Any Betat/Slotty Vegas reps on here?

[mac72]

Yes is it interesting to know the former owners are Ukrainian Duncan. By your own admission they were one of the top 5 brands you promoted for years yet in all this time you obviously had no idea of the ownership and appear to have been happy with that? If you didn’t know you couldn’t say who they were or what they were connected with and if it didn’t matter then it shouldn’t matter now??

 

[Tirilej]

Yes is it interesting to know the former owners are Ukrainian Duncan. By your own admission they were one of the top 5 brands you promoted for years yet in all this time you obviously had no idea of the ownership and appear to have been happy with that? If you didn’t know you couldn’t say who they were or what they were connected with and if it didn’t matter then it shouldn’t matter now??

Maybe they didn't tell they were from Ukraine. I had heard he was from several countries

 

[ThePOGG]

Yes is it interesting to know the former owners are Ukrainian Duncan. By your own admission they were one of the top 5 brands you promoted for years yet in all this time you obviously had no idea of the ownership and appear to have been happy with that? If you didn’t know you couldn’t say who they were or what they were connected with and if it didn’t matter then it shouldn’t matter now??

Actually, as with Casinomeister, I was led to believe the former CEO was the owner..... Maybe he's Ukrainian - I don't know - but he certainly didn't appear to be resident in the Ukraine and based on my, admittedly limited, experience with individuals from that area of the world I would not have jumped to the conclusion he was based on appearance or mannerisms.

And the point here isn't about knowing who the owners are, it's good to know but an ultimate irrelevance. The point in all of this is that, in my opinion, there's significant evidence suggesting that this group have some degree of association with a group of operators engaged in highly problematic activities. Activities that can and do hurt players and damage this industry as a whole. That to my mind is absolutely relevant and why it matters.

TP

 

[dunover]

Yes is it interesting to know the former owners are Ukrainian Duncan. By your own admission they were one of the top 5 brands you promoted for years yet in all this time you obviously had no idea of the ownership and appear to have been happy with that? If you didn’t know you couldn’t say who they were or what they were connected with and if it didn’t matter then it shouldn’t matter now??

The point is really an ethical one. We know the Bet-at casinos were good, paid quick and had a decent presence on here. Still do probably, I don't use them now. There were some affiliate issues a while back with stats at around the time of the changeover mentioned, seem to have been ironed out.
The dilemma facing webmasters isn't the fact players are being mistreated, or affs, because they aren't as far as I know - it's the fact that the evidence presented here suggests one of those two-tier operations as thePOGG stated.

This means a kosher and legitimate licensed operation for some markets but association with the shadier practices carried out elsewhere. There is a need here to remove all doubt that people involved in scamming via rogue casinos and fake software are not now involved with a legitimate operation by way of investing bad money into it to gain a foothold.

As thePOGG states, we already know of at least one highly dodgy UKGC licence granted (bcasino) with it's clear association to the GameTech scam casinos and the only possible conclusion in that case is that fraudulent funds have been used to open a decent casino via a shell company which seems good enough to convince the UKGC. Game Tech Group - AffPower - BCasino

Any decent affiliate, knowing the above, would never promote bcasino - quite rightly.

This is clearly the point of contention here - it's obvious that there is SOME connection but also a degree of separation which is the obvious strategy for a business purporting to be kosher. So there is a stalemate; legally one side cannot disprove totally the allegations due to confidentiality and the other damn well knows something is amiss but doesn't have all the pieces of the jigsaw, but enough to guess the picture.

 

[Harry_BKK]

To touch quickly on your assertion regarding common branding of "Vulkan", even going as far as to suggest that we form part of this monstrous group that have hijacked the honest German landbased outfit of Vulkan, WE are the opposite side of that - we own the rights for the actual trademark and in fact have a number of standing cease and desist orders against many of these rogue operations you are pointing to!

It really has reached a point where I cannot be bothered anymore with these assertions, as I truly do not have the time to keep this up. I will not continue to engage in this publicly, particularly when there is so much said of such little substance. If there's anything you require, my skype remains open as it has been for the past 8 years.

Thanks,
Karl

With all due respect Karlm but you do know who controls the gambling market in Germany? I don't mean the state-run Spielbanken, I mean the thousands of "Spielotheken". All have one thing in common - a legit business in the front but are run in the background by dubious gangs from a certain area in Europe. I let you guess which one it is.

Hence, I am sorry but a "clean" Vulkan" brand - I don't buy that one.

 

[EkJR]

I wasn't going to post on here again but I will. The "ADR" that this company use are in fact a sham. They do not and will not make any kind of decision that eCogra, IBAS or others would make on cases. The casino knew of the case within 10 MINUTES of it being submitted. I have asked Betat for proof that they carried out a KYC/age verification check, they have so far refused to co-operate and the next step will be to ask the data authority to gather this for me. I have also passed some details from these various discussions on this thread to the UKGC who seem, shall I say, concerned by developments. Also, the cowardly way this was dealt with by their presence on this thread and various others, to not respond directly to me by PM and instead air your laundry on a previous Betat thread is simply unacceptable practice. No matter my past and my problems you have acted in poor taste by your arrogance displayed not only on this thread but your communications. Safe to say I will be taking it as far as possible.

 

[mac72]

Actually, as with Casinomeister, I was led to believe the former CEO was the owner..... Maybe he's Ukrainian - I don't know - but he certainly didn't appear to be resident in the Ukraine and based on my, admittedly limited, experience with individuals from that area of the world I would not have jumped to the conclusion he was based on appearance or mannerisms.

And the point here isn't about knowing who the owners are, it's good to know but an ultimate irrelevance. The point in all of this is that, in my opinion, there's significant evidence suggesting that this group have some degree of association with a group of operators engaged in highly problematic activities. Activities that can and do hurt players and damage this industry as a whole. That to my mind is absolutely relevant and why it matters.

TP

If who the owners of betat/slotty are “is an ultimate irrelevance” then this is how I see this:
i) Betat/Slotty are a reputable casino , no issues in the past , paid customers , paid affiliates and highly regarded by both.
ii) This reputable group have purchased a German facing site “Vulcanbet”. They state they purchased it from a Malta Company it was a stand alone company not in any Company structure. The allegation levied against them is that this may have been set up as a stand alone by some spurious operation to provide a “front” for said spurious operations activities. That is complete guesswork I have seen no evidence but regardless now it is in the Betat/slotty family, before it entered that group it appears that it was a “clean operation”, has passed all due diligence with the various regulators and game providers who if you buy into the argument being promoted would all also be “guilty by association” and is being run by people who have a good track record.
iii) Since it was “clean” before and is “clean” now then what is the issue? That there are other unrelated “Vulcan” properties out there that are scam artists who Betat/slotty are openly saying they are in legal proceedings with over trademark infringement ? That you seek to link them to betat/slotty but can’t tell me definitively how? I thought it was the owners , now I’m told that’s irrelevant and in that case all I’m left with is:

Do Slotty/Betat/Vulcanbet supply fake games? The answer to that is NO I have seen no evidence to even suggest that about any of these three properties or the people involved in running them.

So here is my problem with what is going on here ,why I bother to take the time to post and for the avoidance of any doubt I am not affiliated with Betat/slotty/Vulcanbet in any way nor any of the people who work there I am simply a player.
This is trial by internet, it is the lowest of the low and has been brought to this level by those that brought the argument in the first place not because of their initial intentions ,that question was valid and needed to be asked but by the sloppy way they have dealt with the argument going forward when explanations have been given. That initial question was about the ownership and you have been given categoric denials by CMbetat that the owners are who you insinuate them to be. If you can prove those denials to be untruthful do so but you seem now not to care as “it’s ultimately relevant”. The cop out being used is “it can’t be proved but I think there’s something wrong “ and as stated previously I would of thought the correct way to handle that would of been to walk away from the group and not promote them anymore , no you have chosen (backed by some in here) to go out with a wrecking ball and actively seek to discredit them. I don’t believe you have the right morally or legally to do so , you have fully admitted that you COULD have this wrong so your actions are far over stepping the mark.
But I do also have a problem with Betat/slotty and their ownership who it’s said read these threads. WHY ARE YOU LETTING THIS CONTINUE? Why are you letting your brand be treated like this ? This reached the point of slander when questions were asked, answers were given and then the barrage continued , insinuations promoted as facts obviously intended to harm. You shouldn’t stand for this because THIS can harm this or any other industry if factually unsupported allegations can be continually promoted like this.

 

[CM_BETAT]

Mac72, I agree.

Please understand, I have been instructed by our legal team to cease commenting further. They are analysing the situation and will be acting accordingly.

Thank you all for your time.

 

[EkJR]

Mac72, I agree.

Please understand, I have been instructed by our legal team to cease commenting further. They are analysing the situation and will be acting accordingly.

Thank you all for your time.

Haha cowardly response as expected. I look forward to your legal team actually being responsive unlike the rest

If who the owners of betat/slotty are “is an ultimate irrelevance” then this is how I see this:
i) Betat/Slotty are a reputable casino , no issues in the past , paid customers , paid affiliates and highly regarded by both.
ii) This reputable group have purchased a German facing site “Vulcanbet”. They state they purchased it from a Malta Company it was a stand alone company not in any Company structure. The allegation levied against them is that this may have been set up as a stand alone by some spurious operation to provide a “front” for said spurious operations activities. That is complete guesswork I have seen no evidence but regardless now it is in the Betat/slotty family, before it entered that group it appears that it was a “clean operation”, has passed all due diligence with the various regulators and game providers who if you buy into the argument being promoted would all also be “guilty by association” and is being run by people who have a good track record.
iii) Since it was “clean” before and is “clean” now then what is the issue? That there are other unrelated “Vulcan” properties out there that are scam artists who Betat/slotty are openly saying they are in legal proceedings with over trademark infringement ? That you seek to link them to betat/slotty but can’t tell me definitively how? I thought it was the owners , now I’m told that’s irrelevant and in that case all I’m left with is:

Do Slotty/Betat/Vulcanbet supply fake games? The answer to that is NO I have seen no evidence to even suggest that about any of these three properties or the people involved in running them.

So here is my problem with what is going on here ,why I bother to take the time to post and for the avoidance of any doubt I am not affiliated with Betat/slotty/Vulcanbet in any way nor any of the people who work there I am simply a player.
This is trial by internet, it is the lowest of the low and has been brought to this level by those that brought the argument in the first place not because of their initial intentions ,that question was valid and needed to be asked but by the sloppy way they have dealt with the argument going forward when explanations have been given. That initial question was about the ownership and you have been given categoric denials by CMbetat that the owners are who you insinuate them to be. If you can prove those denials to be untruthful do so but you seem now not to care as “it’s ultimately relevant”. The cop out being used is “it can’t be proved but I think there’s something wrong “ and as stated previously I would of thought the correct way to handle that would of been to walk away from the group and not promote them anymore , no you have chosen (backed by some in here) to go out with a wrecking ball and actively seek to discredit them. I don’t believe you have the right morally or legally to do so , you have fully admitted that you COULD have this wrong so your actions are far over stepping the mark.
But I do also have a problem with Betat/slotty and their ownership who it’s said read these threads. WHY ARE YOU LETTING THIS CONTINUE? Why are you letting your brand be treated like this ? This reached the point of slander when questions were asked, answers were given and then the barrage continued , insinuations promoted as facts obviously intended to harm. You shouldn’t stand for this because THIS can harm this or any other industry if factually unsupported allegations can be continually promoted like this.

They should be discredited on the basis of the way they conduct their current operations let alone this debate about who their owners are.

They engage in slandering players on these threads as shown by Betats rant of a few days ago directed at me and another when they could simply have replied to a PM I sent. That is not the action of an ethical and trustworthy brand.

 

[CM_BETAT]

Ekjr,

That response was not to you.

I read your private message, but unfortunately i do not respond to threats. This is your 5th casino that you are attempting this stunt at.

You have been addressed to the UKGC endorsed ADR, but appear to be unhappy as they do not agree with you. We have made our case that we believe you to be a Self Exclusion fraudster. Members on this very forum already disagreed with you in a previous thread.

In the past I would have asked the forum moderator here to act in accordance with forum guidelines, particularly following your threats suggesting that you will attempt to damage our reputation should we not refund you funds which have been played through and lost validly. @Casinomeister

Our position remains the same - if you have a case, go to one(or all) of the many ADRs available. Trying to twist our arm into refunding you through threats of negative PR wont get you far.

Thank you

 

[Tirilej]

They engage in slandering players on these threads as shown by Betats rant of a few days ago directed at me and another when they could simply have replied to a PM I sent. That is not the action of an ethical and trustworthy brand.

That is actually what they have been doing in here since the beginning. That if they on their way of trying to clear their reputation can make someone else look worthless, or even get banned from here, then do it.
I know many agree with me there.

I also know that if they in any way can do the same against Duncan then they will. I don't know about Bryan but definitely Duncan.
Trying to protect the industry can never be wrong.

While writing this up comes a new post doing exactly that again.

 

[Casinomeister]

Yeah - I am shutting this thread down since I think there is not much more to be said here, and it's just in a downward spiral at the moment. Not good for the holidays. If anyone has anything else constructive to say, I will be willing to reopen this after the holidays. Until then...