3Dice aff. question: should I be paid or not?

SlotMonster

Twitch Streamer - Affiliate
webmeister
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Location
Belarus
Hello, everyone!

The question I'm going to ask is pretty simple. I will just tell my point of view with some facts and email, and then I would like to hear your opinion.

I've been promoting 3Dice for several months, without much luck to be honest, my website isn't getting too many visitors per day :oops: Anyway, I have their banner at my site. My CPA payment plan clearly states that (I quote):
150$ CPA when players deposits more than $50 and accumulates 20 or more comppoints.
Very simple.

Previously I contacted 3Dice aff manager - Karen, to clarify how much in $$$ will be those 20 comp points, and she replied that for every $20 wagered player receives 1 comp point. This was also stated at 3Dice cashier iirc.

Hello

For every $/€/£ 20 wager contribution you'll get 1 comp point.

Hope this helps.

Karen

Few days ago a co-worker, knowing that I'm an affiliate, asked me if she could get a decent bonus at my site, because she wanted to deposit and play a little. I was glad to help her and suggested to try 3Dice casino with their 110% first deposit bonus. She said that she is going to deposit about $20, but I begged her to deposit $50 or more just to see how this CPA plan will work out. She agreed to deposit $55.

So, she deposited $55 through her CC, took 110% bonus and played it out. As she said, it was "a lot of fun and I want to play here again". Then I asked her to contact Support to clarify how much actually she wagered, and CS rep - Anna, said that she wagered $405.22, according to their stats.

After few days I logged in my aff account to see that player wasn't converted. So I contacted Karen again to get some info about it. Here is what she sent me back.

Hello Viktar,
You have one player that has made a deposit. The player has not yet
converted. This is information you can see when you log into your
affiliate account.
Please feel free to contact me if you need any addition information.
Kind Regards,
Karen
Affiliate Account Manager

That was a bit confusing, because as I can see, this player (my co-worker) fully met to all conditions (more than $50 dep + 20 comp points), so I sent her another email.

Hello, Karen!

Thank you for your reply. Could you please clarify what does it mean
"has not yet converted"? Thanks in advance!

Here is what she replied:

Your player that has deposited has not earned 20 comp points yet. When the
player meets that requirement it will convert. Also as a side note. Casino Support is unable to help you with your affiliate questions. Your best bet is to email me. I check my mail several times a day and will reply to your inquiries.

Have a great day and talk to you soon!
Karen
Affiliate Manager

So I asked for confirmation:

OK, thanks Karen.

iirc, player has to wager 20 comppoints, which means $20 for every comp point, or $400 right?

Please confirm.

Viktar.

Her reply was:

Hello Viktar

As I explained in our chat conversation the player needs to deposit $50
and earn 20 comp points. It is specified in our Terms and Conditions the
player needs to deposit and earn comp points. When the player deposits $50
and earns comp points we pay the cpa.

Kindest Regards,

Karen
Affiliate Account Manager

I had strange feeling that we are starting to write each other the same as we did before. Here is my reply to her.

Karen,

But player DID make a deposit of $55, and wagered more than $400! And we already discussed it! And in you T&C no any single word about player
does wagers comp points only if he/she didn't take a bonus!


Viktar.

She then replied

Hello Viktar,
The amount she wagered has no bearing on the terms and conditions. The
player needs to earn 20 comp points for the account to convert.
Regards,
Karen

This "has no bearing on the terms and conditions" confused me a little...

My next email was:

Karen,
She wagered $405.22 according to stats (she contacted Support to make
sure).
From our chat with you, you clearly said that (I quote):
>> Karen: yes its $20 = 1 comp point
So, doing simple math we can find out that 20 comp points = $400.
And again, there no any word about if player uses a bonus - he/she
won't earn comp points.
Regards,
Viktar.

P.S. I think I should start a thread about this issue at
Casinomeister. Would you mind if I post your replies as well as my
emails?

She didn't mind, btw.

Hello Viktar,

Yes $20 does equal 1 comp point but a player does not accumulate comp
points if they are playing on a bonus.
Therefore your player did not
accumulate comp points until the wagering requirement was completed.

Your player will not convert until this requirement has been met.

Karen

As I said before, nowhere in T&Cs (neither on website nor at my aff account) I didn't found any information about player shouldn't take bonus if they want to earn comp points.

So I replied her back.

Karen,

>> Yes $20 does equal 1 comp point but a player does not accumulate comp
> points if they are playing on a bonus. Therefore your player did not
> accumulate comp points until the wagering requirement was completed.

Could you please provide me we with the link (or quote) to T&C where
it's pointed?

Thanks,
Viktar.


Her reply was

Hello Viktar,

Yes I do mind if you post my emails at casinomeister. Why would you? I
have nothing to hide but I dont understand why you need to post my
correspondence.

Karen

I sent her another email

Karen,

Thank you for your email. And you completely ignored my question:

>>> Yes $20 does equal 1 comp point but a player does not accumulate comp
>> points if they are playing on a bonus. Therefore your player did not
>> accumulate comp points until the wagering requirement was completed.

> Could you please provide me we with the link (or quote) to T&C where
> it's pointed?

Viktar.

I'm going to post it at CM as well.

So, the simple question is: should I be paid for this player or not?

P.S. I still have chat transcripts and emails, so can provide them as per request.
 

metaxa

Full Member
webmeister
Joined
Aug 5, 2004
Location
London
I find it rude that you post Karen's Emails here. You could have described your problem with 3Dice much shorter, without posting emails from a person who not have agreed to it.

If the T&C state, that a player does not accumulate Comp-Points if playing with bonus money, you should not be entitled for the CPA payment.

You should also see, its always a bit tricky for the Casinos to pay CPA, when only 1 Player hits the Affiliate Account, which deposited just a little over the minimum.
 

SlotMonster

Twitch Streamer - Affiliate
webmeister
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Location
Belarus
Please reread my post again.
1. ooops...
2. I said it many times - there is no information in T&C
 

Nate

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
webmeister
CAG
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Location
Cyberspace
Please reread my post again.

1. She agreed if I'll post it here.
2. I said it many times - there is no information in T&C

Hey,

I dont know much about affiliates. What I can say is that she DID NOT agree...

"Hello Viktar,

Yes I do mind if you post my emails at casinomeister. Why would you? I
have nothing to hide but I dont understand why you need to post my
correspondence.

Karen"

In any event, if the T&C's do not state that on the affiliate page, then im sure they will look into it for you?

Nate
 

SlotMonster

Twitch Streamer - Affiliate
webmeister
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Location
Belarus
I misunderstood Karen's email, and didn't see that she DO mind. My fault, and I'm sorry for this. But anyway I want to receive a reply from 3Dice.
 

SlotMonster

Twitch Streamer - Affiliate
webmeister
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Location
Belarus
Hey,

In any event, if the T&C's do not state that on the affiliate page, then im sure they will look into it for you?

Nate

They are not going, I think...
Karen replied that there is nothing wrong with this player and with aff. program.
 

TopAff

Banned User - exploiting the forum
Joined
Nov 28, 2008
Location
World
Hello, everyone!

The question I'm going to ask is pretty simple. I will just tell my point of view with some facts and email, and then I would like to hear your opinion.

I've been promoting 3Dice for several months, without much luck to be honest, my website isn't getting too many visitors per day :oops: Anyway, I have their banner at my site. My CPA payment plan clearly states that (I quote): Very simple.

Previously I contacted 3Dice aff manager - Karen, to clarify how much in $$$ will be those 20 comp points, and she replied that for every $20 wagered player receives 1 comp point. This was also stated at 3Dice cashier iirc.



Few days ago a co-worker, knowing that I'm an affiliate, asked me if she could get a decent bonus at my site, because she wanted to deposit and play a little. I was glad to help her and suggested to try 3Dice casino with their 110% first deposit bonus. She said that she is going to deposit about $20, but I begged her to deposit $50 or more just to see how this CPA plan will work out. She agreed to deposit $55.

So, she deposited $55 through her CC, took 110% bonus and played it out. As she said, it was "a lot of fun and I want to play here again". Then I asked her to contact Support to clarify how much actually she wagered, and CS rep - Anna, said that she wagered $405.22, according to their stats.

After few days I logged in my aff account to see that player wasn't converted. So I contacted Karen again to get some info about it. Here is what she sent me back.



That was a bit confusing, because as I can see, this player (my co-worker) fully met to all conditions (more than $50 dep + 20 comp points), so I sent her another email.



Here is what she replied:



So I asked for confirmation:



Her reply was:



I had strange feeling that we are starting to write each other the same as we did before. Here is my reply to her.



She then replied



This "has no bearing on the terms and conditions" confused me a little...

My next email was:



She didn't mind, btw.



As I said before, nowhere in T&Cs (neither on website nor at my aff account) I didn't found any information about player shouldn't take bonus if they want to earn comp points.

So I replied her back.




Her reply was



I sent her another email



So, the simple question is: should I be paid for this player or not?

P.S. I still have chat transcripts and emails, so can provide them as per request.

This is clear fraud.. you tell your friend to deposit and provide a link and get yourself 150$ and give to your friend 55$ back??
 

3Dice

I-Gaming Industry Representative
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Location
-
Hi Slotmonster,

Please take a close look at our
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
.

All play from realmoney deposits will earn you comppoints. The contribution each game has depends on the game and is set to 100% for all Slots and Solitaire; 50% for all Roulettes, Caribbean Stud, Texas Hold'em and ThreeCard Poker, Sicbo and Casino War; 25% for Baccarat, Craps and Paigow poker; 10% for Blackjack; 5% for All video and multihand pokers. When playing a deposit with a bonus, the deposit to bonus ratio will be applied to that contribution.

The line in red means that while the WR of a bonus is active, you will only earn comp points on the deposit part. (if you play with a 100% bonus, then you'll earn half the comppoints since half your balance is deposit / half is bonus).

The bonus terms including that term are displayed clearly to the players at 3Dice every single time they claim a bonus.

Furthermore, if your friend enjoyed playing at 3Dice, and she returns even just once, chances are good that she will make the comp point requirement and earn you your first CPA conversion at 3Dice.

Affiliates with more mileage will easily see that for this CPA deal - those requirements are more than reasonable - in fact - they imply and illustrate the trust 3Dice has in the affiliates it allows - a malicious affiliate could easily setup an abuse scheme with these conditions.

Accumulating 20 comp points is clearly stated in our affiliate agreement, and that comp points are weighted with a per game and a deposit/bonus ratio is also clearly documented. I don't see how there can be any discussion over this.

As an affiliate you choose to be part of the marketing team for 3Dice. In that role I strongly suggest that next time you feel like making a public post you send me a pm or an email first. It seems to me that this could have been handled in seconds. Surely that would be the first thing to do when one of the players you refer has a question .. contact the manager. In your role as affiliate - a post like this is completely unacceptable.

Enzo
 

rainmaker

I'm not a penguin
Joined
Dec 28, 2010
Location
-
Hi Slotmonster,

Please take a close look at our
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
.



The line in red means that while the WR of a bonus is active, you will only earn comp points on the deposit part. (if you play with a 100% bonus, then you'll earn half the comppoints since half your balance is deposit / half is bonus).

The bonus terms including that term are displayed clearly to the players at 3Dice every single time they claim a bonus.

Furthermore, if your friend enjoyed playing at 3Dice, and she returns even just once, chances are good that she will make the comp point requirement and earn you your first CPA conversion at 3Dice.

Affiliates with more mileage will easily see that for this CPA deal - those requirements are more than reasonable - in fact - they imply and illustrate the trust 3Dice has in the affiliates it allows - a malicious affiliate could easily setup an abuse scheme with these conditions.

Accumulating 20 comp points is clearly stated in our affiliate agreement, and that comp points are weighted with a per game and a deposit/bonus ratio is also clearly documented. I don't see how there can be any discussion over this.

As an affiliate you choose to be part of the marketing team for 3Dice. In that role I strongly suggest that next time you feel like making a public post you send me a pm or an email first. It seems to me that this could have been handled in seconds. Surely that would be the first thing to do when one of the players you refer has a question .. contact the manager. In your role as affiliate - a post like this is completely unacceptable. Enzo


I agree. As an affiliate, you have another role and should not post a simple case like this on a forum. As a player, you can bitch & complain, but it requires a more professional way of dealing with issues as an affiliate.

No case.
 

KasinoKing

WebMeister & Slotaholic..
webmeister
PABnonaccred
CAG
MM
Joined
Aug 25, 2004
Location
Bexhill on sea, England
So, the simple question is: should I be paid for this player or not?
Not. Because the requirements aren't met yet.
And I agree that you should NOT have posted the e-mails either - that was a mistake. :(

Regarding 3Dice - I am on the verge of removing them from all my sites; I would advise you do the same - I just can't recommend promoting them. I will PM you the reasons why...

KK
 

SlotMonster

Twitch Streamer - Affiliate
webmeister
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Location
Belarus
This is clear fraud.. you tell your friend to deposit and provide a link and get yourself 150$ and give to your friend 55$ back??

You can name it as you wish, but if your friend or co-worker asks if he or she want to deposit through your site - would you deny?

Hi Slotmonster,

Please take a close look at our
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
.

As an affiliate you choose to be part of the marketing team for 3Dice. In that role I strongly suggest that next time you feel like making a public post you send me a pm or an email first. It seems to me that this could have been handled in seconds. Surely that would be the first thing to do when one of the players you refer has a question .. contact the manager. In your role as affiliate - a post like this is completely unacceptable.

Enzo

Thanks for providing me with this link, Enzo. It's completely my fault that I didn't read T&C carefully. I contacted Karen regarding this issue through Casino Live Chat, and she also said that she will discuss this issue wit you, but you were away for a weekend.



Agree. I apologize for any inconvenience.
 

rainmaker

I'm not a penguin
Joined
Dec 28, 2010
Location
-
You can name it as you wish, but if your friend or co-worker asks if he or she want to deposit through your site - would you deny?



Thanks for providing me with this link, Enzo. It's completely my fault that I didn't read T&C carefully. I contacted Karen regarding this issue through Casino Live Chat, and she also said that she will discuss this issue wit you, but you were away for a weekend.




Agree. I apologize for any inconvenience.


That was a good post mister SlotMonster. Instead of trying to further discuss a "lost" case, you admite that you were wrong and apologises. More people should have done this. Way to go :thumbsup:
 

petro

Dormant account, per user request
PABaccred
PABnoaccred2
Joined
Nov 28, 2010
Location
Narnia
I was highly entertained by this topic. :)
I thought SlotMonster had it there for a minute.
Great also to see a manager who is on the ball with casino complaints. :notworthy
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
This is an affiliate issue, which should be moved to the Webmeister's Marketing section - if you're not a registered webmaster, you ought to do so. :D
 

SlotMonster

Twitch Streamer - Affiliate
webmeister
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Location
Belarus
Thanks :)
With all due respect, I think I won't be promoting 3Dice anymore, at least until they add rev. share.
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland

GGW Laurie

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
Joined
Jun 16, 2006
Location
In the Beautiful South !!
Thanks :)
With all due respect, I think I won't be promoting 3Dice anymore, at least until they add rev. share.

I wouldnt hold my breath on that one SM;)

3 Dice is a great casino, you cant beat the customer support but the affiliate program lacks unless your one of the few sites that brings in players by the droves.

It seems every player and his brother has a 3 Dice account, this is from other player drives they have in house, bring in a friend and get 10.00 ect.

I do like the promo material they offer, I just wish they were more into visiting other sites instead of just the ones they think will bring them more players. We have invited Enzo many times, guess we are not deserving enough of his time:p

Anyhoo, they are a good casino and are deserving of the CM awards this year and for that congrats to the 3 Dice Team:thumbsup:


Laurie
 

SlotMonster

Twitch Streamer - Affiliate
webmeister
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Location
Belarus
But this is a top casino - Best Casino 2010 US Friendly. You're doing your players a disservice by not promoting them. There are other options besides rev share.

You are absolutely right, but 3Dice - Top Casino for players, not for affiliates. JMO. And their CPA plan is faaar from being perfect.
 

GGW Laurie

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
Joined
Jun 16, 2006
Location
In the Beautiful South !!
You are absolutely right, but 3Dice - Top Casino for players, not for affiliates. JMO. And their CPA plan is faaar from being perfect.

Players should always come first imo, so this is a plus as im a player as well:thumbsup:

Maybe Enzo will look into Rev Share or come up with something better for those that put alot of hard work and time into promoting them.


Laurie
 

ergopro

Experienced Member
PABnononaccred
Joined
Apr 29, 2004
Regarding 3Dice - I am on the verge of removing them from all my sites; I would advise you do the same - I just can't recommend promoting them. I will PM you the reasons why...

KK

Would you mind sharing this issue further?
 
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