Any Betat/Slotty Vegas reps on here?

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TheSam469

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The wagering used to be pretty decent, but 35x D & B is way too much. :/
Simply means that real funds contribute to the wagering of the bonus. Bonus remained non sticky. In the past, the wagering was bonus only x 30, where only bonus funds contributed to wagering.
 

ThePOGG

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Simply means that real funds contribute to the wagering of the bonus. Bonus remained non sticky. In the past, the wagering was bonus only x 30, where only bonus funds contributed to wagering.
Not and remain compliant with UKGC regs it doesn't. They could do that outside of the UK market, but within the UK as long as the user has only placed wagers with the deposited funds, they need to be able to withdraw the deposited funds and winnings at any time. An operator could choose to allow deposited funds to contribute to the wagering, but this would be a risky decision given the withdrawal rules enforced by the regulator and one I'm not aware of any operator actually taking.

This is just a different way of expressing a larger wagering requirement. Could as easily have been listed as 70xb (for a 100% bonus). It gets a little more complicated when messing with the percentages, but shouldn't impact which bets contribute to the wagering or when you can withdraw.

TP
 

TheSam469

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Not and remain compliant with UKGC regs it doesn't. They could do that outside of the UK market, but within the UK as long as the user has only placed wagers with the deposited funds, they need to be able to withdraw the deposited funds and winnings at any time. An operator could choose to allow deposited funds to contribute to the wagering, but this would be a risky decision given the withdrawal rules enforced by the regulator and one I'm not aware of any operator actually taking.

This is just a different way of expressing a larger wagering requirement. Could as easily have been listed as 70xb (for a 100% bonus). It gets a little more complicated when messing with the percentages, but shouldn't impact which bets contribute to the wagering or when you can withdraw.

TP
"They could do that outside of the UK market, but within the UK as long as the user has only placed wagers with the deposited funds, they need to be able to withdraw the deposited funds and winnings at any time" - Not sure I understand, but when a bonus is non sticky, it normally means you can withdraw your winnings - as per UKGC regulation?
 

mac72

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Not and remain compliant with UKGC regs it doesn't. They could do that outside of the UK market, but within the UK as long as the user has only placed wagers with the deposited funds, they need to be able to withdraw the deposited funds and winnings at any time. An operator could choose to allow deposited funds to contribute to the wagering, but this would be a risky decision given the withdrawal rules enforced by the regulator and one I'm not aware of any operator actually taking.

This is just a different way of expressing a larger wagering requirement. Could as easily have been listed as 70xb (for a 100% bonus). It gets a little more complicated when messing with the percentages, but shouldn't impact which bets contribute to the wagering or when you can withdraw.

TP
Dosen’t affect the withdrawing of your cash balance which you can do at any time. All casinos I know of since the change of bonus rules by UKGC your wagering only starts when you start to use your bonus. With betat/slotty wagering starts immediately which means you have the opportunity to convert your bonus to real funds even if you never go into bonus funds while still allowing you to cash out real funds at any time. Pretty decent actually but that’s just my opinion
 

ThePOGG

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The term "sticky" means a non-withdrawalbe bonus. It is a bonus that 'sticks' to your account and is removed by the operator when you withdraw (i.e. you can never withdraw it, even after completing the wagering requirements). This term has been in use for decades now and was a lot more common back when the Playtech platform operators were more common and preferred not to allow players to ever withdraw a bonus. It was an attempt to stop bonuses being used to gain an advantage over the house. It was unsuccessful and this type of bonus was still exploitable.

By the UKGC regs as long as you are only playing with your deposited funds you are free to withdraw your deposit and any winnings at any time. Effectively you are not subject to any bonus terms as long as you have not played with the bonus (including the wagering requirement, which is why play with your deposit does not normally contribute to the WR at operators using this bonus structure). The moment you place any wager with the bonus part of your balance (always stacked underneath the deposit), the whole balance becomes subject to bonus terms. As such you then have to complete the wagering requirement before you can withdraw anything. Once the wagering requirements are complete however, you are free to withdraw the entire balance including any bonus funds - the fact that you can withdraw the bonus funds (they're not deducted from your balance) classifies this bonus as a "cashable" bonus, albeit one that deviates slightly from the original format where all wagers contributed to the WR and your balance was locked from the moment you received the bonus.

On a side note this can make for a lot of additional complaints, especially with regard to max bet rules. While playing with your deposit the max bet rules should not apply. When you cross over to deposited funds it then does. Unless the player's watching carefully this is an easy pitfall. I do understand what the UK authorities were trying to achieve with this policy, but from a dispute mediation pov the bonus structure they've enforced is more complex and less intuitive for players to understand.

TP
 

ThePOGG

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Dosen’t affect the withdrawing of your cash balance which you can do at any time. All casinos I know of since the change of bonus rules by UKGC your wagering only starts when you start to use your bonus. With betat/slotty wagering starts immediately which means you have the opportunity to convert your bonus to real funds even if you never go into bonus funds while still allowing you to cash out real funds at any time. Pretty decent actually but that’s just my opinion
If they are specifically wagers from your deposit to contribute to the WR, they're the only operator I'm aware of doing this while using this structure. I'm not questioning you at all it's just an abnormality in the market. I would be interested to see how they then try to manage other bonus terms (like the max bet mentioned above) before the player has placed the first bonus wager (and thus engaged the bonus contract).

TP
 

mac72

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If they are specifically wagers from your deposit to contribute to the WR, they're the only operator I'm aware of doing this while using this structure. I'm not questioning you at all it's just an abnormality in the market. I would be interested to see how they then try to manage other bonus terms (like the max bet mentioned above) before the player has placed the first bonus wager (and thus engaged the bonus contract).

TP
I don’t see how it’s difficult to understand and actually fairer than anything else out there I’m aware of?? When your playing with real funds that’s it, your entitled to do as you please bet whatever size you want and withdraw at any time. When you go into bonus funds the normal rules apply and until you complete the wagering your bonus is locked. The slant being put on this appears to be that they have implemented something that is disadvantageous to the player, which I think is a misrepresentation as what they are actually letting you do is have a chance to convert your bonus funds to withdrawable cash should you never even touch those funds.Its a parachute bonus and an added edge rolled into one.
 

mac72

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I would be interested to see how they then try to manage other bonus terms (like the max bet mentioned above) before the player has placed the first bonus wager (and thus engaged the bonus contract).

I haven’t even looked at the terms as I’m on my phone but if you haven’t placed “your first bonus wager” can’t see how it would matter what max bet you play with cash .
In a nutshell all I see different is they are allowing your real money wagering to contribute to your turnover for bonus conversion and everything else is the same as it is elsewhere. The wagering requirements have been upped a bit but are reflective of this as said previously if you’ve had a good run with your own cash you may well convert the bonus given to withdrawable cash as well which i do agree is an anomaly but a good one
 

ThePOGG

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I don’t see how it’s difficult to understand and actually fairer than anything else out there I’m aware of?? When your playing with real funds that’s it, your entitled to do as you please bet whatever size you want and withdraw at any time. When you go into bonus funds the normal rules apply and until you complete the wagering your bonus is locked. The slant being put on this appears to be that they have implemented something that is disadvantageous to the player, which I think is a misrepresentation as what they are actually letting you do is have a chance to convert your bonus funds to withdrawable cash should you never even touch those funds.Its a parachute bonus and an added edge rolled into one.
You are entirely entitled to your own opinion. What I was saying is that, dealing with player complaints, this comes up on a regular basis. Player starts playing without restrictions, doesn't realise they've crossed into playing with the bonus, and voila, instant bonus term violation. Where the rules apply from the start the player doesn't have to remember to keep an eye out for when the rules start to apply. Mathematically the system the UK have put in place is slightly better for the player (though not by that great a deal imo) if the player keeps an eye on this, but for anyone not paying attention it creates an easy pitfall for the player. Personally, I feel that not having this pitfall outweighs the marginal value gains on offer with the UK system.

TP
 
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TheSam469

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If a player engages a bonus with their deposit, then its up to them to keep an eye on the amount of bonus they receive on top of their deposit. IMO, if you're going to gamble, you need to be all there. If you deposit 20, and get 20 bonus, then you need to know that once you get to 20 left in your account the bonus rules apply.
 

mac72

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You are entirely entitled to your own opinion. What I was saying is that, dealing with player complaints, this comes up on a regular basis. Player starts playing without restrictions, doesn't realise they've crossed into playing with the bonus, and voila, instant bonus term violation. Where the rules apply from the start the player doesn't have to remember to keep an eye out for when the rules start to apply. Mathematically the system the UK have put in place is slightly better for the player (though not by that great a deal imo) if they player keeps an eye on this, but for anyone not paying attention it creates an easy pitfall for the player. Personally, I feel that not having this pitfall outweighs the marginal value gains on offer with the UK system.

TP
Before on slotty/betat your bonus and wagering requirement to turn it into withdrawable cash only started when you started wagering bonus funds and all the other rules kicked in then too (max bet etc.) .This is the way every other UKGC licenced Casino I've played at works since they changed the rules re locking in your real cash when taking a bonus.

All I see different is that your real cash wagering contributes to your ability to cash out your bonus funds, its not limiting how you play with "real cash" it's just an extra in my opinion. Any "pitfalls" for the player when playing with bonus funds at slotty/betat are exactly the same as they are elsewhere (indeed I've found them more lenient, not total confiscation of your entire balance lets say if you place an overbet)
 

ThePOGG

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Before on slotty/betat your bonus and wagering requirement to turn it into withdrawable cash only started when you started wagering bonus funds and all the other rules kicked in then too (max bet etc.) .This is the way every other UKGC licenced Casino I've played at works since they changed the rules re locking in your real cash when taking a bonus.
You are right - if this group are allowing the deposited funds to contribute to the WR then they are dealing with this bonus structure in a different way to the rest of the market. This offsets the increased WR somewhat.

TP
 

brianmon

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If they are specifically wagers from your deposit to contribute to the WR, they're the only operator I'm aware of doing this while using this structure. I'm not questioning you at all it's just an abnormality in the market. I would be interested to see how they then try to manage other bonus terms (like the max bet mentioned above) before the player has placed the first bonus wager (and thus engaged the bonus contract).

TP
Most, if not all the Skill-on-net sites work this way too. Real funds contribute to the wagering
 

SpinUk

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Only bonus funds contribute to wagering at Betat/Slottyvegas. Unless its changed very recently.
 
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