Am I crazy????

I Never Win

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Location
Chicago
Since I live in the USA our online options are limited to precious few when it comes to gambling. And as a resident of Illinois, I have even fewer options. And of those few options 99% run RTG software.

In the past year I have been keeping an unscientific log of my play with BoDog and noticed some very alarming trends. During 2007 I played 17,753 hands of blackjack.

Of those I won 48.6% and had 354 blackjacks to Bodog's 311 blackjacks. My average wager was $14.60. On the surface it seems that BoDog runs a fair and tight ship.

But upon closer inspection the numbers seem to show an overwhelming advantage to the house. For example, when I increased my wager by at least 15% over the previous hand my winning dropped significantly to 35%. If I increased it by 25% it is an unsightly 17%. In other words, Bodog seems to get hot at just the right time almost everytime.

Now we move on to blackjacks. Bodog claims to run an honest game because I have more blackjacks than them 354-311. But my average wager on those blackjacks was $6.25. my average wager on a Bodog blackjack $23.40. Translation, Bodog strikes at just the right time on both sides of the fence.

Then there are those runs where I would lose 15, 16, 17 hands in-a-row where the dealer had 20 or higher on 80% of the hands. This has happened at least a dozen times this year if not more. My longest streak was 12 hands once, 10 hands twice. Get my point.

And finally, the 8 card 21 they threw at me for $500. I had a twenty of course.

I play blackjack to the optimal strategy so bizarre play is not behind these anomolies. I think greed is.:mad:
 

I Never Win

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Location
Chicago
Since I live in the USA our online options are limited to precious few when it comes to gambling. And as a resident of Illinois, I have even fewer options. And of those few options 99% run RTG software.

In the past year I have been keeping an unscientific log of my play with BoDog and noticed some very alarming trends. During 2007 I played 17,753 hands of blackjack.

Of those I won 48.6% and had 354 blackjacks to Bodog's 311 blackjacks. My average wager was $14.60. On the surface it seems that BoDog runs a fair and tight ship.

But upon closer inspection the numbers seem to show an overwhelming advantage to the house. For example, when I increased my wager by at least 15% over the previous hand my winning dropped significantly to 35%. If I increased it by 25% it is an unsightly 17%. In other words, Bodog seems to get hot at just the right time almost everytime.

Now we move on to blackjacks. Bodog claims to run an honest game because I have more blackjacks than them 354-311. But my average wager on those blackjacks was $6.25. my average wager on a Bodog blackjack $23.40. Translation, Bodog strikes at just the right time on both sides of the fence.

Then there are those runs where I would lose 15, 16, 17 hands in-a-row where the dealer had 20 or higher on 80% of the hands. This has happened at least a dozen times this year if not more. My longest streak was 12 hands once, 10 hands twice. Get my point.

And finally, the 8 card 21 they threw at me for $500. I had a twenty of course.

I play blackjack to the optimal strategy so bizarre play is not behind these anomolies. I think greed is.:mad:[/Never play leapfrog with a unicorn]
 

GaryWatson

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 15, 2007
Location
Europe
I think visually it is impossible to spot a discepancy in blackjack. Ive sat on so many real tables to know its just Link Removed ( Old/Invalid) . I played a little on bodog last week. First half a dozen hands, the dealer was on one of those annoying runs against me. It does feel rigged, but even playing live you get the same gut feelings. I highly doubt the live game is rigged but when Im on an unlucky run it feels that way. Im not going to tell you these games online are safe. The truth is I dont know. Sites like AP/UB, avoid like the plague, but I feel Bodog seem far more reputable
 

I Never Win

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Location
Chicago
I have also played tens of thousands of blackjack hands in real casinos and yes, that excruciating cold streak or untimely blackjack has sunk us all. But Bododg accuracy is noth short of astounding. the numbers prove it
 

RobWin

closed account
Joined
Apr 24, 2004
Location
A Vault!
And finally, the 8 card 21 they threw at me for $500. I had a twenty of course.

I play blackjack to the optimal strategy so bizarre play is not behind these anomolies. I think greed is.:mad:

The Wizard of Odds, Michael Shackleford, gives the odds of that happening like 1 in 79,000......:eek:
 

GaryWatson

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 15, 2007
Location
Europe
I cant argue too strongly against blackjack games being rigged. Apparently if you play BJ at Absolute poker, you will win at the end of the month, just before affiliate payments are calculated for the month. Its very simple, miss out the first 3 weeks of play, play in the last week & you will win. At least thats how the stats show when calculating affiliate payments. Carbon Poker are known to do similar. I dont know many people who consistently win at blackjack, online it is likely to be less but they do appear at the end of the month on your stats.
 

RobWin

closed account
Joined
Apr 24, 2004
Location
A Vault!
I cant argue too strongly against blackjack games being rigged. Apparently if you play BJ at Absolute poker, you will win at the end of the month, just before affiliate payments are calculated for the month. Its very simple, miss out the first 3 weeks of play, play in the last week & you will win. At least thats how the stats show when calculating affiliate payments. Carbon Poker are known to do similar. I dont know many people who consistently win at blackjack, online it is likely to be less but they do appear at the end of the month on your stats.

That makes a lot of sense Gary, I believe I tend to notice the same pattern playing Video Poker and Slots at RTG & MG towards the end of the month...
 

steinhaug

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Location
Norway
All I know is last time I wagered at BJ on MG, i played 50 hands before going broke.

I won 14 hands, and 6 were ties, 1 BJ where dealer had 5 BJ. I has 21 once, dealer had +5. Most cards I got was, as usual 3+10 or 10+3 so it's statistically natural to bust.

As usual, unlucky streak... My ass!

Also, looking in the log, I find theese fascinating during gameplay, hands in dealt order:

Me: 10+8
Dealer: 9+10

Me: 10+8
Dealer: 8 + Ace

Me: 10+8
Dealer: 10+10

Me: 8+10
Dealer: 9+10

Me: 4+10+10 (bust)

Me: 10+4+10 (bust)

Me: 9+6+3
Dealer: 10+6+5 (21)

Me: 5+10+8 (bust)

Me: 6+2+9
Dealer: 10+10

Me: 5+6 (double) +4
Dealer: 9+7+10 (bust)

Naturally a dealer streak on 9 is very expensive, and unlucky! Iv'e yet to win 9 times in a row. Not to say +10.

Have a great BJ experience in online casinoes!
 

I Never Win

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Location
Chicago
I am Not Crazy just Stupid

Why do I keep playing this Bullshit game. I am currently in a streak of 18 losses in 20 hands and lost 12 in-a-row at one point. Way to go BoDog. You are reall taking a bite out of me.:eek:
 

bryand

Beach Bum
Joined
Jan 9, 2008
Location
Just Across the Hudson River
To: I Never Win......

Just playing devil's advocate, I'm not sure how any software could be programmed to increase it's winning percentage on higher bets when it doesn't know when or if the player will increase his bet. If the software is programmed to assume a player will increase his bet at some point (based on past trends, etc.), savvy players could reduce their bets after a good run or alternate between high and low bets, outsmarting the software. Instead of reading the other players at a real table of hold em, one could try to outguess the software!
 

GaryWatson

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 15, 2007
Location
Europe
Remove a few high cards from the pack and the house has a bigger edge. program that to switch when someone increases their bets. That may be impossible to catch if they also switch to more low cards when the betting is reduced.

It wouldnt be very noticeable and not to the extremes people think it is but that is a way to manipulate.

Realistically most people increase their bets to the extent they cannot afford a bad run in their bankroll before they go bust.
 

lojo

Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Location
USA
In My Opinion, any software that communicates between the program and the random number generator for anything but to call for a random number, is NOT fair software. (Unless it is explicitly stated that larger bets have a different return percentage than smaller bets, or v-versa)
 

steinhaug

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Location
Norway
Just playing devil's advocate, I'm not sure how any software could be programmed to increase it's winning percentage on higher bets when it doesn't know when or if the player will increase his bet.

But it does, it knows this all the time. The casino communicates with the server for every spin/hand or what so ever. Fast CPU have no problems what so ever doing emense calculations at a fraction of a second going this or that way.
 

lojo

Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Location
USA
But it does, it knows this all the time. The casino communicates with the server for every spin/hand or what so ever. Fast CPU have no problems what so ever doing emense calculations at a fraction of a second going this or that way.

Of course it can be done. But if it occurs and isn't stated - it is crooked, period.

B&M under NVC allow for 4% differential, but players don't know that. Player beware, go to the source, play as an informed player. Unless these slots prominently display this fact in the paytable, they are CROOKED!

Microgaming has a 'fluke' in the older games that 'creates' a different result per LINES bet, not coins bet. (as you helped expose)

Show me a software that gives a different result per coin bet, and I will show you a software that is not fair.

But show me :thumbsup:
 

footdr

Banned User: PITA violations of the Forum Rules
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Location
cyberspace
BASED ON COMMENT ABOVE THEN.......

MG software must not be fair, because it is my experience after playing Mg for 3 years that it does matter how many coins or lines you are playing.

I guarantee you will hit something more frequently if you don't bet max coins and more often than not if I am not hitting anything and drop to say 19 lines instead of 20 I will start hitting.

I only play slots not video poker, I lose my money too fast on VP
 

I Never Win

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Location
Chicago
I thought the customer was right.

I have bitched about Bodog blackjacks seeming stacked blackjack game. well i informed them last nite after a 22 hand losing streak, all bets were $5. It ended when I was down to my last dollar and lo and behold I got a blackjack. Here is an excerpt:

[If you will notice have generated thousands of dollars in wagering in your virtual casino over the pat 16 months. But I am no longer willing to throw my money away because you can talk about your RnG all you want but your blackjack is rigged. Do not tell me about optimal playing strategy etc... I know how to play the game. I also know when i am being fleeced and your blackjack table is ground zero of an uneven playing field. I realize the house has the natural advantage but look at my last 400 hands or so and you will notice that your dealer has ripped of numerous streaks of 18 out 20, or 15 in a row etc... Or getting 21 5 out of 6 hands to start a shoe while it is 13 bust or 12 bust or 16 bust for me./SIZE]

they responded in a typically lame fashion:

You may feel that you are seeing more anomalous hands and although this can seem strange please remember that when compared to the number of hands played in a brick and mortar casino, you are playing a great deal more hands in an online Casino; approximately 16-20 hands per minute versus 2-5 hands. Also keep in mind that the cards are shuffled after every hand. These are the two main differences between land-based and online Casinos and for some that can make the games have a very different feel.

what???? yeah at a land-based casino you can see the freaking cards.

my response:I understand that by shuffling the cards every hand changes the complexion of the game. However, if you notice my hand history I play pretty much by the book and the house edge should be 4-6%. Your edge against me is quite a but higher and you still didn't explain why I win more often when wagering less and lose much more frequently when my wagers increase. That has nothing to do with the speed of the game.

Bodog then spit out a bunch of numbers showing that during the last month i had played 1,345 hands winning 623 and losing 796. I had 72 Blackjacks they had 88. Nice huh? then they stopped responding.
 

ThodorisK

Most Annoying Forum Member of 2007
Joined
Jul 26, 2007
Location
Athens, Greece
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/how-many-online-casinos-cheat.19491/

The above link is a thread of mine about cheating.

Although I have no doubts any more (i.e. I am 100% certain) that all or almost all casinos can cheat, i.e. they have the appropriate software to manipulate the results of a RNG in order to increase the house edge by any exact percentage that they choose, some casinos have done a bad job in disguising their cheating. For example, I am that much certain that VC cheats, that I would bet my life just to earn 100 euros in return.

Lately I am epxeriencing this contradictory phenomenon: I think I am guessing correctly when the next cards are going to be picture rich (by "rich" I mean for example 3 out of the 5 cards of a hand are pictures). How I am guessing this is another story, I think there is a slight trend in the RNG outcomes. Dont get enthousiastic, even if I am correct, nobody can make money out of it, simply because they cheat. So I increase my bet (from 1 dollar to 2 or 3 dollars) when I expect a picture-rich area, but I almost always get a picture and a low card and the dealer always a picture-picture. This keeps happening for thousands of hands. I am not 100% certain that I am indeed guessing more successfully than un-successfully when the picture-rich cards are coming. I have not taken down notes or analysed the hand histories to see if most of my raised bets were in picture-rich hands. Anyway, after playing hundreds of thousands of hands, I think that the more probable case is that my discovery about this trend in the RNG outcomes is correct. But if I am correct, then this is very strange: Since they cheat, I should not be able to predict the picture rich hands, as when I increase my bet, I should be more likely to lose, i.e do not get picture-rich cards. Because when the cards are picture rich, the player has an edge and is bound to win in the long run. Therefore if this is so, then the cheating is very particular, very defined: There is a program that takes the 5-6 next cards ordered by the RNG for the next hand, but it rearranges them in favour of the dealer. Not always of course, but according to the rate specified by the casino manager who decides the rate of cheating = the inrease in the house edge.

I do not care if you believe that I indeed can predict the picture rich areas (I am not 100% sure myself either), but I just wanted to share with you this contradictory phenomenon.

Anyway do not get confused: the proof that they cheat is not that I predict the picture rich areas but i cannot win or that the dealer gets the best combination of picture-rich cards tha I do. If my discovery is false, then changing by bet size from 1 to 3 should make no difference to my overall results, which are very-very below the statistical average in many particular casinos. For example my results in VC are a joke.

Of course I only play cashable bonuses, knowing that I am going to be cheated a little. And sometimes, some casinos do not cheat in the way of increasing the house edge, but in the way of ENFORCING that your profit/loss will be close to the statistical-expected average. Read more on this ENFORCING in my above thread. I failed to make profits lately (well, yeah, extremelly "bad luck", you know).
 

winbig

Keep winning this amount.
Joined
Mar 10, 2005
Location
Pennsylvania
I see you're trying to take back to back titles for most annoying member!


Will you give it up already? You say basically the same thing over and over again in the majority of your posts. We all know your standpoint on this subject too well. I have a suggestion: When you get undeniable proof that casinos are cheating, come back and show us the results.

Why continue beating a dead horse? Are you trying to save us all from the evil cheating casinos? What's your agenda? :rolleyes:

edit: I just noticed your last statement about not making profits lately.

Why don't you just quit gambling online, and save yourself some unneeded stress (as well as money)?
 

winbig

Keep winning this amount.
Joined
Mar 10, 2005
Location
Pennsylvania
Bodog then spit out a bunch of numbers showing that during the last month i had played 1,345 hands winning 623 and losing 796. I had 72 Blackjacks they had 88. Nice huh? then they stopped responding.

How many units did you lose? Did you not double or split any of those 1345 hands? How much did you wager altogether? Did you not push any of those hands?

Besides that, 623 + 796 = 1419. :rolleyes:
 

I Never Win

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Location
Chicago
winbig kiss my ....

max says: see the Forum Rules ...
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1.1 - No "Flaming": Please do not post any messages that harass, insult, belittle, threaten or flame another member or guest. Abusive behavior will not be tolerated and your account may be suspended. Please refrain from potty mouth language.

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suzecat

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 18, 2004
Location
California
Dude "I Never Win" Winbig's comments were directed at Thorodisk, not you. In any event, we try to have better decorum in this forum than to berate anyone for their opinion. Your method of communicating displeasure at Winbig was IMHO, classless.:eek2:
 

funky_seagull

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Location
scotland
I know what you mean about blackjack, I don't really play this anymore, as it was getting too frustrating. Somedays you can do ok, if you don't double your bets when you win or lose, but chose the right moments to split or double-down. But I often encounter moments where the dealer wins too many times in a row, and it makes it impossible to win unless I start doubling up my bets, and I know from bitter past exerience that martingales are too risky and often end with you wishing you hadn't...

... but I have noticed I seem to have good days and bad days. I seem to have times when I do really bad against live dealers as well as computerized ones, and I'm pretty sure they're not cheating. I think it is to do with whether the cards are against you or for you. Somedays no matter what you do it goes wrong and it feels like you will never win again; but other days it's like you have a golden aura and have a euphoric winning streak and can sometimes win more than you have lost previously and that feels good...

anyway blackjack is one of those games I'm not sure about, so tend not to play it anymore.

Think maybe if blackjack is getting really frustrating and you lose more than you win, it is probably better to stop playing it and find another game instead.
 
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