"zero bonus" phenominon....

[rowmare]

I'm interested in everyone's opinion about the following (it looks like a marketing campaign in the guise of a news release, but what it says about bonuses is what I'm interested in): (My comments in orange)


Home : Internet : Online Gaming Shakeup as more players become VIPs


Online Gaming Shakeup as more players become VIPs
Added : (Mon Jun 21 2004)

LONDON, UK, June 21, 2004 - The online gaming industry is the fastest growing industry on the Internet. Part of what fuels that growth is the fantastically generous bonus offers that online casinos offer new players. However, since the market has become more sophisticated, online casinos have had to become more stringent on their bonusing policies. Now, many bonus programs actually offer a bonus with a zero expectation once the statutory requirements are fulfilled.

To combat this Zero Bonus phenomenon, online casino XXXXXXX(www.XXXXXX.com) has begun offering what it calls the Ultimate Cash Reward Program to all its members. XXX Casino Manager Kate Berkeley explains, In the past Cash Rewards have been a bonusing structure reserved for high rollers, who have the gambling sophistication to recognize that all other forms of bonus structure zero out. But at XXXX Casino, we have decided to offer this VIP bonus structure to all our members. This is what VIP Casino is all about treating all players like VIPs. Cash Rewards allows us to do that in a very real way.

The Cash Reward program offers players a 1% reward on their accumulated net monthly winnings and 10% back on their monthly net losses. The result is a rewards program that delivers exactly what the player deserves and wants.

Online gamblers are already beginning to recognize the value of a Cash Rewards program. GamblingOnlineMagazine.coms recent survey analyzing the players preference for bonus structures revealed that 19% rank Cash Rewards as their preferred bonus structure, ranking higher than physical gifts and prizes by 3%.

Is this the start of an evolution?

For More Information:
XXXX
XXXXXXXX
casinomanager@XXXXX.com
www.XXXXXXXXX.com

(I've hidden the identity of the casino so that no one would mistake this for a shill.)

The reason I like the direction they seem to going (at least their marketing strategy is going....) is the present situation with casino bonuses. 99.9% if the time they DO zero out - they force you to keep playing past the point you would normally stop (when you're ahead!).

I no longer take any bonuses when I play. There are two main reasons:
1. I want to cash out and preserve my winnings while I'm ahead - whenever that happens - even if it's before I've played X times my deposit!
2. I want to be able to play the more strategic games (and thus increase my chances to win) as well as romp on the slots.

I've always thought the way the casinos should go is to reward regular players with more cash incentive on a as-you-play basis, with no strings attached, and cut down on the sign-up bonuses enough that they can simplify and lower the requirements.

 

[Freudian]

A system like this is much worse for the player compared to todays system. Basically all it does is make the losses slightly smaller. You can't ever use this system to win, since it only kicks in when you lose (and only have a real effect when you lose real big).

Compare that to todays bonuses. It gives the player the opportunity to win by using the casinos own money. Sure, the casinos make it somewhat hard for you to actually cash out but that is only fair. After all, they are risking their money to give you a chance to win. I like todays bonuses. It allows me to try games I wouldn't otherwise, like slots. I wouldn't play a game that has such horrible odds like slots, if every $ I lost was my own. But if 50% of every dollar lost is the casinos, I don't mind gambling on slots (and ending up poorer most of the time).

I can see why many don't like bonuses, since you have to read all the terms and it can be a problem cashing out from time to time. But with the odds so heavily stacked against the players, it can be nice to have the buffer of a bonus from time to time.

But I can see why casinos want to switch to this kind of system. It would ensure they would make more money off players. But in all honesty I don't know how attractive a casino without any signup bonuses are to gamblers. With hundreds of online casinos to choose from, they need something to attract gamers. And they all claim to have great service and fair games (despite many lacking in at least one of those categories).

Don't get me wrong. I would like to get 10% of my losses back from casinos. But if it comes at the expense of having the chance to try out the casino with a matching bonus when signing up, I'm less interested.

 

[rowmare]

Those are good points. I use bonuses to try out casinos, too. After I decide I like the casino enough to continue playing there, though, I decline them because it mangles my money management scheme. That's just my personal way of doing things.

I actually love the bonuses with no purchase requirements. It isn't enough money (usually $10 - $15 dollars) to really test the software (unless you catch a winning wave), but it's a no-risk way to check the basics out.

 

[maxfalcon]

A system like this is much worse for the player compared to todays system. Basically all it does is make the losses slightly smaller. You can't ever use this system to win, since it only kicks in when you lose (and only have a real effect when you lose real big).

Compare that to todays bonuses. It gives the player the opportunity to win by using the casinos own money. Sure, the casinos make it somewhat hard for you to actually cash out but that is only fair. After all, they are risking their money to give you a chance to win. I like todays bonuses. It allows me to try games I wouldn't otherwise, like slots. I wouldn't play a game that has such horrible odds like slots, if every $ I lost was my own. But if 50% of every dollar lost is the casinos, I don't mind gambling on slots (and ending up poorer most of the time).

I can see why many don't like bonuses, since you have to read all the terms and it can be a problem cashing out from time to time. But with the odds so heavily stacked against the players, it can be nice to have the buffer of a bonus from time to time.

But I can see why casinos want to switch to this kind of system. It would ensure they would make more money off players. But in all honesty I don't know how attractive a casino without any signup bonuses are to gamblers. With hundreds of online casinos to choose from, they need something to attract gamers. And they all claim to have great service and fair games (despite many lacking in at least one of those categories).

Don't get me wrong. I would like to get 10% of my losses back from casinos. But if it comes at the expense of having the chance to try out the casino with a matching bonus when signing up, I'm less interested.

This particular casino is running this system in addition of a matching sign-up bonus. Note that you also get 1% of your winnings back too.

 

[dickens1298]

TANSTAAFL - There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch. Just like the insurance bet in BJ, if the casino offers it, it is NOT for the player's benefit. THAT having been said...

If this is in lieu of any other customer loyalty program, then this may actually negatively impact the player. Most loyalty programs award at a rate of 0.1%, and while at first blush this may seem meager as a percent, it may be a different case in actual dollars.

The 0.1% rate (which is for BJ... and can actually be higher at some casinos) makes no differentation between wins or losses. It is applied to every dollar wagered. How often have you played for hours and have been virtually even? Under the below "VIP" promotion, you would earn nothing - whereas you would be earning points in the aforementioned loyalty program.

Think about the actual percentages too, and how little they are. If I lose $200, I'd "make" $20. If I win $200, I'd earn $2 more. True, better than nothing, but quite meager nonetheless. And I'm not crazy about having to LOSE money to actually make 10% back - this is negative expectation at its worst...

By the way, the usual verbage is included in the T&C's for this "promotion" - abuse of promotion...deemed by management.. et al. So this doesn't necessarily eliminate disputes.

The program is offered by VIP casino.. (www.vipcasino.com).

I'm interested in everyone's opinion about the following (it looks like a marketing campaign in the guise of a news release, but what it says about bonuses is what I'm interested in): (My comments in orange)


Home : Internet : Online Gaming Shakeup as more players become VIPs


Online Gaming Shakeup as more players become VIPs
Added : (Mon Jun 21 2004)

LONDON, UK, June 21, 2004 - The online gaming industry is the fastest growing industry on the Internet. Part of what fuels that growth is the fantastically generous bonus offers that online casinos offer new players. However, since the market has become more sophisticated, online casinos have had to become more stringent on their bonusing policies. Now, many bonus programs actually offer a bonus with a zero expectation once the statutory requirements are fulfilled.

To combat this Zero Bonus phenomenon, online casino XXXXXXX(www.XXXXXX.com) has begun offering what it calls the Ultimate Cash Reward Program to all its members. XXX Casino Manager Kate Berkeley explains, In the past Cash Rewards have been a bonusing structure reserved for high rollers, who have the gambling sophistication to recognize that all other forms of bonus structure zero out. But at XXXX Casino, we have decided to offer this VIP bonus structure to all our members. This is what VIP Casino is all about treating all players like VIPs. Cash Rewards allows us to do that in a very real way.

The Cash Reward program offers players a 1% reward on their accumulated net monthly winnings and 10% back on their monthly net losses. The result is a rewards program that delivers exactly what the player deserves and wants.

Online gamblers are already beginning to recognize the value of a Cash Rewards program. GamblingOnlineMagazine.coms recent survey analyzing the players preference for bonus structures revealed that 19% rank Cash Rewards as their preferred bonus structure, ranking higher than physical gifts and prizes by 3%.

Is this the start of an evolution?

For More Information:
XXXX
XXXXXXXX
casinomanager@XXXXX.com
www.XXXXXXXXX.com

(I've hidden the identity of the casino so that no one would mistake this for a shill.)

The reason I like the direction they seem to going (at least their marketing strategy is going....) is the present situation with casino bonuses. 99.9% if the time they DO zero out - they force you to keep playing past the point you would normally stop (when you're ahead!).

I no longer take any bonuses when I play. There are two main reasons:
1. I want to cash out and preserve my winnings while I'm ahead - whenever that happens - even if it's before I've played X times my deposit!
2. I want to be able to play the more strategic games (and thus increase my chances to win) as well as romp on the slots.

I've always thought the way the casinos should go is to reward regular players with more cash incentive on a as-you-play basis, with no strings attached, and cut down on the sign-up bonuses enough that they can simplify and lower the requirements.

 

[sw2003]

Compare that to todays bonuses. It gives the player the opportunity to win by using the casinos own money. Sure, the casinos make it somewhat hard for you to actually cash out but that is only fair. After all, they are risking their money to give you a chance to win.

Casinos risking their money to give us a chance to win?? This is a joke
right? Casinos risking their money so that they can win more back from
the players would be a more accurate statement.

I like todays bonuses. It allows me to try games I wouldn't otherwise, like slots. I wouldn't play a game that has such horrible odds like slots, if every $ I lost was my own. But if 50% of every dollar lost is the casinos, I don't mind gambling on slots (and ending up poorer most of the time).

I can see why many don't like bonuses, since you have to read all the terms and it can be a problem cashing out from time to time. But with the odds so heavily stacked against the players, it can be nice to have the buffer of a bonus from time to time.

Oh jeez so when did reading becoming so difficult? Is that true that all the players never attend anything remotely resembling a school? Or you want to
say that people don't like reading the T & C because they are boring. That
I would agree.

I think people don't like bonuses because they cannot withdraw whenever they want more than having to read is a requirement.

 

[dominique]

I don't use bonuses anymore either, and years ago I was a bonus hunter.

The wagering requirements have become so crazy - I just don't want to bother. Each place seems to do them differently. I want to play what I want to play, when I want to play it, for as long as I want to play it, and especially I want to cash out while the getting is good and not when they allow me to.

In other words, I want my freedom to play my way.

No bonus is worth the hastle to me. I can usually play BJ well enough to increase my bankroll to where I want to cash out my deposit and play with the winnings. That is what I like to do anymore. Then I play whatever comes to mind.

When I was bonus hunting I got really tired of the whole gambling situation - it got boring. I want to have fun, as well as win. It can be done.

 

[hhcfreebie]

This promotion is pretty much worthless.
If they can credit the bonus on a daily, or even weekly basis, it will be a lot more interesting.
Oh, and don't give me the "net lose/win" crap. Some casinos out there only credit the bonus when your "net lose" is greater than zero. Let's say you win $100 this month and lose $200 next month, you'd expect you will get $20 right? Nope, you only get $10 becuase your "net lose" is $100.