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APCW Damaging Audit of Full Tilt Misleading

Discussion in 'Casino Industry Discussion' started by pokeraddict, Jan 29, 2009.

    Jan 29, 2009
  1. pokeraddict

    pokeraddict Webmaster

    Pro Poker Player
    Las Vegas
    APCW has an "audit" of Full Tilt here:

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    The audit, for lack of a better word makes absolutely no sense. The comparisons are terrible, the sample size is ridiculously small and hands that are sngs, mtts and cash games are all lumped together. The survey also uses stats that are wrong and constantly uses the phrases "vs random hands" when the hands are known. There is also a comparison of AA/KK vs the field with 110 samples and the count isn't disclosed how many of each there is a makeup and how many of the KK's lost to Ax etc. The whole thing is disgraceful.

    A well respected mod and poster at 2+2 was confronted by some conspiracy theorist to this study. This poster put forth a bunch of factual and statistical errors as well as pointed out countless theories that were assumed with no facts or can outright be unproven. An admin there openly admitted "First and foremost we have acknowledged the flaws with this audit. " OK, so they know the audit was flawed, they admit they have never done anything like this before and from reading the report it seems very clear the author is not a poker player. The admin goes on to seem to blame WOO and 2+2 for not helping him.

    Of course Mason isn't going to get involved in some ridiculous conspiracy theory

    I can see why he wouldn't either. Blaming others for not helping you doesn't give you the right to publish a very damaging false claim against Full Tilt.

    The poster that showed up the study as being inaccurate and basically libel had his posts removed and was banned and was then insulted by an admin:

    I have the posts saved and cannot for the life of me figure out where this comes from. Basically APCW was shown up, proved to not understand poker but yet published an admitted flawed audit, were asked to remove damaging libel that affects the entire industry's reputation but instead they banned the poster, locked their forum to non members and blasted this insult. BTW 2+2 were the people that busted Absolute Poker and Ultimate Bet, I don't get the first comment at all.

    I have complete respect for much of the work at APCW as it pertains to CardSpike and believe they have a place and value in this industry which shocks me even more that this is even available on their site when they admit it is flawed. I help mod a 2+2 forum of the poster that brought this out and his "job" there is to help noobs. That is how he stumbled upon this audit. After watching the audit and reading what "Cry Me a River" has to say I can completely say this report done by APCW is worthless and damages the industry without any proof. There is no reason to libel/slander Full Tilt and the entire industry when it is obvious the study is completely wrong. I hope they will consider removing that from their site for the good of their own site, Full Tilt and the entire online poker industry.

    I believe the discussion needed to continue somewhere that it wouldn't get deleted. Maybe this isn't allowed here, it isn't meant as an attack it is meant to get the attention of the community about something APCW has done that is very damaging, false and needs to be corrected.

    Sidestepping these questions made by CMAR leads me to believe the study isn't intentionally wrong but that the author has little poker knowledge. The video gives that away as these come out.

    Edit: I wish I could edit the title to something better, it shouldn't come off that way. Can an admin change it to "APCW Damaging Audit of Full Tilt Misleading".
    7 people like this.
  2. Jan 30, 2009
  3. winbig

    winbig Keep winning this amount.

    Easy. With A2s you can flop a straight, a flush or even a straight flush! :rolleyes:
  4. Jan 30, 2009

    NASHVEGAS Banned User - flamming, disrespecting admin,

    AUDITS and I have an on-going love/hate relationship,LOLOL.:D. Not sure why Pokeraddict's post brings the quote below to mind or maybe I am;). No, I have not been drinking!!:)

    "There are few things that are so unpardonably neglected in our country as poker. The upper class knows very little about it. Now and then you find ambassadors who have sort of a general knowledge of the game, but the ignorance of the people is fearful. Why, I have known clergymen, good men, kind-hearted, liberal, sincere, and all that, who did not know the meaning of a "flush." It is enough to make one ashamed of one's species."
    - quoted in A Bibliography of Mark Twain
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2009
    1 person likes this.
  6. Jan 30, 2009
  7. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator Staff Member

    Web Dev.
    Done PA :thumbsup:
    2 people like this.
  8. Jan 30, 2009
  9. suzecat

    suzecat Dormant account CAG MM webmeister

    Oh gee .......... you mean APCW doesn't have a clue??????? Say it ain't so ! :rolleyes: :D
    2 people like this.
  10. Jan 30, 2009
  11. lots0

    lots0 Banned User - troll posts - flaming

    I do nothing productive
    Hell on Earth
    I guess I just don't get why someone that does not intimately know the game would attempt to do an "audit" in the first place.

    2+2 and the Wiz are not the only places that could have been contacted for 'expert' assistance.

    There are actually real professional Auditors out there that understand the game, the poker rooms and the math.

    There is no excuse for a haf arsed "audit" to ever see the light of day.

    @ Pokeraddict - You know, if you were to publish an "Audit" of Full Tilt (or any other poker room for that matter), people would pay attention.
    2 people like this.

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