this happens??

Also Bonanza for example is on several different versions across different casinos? Why would this be? Graphical changes? Or to suit the various platforms better? Or could it be changes to the maths or variance?

I’m pretty sure I’ve noticed something on one version that can’t happen on another although of course I can’t be 100% sure.

I also heard rumours of a recent micro gaming cock up which got exploited. When this is corrected does the game have to be ‘relaunched’ as such??

Many thanks.

 

[trancemonkey]

Haha yes it’s a full blown clue! Can take what u wish!!

I’d never be asking questions like that on a public forum if I had!!

OK i’ll Ask another question along the same lines.

When games do get updated (for whatever reason) do they have to go through all the compliance nonsense again? As if they were new games being released?

For example Thunderkicks Fruit Warp seems to get updated every week!! What’s the score when this happens??

Also Bonanza for example is on several different versions across different casinos? Why would this be? Graphical changes? Or to suit the various platforms better? Or could it be changes to the maths or variance?

I’m pretty sure I’ve noticed something on one version that can’t happen on another although of course I can’t be 100% sure.

I also heard rumours of a recent micro gaming cock up which got exploited. When this is corrected does the game have to be ‘relaunched’ as such??

Many thanks.

Every version of a game that is released has to go through compliance, yes. The level of testing depends on what files have changed...

For example, GLI will make a list of all "critical" files in a game - these are mostly any files that affect the maths. If these change, then the game must go through a much more rigorous retest. If you only change non-critical files, the retest is much simpler and quicker.

 

[Spikie]

Trance,

In regard to the UK pub / club market , is there still any opportunity for any advantage play ? Seems like random is the preferred option nowadays, but are there still ‘tricks’ programmed into compensated games to your knowledge?

 

[trancemonkey]

Trance,

In regard to the UK pub / club market , is there still any opportunity for any advantage play ? Seems like random is the preferred option nowadays, but are there still ‘tricks’ programmed into compensated games to your knowledge?

In any compensated game, there can be advantage play. It depends on how the compensation is done as to how much advantage there is, but it still exists.

When I first did random slots for pubs, the operators hated them because they couldn't guarantee the income... one week they could lose 1000, the next they could make 2000. But now, they are much more common, and arguably fairer for the player.

 

[The Reel Story]

I've not posted here in ages. Been super busy :-/ Still, gonna wade in for the funzies!

RE: Bonanza, just confirming that it does hit the server for every cascade (I tested it)

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><GDMRESPONSE><OGS_RC>0</OGS_RC><SUCCESS>true</SUCCESS><PAYLOAD><![CDATA[&MSGID=BET&B=99913&VER=2.6.27-2.6.12-2.6.3-2.5.2526-264-4&RID=0&NRID=0&BPR=3&RB=6&RS=108|62|130|88|93|10|&TW=120&WC=6|0|0|&WS=0;24;3;0;1;0;-1;-1;|1;24;3;6;1;0;-1;-1;|2;24;3;0;1;1;-1;-1;|3;24;3;6;1;1;-1;-1;|4;12;2;2;6;2;-1;-1;|5;12;2;2;6;3;-1;-1;|&WM=1|1|1|1|1|1|&CW=120&NFG=1&FGT=1&TFG=1&CFGG=0&FGTW=0&IFG=0&FID=1|&MUL=1&SUB=0&GSD=RSID~0#RTW~120#CS~6;10;5;5#SF~4;4;4;4;3;3&GA=1&AB=99793&FRBAL=0&SID=Freehlgpt1tika59untl5qon6l2pu2&]]></PAYLOAD></GDMRESPONSE>

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><GDMRESPONSE><OGS_RC>0</OGS_RC><SUCCESS>true</SUCCESS><PAYLOAD><![CDATA[&MSGID=FREE_GAME&B=99961&VER=2.6.27-2.6.12-2.6.3-2.5.2526-264-4&RID=6&NRID=0&BPR=3&RB=6&RS=95|4|103|39|79|26|&TW=168&WC=4|0|0|&WS=0;12;1;2;1;-1;-1;-1;|1;12;1;6;1;-1;-1;-1;|2;12;1;2;6;-1;-1;-1;|3;12;1;6;6;-1;-1;-1;|&WM=1|1|1|1|&CW=48&NFG=1&FGT=1&TFG=2&CFGG=1&FGTW=0&IFG=1&FID=1|&MUL=1&SUB=0&GSD=RSID~1#RTW~168#CS~5;5;9;6#SF~4;4;4;4;3;3&GA=1&AB=99793&FRBAL=0&SID=Freehlgpt1tika59untl5qon6l2pu2&]]></PAYLOAD></GDMRESPONSE>

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><GDMRESPONSE><OGS_RC>0</OGS_RC><SUCCESS>true</SUCCESS><PAYLOAD><![CDATA[&MSGID=FREE_GAME&B=99961&VER=2.6.27-2.6.12-2.6.3-2.5.2526-264-4&RID=0&NRID=0&BPR=3&RB=6&RS=173|64|152|173|90|2|&TW=168&WC=0|0|0|&IFG=1&MUL=1&SUB=0&GSD=RSID~0#RTW~168#CS~9;6;10;4#SF~4;4;4;4;3;3&GA=1&AB=99961&FRBAL=0&SID=Freehlgpt1tika59untl5qon6l2pu2&]]></PAYLOAD></GDMRESPONSE>

3 server requests, Initial spin, cascade 1 and cascade 2 (P.S, I was playing for free and I got a bonus. I didn't play it cause knowing my luck it would have been a monster).

As for the auto-completing of Bonanza, as Trance said, it's a self healing mechanism. In the instance that it crashed before clicking 'start', likely the game got itself into a weird state (due to technical error) and therefore couldn't recover correctly, and so it just played out the result on the server and credited it. It'll be an edge case, but it happens.

As for versioning of games, remember that the version number you see on the front end probably has nothing to do with the version number of the server. Front ends get updated all the time (especially in this shitty HTML5 world) because changes have to be made to support different browsers, different/new mobile devices etc.

Different Casino's will take versions at a different time depending on who is hosting the graphical content (if BTG host it, it'll likely be the latest version at all times, if the Casino host it, there is a good chance they'll be slow in getting updates rolled out, especially if it's only an update that fixes a bug on Mobile Device X that only 0.1% of their player base uses

 

[paul7388]

I've not posted here in ages. Been super busy :-/ Still, gonna wade in for the funzies!

RE: Bonanza, just confirming that it does hit the server for every cascade (I tested it)

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><GDMRESPONSE><OGS_RC>0</OGS_RC><SUCCESS>true</SUCCESS><PAYLOAD><![CDATA[&MSGID=BET&B=99913&VER=2.6.27-2.6.12-2.6.3-2.5.2526-264-4&RID=0&NRID=0&BPR=3&RB=6&RS=108|62|130|88|93|10|&TW=120&WC=6|0|0|&WS=0;24;3;0;1;0;-1;-1;|1;24;3;6;1;0;-1;-1;|2;24;3;0;1;1;-1;-1;|3;24;3;6;1;1;-1;-1;|4;12;2;2;6;2;-1;-1;|5;12;2;2;6;3;-1;-1;|&WM=1|1|1|1|1|1|&CW=120&NFG=1&FGT=1&TFG=1&CFGG=0&FGTW=0&IFG=0&FID=1|&MUL=1&SUB=0&GSD=RSID~0#RTW~120#CS~6;10;5;5#SF~4;4;4;4;3;3&GA=1&AB=99793&FRBAL=0&SID=Freehlgpt1tika59untl5qon6l2pu2&]]></PAYLOAD></GDMRESPONSE>

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><GDMRESPONSE><OGS_RC>0</OGS_RC><SUCCESS>true</SUCCESS><PAYLOAD><![CDATA[&MSGID=FREE_GAME&B=99961&VER=2.6.27-2.6.12-2.6.3-2.5.2526-264-4&RID=6&NRID=0&BPR=3&RB=6&RS=95|4|103|39|79|26|&TW=168&WC=4|0|0|&WS=0;12;1;2;1;-1;-1;-1;|1;12;1;6;1;-1;-1;-1;|2;12;1;2;6;-1;-1;-1;|3;12;1;6;6;-1;-1;-1;|&WM=1|1|1|1|&CW=48&NFG=1&FGT=1&TFG=2&CFGG=1&FGTW=0&IFG=1&FID=1|&MUL=1&SUB=0&GSD=RSID~1#RTW~168#CS~5;5;9;6#SF~4;4;4;4;3;3&GA=1&AB=99793&FRBAL=0&SID=Freehlgpt1tika59untl5qon6l2pu2&]]></PAYLOAD></GDMRESPONSE>

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><GDMRESPONSE><OGS_RC>0</OGS_RC><SUCCESS>true</SUCCESS><PAYLOAD><![CDATA[&MSGID=FREE_GAME&B=99961&VER=2.6.27-2.6.12-2.6.3-2.5.2526-264-4&RID=0&NRID=0&BPR=3&RB=6&RS=173|64|152|173|90|2|&TW=168&WC=0|0|0|&IFG=1&MUL=1&SUB=0&GSD=RSID~0#RTW~168#CS~9;6;10;4#SF~4;4;4;4;3;3&GA=1&AB=99961&FRBAL=0&SID=Freehlgpt1tika59untl5qon6l2pu2&]]></PAYLOAD></GDMRESPONSE>

3 server requests, Initial spin, cascade 1 and cascade 2 (P.S, I was playing for free and I got a bonus. I didn't play it cause knowing my luck it would have been a monster).

As for the auto-completing of Bonanza, as Trance said, it's a self healing mechanism. In the instance that it crashed before clicking 'start', likely the game got itself into a weird state (due to technical error) and therefore couldn't recover correctly, and so it just played out the result on the server and credited it. It'll be an edge case, but it happens.

As for versioning of games, remember that the version number you see on the front end probably has nothing to do with the version number of the server. Front ends get updated all the time (especially in this shitty HTML5 world) because changes have to be made to support different browsers, different/new mobile devices etc.

Different Casino's will take versions at a different time depending on who is hosting the graphical content (if BTG host it, it'll likely be the latest version at all times, if the Casino host it, there is a good chance they'll be slow in getting updates rolled out, especially if it's only an update that fixes a bug on Mobile Device X that only 0.1% of their player base uses

Thanks . Been waiting years for someone to finally give a straight answer in simple to understand English. Now there can be no doubts at all

 

[brianmon]

I've not posted here in ages. Been super busy :-/ Still, gonna wade in for the funzies!

RE: Bonanza, just confirming that it does hit the server for every cascade (I tested it)

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><GDMRESPONSE><OGS_RC>0</OGS_RC><SUCCESS>true</SUCCESS><PAYLOAD><![CDATA[&MSGID=BET&B=99913&VER=2.6.27-2.6.12-2.6.3-2.5.2526-264-4&RID=0&NRID=0&BPR=3&RB=6&RS=108|62|130|88|93|10|&TW=120&WC=6|0|0|&WS=0;24;3;0;1;0;-1;-1;|1;24;3;6;1;0;-1;-1;|2;24;3;0;1;1;-1;-1;|3;24;3;6;1;1;-1;-1;|4;12;2;2;6;2;-1;-1;|5;12;2;2;6;3;-1;-1;|&WM=1|1|1|1|1|1|&CW=120&NFG=1&FGT=1&TFG=1&CFGG=0&FGTW=0&IFG=0&FID=1|&MUL=1&SUB=0&GSD=RSID~0#RTW~120#CS~6;10;5;5#SF~4;4;4;4;3;3&GA=1&AB=99793&FRBAL=0&SID=Freehlgpt1tika59untl5qon6l2pu2&]]></PAYLOAD></GDMRESPONSE>

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><GDMRESPONSE><OGS_RC>0</OGS_RC><SUCCESS>true</SUCCESS><PAYLOAD><![CDATA[&MSGID=FREE_GAME&B=99961&VER=2.6.27-2.6.12-2.6.3-2.5.2526-264-4&RID=6&NRID=0&BPR=3&RB=6&RS=95|4|103|39|79|26|&TW=168&WC=4|0|0|&WS=0;12;1;2;1;-1;-1;-1;|1;12;1;6;1;-1;-1;-1;|2;12;1;2;6;-1;-1;-1;|3;12;1;6;6;-1;-1;-1;|&WM=1|1|1|1|&CW=48&NFG=1&FGT=1&TFG=2&CFGG=1&FGTW=0&IFG=1&FID=1|&MUL=1&SUB=0&GSD=RSID~1#RTW~168#CS~5;5;9;6#SF~4;4;4;4;3;3&GA=1&AB=99793&FRBAL=0&SID=Freehlgpt1tika59untl5qon6l2pu2&]]></PAYLOAD></GDMRESPONSE>

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><GDMRESPONSE><OGS_RC>0</OGS_RC><SUCCESS>true</SUCCESS><PAYLOAD><![CDATA[&MSGID=FREE_GAME&B=99961&VER=2.6.27-2.6.12-2.6.3-2.5.2526-264-4&RID=0&NRID=0&BPR=3&RB=6&RS=173|64|152|173|90|2|&TW=168&WC=0|0|0|&IFG=1&MUL=1&SUB=0&GSD=RSID~0#RTW~168#CS~9;6;10;4#SF~4;4;4;4;3;3&GA=1&AB=99961&FRBAL=0&SID=Freehlgpt1tika59untl5qon6l2pu2&]]></PAYLOAD></GDMRESPONSE>

3 server requests, Initial spin, cascade 1 and cascade 2 (P.S, I was playing for free and I got a bonus. I didn't play it cause knowing my luck it would have been a monster).

As for the auto-completing of Bonanza, as Trance said, it's a self healing mechanism. In the instance that it crashed before clicking 'start', likely the game got itself into a weird state (due to technical error) and therefore couldn't recover correctly, and so it just played out the result on the server and credited it. It'll be an edge case, but it happens.

As for versioning of games, remember that the version number you see on the front end probably has nothing to do with the version number of the server. Front ends get updated all the time (especially in this shitty HTML5 world) because changes have to be made to support different browsers, different/new mobile devices etc.

Different Casino's will take versions at a different time depending on who is hosting the graphical content (if BTG host it, it'll likely be the latest version at all times, if the Casino host it, there is a good chance they'll be slow in getting updates rolled out, especially if it's only an update that fixes a bug on Mobile Device X that only 0.1% of their player base uses

Doesn't that just prove that the spin data isn't being logged properly/completely by the severs?
If it was then it would just be a case of resending the data for initial spin, cascade 1 and cascade 2 Then there's be none of those 'graphical errors'
which people are seeing.

 

[The Reel Story]

Doesn't that just prove that the spin data isn't being logged properly/completely by the severs?
If it was then it would just be a case of resending the data for initial spin, cascade 1 and cascade 2 Then there's be none of those 'graphical errors'
which people are seeing.

It shows that there may well have been a bug in the server code that caused an issue in a very rare and specific case, yes. This isn't uncommon in software. The fact that it healed without human intervention is proof of good design. Also likely that said bug has already been fixed.

 

[johnnybagel]

@trancemonkey I have just been reading about 'cycles' on slots. I'm still learning about them and i'm not a conspiracy theory type player, but I wondered if there was any truth to it?
As in the slot will build up a bankroll for itself before it pays out big (obviously little wins along the way will still happen, im on about really big wins). Sounds a bit like a jackpot really doesnt it but built into the game.
Do slots have any sort of allowance for how much they pay out compared with how much they have taken?

 

[The Reel Story]

@trancemonkey I have just been reading about 'cycles' on slots. I'm still learning about them and i'm not a conspiracy theory type player, but I wondered if there was any truth to it?
As in the slot will build up a bankroll for itself before it pays out big (obviously little wins along the way will still happen, im on about really big wins). Sounds a bit like a jackpot really doesnt it but built into the game.
Do slots have any sort of allowance for how much they pay out compared with how much they have taken?

No truth to it this is how a compensated machine works, but is illegal in online slots.

If you search 'how slots work rtp' on YouTube, ive done a video explaining how they work (and specifically addressing the theory above).

 

[trancemonkey]

@trancemonkey I have just been reading about 'cycles' on slots. I'm still learning about them and i'm not a conspiracy theory type player, but I wondered if there was any truth to it?
As in the slot will build up a bankroll for itself before it pays out big (obviously little wins along the way will still happen, im on about really big wins). Sounds a bit like a jackpot really doesnt it but built into the game.
Do slots have any sort of allowance for how much they pay out compared with how much they have taken?

As @The Reel Story says, there is no truth to it whatsoever. You have just as much chance of hitting 1000x on the first spin you ever make on a game as you do on the 1 millionth spin. Of course, slots can feel hot and cold, but this is just the way random games feel. It's purely statistics!

 

[Spikie]

Trancemonkey,

Would you agree and say the days of programming ‘flaws’ or otherwise that gave rise to advantage play in previous years are over ?

With server based gaming (including fobt’s) and online , real time statistics must show very quickly when a game isn’t playing as designed, and can be pulled in an instant.

Also can uk compensated machines still be manipulated for better players ? There can’t be much life left in that market , as it seems to penalise the casual punter , putting off most people that play them . Every time I have played a slot in a pub lately they seem to take money off you quicker than online.

The testing companies presumably have better software nowadays for checking backdoors and other faults .

Everyone wants to beat the game , but it must be getting harder all the time.

 

[trancemonkey]

Trancemonkey,

Would you agree and say the days of programming ‘flaws’ or otherwise that gave rise to advantage play in previous years are over ?

With server based gaming (including fobt’s) and online , real time statistics must show very quickly when a game isn’t playing as designed, and can be pulled in an instant.

Also can uk compensated machines still be manipulated for better players ? There can’t be much life left in that market , as it seems to penalise the casual punter , putting off most people that play them . Every time I have played a slot in a pub lately they seem to take money off you quicker than online.

The testing companies presumably have better software nowadays for checking backdoors and other faults .

Everyone wants to beat the game , but it must be getting harder all the time.

You can still advantage play on some compensated fruit machines of course, and games with progressives can sometimes be :better: to play than at other times (when progressives are over their average value), but yes, real time RTP monitoring means that any faults in RTP are quickly spotted

 

[Bloatgoat]

I just dont understand, how a bad run, or luck, or bad period of perhaps over weeks, could turn not just one slot cold, but all the slots cold as fuck. You'd say that all those games would have a indepedent RTP and not a 'casinowide' rtp.

Like for instance, when this luck turns back, it just cant go wrong on all slots and that is what bothers me. I think we should no longer look at that any game is random (the basegame is, big wins aint) but the serversided thing makes it random. It's pretty much proven by now that casino's do use a redistribution system over all deposits done by their players.

So if anyone is facing 'bad luck' after a big initial win or withdrawl, i think here you have the answer.

 

[Jono777]

I just dont understand, how a bad run, or luck, or bad period of perhaps over weeks, could turn not just one slot cold, but all the slots cold as fuck. You'd say that all those games would have a indepedent RTP and not a 'casinowide' rtp.

Like for instance, when this luck turns back, it just cant go wrong on all slots and that is what bothers me. I think we should no longer look at that any game is random (the basegame is, big wins aint) but the serversided thing makes it random. It's pretty much proven by now that casino's do use a redistribution system over all deposits done by their players.

So if anyone is facing 'bad luck' after a big initial win or withdrawl, i think here you have the answer.

Felt the part in red time after time its no wonder there are so many foil hat wearers in the gambling society, myself included

However yet to see the proof you describe

 

[Bloatgoat]

Well, pretty much years of experience, and a casino VIP manager who told me that in an email explaining how their system works. They said they where one of the first implementing that, and this was a year or so ago.

So it woud'nt suprise me, that that is some new tech slowly being applied to casino's. They do this in landbased already. Why would online be any different.

 

[Jono777]

Well, pretty much years of experience, and a casino VIP manager who told me that in an email explaining how their system works. They said they where one of the first implementing that, and this was a year or so ago.

So it woud'nt suprise me, that that is some new tech slowly being applied to casino's. They do this in landbased already. Why would online be any different.

By no means an expert on these matters but from my understanding each individual slot released has to go through rigorous testing, especially the RTP. If this understanding is correct then a group or casinowide "general" RTP would not be allowed and in breach of licencing conditions for sure?

 

[Bloatgoat]

I am no expert either, but technically that is possible, and if you take all players deposits and randomly distribute that among the players with a RTP of 96 to 98% is'nt that both security for the casino and a way of doing things in a legal way too?

As i said; normal casino's do this. Why would online be different. No i'm not talking about the independent pub slots or anything like that.

 

[Jono777]

I am no expert either, but technically that is possible, and if you take all players deposits and randomly distribute that among the players with a RTP of 96 to 98% is'nt that both security for the casino and a way of doing things in a legal way too?

As i said; normal casino's do this. Why would online be different. No i'm not talking about the independent pub slots or anything like that.

Possible but unethical and I'm sure breaking a barrel load of rules and regulations in the process.

I worked and played in land based casinos and every machine (AFAIK) were totally independent of the others.

Not visited in a long time so maybe they have "linked" them but I'd be VERY surprised if this turns out to be the case

 

[Bloatgoat]

I refuse to believe, that every slot is a indepenent piece of software, if i and others have nummerous weeks of 'bad luck' and once your depositted your way out of it, this luck turns around again. ANY slot hitting. It wagers you completely to shit if you keep playing on the same level all the time.

You bet big > You win big and it stalls you pretty quick. You bet low, it will pay low but a certain level (how the fuck can i hit 6x 24 spins on Chilli) and this low paying goes on to that certain point you would archieve with going big as well.

I hate to say it man but there's something going on with these casino's, these slots, independent my ass. Random my ass too. You cant have a bad streak for weeks, deposits over 5 grand or so and then all of a sudden slots vagina open wide up just for you.

 

[Kroffe]

I refuse to believe, that every slot is a indepenent piece of software, if i and others have nummerous weeks of 'bad luck' and once your depositted your way out of it, this luck turns around again. ANY slot hitting. It wagers you completely to shit if you keep playing on the same level all the time.

You bet big > You win big and it stalls you pretty quick. You bet low, it will pay low but a certain level (how the fuck can i hit 6x 24 spins on Chilli) and this low paying goes on to that certain point you would archieve with going big as well.

I hate to say it man but there's something going on with these casino's, these slots, independent my ass. Random my ass too. You cant have a bad streak for weeks, deposits over 5 grand or so and then all of a sudden slots vagina open wide up just for you.

Having a bad run is the norm tho isnt it?
If a slot is paying out according to its rtp, you are still losing €4 for every €100 you wager on that slot.
And a streak of "bad luck" beginning after a big hit is not weird, is it?
Big wins are rare, you were lucky to hit one, and then luck ended and slot started eating again, like they are supposed to.

Why would a casino Vip tell you something like that if that were true?
What casino was it?

 

[Bloatgoat]

Well, if a casino VIP would tell me, stating that they where one of the first few ones out on the market doing it like that, they would look like a pretty tool to me if that was'nt the case is it?

Thing what frustrates me the most, is that 7 out of 10 sessions, end up in losing in general. And if you win it's barely enough to even come even or you need to pull some serious betting in order to overcome the initial deposits.

I pick my slots in landbased, and i walk away 7 out of 10 times with profit. It's because i have certain experience with slots and i know which ones to pick. I have my favorite ones online as well, but the behaviour is just way different.

Perhaps this crazy high ass variance is what causing this. People who hit 8000 on a 40 cent bet, it's just ridiculous. Lucky for them tho! But in all fairness, this is killing the players who bet / play big.

 

[trancemonkey]

I just dont understand, how a bad run, or luck, or bad period of perhaps over weeks, could turn not just one slot cold, but all the slots cold as fuck. You'd say that all those games would have a indepedent RTP and not a 'casinowide' rtp.

Like for instance, when this luck turns back, it just cant go wrong on all slots and that is what bothers me. I think we should no longer look at that any game is random (the basegame is, big wins aint) but the serversided thing makes it random. It's pretty much proven by now that casino's do use a redistribution system over all deposits done by their players.

So if anyone is facing 'bad luck' after a big initial win or withdrawl, i think here you have the answer.

Proven by....

Let me guess, some casino rep - you use this as your proof time and time again.

Edit: I've just spotted you have.... hahahah

 

[trancemonkey]

I am no expert either, but technically that is possible, and if you take all players deposits and randomly distribute that among the players with a RTP of 96 to 98% is'nt that both security for the casino and a way of doing things in a legal way too?

As i said; normal casino's do this. Why would online be different. No i'm not talking about the independent pub slots or anything like that.

Of course it's not legal, and how would you account for different games running at different RTPs? And why on earth, for the thousandth time, do you think all the games providers are working together to break countless licensing conditions, laws and moral boundaries to do EXACTLY what individual game RTPs do...

I really don't know what to do with you, old Bloaty son.. you are convinced it is A, no matter how unlikely it is, because you "feel" it is true and some VIP manager (who is unlikely to have the first clue how games work) said something like that.

Question - what makes him more believable than me? My guess it is because he said what you wanted to hear..

 

[trancemonkey]

I am no expert either, but technically that is possible, and if you take all players deposits and randomly distribute that among the players with a RTP of 96 to 98% is'nt that both security for the casino and a way of doing things in a legal way too?

As i said; normal casino's do this. Why would online be different. No i'm not talking about the independent pub slots or anything like that.

Normal casinos do what?

 

[trancemonkey]

I refuse to believe, that every slot is a indepenent piece of software, if i and others have nummerous weeks of 'bad luck' and once your depositted your way out of it, this luck turns around again. ANY slot hitting. It wagers you completely to shit if you keep playing on the same level all the time.

You bet big > You win big and it stalls you pretty quick. You bet low, it will pay low but a certain level (how the fuck can i hit 6x 24 spins on Chilli) and this low paying goes on to that certain point you would archieve with going big as well.

I hate to say it man but there's something going on with these casino's, these slots, independent my ass. Random my ass too. You cant have a bad streak for weeks, deposits over 5 grand or so and then all of a sudden slots vagina open wide up just for you.

Almost as if they were random...

And that's the problem - you refuse to believe. So why even debate it then?

 

[Bloatgoat]

Look, i proberly sound like a fool, or i say some stuff that you cannot find yourself into, but i do see some questionable behaviour over the course of time going on with online slots. It's like almost just want to give up on hacking in the truth and do something else with my life perhaps.

You cant say running games with different RTP's. Lets put a few things togethere here and debunk what you say.

- Casino's can select the RTP.
- Casino's can hide the used RTP.
- RTP is lower for certain country's and players due to tax.
- Casino's could perhaps choose a different variance.
- Games do have different RTP's, lol.

I dont know, we dont know, nobody came in here on these forums showing different or at least convince that the truth is otherwise. Saying "some vip manager" ... Dude. Thats like having a salesmen on a garage who does'nt know what he's talking about. Woud'nt the online casino (brand) in this case, look like a complete tool if they would be having a VIP manager that's spreading BS about their system that they use?

I refer to normal as in landbased. They do it. And they proberly already have a model running online. It's more tight, secure, no slot running out of control or any of that. Perhaps a even more long term profit because the chances of a player abusing a slot (like i did, lol ) is very slim. I've spoken to a few people here as well that could testify on abusing certain online slots. It had a certain pattern and it had certain flaws.

You make it sound like the world is flawless, perfect, and that greedy casino's and slot providers do not exist. Really i dont believe it. Change one bit over the course of a million spins and look at the huge benefit for both party's alone. This forum is full with rogue casino's.

 

[trancemonkey]

I'll answer all your points tomorrow as it's late, but just one question while I'm asleep you can answer....

Why do you believe the VIP manager more than, say, me?

 

[Bloatgoat]

Why would they spread fud in your opinion?

 

[trancemonkey]

Why would they spread fud in your opinion?

You're not answering the question... why would I spread fud either?

And I very much doubt the guy you spoke to fully understands slots.. although I have no idea what casino it is, so I can't comment on whether or not it is actually fair anyway...

 

[goatwack]

Sorry to be 'that guy' but what the hell is fud

 

[slotmaster]

Sorry to be 'that guy' but what the hell is fud

The s word, S!@#!, ca-ca, BS, or for you u.k. peeps BOLLOX?

 

[slotter999]

Why would they spread fud in your opinion?

Perhaps for the same reasons you incessantly peddle fud on this forum i.e. they are just utterly clueless as to how slot machines work so invent ludicrous stories to try and fill in those gaps for how they think a slot might work.

 

[trancemonkey]

Answers below in your Quote:

Look, i proberly sound like a fool, or i say some stuff that you cannot find yourself into, but i do see some questionable behaviour over the course of time going on with online slots. It's like almost just want to give up on hacking in the truth and do something else with my life perhaps.

You can't hack a truth that doesn't exist

You cant say running games with different RTP's. Lets put a few things togethere here and debunk what you say.

You literally haven't debunked anything i've said - i've asked how redistribution of funds works if all games have different RTP's, and are played at entirely different rates and stakes...

For example, if everyone in a casino played at 20c, and then one guy comes in and plays a never before played game at €200, how does the casino "redistribute" money for the high roller - there simply wouldn't be enough swilling around.

It's simple maths, and you just simply don't understand it.

- Casino's can select the RTP.
Yes of course they can - both land-based and online games are normally produced with multiple RTP's. Land-based are nearly always much lower than online. Not sure what your point is. This doesn't prove some complex system of redistribution of funds and all manufacturers working together illegally to do exactly what individual games with their own RTP's do.
- Casino's can hide the used RTP.
In some jurisdictions, yes - they do not have to publish the target RTP's. This doesn't prove some complex system of redistribution of funds and all manufacturers working together illegally to do exactly what individual games with their own RTP's do.
- RTP is lower for certain country's and players due to tax.
Correct - of course it is. This doesn't prove some complex system of redistribution of funds and all manufacturers working together illegally to do exactly what individual games with their own RTP's do.
- Casino's could perhaps choose a different variance.
If games providers offered such a choice yes, although i have never heard of it. This doesn't prove some complex system of redistribution of funds and all manufacturers working together illegally to do exactly what individual games with their own RTP's do.
- Games do have different RTP's, lol.
Correct - of course they do. I've never suggested they don't. This doesn't prove some complex system of redistribution of funds and all manufacturers working together illegally to do exactly what individual games with their own RTP's do.

I dont know, we dont know, nobody came in here on these forums showing different or at least convince that the truth is otherwise. Saying "some vip manager" ... Dude. Thats like having a salesmen on a garage who does'nt know what he's talking about. Woud'nt the online casino (brand) in this case, look like a complete tool if they would be having a VIP manager that's spreading BS about their system that they use?

Get the VIP manager to come on here and discuss it with me then. Or are you somehow suggesting that a VIP manager would know more about the inner workings of games than the people that actually create them

I refer to normal as in landbased. They do it. No, they simply do not. I make land-based games, i know exactly how they work, what the laws are, what the testing process is, and i visit many operators and casinos. In fact, a lot use our central system, which i also know how it works. So please, tell me how i DO NOT KNOW what goes on in land-based casinos?

And they proberly already have a model running online. It's more tight, secure, no slot running out of control or any of that.

Again proving you have zero idea about the industry - Slots run out of control all the time, if you mean running over RTP. It's pure statistics. Some days casinos lose a lot of money, other days they make a lot. Variance is something casinos have to handle, and have funds to cover.

Perhaps a even more long term profit because the chances of a player abusing a slot (like i did, lol ) is very slim. I've spoken to a few people here as well that could testify on abusing certain online slots. It had a certain pattern and it had certain flaws.

Flaws happen. Some people find and exploit them. Modern day RTP monitoring software would pick this up and flag it as a problem, and then the games would be removed and / or fixed.

You make it sound like the world is flawless, perfect, and that greedy casino's and slot providers do not exist. Really i dont believe it. Change one bit over the course of a million spins and look at the huge benefit for both party's alone. This forum is full with rogue casino's.

Yes it is full of rogue casinos, and i cannot and will not talk for them - but what i can do is discuss all the legit ones that exist!

I know this is 10 minutes of my life i'll never get back, and you'll ignore it - but it's cathartic for me

 

[Jono777]

@Bloatgoat

Forgive me if I am mistaken but aren't you the person who was withdrawing regular 4-figure sums a few weeks back?

 

[Bloatgoat]

Yes, thats me. I still believe that i obtained by abusing a slot. Not just luck.

 

[LordSilver]

Perhaps this crazy high ass variance is what causing this. People who hit 8000 on a 40 cent bet, it's just ridiculous. Lucky for them tho! But in all fairness, this is killing the players who bet / play big.

Which is why there are games with different variance. One game doesn't cater all. If you don't like high variance games, play medium or low variance games. Different players will like different kind of slots and there is for sure something for everyone out there.

 

[trancemonkey]

Yes, thats me. I still believe that i obtained by abusing a slot. Not just luck.

Abused it by simply pressing the Start button? Maybe changing bet sizes or denoms...

Yeah you beat it, I admit

#facepalm

 

[Bloatgoat]

No, by constantly doing buy-ins on Chilli of 500 each. After an avg of 5 to 7 it would hit again and leave me with a positive bankroll. Do that 3 days straight and you'll end up in the 65k figure yes. The game was limited to 500 buy btw. It's changed now to a max of 2000 bonus buy.

 

[Halvor]

That's simply not how extra chilli works @Bloatgoat

Do you really think even in a case where a game had a malfunction. something like this would not have been discovered and corrected?

 

[Bloatgoat]

Whatever. I took 65k for it. A gamblers delight if you ask me. The only reason why i'm posting this now is because it does'nt work anymore.

 

[Halvor]

Congrats you got lucky, I dont feel the need to repeat trancemonkey's repeated explanations of RTP. But thats sort of how games work.

 

[Bloatgoat]

I was pretty sure i could go on like that for another 3 extra days, but i was more worried about the casino not paying me out. If they can and will find a reason to bash you with they will (with all the story's on the net). But they furfilled their duty just nicely without one single question asked. After that the website got a complete make-over, the game max buy was changed to 2k and i cannot repeat it anymore.

Sure that many hammer on how the RTP or slots nature work. But i have'nt seen a repeating proces like i did over and over and over again. I had my family watch me over RDP and show 'm that i was exploiting a slot there. For my brother it was nerve wrecking to see the 5 to 7 gambles which would fail, but compensate + extra on the end. And that little extra all the time caused me to push towards even the 70k range.

The 5k i just got greedy.

 

[trancemonkey]

No, by constantly doing buy-ins on Chilli of 500 each. After an avg of 5 to 7 it would hit again and leave me with a positive bankroll. Do that 3 days straight and you'll end up in the 65k figure yes. The game was limited to 500 buy btw. It's changed now to a max of 2000 bonus buy.

You were simply lucky - there is another thread (on CasinoGrounds) of someone allegedly buying 34 features in a row and losing every single gamble. I don't necessarily believe that, but it IS statistically possible, just like yours is. Do you honestly think BTG would not have spotted an error now given that RTP monitoring is a legal requirement in most regulated jurisdictions?

Come on...

And btw, you haven't commented at all about my answers in post 2234 (Ask me anything (about slots)!)

 

[trancemonkey]

I was pretty sure i could go on like that for another 3 extra days, but i was more worried about the casino not paying me out. If they can and will find a reason to bash you with they will (with all the story's on the net). But they furfilled their duty just nicely without one single question asked. After that the website got a complete make-over, the game max buy was changed to 2k and i cannot repeat it anymore.

Sure that many hammer on how the RTP or slots nature work. But i have'nt seen a repeating proces like i did over and over and over again. I had my family watch me over RDP and show 'm that i was exploiting a slot there. For my brother it was nerve wrecking to see the 5 to 7 gambles which would fail, but compensate + extra on the end. And that little extra all the time caused me to push towards even the 70k range.

The 5k i just got greedy.

Ok, i will say this as bluntly as i can...

You DID NOT EXPLOIT ANYTHING other than your luck.

 

[Bloatgoat]

Flaws happen. Some people find and exploit them. Modern day RTP monitoring software would pick this up and flag it as a problem, and then the games would be removed and / or fixed.

Ahh yess. Flaws now do exist. Bit strange right after i came back after a while shit was changed and no longer was doing what i was doing right.

Sorry have'nt readed your post. I'm sure that all the technical requirements and so on are in shape. And that a license can or will be revoked once they start fiddling around with it.

 

[trancemonkey]

Ahh yess. Flaws now do exist. Bit strange right after i came back after a while shit was changed and no longer was doing what i was doing right.

Sorry have'nt readed your post. I'm sure that all the technical requirements and so on are in shape. And that a license can or will be revoked once they start fiddling around with it.

Of course flaws can exist... but Extra Chili has been around forever, and the checksum of the package hasn't changed, so the game hasn't been fixed... you just think it has

 

[Bloatgoat]

So if changing a game alters the checksum, how would a casino selecting a game with a lower RTP not change the checksum?

 

[trancemonkey]

So if changing a game alters the checksum, how would a casino selecting a game with a lower RTP not change the checksum?

Oh jeez - you do realise one game package can contain more than one version of maths right?

A game package is uploaded on to the server, and AT ANY POINT the UKGC can ask for proof that that package is the one that was tested and passed by the certification laboratory. If you change it without getting it recertified, you are breaking the law. Simples.

 

[Bloatgoat]

the UKGC can ask

The world of casino's is'nt just from the UK alone man.