Are you people NUTS?

[bedunk]

I have been going to real c asinos for many years now...A couple of weeks ago I enetered my first Online casino...After just a few visits I have realized they are all rigged against the player and if you all don't see that you are out of your minds...Computers will be set for you to lose..I have only tried casinos suggested on this site...The play is not even close to being real and random as all the research I have done beforehand states. ...Some let you win big at first and then they take it all away...I kept enough to break even but thats all...I could see the trend I should have expected...Its impossible to play 15 numbers 10 times straight in roulette and not hit one number after winning over $700 doing the same methond unless it was set at a limit and and when reached, to take it back from there...Please wake up...And gamblers lie about winnings, thats a fact...

 

[rainman]

well your right about one thing online casinos do cheat whether it is right away or later on.I don't lie about winnings as little as I have had. I won before at club dice and vegas country and the old intercasino before they rigged it.

 

[bedunk]

Thanks for agreeing with me....These casinos are basically unreachable by any court to people in the USA even though it is illegal in the USA..Doesn't that tell you something right there, why they are flourishing...The greedier they get which is only a matter of time, they will all start cheating on larger basis than they already are..

 

[The Dude]

Hi Bedunk and welcome to the forum.

For one thing, you are way, way off.

<hr size=0>quote:<p> The play is not even close to being real and random as all the research I have done beforehand states.<hr size=0>​

Okay, put your money where your mouth is. Let's see the research. Feel free to post it or the links for it here. Afterwards, we'll compare it to findings by the Wizard of Odds (Michael Shackelford, actuary and Professor of Mathematics), and numerous others.

In my own experience, I generally do much better at online casinos than brick and mortar, but that's speaking for myself.

<hr size=0>quote:<p>These casinos are basically unreachable by any court to people in the USA even though it is illegal in the USA<hr size=0>​

False. This apply to casinos registered in Costa Rica, but many are registered in Europe and run by companies that fall under European law. There are a number of online casinos that are directly connected in essence to land based casinos. They would no way in any shape or form jeopordize their landbased license with a "cheating software" license.

It is NOT illegal in the US to gamble online; this is only applied to a few states...not the majority. Lest we forget, the US does not dominate the Internet. Please steer away from these ethnocentric assumptions. About 50% of the visitors here are from places other than the US, mostly Europe.

Finally, before some of the oldtimers chime in...please do your homework. Most of your claims seem to be kneejerk reactions spurned from hearsay.

 

[sirius]

Bedunk, did you register at my FairCasinos forum a couple of weeks ago (how did you find my site)? Which was the first casino you joined? I think you are safe with Microgaming Casinos if you play blackjack. It's always possible the online casinos cheat in some way but it won't be as obvious as you say as it could be easily found out. Roulette has a good casino advantage so the casino doesn't have to worry too much about winners because it takes little action for them to ensure a profit overall. If the casino is greedy they could rig it but it's unlikely that the major software providers do that.

I probably don't need to say this but it is always slightly more likely that you'll lose a certain amount than you'll win the same amount, playing the same way. Therefore if you are up quite a lot then you are just as likely to lose it all at an even higher rate with the same action. Of course, you could as likely double the winnings but that is the nature of gambling.

 

[hip_hop]

You mention that you kept enough to break even. If you break even at roulette you are ahead of the game. It might even be argued that the casino was cheating FOR you.

Hip Hop

 

[bedunk]

I don't beleive any of you can say you are actually winners...You are addicted to online gambling and therefore your judgement is very skewed....If your judgement isn't skewed then most likely you are connected to the online casinos yourselves....Out of all the software platforms I tried, Microgaming was definitely the most unfair of all...We have no way of knowing you or your connections...Even Europe at some time will ban online casinos as well and when that happens watch out...The casinos won't let you win a game...If you truly believe they aren't all fixed, then you are just fooling yourselves..Maybe if you look at your bank accounts and crawl out of denial, deep down you will know its true...And anyone advocating online gambling as honest or good form of entertainment should take a look at themselves as well...When the bonuses are gone so will the customers be gone..They figure they are screwing you so they take a small screwing to keep you hooked....Wake up and smell the toast burning...Get off your high horse as well...Its really just total ignorance on your part....or just stupidity

 

[rainman]

major software providers rig their blackjack since the player could cream them with correct basic strategy.They wait till the wr are up on the bonus. Very slick ,very deceptive.THis is a repeating pattern and I would love michael to test this at say intercasino. He needs to play after the wr though. Then again if the casino knows who he is they may just keep the game fair to insure he doesn't blacklist em.

 

[sirius]

bedunk, have you played riverbelle casino with the $250 match bonus?

 

[bedunk]

To the casinomeister,

You having admitted being a consultant to these online gaming companies makes you ineligible to defend or not defend them...In fact, common sense tells me not to trust a word you say....People here are pretty gullible if they do....Online casinos have made millions of dollars with small investments..They have plenty of money to cover the internet with advertising making them look good in the public eye...There very well may be a handful of honest ones but that is very small..Companies like this can disappear in a flash need be something goes against them...Their money is in offshore accounts not even reachable by European courts...I have read that one of the gaming oversight groups was found to be bogus..It is very possible they all are fronts for the large casinos online perpetuating lie after lie..Or maybe they just follow up below 5% of claims they receive...None of us has any proof of what they do...The internet is or any print form is not fact just because it is written and disseminated to the public...From what I have read, the only way to beat the casinos is by collecting the bonuses offered and cheating the casinos...Do you actually think they are stupid..
All the complaints I have read about ruthless casinos prove that as a whole the industry is full of corrupt and dishonest people trying to make the quick buck....If you can't see this, then you are blinded or as corrupt as they are...

 

[The Dude]

Bedunk,

My patience is very thin right now, and I will not invest the time to deal with your knee jerk postings.

I've been involved in this industry for a number of years, longer than most people. Believe me, I know the crooks, and I know the legitimate ones. Like said before, do your homework. Your mindless spewings are an irritant.

Unless you want to participate in a mindfull conversation, go play somewhere else. I don't have time to deal with this bs.

 

[bedunk]

You can ban me off your site and that's fine...It will only show that being attacked with the obvious you fold like a deck of cards....You can say I am just reacting to some short time thing but you don't have any other argument to prove the casinos are on the level except what is told to you by the casinos themselves and probably some phony oversight group not run by any government agency...I gave you the benefit of the doubt by saying that I am sure some may be honest in their dealings but a majority are not and that can be seen just by what you post on your website..If just under 10% are dishonest that not acceptable...Find me one industry in the world where 10% of the industry is dishonest and is still operating today...Theres a challenge you won't be able to come back with....Why the mask, what do you have to hide?....This should tell us something also....

 

[rowmare]

Oh my! Did we forget our meds today, bedunk?

 

[caps]

bedunk-

I presume that some of these operations, and possibly a relatively large percentage of them, do not play entirely fair. I don't care. I am extremely careful about where I play -- using information acquired here and at other places -- and I am, in the aggregate, rather nicely ahead. I am reasonably confident that I have been given a fair game at the places I play most. I stay away from the places that seem most likely to cheat. In terms of payment, I have never not been immediately paid the full amount owed to me by any casino I've played.

With this as my background, speak to me. What's your point? How, precisely, am I being screwed? Please, lend me the benefit of your incredible clarity of vision, and help me out of this pit of fraud and deception into which, with your help, I can now see that I've fallen. Please help me.

Or maybe you're just a punk who likes to stir things up. Is that it?

 

[linda7]

Bedunk:
I will take you up on your challenge. Want to know an industry that has only 10% HONESTY and still in operation? The US Government.

Bedunk, my thought as to why you started this thread can only be for one or two reasons. Either you blew through your lifesavings, or a family member did. Other than that, I cannot see any reason for you to keep coming here, insulting all of us and recanting your distrust of online casinos. No one makes any of us do anything we do not choose to do. No one will make you gamble online (unless you have a serious addiction, in which case there are many places that can help you). In any event, please stop annoying everyone on this forum. You could never tell us anything we do not already know. What intrigues me the most is the name you chose to give this thread. Since you have gambled online, I guess that makes you nuts as well.

Have a Happy Holiday Season and try to stop spewing hatred....it will do your heart a world of good.

 

[amandajm]

Debunk said:...In fact, common sense tells me not to trust a word you say....People here are pretty gullible if they do.

Actually the buiness model of this site means there is more info regarding shit casinos than blurb about the advertisers .

I can honestly hold my hands up and say i do believe a word or three about some of the antics casinos get up to he reports on.

Gullible is good though..

I personally think all posts are welcome- good or bad so welcome Debug and happy xmas.

Do try not to wind the boss up too much eh? Happy xmas.

 

[bedunk]

You people are getting upset over nothing..I must have hit a nerve....As far as Linda, you are just a too ignorant to even respond to...

 

[bradleyt]

So far so good. I'll take a 50% return any day of the week.

Date Casino Deposit Bonus Gross Cashout Net
12/14/2003 PlanetLuck 100 100 200 0 -100
12/19/2003 Crocksfords 150 150 300 500 350
12/20/2003 StarLuck 100 100 200 0 -100
12/21/2003 Pink Lady 50 60 110 75 25
12/22/2003 Commodore 200 200 400 173 -27
12/24/2003 Intercasino 80 80 160 175 95
12/24/2003 NewYorkCasino 100 100 200 160 60

Total $780.00 $790.00 $1,570.00 $1,083.00 $303.00

 

[caps]

Well, you elicited a few responses, which I suspect is all you really wanted in the first place.

No nerve hit here. One cannot possibly be more jaded and wary about this little sub-world than I am. My response was instead prompted by the arrogance of your messages, which seem to presume that everyone who plays in this arena must be blinded by naivete and/or addiction. I sure ain't, and, as I said, my net cash flow has been nicely positive -- so if these crooks and frauds (which they may be) have me as their target (which they might), they're doing a poor job. Let 'em keep duping me.

I suspect that I speak for the community here when I politely (or maybe not so politely ) suggest that you go forth and impose your protective services upon some folks who might actually need them.

 

[jetset]

A pity this forum does not have a poster profile facility as I would like to see when bedunk (or should that be debunk?) signed up before suddenly commencing posts in an arrogant and aggressive style that reeks of a hidden motive. Maybe he/she is leading us toward an important disclosure like a new "beat the casino" system!

And in the season of goodwill at that...

He or she clearly knows little about the industry but is maybe trying to break into it.

He/she is right about one thing - there are too many dishonest and generally fraudulent operators and players, but that does not change the fact that for those who know how to research properly there are plenty of sound and fair operations.

Don't lose your cool, Bryan - this person is obviously and deliberately trying to wind you up.

 

[sirius]

He signed up yesterday to the casinomeister forum. You should see his profile when you click on him. He signed up to mine on the 12th just about when he said he started playing online.

I was wondering if he signed up to riverbelle from my site because from a couple of new accounts this month that purchased in riverbelle around that time, my commission is high on that casino (over $400 from the new players there and it increased from $300 on the 23rd).

 

[cipher]

Bedunk, you have a right to your own opinion and that's for sure. But you do not have the right to make rude and incendiary comments about members who have substantially invested themselves in helping others through this Forum.

I'm glad to say that I know Linda7 quite well and that lady is far ahead of you when it comes to both class and intelligence.

I really don't think anyone here needs to hear anymore of your degenerate ramblings so I will be happy to make a motion that you be flushed. Have a good one.

Cipher

 

[jinnia]

I'll tell you this bedunk, Linda is NOT ignorant in any way, she was making a statement about the US government, just as you have about the online casinos, and of the people here.

In my opinion, Linda is far more intelligent than you, and has one hell of a lot more class!!

I second ciphers motion for the flushing!!

 

[jinnia]

Linda, Bewitch, lanidar--btw, I love your lizard--hahahaha, jetset, jpm, rowmare, cipher, casinomeister, glodge--though don't see him any longer here, and all the rest :
[color=119911]" MERRY CHRISTMAS "[/color]

 

[linda7]

Dear Cipher and Jinnia:
Your kind words of support were one of the best Christmas presents I have ever received. I hope you both know how much respect I have for you, and I consider myself Blessed to have you as friends. May this Holiday Season bring you much Health, Love and Happiness. I love you.

***hugs, love and kisss***
Linda

 

[cipher]

All the best to you and yours at this Holiday Season as well. Have a good one.

Cipher

 

[bewitch]

Merry Christmas!!!

I just got home from a Xmas party and check the forum. I can't believe what I just read. Bedunk, please grow up and be responsible for your own behavior. Don't act like a 4 years old... It's very clear you are a gambler and seems to enjoy it. So you choose what you want no matter land or online casino. You can express your thoughts or whatever, but has no right to be rude to ANYONE or bad mouths. BTW, I didn't own any business related to casino, just a player with 6 months online casino experience (don't even play at land). AND I made nice small profit.

Linda is one of the sweetest person you can ever met in your life. Please respect other people opinions if you want others to respect yours as well.

Jinnia, Happy holiday to you! Got your card. You are a sweet heart!

My recent hobby is "playing" the short-term stock investment (beside my normal retirement account). I called it educational and taxable gambling!!! LOL~

(Message edited by bewitch on December 26, 2003)

 

[bedunk]

First, I am not a child....I truly apologize to Linda but making such assumptions are as bad as my behavior...

All my other views stand as they are...I thought thats what this board was all about...Expressing one's views and opinions...This board encompasses a small percentage of the true online gamblers across the globe...You may be the lucky few who can say you are honestly ahead..Knock on wood for you all....

All I can say is that if you read this board and others like it, they are full of stories relating failed casinos and dishonest ones that never return your hard earned money...Nothing I have said here this past week should surprise any of you who are regular readers....Most of it is the truth and you can find it right here posted by you on this board....

Just like real land gambling, it all catches up to us in the long run if it hasn't already and you just can't bear to admit it....

 

[jinnia]

lets see, very first post by debunk::

and if you all don't see that you are out of your minds...
Please wake up...
And gamblers lie about winnings, thats a fact...

Started right off being insulting.

I for one am awake here, and I've been going to land based casinos for years, and playing online casinos little over a year, and there is no difference in how a computer controls wins and losses. Only difference between the two is, at a land casino you get your money if you win, at an online casino, you're taking a risk on getting paid at all, and no worries about giving out personal information about yourself and/or credit/checking accounts.

Computers control all slot games online and at land casinos, and they are all programed tight.

 

[slotchik]

lets see, very first post by debunk::

and if you all don't see that you are out of your minds...
Please wake up...
And gamblers lie about winnings, thats a fact...

Started right off being insulting.

I for one am awake here, and I've been going to land based casinos for years, and playing online casinos little over a year, and there is no difference in how a computer controls wins and losses. Only difference between the two is, at a land casino you get your money if you win, at an online casino, you're taking a risk on getting paid at all, and no worries about giving out personal information about yourself and/or credit/checking accounts.

Computers control all slot games online and at land casinos, and they are all programed tight.

My first win online was 7,500 dollars and I was paid by courier in 5 days. That was SUPER FAST back before neteller and prepaid atm...and I only deposited 25!!
I hit the progressive on a quarter slot ~

this guy obviously lost money online or he wouldn't be spouting off at everyone here. If he would of won, he would of said otherwise. There are plenty here who can show you their win/loss logs and many who are ahead. Yes, people DO lose, or the casinos wouldn't be in business but if NONE paid and NOBODY won, why would anyone continue to play??? MAKE SENSE????

 

[bedunk]

Actually I am not a loser...I smartened up quick on how the software works against you...I can quote almost everyone who posted in this forum from their previous posts about losing on what they thought were overly tight gaming software and the such...Tight, thats just another word for rigged...So everyone has experienced the bad ones and try to stay away from them but don't deny you never felt cheated by an online casino...I actually don't read enough about people winning on here if you read the posts...And I keep reading about thge software...Its not the software, software is inate like a rock...It isn't until someone picks up the rock and throws it through a window before it becomes dangerous...The same is for software, it is all basically the same and inate until the casino operators tweak it for their advantage...So stop blaming software and look at the real culprits...

Its just a matter of time when they start shutting down online casinos altogether....Can't you just have fun playing with the many gambling software packages out there....Its basically the same and at the end of a bad session you can still go to sleep at night....

 

[jinnia]

My first win online was 7,500 dollars and I was paid by courier in 5 days. That was SUPER FAST back before neteller and prepaid atm...and I only deposited 25!!
I hit the progressive on a quarter slot ~QUOTE]

Congratulations!! Glad you won and no problems in getting paid!

Your name just wasn't one flaggged to be cheated at time, but it will happen, wait and see.

Slot machines exist for raking in the money to pay wins at table games 'fact'! I know a few operators at land based casinos who has said so, and yes, they are controlled by computers of which are programed by 'people' to be tight, or if you like calling it rigged, so be it, both words actually mean the same in computerized gaming on land or over the internet.

 

[bbchang21]

The house edge is normal. Rigged means it is not a fair simulation of the real game.

Billy

 

[bradleyt]

Rigged would mean they take out 2 random high cards out of each shuffle. For example in shuffle one they take out the 10 Clubs and Queen Hearts. For shuffle two they take out the King diamonds and Jack Spades. Repeat, repeat. You'd hardly notice (if at all) but it would have an affect on the house edge.

Another example of rigging is second dealing which means when the dealer has a potential to bust it draws a card and does a check to see if it will bust. If it is a bust card then the dealer takes the next card off the deck no matter what it is. Again not too noticable because the dealer would still bust sometimes but it definately affects the house edge.

People know slots don't pay out 100% - that's why they should be played for entertainment only and not as a way to make money. The only exception is a jackpot slot where you know the threshold of the jackpot amount where the machine becomes theoretically profitable to play which is extremely rare.

Simply put there is absolutely no reason to rig any casino games because the house has the edge on every single game (except full pay dueces wild, all-american poker, pick-em poker and a few others and blackjack card-counters) and in the long run will take all your money.

They don't build $4 Billion dollar casinos (Bellagio) in Vegas because people have an edge at the games....

 

[bbchang21]

Rigged would mean they take out 2 random high cards out of each shuffle. For example in shuffle one they take out the 10 Clubs and Queen Hearts. For shuffle two they take out the King diamonds and Jack Spades. Repeat, repeat. You'd hardly notice (if at all) but it would have an affect on the house edge.

Another example of rigging is second dealing which means when the dealer has a potential to bust it draws a card and does a check to see if it will bust. If it is a bust card then the dealer takes the next card off the deck no matter what it is. Again not too noticable because the dealer would still bust sometimes but it definately affects the house edge. ...

This is why studies like TrueGambler are important, I just wish it had been done better, without the need for corrections after publication. Analyising millions of hand would pick up if the distribution of the initial hands are not in agreement with what's expected or if the player's win/loss/push ratio is too far off the expected values, even when an individual player might put these down to bad luck. Dealing seconds would be very noticeable though, even in a few hundred hands, just read the Wizard's Casino Bar investigation.

 

[diego]

major software providers rig their blackjack since the player could cream them with correct basic strategy.QUOTE]

Rainman, this is no correct. If you play basic strategy the house has the edge still. It is small edge yes but still a house advantage. Only if you combine basic strategy with card counting can you have a small advantage. You can verify this in every blackjack book and you do not know this? I think that when Rainman plays Blackjack he makes many mistakes because he does not know what he is doing.

I think online you cannot count because the cards are shuffled after every hand.

Go to wizardofodds.com for free good advice.

 

[kniepm]

Referring again to the Wiz's site, Boss Media single deck black jack has a Player advantage of .11%.

Does that mean you'll win every session you play there?

 

[bradleyt]

Referring again to the Wiz's site, Boss Media single deck black jack has a Player advantage of .11%.

So if you wanted to play $100 a hand you'd make $.11 per hand. Doesn't sound like much but on fast sites you can play hundreds of hands per hour.

Of course you'd have to deposit at least 1000x your betting units to overcome the large swings. And who would feel 100% safe sending $100,000 to someone you don't know in a foreign country....

 

[wossisface]

.Its impossible to play 15 numbers 10 times straight in roulette and not hit one number

Anything is possible in roulette.That is the nature of the game.If you have spent much time observing land-based roulette, as you claim to have, you will undoubtedly have seen runs of twenty-plus reds or blacks in a row, which I think disproves your point. Stop talking through your pocket and try a bit of research.

 

[bbchang21]

Not hitting 15 given numbers 10 times in a row has a probability of roughly 1/180 (European roulette) or 1/150 (American roulette). This does not even qualify as a rare event.

Some casinos publish the numbers that came on the roulette wheel, you can check wether you would have won or lost. I am fairly sure that if you go through a day's worth of numbers you will find occasions when your 15 numbers would have lost 10 times in a row.

If you still don't believe it, why don't you follow this strategy: Bet the table minimum on roulette until you lose 9 times in a row, then bet your house on the 10th spin, when you cannot lose, can you?

Billy

 

[diego]

I am interest to read the game rules they have for this game, this is determine the edge and if true player edge I will to play this game. Do you know which Boss site has this single deck softwares?

 

[rainman]

major software providers rig their blackjack since the player could cream them with correct basic strategy.QUOTE]

Rainman, this is no correct. If you play basic strategy the house has the edge still. It is small edge yes but still a house advantage. Only if you combine basic strategy with card counting can you have a small advantage. You can verify this in every blackjack book and you do not know this? I think that when Rainman plays Blackjack he makes many mistakes because he does not know what he is doing.

I think online you cannot count because the cards are shuffled after every hand.

Go to wizardofodds.com for free good advice.

So not true diego. Yes if u dont adjust your bets and just play perfect bs which i do that is not enough.No the house does not have the edge at say bj over the long run if you play perfect bs with card counting. The edge should stay about the same or in the general area.Brick and mortar casinos you should almost always have the edge at bj with bs and card counting as long as u stick to it. The casinos solution to this is to ban u , reshuffle after every hand or restrict your play. Online they just tweak the software at bj if you are winning too much.

 

[kryddturken]

So not true diego. Yes if u dont adjust your bets and just play perfect bs which i do that is not enough.No the house does not have the edge at say bj over the long run if you play perfect bs with card counting. The edge should stay about the same or in the general area.Brick and mortar casinos you should almost always have the edge at bj with bs and card counting as long as u stick to it. The casinos solution to this is to ban u , reshuffle after every hand or restrict your play. Online they just tweak the software at bj if you are winning too much.

Rainman, there is not a single online Casino offering any penetration worth mentioning. Sure, Intercasino does not shuffle after every hand but they DO shuffle at 33%, or even earlier. With a 8 deck shoe and 33% pen there's no real use counting. Same goes for global player Casino.

So, you can't count online - hence you can't have the edge.

 

[kniepm]

The Cryptologic blackjack starts with newly shuffled cards before each hand. The graphic showing "shuffling" once in a while is just a gimmick. There is no pentration deeper than the present hand.

 

[caruso]

Ladies & gents, if you want to receive an honest game, can I suggest you stop playing online and invest your time in bricks & mortar casinos?

My own "unsubstantiatable" conclusions, in order:

Playtech: blackjack and videopoker rigged.
Boss Media: blackjack rigged.
Microgaming: blackjack rigged.
Cryptologic: blackjack may actually be honest.
RTG: ALL games may actually be honest (God knows why, RTG of all platforms.)

Don't buy the argument that you need to "prove" the case: it is NEVER possible to prove results as being statistically impossible. NEVER. If you feel you've been cheated, you only have your own silly self to blame for risking your money to a shady computer operating an RNG (rigged number generator) located in a mud hut on a Carribean beach. Dear me, they cheated. Well, you could have knocked me sideways with that revelation .

Once upon quite a long time ago I believed all the major providers to be honest, based on the argument that they have too much to lose.

Needless to say, a few years down the line I've (ahem) adjusted that opinion. They have nothing to lose, because cheating is practically IMPOSSIBLE to prove (see above). Crooks cheat. It's what they do.

If your objective is to find honest games, go to your local casino.

Present your evidence by all means. Just don't be shocked or infuriated about being cheated. It comes with the territory.

 

[GrandMaster]

The Cryptologic blackjack starts with newly shuffled cards before each hand. The graphic showing "shuffling" once in a while is just a gimmick. There is no pentration deeper than the present hand.

The rules are different for single player and multiplayer blackjack. Multiplayer BJ has a penetration of 33% according to the rules, although I seemed more like 25% to me. It might still be possible to make money by counting if you play the table minimum or just watch while the deck is unfavourable, and bet the table maximum once it is in your favour. I cannot be bothered to calculate how often a favourable situation would occur, how big a bankroll you would need, and how much money you could expect to make.

 

[hhcfreebie]

The rules are different for single player and multiplayer blackjack. Multiplayer BJ has a penetration of 33% according to the rules, although I seemed more like 25% to me. It might still be possible to make money by counting if you play the table minimum or just watch while the deck is unfavourable, and bet the table maximum once it is in your favour. I cannot be bothered to calculate how often a favourable situation would occur, how big a bankroll you would need, and how much money you could expect to make.

If you just sit behind and bet only when the counts are positive, you will have the advantage.
It is pointless to bet minimum as others will draw the cards for you. Why weaste my own money when others will gladly throw it for me?
The best timing to do this is during the beginning of each month when lots of people have to wager for their monthly bonus. Still, it's very boring and only work in mutiplayer BJ. I've been waiting more than 40 min just for a positive one count.