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Any games with players edge left?

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by YuraK, Apr 4, 2009.

    Apr 4, 2009
  1. YuraK

    YuraK Webmaster webmeister

    Occupation:
    webmaster
    Location:
    Russia
    I remember one-deck BJ at Boss Media with +0,13% EV. At Wizard of Odds I found "As far as I know, the only Boss Media casino to offer this game is the Two Sixes casino."
    Crypto had All American VP with 99,95% plus 0,1% comp points made it positive, but payout was reduced. I think RTG had some +EV VP too.

    So anything like this now?
     
  2. Apr 4, 2009
  3. Grey

    Grey Dormant account

    Occupation:
    education
    Location:
    France
    As I know, Betfair has a No house edge Blackjack with small table limits and Betvoyager has a some unique Blackjack games with equal odds.
     
  4. Apr 4, 2009
  5. Markus

    Markus Banned User - Violation of forum rule 1.10 - playe PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Software Developer
    Location:
    Berlin
    If you use The Double Up feature in Video Poker excessively you have a small player edge (around 0.5%) because of the Comp Points. This works at least in Playtech casinos. The drawback is you have an extreme high variance therefore it is not very practical. Here is a simulation:
    Code:
    import java.util.*;
    
    public class VideoPokerDouble
    {
    	public static void main(String [] args)
    	{
    		double dblBalance = 0.0;
    		double dblBet = 0.0;
    		double dblWagered = 0.0;
    		double dblDouble = 0.0;
    		double dblComp = 0.0;
    		Random rndZufall = new Random();
    		
    		final int GAMES = 500000000 /* 0 */;
    		for(double i = 0; i < GAMES; i++)
    		{
    			dblBet = 1.0;
    			dblWagered += dblBet;
    			dblBalance -= dblBet;
    			
    			int intJacksOrBetter = rndZufall.nextInt(100000001);
    			if(intJacksOrBetter < 2476)
    				dblDouble = 800.0;
    			if(intJacksOrBetter >= 2476 && intJacksOrBetter < 13407)
    				dblDouble = 50.0;
    			if(intJacksOrBetter >= 13407 && intJacksOrBetter < 249662)
    				dblDouble = 25.0;
    			if(intJacksOrBetter >= 249662 && intJacksOrBetter < 1400883)
    				dblDouble = 9.0;
    			if(intJacksOrBetter >= 1400883 && intJacksOrBetter < 2502334)
    				dblDouble = 6.0;
    			if(intJacksOrBetter >= 2502334 && intJacksOrBetter < 3625271)
    				dblDouble = 4.0;
    			if(intJacksOrBetter >= 3625271 && intJacksOrBetter < 11070141)
    				dblDouble = 3.0;
    			if(intJacksOrBetter >= 11070141 && intJacksOrBetter < 23998031)
    				dblDouble = 2.0;
    			if(intJacksOrBetter >= 23998031 && intJacksOrBetter < 45456534)
    				dblDouble = 1.0;
    			if(intJacksOrBetter >= 45456534)
    				dblDouble = 0.0;
    			
    			dblComp = 1.0;
    			
    			if(dblDouble > 0.0)
    			{
    				for(double j = 0; j < 20; j++)
    				{
    					dblComp += dblDouble;
    					int intKarte1 = rndZufall.nextInt(13);
    					int intKarte2 = rndZufall.nextInt(13);
    					if(intKarte1 == intKarte2)
    					{
    					}
    					else if(intKarte1 > intKarte2)
    					{
    						dblDouble *= 2.0;
    					}
    					else
    					{
    						dblDouble = 0.0;
    						break;
    					}
    					if(dblDouble > 1500.0)
    					{
    						break;
    					}
    				}
    			}
    			
    			dblBalance += dblDouble;
    			dblBalance += (dblComp / 1000.0);
    		}
    		
    		System.out.println("Player Edge: " + (100.0 / (dblWagered / dblBalance)) + " %");
    	}	
    }
    Output is (it varies if you run it several times):
    Code:
    Player Edge: 0.6928962522347478 %
    And of course some progressive games has a player edge, too.
     
  6. Apr 5, 2009
  7. aka23

    aka23 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Technical
    Location:
    Planet Earth
    There are a few options, but most games have such a slim edge that variance would be ridiculous:

    -As you mentioned, full pay Boss Media BJ at 2 Sixes

    -Vuetec BJ also has a small edge

    -5Dimes has some VP games that payout slightly above 100%. However full pay DW, is only available for limited periods (new policy, as I understand it). A few of the non-VP games also have an edge.

    -Many RTG casinos offer Joker Poker with a payout of slightly above 100%.

    -Some solitaire games have an edge with expert strategy. Unfortunately, optimal strategy is not known. Kismet/Cantor Gaming software was the one with the largest edge, and that game is no longer available.

    If you start adding in comp points or bonuses, then there are more options. There are also some other options, if you are creative about it.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Apr 5, 2009
  9. winbig

    winbig Keep winning this amount. webby PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Bum
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    It's been awhile since I checked, but didn't MG's classic single deck BJ have a +EV as well? I remember that it couldn't have been too much, maybe .1x%.

    If so, is it still that way?

    edit: It'd almost have to, considering the fact that MG's clearpay bonus system weights BJ as 5%.
     
  10. Apr 6, 2009
  11. aka23

    aka23 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Technical
    Location:
    Planet Earth
    Yes, about 0.1% (exact value depends on CD exceptions strategy)
     
  12. Apr 6, 2009
  13. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I thought it had a VERY low edge, but still to the house.

    Interestingly, there are a few MGS casinos that do NOT weight games for comp point purposes, and give 0.1% across the board. If any game, or any strategy for any game, can be found to give a house edge less than this, then it is a long term winner.

    MGS do NOT have Autoplay for either All Aces or Classic BJ, the only two games where a player edge might exist.

    I checked some while back on the Wizard's site, and did not see mention of MGS Classic BJ having a PLAYER edge, even WITH the exceptions in play. The problem is that in MGS there is a MISPRINT in the rules, they say one thing, but the game does another. This misprint DOES result in a slight player edge when run through the calculator, but the game itself does NOT play this way. From memory, the misprint is about splits and doubling, and the printed rules allow a wider range of choice than is actually the case when in play.

    The MGS VP games do NOT as far as I know count the doubling feature as "wagering" either for playthrough or comp point generation, so the simulated Playtech strategy would not work. All Aces is probably the best a player will get to a game with a Player edge, assuming comps at 0.1% are added, AND there is some kind of extra promo running.


    If you consider the entire package, there are occasions where net +EV situations occur. JF are running one at the moment:D I'll tell you all how it's done when it's over:p JF have done this in the past, but you DO need considerable brain power to figure some of them out, and once they see that a few players have, they change the goal posts:mad:

    The March - April one is a throwback to something they used to run a fair bit over 2 years ago, till I sussed it and won more than half of them:D. They changed the formats frequently after then, and I didn't win again:mad:

    A simple example of such a situation is where you can play a low house edge game, AND get 0.1% comp points, AND have your wagering count towards a score in some kind of wagering challenge competition. Provided the prizes are high enough, these events can occasionally become +EV some weeks. Easter, or other big holidays, are the best times to study these, since if more players are on holiday, there will be fewer players in any tournaments.

    I do not expect casinos will go back to offering games with a player edge unless the perfect strategy required is so complex even the Wizard can't work it out to post for all to see (and use).
     
  14. Apr 6, 2009
  15. Markus

    Markus Banned User - Violation of forum rule 1.10 - playe PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Software Developer
    Location:
    Berlin
    Can you tell me what is the composition dependent strategy where the player has a edge at Microgaming Classic Blackjack? The Wizard of Odds says there is a 0,09% house edge with this composition dependent strategy:
    You must register/login in order to see the link.
     
  16. Apr 6, 2009
  17. aka23

    aka23 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Technical
    Location:
    Planet Earth
    I meant a house edge of ~0.1%, not a player edge. Sorry for the confusion.
     
  18. Apr 6, 2009
  19. Jufo

    Jufo Three-toed sloth

    Occupation:
    Teacher
    Location:
    Finland
    Doesn't Jackpot Factory Vip Lounge give 0.2% in comps across all games by the way? Which would make classic BJ 0.11% +EV with comps.
     

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