Accredited Casino new rule suggestion?

baabaa006

Experienced Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2008
Location
Australia
I have noticed a number of threads showing disappointment at maximum cashout limits at Casino's.

This is not a cap on the amount that can be won from a ND bonus but a maximum daily/weekly limit on the amount that can be withdrawn if you manage to win something.

Now these same Casino's will happily take unlimited deposits but once you withdraw they say you can make a maximum withdrawal of $nnnn.

There is no valid logic behind these terms except to try and encourage you to play back your winnings.

For this I believe any accredited casino should have to honour the full amount of any withdrawal request.
 

Roanan

Banned User - abusive flamming - misogynist
Joined
Oct 6, 2009
Location
Langley, BC...in Canada, eh?
I have noticed a number of threads showing disappointment at maximum cashout limits at Casino's.

This is not a cap on the amount that can be won from a ND bonus but a maximum daily/weekly limit on the amount that can be withdrawn if you manage to win something.

Now these same Casino's will happily take unlimited deposits but once you withdraw they say you can make a maximum withdrawal of $nnnn.

There is no valid logic behind these terms except to try and encourage you to play back your winnings.

For this I believe any accredited casino should have to honour the full amount of any withdrawal request.
Land based casinos are required to have enough cash on hand to cover every chip in play on the floor plus all progressives combined. At least that is the case for Nevada and British Columbia casinos. The state/provincial laws makes that a requirement.

Last time I checked, online casinos weren't based in either jurisdiction and have no such requirements.

Until draconian laws, such as the UIGEA, get lifted and Canada and the USA can start housing and licensing online casinos and implementing similar requirements to the brick-and-mortars, this will always be a problem.
 

elscrabinda

Full Member
PABnoaccred
PABnorogue
Joined
Oct 20, 2004
Location
Oxford
I can see the logic in casinos having max cashout limits, but I think that:

a) Progressive jackpots should not be subject to such limits as I believe such money is held centrally by the software provider and can therefore be made available instantly

and b) that if a casino has absurdly low cashout limits, players should come to their own conclusions about the reliability of playing at such a place. Casinos should realise that whilst it may help their cashflow to have such limits it makes them look amateur and short of cash
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
If we were to remove all casinos that have cashout limits from the Accredited Casino section, there would probably be about five left :p.

You can't compare the banking processes of online casinos with their brick and mortar counterparts since online casinos are just that - online. And they challenges that change daily - money transfers and constant regulatory and banking policy changes. It's a very complex situation and I'm sure most operators would agree with this. You have to be one your toes - especially if you cater to US players.

As long as the payments are reasonable, I don't see a problem. Progressive jackpot wins that are pooled ought to be exempt - and they are for the casinos listed in here (except for the Wager Works casinos - read the disclaimer).

Players need to exercise restraint when dealing with these payments and not play them back. That's strictly up to them.
 

JHV

<a href="http://www.casinomeister.com/meister_awar
Joined
Jun 2, 2005
Location
Perennial Traveler
I agree with Bryan but who determines what is the "reasonable" amount? There are Accredited List casinos currently listed who would happily accept $100,000 from me instantly, let me wager $20,000/minute...BUT they have a $500/week payout cap.

There are definitely money juggling complexities for casinos that most players aren't aware of, but I don't think the above example is acceptable, even if stated somewhere on the website in T&C (just my opinion).
 

JHV

<a href="http://www.casinomeister.com/meister_awar
Joined
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Location
Perennial Traveler
Hijack!

The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to baabaa006 For This Useful Post:
JHV (Today), KasinoKing (Today)



:p ;) :cool:

/hijack.
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
I agree with Bryan but who determines what is the "reasonable" amount? There are Accredited List casinos currently listed who would happily accept $100,000 from me instantly, let me wager $20,000/minute...BUT they have a $500/week payout cap.

There are definitely money juggling complexities for casinos that most players aren't aware of, but I don't think the above example is acceptable, even if stated somewhere on the website in T&C (just my opinion).
$500 a week? where?

And I know that if you're a regular player, many of these casinos waive these payments and just send it in one lump sum.
 

Jasminebed

Game old gal
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Location
Ontario
Perhaps a solution?

I do understand the need for online casinos to manage their money. I also understand a player's need to manage theirs.

For the purposes of Accredited Casinos here at CM, I propose that:

If a casino has daily/weekly/monthly payment limits, and a withdrawal by a player exceeds those limits, the casino must flush the remaining player balance upon request or pay it in full immediately.​
.

It is then up to the casino operator if they will accept deposits from the player while some of the withdrawal is still pending.

IMO any casino that would refuse deposits from a player that has a (for whatever term) ongoing income from your casino would be crazy.

I have and sometimes still do play casinos with cashout limits. If I was fortunate enough to be in the position that I was receiving $1,000 weekly from a casino, it would increase my gambling budget quite a bit. My first choice would be the casino I won at I expect, as long as everything was going well.

It would do a lot to promote my loyalty to have my win handled professionally, even if I couldn't have it all at once. And once the procedure is in place, keep to our arrangement so I don't have to chase you down and send emails and beg for the money I won.

Players that choose to play at casinos with withdrawal limits must realize these are in place. I wouldn't deposit 10,000 with a casino that will only pay me 4,000 per month.

Casinos can, and do, make special arrangements for VIPs. I've read so many terms and conditions for so many different casinos, I can't always recall which terms I read where, or the exact wording. But often these terms are phrased in terms of "may limit withdrawals" rather than "will limit withdrawals".

If you make very big deposits, or even just place very high bets, where you are likely to have a withdrawal that will exceed withdrawal limits, make prior arrangements with the casino, or choose to accept their terms.

But in the interest of fairness, don't leave that money in the player's account if a flush is requested. This is in regard to withdrawals exceeding a casinos daily/weekly/monthly maximums.

Casinos should still have the right to set their own policies for reversal times and policies for other withdrawals.
 

NASHVEGAS

Banned User - flamming, disrespecting admin,
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Location
MERS
I have noticed a number of threads showing disappointment at maximum cashout limits at Casino's.

This is not a cap on the amount that can be won from a ND bonus but a maximum daily/weekly limit on the amount that can be withdrawn if you manage to win something.

Now these same Casino's will happily take unlimited deposits but once you withdraw they say you can make a maximum withdrawal of $nnnn.

There is no valid logic behind these terms except to try and encourage you to play back your winnings.

For this I believe any accredited casino should have to honour the full amount of any withdrawal request.
Could not agree with you more and have dwelled on this via posts and elsewhere but to no avail at present.

CM and I will always have to agree to disagree. I am not buying all the defenses,sorry:p

Ironically, I changed my siggy before your thread/post.

Also have got gaming (et al) attornies' opinions in the past to see if my thoughts were in left field. Not this unless I am just being told what I wanted to hear.

If regulation occurs in the US, I and a member of the Senate banking committees' staff do not believe any type of installment payment term(s) would allow for an online casino to be licensed in the US. I have a pretty good feel for this and have reason to believe it is not even a debateable issue among the Senate banking committee but who knows.
 

NASHVEGAS

Banned User - flamming, disrespecting admin,
Joined
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Location
MERS
One of the problems is this issue does not affect many players often so most players are indifferent. Funny how that indifference rapidly disappears when a player becomes subject to this rogue,deliberate term imo.
 

Tengil

Senior Member
Joined
May 4, 2006
Location
Finland
Yea, I knew about the designated ewallet limit but still their overall weekly limit is $5,000.00
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True indeed. That was the only reference to 500/week that I could find of the accredited casinos.

Ridiculously low tough. Then the only option for a player like me would be bank wire and I dont even know if they have an bank account within the SEPA. If they have then it wouldnt be that bad as I could get it without fees and in max 2 days.
 

JHV

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Correct re: group. I can't comment extensively at this present time which is why I didn't actually name them straight out - there are ongoing discussions between myself and them that hopefully won't require closure in the public domain but we'll see.

The complications are not as simple as "just use a different Payout Option" but again, I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt first before getting into specifics.
 

RobWin

closed account
Joined
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Location
A Vault!
Correct re: group. I can't comment extensively at this present time which is why I didn't actually name them straight out - there are ongoing discussions between myself and them that hopefully won't require closure in the public domain but we'll see.

The complications are not as simple as "just use a different Payout Option" but again, I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt first before getting into specifics.
Still their overall weekly withdrawal limit is $5,000.00, not the $500 that you previously stated...correct?

Just so no one gets confused here.
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JHV

<a href="http://www.casinomeister.com/meister_awar
Joined
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Location
Perennial Traveler
Still their overall weekly withdrawal limit is $5,000.00, not the $500 that you previously stated...correct?
That has proven very incorrect, in my experience. I would like, if I may, to refer you to my above post please - and request we continue discussion of specifics down the track once I've been able to converse more with them on that and other issues. Purely for their benefit as I'm trying to give parties and people more time to explain their positions and actions before (perhaps unfairly) sorting out confusion publicly.

To be honest, I thought there were 2 or more groups with these low limits on the Accredited List otherwise I wouldn't have used them to make a point in my first post in this thread. I believe the point is valid, of course - and discussion shouldn't necessarily turn to that group.

To bring us back on topic - yes, there are complications with moving money around. But I cannot imagine what kind of situation creates a legitimate requirement for a large-scale casino operation to limit withdrawals to *those* sorts of sizes. I was more trying to focus on relative wagering issues - 5k / week would be mostly ok for me unless I go robusto or something, but for another player it might be as frustrating or inconvenient as 500/w would be for me. And so on....sure, lines have to be drawn. I think those lines should reflect things like:
* amount deposited via that method (say I deposit 100k via MB, lose it all, then win 10k - do you think limiting me to 500/w MB is appropriate?)
* wagering sizes (as mentioned previously - the clause about progressive jackpot wins is great, but if you can wager 20k / minute on Slots [I don't, just saying they'd let me] then limiting to 500/w on all option apart from Bank Wire is appropriate?)
* probably some other things I'm forgetting cause I'm tired, but I hope I'm making valid points. Well, I know my points are valid. I hope I'm arguing them effectively....
 

RobWin

closed account
Joined
Apr 24, 2004
Location
A Vault!
That has proven very incorrect, in my experience. I would like, if I may, to refer you to my above post please - and request we continue discussion of specifics down the track once I've been able to converse more with them on that and other issues. Purely for their benefit as I'm trying to give parties and people more time to explain their positions and actions before (perhaps unfairly) sorting out confusion publicly.

To be honest, I thought there were 2 or more groups with these low limits on the Accredited List otherwise I wouldn't have used them to make a point in my first post in this thread. I believe the point is valid, of course - and discussion shouldn't necessarily turn to that group.

To bring us back on topic - yes, there are complications with moving money around. But I cannot imagine what kind of situation creates a legitimate requirement for a large-scale casino operation to limit withdrawals to *those* sorts of sizes. I was more trying to focus on relative wagering issues - 5k / week would be mostly ok for me unless I go robusto or something, but for another player it might be as frustrating or inconvenient as 500/w would be for me. And so on....sure, lines have to be drawn. I think those lines should reflect things like:
* amount deposited via that method (say I deposit 100k via MB, lose it all, then win 10k - do you think limiting me to 500/w MB is appropriate?)
* wagering sizes (as mentioned previously - the clause about progressive jackpot wins is great, but if you can wager 20k / minute on Slots [I don't, just saying they'd let me] then limiting to 500/w on all option apart from Bank Wire is appropriate?)
* probably some other things I'm forgetting cause I'm tired, but I hope I'm making valid points. Well, I know my points are valid. I hope I'm arguing them effectively....
You are in fact making good valid points as far as the web ewallets are concerned BUT the original problem that I and also Bryan had with your post was the broad statement you made that said:

Originally Posted by JHV View Post
There are Accredited List casinos currently listed who would happily accept $100,000 from me instantly, let me wager $20,000/minute...BUT they have a $500/week payout cap.
Which as you and I and others can all clearly see is not exactly factual.

View attachment 19634
 
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JHV

<a href="http://www.casinomeister.com/meister_awar
Joined
Jun 2, 2005
Location
Perennial Traveler
You are in fact making good valid points as far as the web ewallets are concerned BUT the original problem that I and also Bryan had with your post was the broad statement you made that said:



Which as you and I and others can all clearly see is not exactly factual.

View attachment 19634
What you and I and others can all see in the screenshot above I've basically just told you is not factual at all, in my experience. And I kindly request you for a third time to let me give them the benefit of the doubt and hear them out, before we break into discussion on it.

I merely used 500/w as an example of the lowest caps I'd seen, I wasn't trying to direct criticism onto this group. But if you insist on attacking this group, let's not talk about my experience just yet, but we can discuss broader issues such as what possible scenario can have developed to create a 500/w cap rule for the largest payment processors in the world.
 

RobWin

closed account
Joined
Apr 24, 2004
Location
A Vault!
What you and I and others can all see in the screenshot above I've basically just told you is not factual at all, in my experience.
That may well be true But you are referring to their ewallet processing and you alluded to that fact in your original post as you well know, hence the reason I said you were making a non-factual Broad statement...lets not confuse those two seperate issues here, please!

I merely used 500/w as an example of the lowest caps I'd seen, I wasn't trying to direct criticism onto this group. But if you insist on attacking this group,
Attacking this group? Are you serious? I promote this group! That's a bit of a cheesy statement don't you think since I am merely pointing out the fact of their weekly withdrawal max NOT being $500 as you stated in your original broad statement. Why are you trying to mix up these two into semantics?

Let's not talk about my experience just yet, but we can discuss broader issues such as what possible scenario can have developed to create a 500/w cap rule for the largest payment processors in the world.
I'm actually not interested in talking about your individual experiences at all, But rather the Broad statement regarding their weekly withdrawal max that you originally made. If you had stated that their weekly withdrawal max to ewallets was $500 then most likely you and I would not even be trading posts at the moment..;)
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