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Accredited Casino new rule suggestion?

Discussion in 'Ask the Meister' started by baabaa006, Nov 5, 2009.

    Nov 5, 2009
  1. baabaa006

    baabaa006 Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Programmer
    Location:
    Australia
    I have noticed a number of threads showing disappointment at maximum cashout limits at Casino's.

    This is not a cap on the amount that can be won from a ND bonus but a maximum daily/weekly limit on the amount that can be withdrawn if you manage to win something.

    Now these same Casino's will happily take unlimited deposits but once you withdraw they say you can make a maximum withdrawal of $nnnn.

    There is no valid logic behind these terms except to try and encourage you to play back your winnings.

    For this I believe any accredited casino should have to honour the full amount of any withdrawal request.
     
    11 people like this.
  2. Nov 5, 2009
  3. Roanan

    Roanan Banned User - abusive flamming - misogynist

    Occupation:
    Geek
    Location:
    Langley, BC...in Canada, eh?
    Land based casinos are required to have enough cash on hand to cover every chip in play on the floor plus all progressives combined. At least that is the case for Nevada and British Columbia casinos. The state/provincial laws makes that a requirement.

    Last time I checked, online casinos weren't based in either jurisdiction and have no such requirements.

    Until draconian laws, such as the UIGEA, get lifted and Canada and the USA can start housing and licensing online casinos and implementing similar requirements to the brick-and-mortars, this will always be a problem.
     
  4. Nov 5, 2009
  5. elscrabinda

    elscrabinda Experienced Member PABnorogue PABnoaccred

    Occupation:
    jvonsofdmpvs
    Location:
    Oxford
    I can see the logic in casinos having max cashout limits, but I think that:

    a) Progressive jackpots should not be subject to such limits as I believe such money is held centrally by the software provider and can therefore be made available instantly

    and b) that if a casino has absurdly low cashout limits, players should come to their own conclusions about the reliability of playing at such a place. Casinos should realise that whilst it may help their cashflow to have such limits it makes them look amateur and short of cash
     
  6. Nov 5, 2009
  7. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    If we were to remove all casinos that have cashout limits from the Accredited Casino section, there would probably be about five left :p.

    You can't compare the banking processes of online casinos with their brick and mortar counterparts since online casinos are just that - online. And they challenges that change daily - money transfers and constant regulatory and banking policy changes. It's a very complex situation and I'm sure most operators would agree with this. You have to be one your toes - especially if you cater to US players.

    As long as the payments are reasonable, I don't see a problem. Progressive jackpot wins that are pooled ought to be exempt - and they are for the casinos listed in here (except for the Wager Works casinos - read the disclaimer).

    Players need to exercise restraint when dealing with these payments and not play them back. That's strictly up to them.
     
  8. Nov 5, 2009
  9. JHV

    JHV <a href="http://www.casinomeister.com/meister_awar

    Occupation:
    Losing a Poker Bankroll on House Edge
    Location:
    Perennial Traveler
    I agree with Bryan but who determines what is the "reasonable" amount? There are Accredited List casinos currently listed who would happily accept $100,000 from me instantly, let me wager $20,000/minute...BUT they have a $500/week payout cap.

    There are definitely money juggling complexities for casinos that most players aren't aware of, but I don't think the above example is acceptable, even if stated somewhere on the website in T&C (just my opinion).
     
  10. Nov 5, 2009
  11. JHV

    JHV <a href="http://www.casinomeister.com/meister_awar

    Occupation:
    Losing a Poker Bankroll on House Edge
    Location:
    Perennial Traveler
    Hijack!

    The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to baabaa006 For This Useful Post:
    JHV (Today), KasinoKing (Today)

    [​IMG]

    :p ;) :cool:

    /hijack.
     
  12. Nov 5, 2009
  13. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    $500 a week? where?

    And I know that if you're a regular player, many of these casinos waive these payments and just send it in one lump sum.
     
    1 person likes this.
  14. Nov 5, 2009
  15. Jasminebed

    Jasminebed Closer to 100 than Birth

    Occupation:
    Not in workforce
    Location:
    Ontario
    Perhaps a solution?

    I do understand the need for online casinos to manage their money. I also understand a player's need to manage theirs.

    For the purposes of Accredited Casinos here at CM, I propose that:

    If a casino has daily/weekly/monthly payment limits, and a withdrawal by a player exceeds those limits, the casino must flush the remaining player balance upon request or pay it in full immediately.​
    .

    It is then up to the casino operator if they will accept deposits from the player while some of the withdrawal is still pending.

    IMO any casino that would refuse deposits from a player that has a (for whatever term) ongoing income from your casino would be crazy.

    I have and sometimes still do play casinos with cashout limits. If I was fortunate enough to be in the position that I was receiving $1,000 weekly from a casino, it would increase my gambling budget quite a bit. My first choice would be the casino I won at I expect, as long as everything was going well.

    It would do a lot to promote my loyalty to have my win handled professionally, even if I couldn't have it all at once. And once the procedure is in place, keep to our arrangement so I don't have to chase you down and send emails and beg for the money I won.

    Players that choose to play at casinos with withdrawal limits must realize these are in place. I wouldn't deposit 10,000 with a casino that will only pay me 4,000 per month.

    Casinos can, and do, make special arrangements for VIPs. I've read so many terms and conditions for so many different casinos, I can't always recall which terms I read where, or the exact wording. But often these terms are phrased in terms of "may limit withdrawals" rather than "will limit withdrawals".

    If you make very big deposits, or even just place very high bets, where you are likely to have a withdrawal that will exceed withdrawal limits, make prior arrangements with the casino, or choose to accept their terms.

    But in the interest of fairness, don't leave that money in the player's account if a flush is requested. This is in regard to withdrawals exceeding a casinos daily/weekly/monthly maximums.

    Casinos should still have the right to set their own policies for reversal times and policies for other withdrawals.
     
  16. Nov 5, 2009
  17. RobWin

    RobWin closed account

    Occupation:
    Who knows?
    Location:
    A Vault!
    Yea, I am curious too which one of the "Accredited Casinos" only offers $500 a week as a cap withdrawal ! ??
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    ____
     
  18. Nov 5, 2009
  19. Tengil

    Tengil Senior Member

    Occupation:
    -
    Location:
    Finland
    English harbour group for Neteller, Moneybookers and Click2Pay.
    You must register/login in order to see the link.
     
    1 person likes this.
  20. Nov 5, 2009
  21. RobWin

    RobWin closed account

    Occupation:
    Who knows?
    Location:
    A Vault!
    Yea, I knew about the designated ewallet limit but still their overall weekly limit is $5,000.00
    ____
    ____
     
  22. Nov 5, 2009
  23. NASHVEGAS

    NASHVEGAS Banned User - flamming, disrespecting admin,

    Occupation:
    LOL
    Location:
    MERS
    Could not agree with you more and have dwelled on this via posts and elsewhere but to no avail at present.

    CM and I will always have to agree to disagree. I am not buying all the defenses,sorry:p

    Ironically, I changed my siggy before your thread/post.

    Also have got gaming (et al) attornies' opinions in the past to see if my thoughts were in left field. Not this unless I am just being told what I wanted to hear.

    If regulation occurs in the US, I and a member of the Senate banking committees' staff do not believe any type of installment payment term(s) would allow for an online casino to be licensed in the US. I have a pretty good feel for this and have reason to believe it is not even a debateable issue among the Senate banking committee but who knows.
     
  24. Nov 5, 2009
  25. NASHVEGAS

    NASHVEGAS Banned User - flamming, disrespecting admin,

    Occupation:
    LOL
    Location:
    MERS
    One of the problems is this issue does not affect many players often so most players are indifferent. Funny how that indifference rapidly disappears when a player becomes subject to this rogue,deliberate term imo.
     
  26. Nov 5, 2009
  27. Tengil

    Tengil Senior Member

    Occupation:
    -
    Location:
    Finland
    True indeed. That was the only reference to 500/week that I could find of the accredited casinos.

    Ridiculously low tough. Then the only option for a player like me would be bank wire and I dont even know if they have an bank account within the SEPA. If they have then it wouldnt be that bad as I could get it without fees and in max 2 days.
     
    1 person likes this.
  28. Nov 5, 2009
  29. JHV

    JHV <a href="http://www.casinomeister.com/meister_awar

    Occupation:
    Losing a Poker Bankroll on House Edge
    Location:
    Perennial Traveler
    Correct re: group. I can't comment extensively at this present time which is why I didn't actually name them straight out - there are ongoing discussions between myself and them that hopefully won't require closure in the public domain but we'll see.

    The complications are not as simple as "just use a different Payout Option" but again, I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt first before getting into specifics.
     
  30. Nov 5, 2009
  31. RobWin

    RobWin closed account

    Occupation:
    Who knows?
    Location:
    A Vault!
    Still their overall weekly withdrawal limit is $5,000.00, not the $500 that you previously stated...correct?

    Just so no one gets confused here.
    ____
    ____
     
  32. Nov 5, 2009
  33. JHV

    JHV <a href="http://www.casinomeister.com/meister_awar

    Occupation:
    Losing a Poker Bankroll on House Edge
    Location:
    Perennial Traveler
    That has proven very incorrect, in my experience. I would like, if I may, to refer you to my above post please - and request we continue discussion of specifics down the track once I've been able to converse more with them on that and other issues. Purely for their benefit as I'm trying to give parties and people more time to explain their positions and actions before (perhaps unfairly) sorting out confusion publicly.

    To be honest, I thought there were 2 or more groups with these low limits on the Accredited List otherwise I wouldn't have used them to make a point in my first post in this thread. I believe the point is valid, of course - and discussion shouldn't necessarily turn to that group.

    To bring us back on topic - yes, there are complications with moving money around. But I cannot imagine what kind of situation creates a legitimate requirement for a large-scale casino operation to limit withdrawals to *those* sorts of sizes. I was more trying to focus on relative wagering issues - 5k / week would be mostly ok for me unless I go robusto or something, but for another player it might be as frustrating or inconvenient as 500/w would be for me. And so on....sure, lines have to be drawn. I think those lines should reflect things like:
    * amount deposited via that method (say I deposit 100k via MB, lose it all, then win 10k - do you think limiting me to 500/w MB is appropriate?)
    * wagering sizes (as mentioned previously - the clause about progressive jackpot wins is great, but if you can wager 20k / minute on Slots [I don't, just saying they'd let me] then limiting to 500/w on all option apart from Bank Wire is appropriate?)
    * probably some other things I'm forgetting cause I'm tired, but I hope I'm making valid points. Well, I know my points are valid. I hope I'm arguing them effectively....
     
  34. Nov 5, 2009
  35. RobWin

    RobWin closed account

    Occupation:
    Who knows?
    Location:
    A Vault!
    You are in fact making good valid points as far as the web ewallets are concerned BUT the original problem that I and also Bryan had with your post was the broad statement you made that said:

    Which as you and I and others can all clearly see is not exactly factual.

    View attachment 19634
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2010
  36. Nov 5, 2009
  37. JHV

    JHV <a href="http://www.casinomeister.com/meister_awar

    Occupation:
    Losing a Poker Bankroll on House Edge
    Location:
    Perennial Traveler
    What you and I and others can all see in the screenshot above I've basically just told you is not factual at all, in my experience. And I kindly request you for a third time to let me give them the benefit of the doubt and hear them out, before we break into discussion on it.

    I merely used 500/w as an example of the lowest caps I'd seen, I wasn't trying to direct criticism onto this group. But if you insist on attacking this group, let's not talk about my experience just yet, but we can discuss broader issues such as what possible scenario can have developed to create a 500/w cap rule for the largest payment processors in the world.
     
  38. Nov 5, 2009
  39. RobWin

    RobWin closed account

    Occupation:
    Who knows?
    Location:
    A Vault!
    That may well be true But you are referring to their ewallet processing and you alluded to that fact in your original post as you well know, hence the reason I said you were making a non-factual Broad statement...lets not confuse those two seperate issues here, please!

    Attacking this group? Are you serious? I promote this group! That's a bit of a cheesy statement don't you think since I am merely pointing out the fact of their weekly withdrawal max NOT being $500 as you stated in your original broad statement. Why are you trying to mix up these two into semantics?

    I'm actually not interested in talking about your individual experiences at all, But rather the Broad statement regarding their weekly withdrawal max that you originally made. If you had stated that their weekly withdrawal max to ewallets was $500 then most likely you and I would not even be trading posts at the moment..;)
    ____
    ____
     
    2 people like this.

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