32 Red Very Disappointed !

[spearmaster]

Geez, HenryVII... you read one response out of many in that chat and you make it out to be a major disaster. It's not like she said "Well, if you won't help, I can't help" or anything of the sort - everything else she said was in a uniform polite manner and she made it clear that they were appreciative of the OPs assistance a number of times.

 

[Macgyver]

Sometimes the affiliates on here are just sooo obvious.

And sometimes the ones too quick to judge on here are even more obvious.

 

[Wildfire7]

Hi Brutaldeluxe,

All you had to do was take a screenshot for them, edit some details and email it them. Even if that small task took you half an hour, it would still have saved you more time than the hours you have probably spent writing about it on this thread!

Mountains and mole hills spring to mind here!
Get over it!
Happy Christmas

Wildfire7

 

[jerrylee]

Melissa imo acted professionally & polite, she's not in accounting so I'd say she's following a standard operational protocol.
It is Christmas after all & most casinos are functioning on a skeleton staff.

+1 Trezz. That's exactly how casinos are working during the holidays, CS mostly, operations scaled back just to the essential services and finance department off. Usually those folks work on business days.
Melissa can perform simple checks using her tools, but digging into the financial transactions beyond seeing when deposits and cashouts were requested is likely beyond her scope.

Let's be reasonable players, think about it from the casino's perspective for a change

 

[jerrylee]

....
Kenneth: so you want a screen grab of that then or ?
Melissa: yes thats great
Melissa: thank you ever so much
Melissa: and have a lovely xmas
Kenneth: Can't your payments department jsut check if it has gone through twice ?
Melissa: we shall contact you via email and let you know as soon as possible,
Melissa: no we need this to confirm
Kenneth: Well I would rather not be showing my entire bank statement to people
Kenneth: Are you trying to tell me you can';t tell if you have paid out the same amount twice without me sending a screen grab ?
Melissa: you can erase the information you do not want us to see
Kenneth: not gonna be much left then really
Melissa: Thank you, one moment please
Kenneth: I don't understand why you need a screen grab. Why can't you tell how much money has been paid out ?
Melissa: we have sent this once, and the bank may have duplicated this so we need your documents so
Melissa: that we can clarify for the banks side!
Kenneth: Right so you are saying it's a fault of my bank then ?
Melissa: hello?
Melissa: no our bank!
Melissa: so pls send this as soon as possible and our payments team will be in touch with you
Melissa: Is there anything else I can help with?
Kenneth: Well I don't see why you can't jsut check your bank account in the bank and see !
Melissa: its bank holiday
Melissa: if you are not prepared to help us by sending this then i shall just inform the payments dept of your call and they can take this up with you
Kenneth: Ok so you know wait till it isn't. I'm gonn ahave to take two seperate screen grabs and blank everything on each one which is gonan take quite some time
Melissa: not a problem
Melissa: use a highlighter and fax this might be easier
Melissa: but if not then do this as soon as you can
Melissa: thank you
Melissa: and bye for now
Kenneth: A fax costs money though !
Kenneth: Not prepared to help ?!?!?! I am here trying to give you back £1125 !!!
Melissa: yes but we need the documents to prove this
Melissa: we are grateful of you bringin this to our attention
Melissa: and for now ill pass this on
Melissa: and then they can contact you
Kenneth: I'm going to leave this here before it degenerates. Bye.
Melissa: bye for now

brutaldeluxe, your assessment of CS was brutal, I just read the whole chat. Melissa showed patience and compassion, and you were just shoving it down her throat. She told you the bank was closed, implying financial department would look into it... her hands were tied and you beat down on her.
You know, you should be careful man, some casinos have T&C that say they can suspend your account if you are abusive towards CS staff.
And what a joke, taking screenshots takes a lot of time...? You were just frustrated to have to wait, rather than getting instant gratification.

 

[brutaldeluxe]

Please do me the favour of actually reading my posts. I have already said to 32 Red to close my account after this has been sorted so I am not particularly worried about having my account suspended considering this is what I have actually asked for. I didn't get intstant gratification ? Exactly what sort of gratification do you think I was after ? Afterall it's me trying to give money back here, not obtain it. Personally I don't find giving money away an overly gratifiying experience.

Even if that small task took you half an hour, it would still have saved you more time than the hours you have probably spent writing about it on this thread!

I may be a complete twat, totally unreasonable and completely thick but my IQ is just, I repeat just high enough in order for me to realise this.
I wanted to get my point of view across and see what others thought.
At first it seemed like one-way traffic but there have been some people that are slightly sympathetic to my stand point on this which I guess makes me feel slightly better which is probably what I was looking for. One unfortunate consequence though is the amount of abuse I am getting from people on here which consciously or unconsciously I will probably end up associating with 32 Red even though that is not necessarily their fault.
Hey I've wasted even more time replying to this thread again right but as before I wanted to get my viewpoint across.

Everyone has their own idea about what is fair and what is reasonable. In some places if you get caught stealing you get your hands chopped off. Some people say that is justice, others say it is barbaric.
Some people say I am making a big deal over nothing, others say they can see my point. Whatever your opinion the end result is me leaving 32 Red and considering their business is having customers lose money in their casino( at the end of the day lets not forget that is what it is all about) and they just lost one I guess something isn't right. Although they may lose one they will probably gain 10 more customers like the people in this thread who have admired their patient, chivalrous behaviour in dealing with customers like me so hey.

 

[henryVIII]

brutalogic ... dont beat yourself up, the forum can be a bit of an affiliate zone sometimes. 32Red would be better off doing their own PR as, like you say, the stuff in this thread really doesnt reflect well on them in the slightest.

I am sure if these very same people bought a CD over the internet, got overpaid a refund and were asked to spend their own time and money and to divulge very vulnerable personal data to do that company's accounting work for them they would not be so fast to "totally understand" to the point of actually seeing it as a great thing.

Just tell this story to fifty people you know or even at random in a pub or on the street and I would be amazed if even one person would start having a dig at you like this.

And thats a fact.

Its too funny thats its so over the top.

 

[uungy]

personally, the only reason why it would be fair to call yourself a twat, is your determination to give them the money back

Kepp the money, close your account, and buy yourself a nice late christmas present

I understannd all the views that you gotto understand them ec... but, hey, if thats how they respond, thy could have easily said (as I said earlier) will call you back when the financial team are back in, thats in order, but to play aroundm and ask for silly documents, thats mad!

I would just accept, they are giving you a gift, they don;t want "your" money back, their support, represents the casino itself!

Go on, I'll take 50% to make you feel only half bad

 

[henryVIII]

personally, the only reason why it would be fair to call yourself a twat, is your determination to give them the money back

Kepp the money, close your account, and buy yourself a nice late christmas present

I understannd all the views that you gotto understand them ec... but, hey, if thats how they respond, thy could have easily said (as I said earlier) will call you back when the financial team are back in, thats in order, but to play aroundm and ask for silly documents, thats mad!

I would just accept, they are giving you a gift, they don;t want "your" money back, their support, represents the casino itself!

Go on, I'll take 50% to make you feel only half bad

Better still, ask 32Red to fax you a copy of their bank statements so that you can verify it was in fact them who paid it to you.

Together with a recent utility bill of course.

You just have to laugh sometimes.

 

[Macgyver]

I have a feeling with all this brouhaha going on about this that Ed or Pat simply say,

"Hey, mate, we appreciate your honesty. Just go ahead and keep the double payment as a gesture of goodwill on behalf of 32Red. We apologize for the mishap and hope that you'll reconsider your decision to close your account. If not, we wish you the best of luck in the New Year and in all your gambling endeavors!"

Feel free to cut and paste, Ed.

P.S. It's about the only contribution I can make to the upstanding outfit of 32Red thanks to the U.S. Government.

P.S.S. Uh oh ... I complimented a casino! Must mean I'm an affiliate ...

 

[johnsteed]

***


Macgyver

"Hey, mate, we appreciate your honesty. Just go ahead and keep the double payment as a gesture of goodwill on behalf of 32Red. We apologize for the mishap and hope that you'll reconsider your decision to close your account. If not, we wish you the best of luck in the New Year and in all your gambling endeavors!"

Spot on!


I've read the chat, and have gone through this thread a number of times. I would initially have to say that "brutaldeluxe" was wasting his time posting this thread (more so responding), because in the grand scheme of things, it's really not a big deal. The time it would have taken to have the proper documents in order, would have been a fraction of what's been spent in this thread. Pat Harrison and Ed Ware are on top of things, and I would also concur that they would do something wonderful to compensate the player, and do something to show their appreciation. That's something that the C/S in question could not do on the spot.


On the other-hand, I think "brutaldeluxe" had in fact done the right thing (I think everyone has pretty much agreed on this point). Maybe I'm not seeing things as they really are, but from the responses in this thread, I'm reading that he was difficult on the C/S rep. I suppose, but from the way I'm reading it, I don't really think he was unbearable. An angel? Certainly not! But unbearable? Not exactly. I can see where (and probably why) he went sour within the chat, and I'll touch on that soon enough...


I would also concur with the sentiment that "Melissa" probably couldn't do much with the situation presented to her, so she certainly didn't do anything wrong either. She did her job... period. 32red deserve the accolades, as they've worked very hard (and wisely) to build-up arguably the greatest reputation in the online gaming industry. I've also dealt with "Melissa" a few times, no problems. She's solid and efficient at her job. But what's with all of this saccharine nonsense, casting her in this higher-than-thou light? I'm not even sure she would think of herself as she's being viewed. There was already some "Mrs. Butterworth's" dumped on the C/S, we don't need to overdue it with some more "Aunt Jemima" syrup.


Personally, I think this whole thread would never even have come to fruition had both the C/S (firstly) and the player (over-the-top secondly mixed-in with "?" marks for full-effect) not over-used their exclamation marks at the wrong time. Subtle things, but I think it set the wrong tone - and escalated from that point on - from what had started out as a pretty mundane chat session.


Regardless, a somewhat entertaining thread.


Steed

***

 

[brutaldeluxe]

Some people might say I was impatient or difficult towards the CS rep. You may be able to argue a case for that. Others might say I was being perfectly reasonable, when you consider the circumstances I don't think I was being completely unreasonable. But at no point was I ever insulting or abusive. At no point did I insult the CS rep, start swearing, raise my voice( erm I guess that means typing in bold haha) or the like.
Hey I mean do you think I set out with the intention to insult/abuse/annoy the rep ?!?!? I mean hardly ! In fact if you notice at the end I was seriously annoyed at this point and simply left before my anger got the better of me and would have caused me to start typing in a load of trash talk or something.


Whatever happens at least the thread may have entertained a few people haha, that's certainly no bad thing.

 

[tim5ny]

I have a feeling with all this brouhaha going on about this that Ed or Pat simply say,

"Hey, mate, we appreciate your honesty. Just go ahead and keep the double payment as a gesture of goodwill on behalf of 32Red. We apologize for the mishap and hope that you'll reconsider your decision to close your account. If not, we wish you the best of luck in the New Year and in all your gambling endeavors!"

Feel free to cut and paste, Ed.

P.S. It's about the only contribution I can make to the upstanding outfit of 32Red thanks to the U.S. Government.

P.S.S. Uh oh ... I complimented a casino! Must mean I'm an affiliate ...

Why would they be happy to give this player double payment under these circumstances? Look at the thread he started.

 

[henryVIII]

Why would they be happy to give this player double payment under these circumstances? Look at the thread he started.

Too right.

Who does he think he is? Giving money back to someone and being so "unwilling to help".

32Red are lovely.

 

[Slotster!]

Firstly - it's refreshing to see some honesty, particularly in the sometimes murky and dishonest world of online gambling. Lovely to hear Brutal!

Secondly - Due to fraud, payment processing issues and god knows what else - a specific procedure has to be followed in all circumstances. I know nothing about the workings of an online casino, but I do know about electronic payments and refunds. There was (and is I guess) a fairly popular scam which involved paying money into an account (or giving money back) - in order to obtain details to take a whole load more money out again at a later date. That clearly is not what is happening in this case, however the "we'll check it out and get back to you, anything you can do to verify" stance is entirely understandable.

The thing with 32RED is that 99.9999999999% of the time they are absolutely faultless in every regard, so the slightest hiccup and it gets magnified out of all proportion. I totally understand Brutal being a bit miffed as he was genuinely trying to do the right thing, but it seems the CS Rep was too...

Brutal - keep up the honesty - it's refreshing to hear... The fact that the CEO of the business has already been in touch says more than anyone else ever could about 32RED and their feelings towards keeping good customers!

Hope it all gets sorted for you! I've played at a lot of places believe me, and I promise you won't find anywhere that comes close...


And P.S - 32RED, anytime you feel like paying me twice - that's absolutely fine too

 

[henryVIII]

Firstly - it's refreshing to see some honesty, particularly in the sometimes murky and dishonest world of online gambling. Lovely to hear Brutal!

Secondly - Due to fraud, payment processing issues and god knows what else - a specific procedure has to be followed in all circumstances. I know nothing about the workings of an online casino, but I do know about electronic payments and refunds. There was (and is I guess) a fairly popular scam which involved paying money into an account (or giving money back) - in order to obtain details to take a whole load more money out again at a later date. That clearly is not what is happening in this case, however the "we'll check it out and get back to you, anything you can do to verify" stance is entirely understandable.

The thing with 32RED is that 99.9999999999% of the time they are absolutely faultless in every regard, so the slightest hiccup and it gets magnified out of all proportion. I totally understand Brutal being a bit miffed as he was genuinely trying to do the right thing, but it seems the CS Rep was too...

Brutal - keep up the honesty - it's refreshing to hear... The fact that the CEO of the business has already been in touch says more than anyone else ever could about 32RED and their feelings towards keeping good customers!

Hope it all gets sorted for you! I've played at a lot of places believe me, and I promise you won't find anywhere that comes close...


And P.S - 32RED, anytime you feel like paying me twice - that's absolutely fine too

Spot on !!

What was the guy thinking?

Like he could just phone up and tell them they had paid him too much.

Its about time people respected casinos a little bit more.

32red are the greatest folks.

I myself always refuse any winnings as an insignificant and small thank you for their being so lovely.

 

[henryVIII]

After his intolerant treatment of melissa, brutal_logic wasnt even satisfied to recieve even greater customer support by email and moaned on to us that .....

"this email I got "we were unable to compensate you for any facsimile costs we have provided an alternate method in the way of a screenshot" "

Unbelievable. Who is this comedian brutal_logic, doesnt he realise that ...

Get a grip on reality Mr Logic.

 

[Slotster!]

Dunno why you're so angry at 32RED HenryVIII, did you not win there or something? Don't lose your head

Ok, so there's an ever-so-slightly-less-than-perfect conversation with a live chat rep, who perhaps should've been more grateful - but hardly the biggest crime of the century. As soon as this is posted, the CEO of the business gets in touch to say he'll sort something out - that, as I explained, shows that management care... I mean, jeez, take a look through the complaints threads or the rogue casinos. People don't get paid, they get accounts closed, they get jerked around for months - and you're pissed because a live chat operator didn't seem as grateful or friendly as they should be, and then the CEO of the business gets in touch to apologise shortly afterwards. Add into this a faultless experience previously from Brutal in terms of depositing and cashing in - and storm in a teacup sounds more and more appropriate...

 

[Pinababy69]

Well, just now caught up with this.....absolutely fucking unbelievable. Henry, what is your problem? Brutaldeluxe has at least maintained some sense throughout his postings. The more I read this board, it's no wonder I post less and less.

Brutal, I never called you a derogatory name, which in my opinion is uncalled for. My only thought was that this thread was totally unneccessary, as are about 50% of the complaints I read here. Most could either have been avoided with a little common sense, or a simple PM to the casino rep here....or they are just ridiculous and not a complaint at all. I commended the OP for being honest, and I don't see anything wrong with that chat on the part of Melissa except maybe some inexperience. A simple PM to Ed or Pat could have cleared this all up in no time, and would have taken less time and effort than what it took to start this thread.

It simply amazes me that people who have interacted very little or not at all on this forum can always find and figure out how to post a complaint, but they can't be bothered to look through the forum leaders/member casinos list to find a PM contact. Of course, that's not as much fun is it?

FYI Henry, I'm not an affiliate of any casino and haven't been for a long time. What I am is sick and tired of people using a resource like this forum for their own personal smear campaigns, not that this is necessarily the case here. I can understand Brutal's frustration, just think it could have been handled very differently.

I think we should all vote on "most useless and stupid thread of 2006". We've got the King Neptune's thread from months ago, the latest Palace Group thread which could have been avoided if the OP had signed up in the currency of the country in which they live....or how about the most recent one I just read where the poster is trying to claim a bonus from 2003 from Main Street Vegas group? I'm not an affiliate for any of those casinos, nor do I play at any of them...but they are all reputable and don't deserve what I've read on here.

Does anyone besides me find it amazing that so many of the "regulars" here have never posted so much as one single complaint? KasinoKing, Macgyver, Slotster, Winbig, Grandmaster, tennis_balls, myself....the list goes on. Either we are a whole lot smarter than everyone else (which I doubt).....or maybe we just all follow the rules (with the correct interpretations) and if we do have any minor problems, we use the PROPER avenues to resolve them.

 

[Simmo!]

Brutaldeluxe has at least maintained some sense throughout his postings.

I was thinking that too. But any 32Red thread is going to attract a number of posters and debate from both sides. These threads are totally predictable now - even this thread which threatened to bring a new dimension and potential issue to light has gone back down the same old same old. Complaint comes in, couple of people assure them the casino's rep is top notch, the usual detractors come in to have a poke, people start dissing them, they fight back, end of thread. *yawn* You don't actually have to read a 32Red thread - just look at the poster names and you know what's been said OK...that's slightly tongue-in-cheek, but you know what I mean.

No business will keep everyone happy all of the time. And success can bring it's own problems as this thread demonstrates admirably.


Footnote: We tabloid-reading English are well known for suddenly hating people the minute they become successful so bear that in mind. It's not our fault - we're just puppets

 

[tennis_balls]

we're just puppets

errrrr......you meant big blue muppets?

 

[Simmo!]

errrrr......you meant big blue muppets?

Nope - that's just a head shot

 

[brutaldeluxe]

Got an email from Pat Harrison operations director explaining what happened and what went wrong etc. Also in the mail it said...

This error only came to our attention following your live chat with us on the morning of Xmas Eve. I know Dale has written to the handful of players affected, apologising for the error and you should have received this either late on Xmas Eve or Xmas Day itself. Dale did outline a couple of methods as to how the money can be returned to us; please let me know if there is anything that I can do to help in this area.

Of course I have not received any communication from Dale so I guess they forgot to send that to me. Considering I appear to be the one that brought it to their attention I find that a bit well, what's the word ? Incompetent ?


Slotster - I am sure the CEO does care. Cares about getting my money. It's the same for all businesses. They want to keep their customers happy so they get repeat custom and more money from them. That's what it boils down to. Now I am sure most of the staff at 32 Red are all very nice etc and they are just working to earn a living like everyone else but to confuse this with being nice for the sake of it etc is a bit different.

Pinababy - Here is a quote from the post above yours on page 1.

Looks to me like a friendly, helpful CS Rep trying to deal with a moron.

I never implied you did call me a derogatory name, but others did.


Yeah I am quite well aware that what has happened here is nothing compared to what some of the rogue casinos get up to and it's like complaining about not having enough salt on your chips whilst others can't even get enough food to eat. But if I asked for salt on my chips and paid for salt on my chips surely I should get it and at least have the right to question it when I don't get any salt.

Yeah many threads like this could probably be avoided by a PM to a rep but I think a large reason people post threads like this is to vent anger/frustration (as well as trying to get the thing resolved). You don't get that when you just PM someone. Plus it does also let people know the kind of jiggery pokery casinos are getting up to which is no bad thing.
Now 32 Red seem to have many supporters, perhaps they are all affiliates of them I am not sure but I get the impression they have a very good reputation throughout the industry so they must be doing something right and they must have obtained that for a reason. Great, but it doesn't mean they are infallible and it doesn't mean they are beyond critcism.

 

[Pinababy69]

Great, but it doesn't mean they are infallible

You're right, they're not perfect. But they are as close as you're bound to find on the internet. JMO.

 

[Slotster!]

Good post Brutal!

As for this:

Slotster - I am sure the CEO does care. Cares about getting my money. It's the same for all businesses. They want to keep their customers happy so they get repeat custom and more money from them. That's what it boils down to. Now I am sure most of the staff at 32 Red are all very nice etc and they are just working to earn a living like everyone else but to confuse this with being nice for the sake of it etc is a bit different.

I agree entirely, and I'm glad for the sake of the business that the management are interested in making loads of money!!! There's a distinct difference between a business "wanting to keep their customers happy" and businesses that actually do however... This difference is never more evident than in the world of online casinos! Every tom dick and harry casino "about us" page tells how they value their customers and treat them with the utmost respect; Only 32RED and a handful of others actually put that into action on a daily basis.

I'm not confusing anything with "being nice for the sake of it". What I'm saying is that if I'm going to throw my hard earned at a casino, I want to be treated like a valued customer in return -- and that's what invariably happens at 32RED. Yours is a very unusual situation, culminating in a less than perfect exchange with the CSREP. My point is, it's only a casino like 32RED that would have two senior members of the board in touch with you almost instantly to sort it out.

Noone is under any illusion that it's not all about taking your money as much and as often as possible; it's exactly the same as if I decided to buy a car. Just because I buy from the friendliest, most efficient and communicative dealership - doesn't mean I think they're being nice to me for the sake of it.

32RED tick all the boxes that matter in online casinos - and then some. I hope you get this hiccup resolved to your satisfaction!